Guess what! AFSCME members did NOT endorse Dean.

[revcarol]

I have maintained relationships with AFSCME members over the years, since I am a former AFSCME member.Tonight at the county Dem Party meeting, I talked with Millie Hinojosa, local AFSCME head.And she was totally PISSED.

She informed me that NATIONAL AFSCME had told them who they were to support and that's the way it was going to be.She had previously told me that the only way the union would endorse anyone was to poll the members, one by one,because the union was very democratic, and that this would be done in February.

Guess the "endorsement" of AFSCME isn't worth the paper it's written on.

Furthermore, she was livid at the AFSCME NM flyer from Dean that stated something like "I am the only Democrat that acts like a Democrat."(Locked thread) She said that reps of all the other candidates were contacting her, totally outraged, and that she felt it would reflect badly on her union and the labor movement.

Will answer questions on this thread.

[molly]

1. Whoa!

[windansea]

2. where are you?

[Democrats unite]

3. Who is AFSCME?

Sorry I don't know.

[revcarol]

12. Association of Federal, State, County & Municipal Employees.

A union in the AFL/CIO. Government workers.

[lcordero]

14. It's a trade union for govt employees

http://www.afscme.org

[mouse7]

4. Links?

Got evidence to support your claim?

[jonnyblitz]

20. its one of those" I have a friend" anectdotal things

that doesn't prove anything but that her friend and possibly a few friends of her friend don't support Dean. Nothing scientific.

[worldgonekrazy]

32. Yeah, in science anecdotal evidence isn't worth a damn

And for good reason.

Everybody's got a friend who says/thinks something.

[lcordero]

5. It seems that the AFSCME executive board did

http://www.afscme.org/

The American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees (AFSCME), AFL-CIO, officially endorsed Howard Dean for President. The AFSCME International Executive Board voted unanimously to endorse Howard Dean based on his record, his position on the issues, the strength of his campaign and the overwhelming and enthusiastic support for his candidacy among AFSCME's membership.

[windansea]

7. yes but members vote how they want

[lcordero]

11. I thought that my post supported that

[oasis]

28. Reminiscent of Novelli screwing AARP membership on the medicare bill.

[incapsulated]

6. So what did the members do

If they weren't polled like before? Just ignored?

 

[adadem]

31. That's what I wonder

hearing same thing where I live (at the last few Dem meetings. Many of the union folks unhappy with their various union's endorsements seem to be lining up with a group called "Friends of Labor"..I heard this group mentioned several times tho I don't know much about them or if they are endorsing.

edited for spelling...need to use that new spell checker!!!

[AnAmerican]

8. Very interesting

More of the same "Let us decide who you should vote for". The only difference is, it is not the media this time.

[Cheswick2.0]

9. ROFL

come on, this happens all the time. You have one friend who does not like who the union endorsed. This is not an unknown or shocking phenomenon. No shocker here.

[John_H]

22. For better or worse, this is how unions work. AFSCME is Dean's.

[corporatewhore]

24. The point is ...

that they didnt even ask their members from what i understand!!

[mouse7]

30. I'll bet they didn't poll on sending reps to Miami for FTAA either

That's why the members of the Union elect an executive board. To handle day-to-day business.

Last time I checked, I didn't get to vote on the the Bush budget. I had an elected Conressional Representative vote against that for me.

It's called representative democracy. It's a pretty common concept.

[jumptheshadow]

37. But Dean's support comes from the ground up

Isn't that what I've heard here?

[Woodstock]

52. Dean supporters have no control over what ASFME does

I don't know why. I just woke up one day, and that's the way it was. Sorry.

[Mairead]

43. An endorsement isn't day-to-day business any more than a strike/settlement

vote is. 'Day to day business' is running the office.

[Woodstock]

51. Exactly - this is par for the course

AFSME has endorsed Dean. You can spin it however you want, but that's the truth.

In America, individual citizens - yes, even union members - can vote for whoever they please. Tell your friend to vote for her choice and chill.

[Hoppin_Mad]

10. Err . . . This is old news

And has been right on their website for weeks, if anyone wanted to look it up. What seems to be the issue ? Many unions do this.


Wednesday, November 12, 2003

AFSCME Endorses Howard Dean for President

WASHINGTON — The American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees (AFSCME), AFL-CIO, officially endorsed Howard Dean for President today.

The  AFSCME International Executive Board voted unanimously  to endorse Howard Dean based on his record, his position on the issues, the strength of his campaign and the overwhelming and enthusiastic support for his candidacy among AFSCME's membership.

We have a candidate who represents our values and who can defeat this President," AFSCME President Gerald W. McEntee said. "AFSCME is going to mobilize the largest and most aggressive grassroots campaign this nation has ever seen. Together with Governor Dean, America's working families will take back the White House in 2004."

[incapsulated]

13. No, that's not news..

The fact that the members had decided before this, is, to me.

[Cheswick2.0]

33. any proof besides gossip that the members voted on anything?

?

[revcarol]

17. What I am saying is that they did not POLL the MEMBERS,

like they said they would do.

VERY UNDEMOCRATIC.
The members, five of whom were at the meeting were understandably irate. They supported Kucinich and Kerry.

Their national leadership blew it.

[Cheswick2.0]

34. I am a union member

you just can't fly this balloon.

[REP]

35. I Am A Union Member As Well

And this "friend of a friend" story stinks to high hell.

Kucinich's campaign needs a better tactic than pointing at Dean and screeching (and using pie charts on the radio).

[revcarol]

49. AFSCME?

Did you get individually polled?

[Hep]

18. We know it doesn't mean ALL

we'll take what we can get, and we appreciate what they have offered.

Seriously, this is so screwed up. We SEE AFSCME members on the streets, knocking on doors. Their participation is not a mystery, it's not a lie. THIS IS WHAT SEPARATES US.

[iowapeacechief]

19. Heard it tonight from McEntee himself...

...but he made much of the two large conventions where members were asked "what kind" of candidate they wanted. Based on their answers, he said, the executive board voted unanimously to endorse Dean. The AFSCME president was on a speaker-phone direct to the Dean MeetUp in Muscatine, Iowa, where several of his members (in green T-shirts) were prominent.

(Yes, I am The Kucinich Guy, but I was invited and went. I am not the enemy, nor are they, I told them. Then we role-played caucusing. Great fun!)

[Gman]

15. Typical AFSCME

Because Linda said so.

Sorry...

[JNelson6563]

38. haha weren't you the one who said

these two unions are "joined at the hip"? In reality they hate each other--the leaders of these unions.

Yeah, you're really informed. Great source. Not.

Oy!

Julie

[Lobo_13]

16. And the Dean steering committee for my county

has a former president of the UAW local, a Gephardt union.

I met two other sitting UAW local presidents at a recent Dean rally who are campaigning heavily for Dean.

Mountain out of a molehille.

[corporatewhore]

25. I would think its a little bit more than a molehill

when the union didnt poll its members like it is supposed to

[IndianaGreen]

21. The same can be said about USWA's endorsement of Gephardt

I am surprised that you, as a former rank-and-file union member, did not know that the national is always doing their thing, sometimes to the detriment of the shop locals.

[eileen from OH]

23. Gee, we've had a plethora

(and yes, I've been meaning to work in the word "plethora" into my posts for quite a while) of AFSCME members at our meetup and they are going to the OH caucus as Dean delegates. Had the leader of the local last month and he spoke and seemed just fine with it.

eileen from OH

[corporatewhore]

26. I wouldnt care if they endorsed lieberman

as long as the members where polled and thats who they picked

[genius]

27. I know. I was also told it was a done deal from the top

The Pres of AFSCME wanted to endorse someone he felt was popular rather than go with someone who was good for labor.

[FrenchieCat]

29. Well

at the end, the "POWERS THAT BE" will realize that maybe their members did know better after all...cause things may not turn out the way they had envisioned it!

[Soul On Ice]

39. Now

your response makes sense.

Unfortunately, union bigwhigs (read "management") have been out of touch for a long time.

[stickdog]

41. Well, at leads they knew better than to even consider Clark. (nt)

[KittyWampus]

54. Clark Was Their First Choice... But Since He Passed On Iowa

they had to settle for Dean.

[Printer70]

36. Not News

All endorsements work this way.

[Soul On Ice]

40. Understood.

Somehow, I am still expecting more from unions; but I guess I'm living in the past again!

[bitchkitty]

42. Let's see, one woman out

of 1.4 million members doesn't like Dean. Oh, yea, that's proof.

You guys make me sick.

[in_cog_ni_to]

44. But,

can't the members vote how THEY want to vote? They don't HAVE to do what they're told by the higher ups, right? That would piss me off! I would vote AGAINST whoever I was "ORDERED" to vote for. I'm like that....a rebel! :7

Go Wes!

[LWolf]

45. Interesting.

And typical responses. :eyes:

What is interesting to me is the idea that unions would poll members before endorsing.

It's surely the ethical thing to do; find out what your members really want before you, as their representatives, endorse anything or anybody...but does it really happen?

I've only belonged to two unions; CSEA and CFT (California Federation of Teachers). In 22 years, I've never been polled. This year, CFT endorsed HD. In a district with 20,000 + students, 20 something schools, and about 1,000 CFT members, I couldn't find a single one that wasn't surprised by the endorsement. Our local reps knew nothing about it until after the fact.

That's not to say that some won't support Dean; the rest of us will support the candidate we like better. When your association doesn't ask you before they issue endorsements, the endorsement isn't likely to affect your vote.

I guess the endorsements serve PR purposes; they make a candidate look like he's got more support than he does, which can sway people who don't take a close look at their choices and make an independent decision.

Since they are announced publicly and used to campaign, I'd sure like those endorsements to reflect the actual union members' support.

[KaraokeKarlton]

46. So one local leader tastes sour grapes

That doesn't mean the entire Union agrees with her.

:eyes:

[LWolf]

47. It doesn't mean the entire union

supports Dean, either. :eyes:

[Forkboy]

48. That;s true

but taking the second hand word of ONE person is pretty weak.

[KittyWampus]

55. Well, That Second Hand Opinion Ending Up Being Correct, Apparently

Union members were not polled and some are angry.

Then there's the issue that Union polls probably are NEVER polled...

Still, initial poster and the account they gave is valid.

[9119495]

50. This is how its done--a bit late to complain

This happened in 2000 with just about every union endorsing Gore before Bradley even had a chance to talk with them. So it goes with Unions that national leadership is often very different from the grass roots--but hey look at our party right now.

Do you really think members follow their unions lock-step? Do you think Gephardt really has the support of all his unions? Do you think my firefighting friend who supports Dean is forced to vote for Kerry?

[AP]

60. it's good for $$ and phone banks.

[bitchkitty]

53. This is total b.s.

and I think you know it. I googled AFSCME and found this:

http://www.afscmeiowa.org/

Almost 200 AFSCME members, staff and other supporters braved sub-zero temperatures and a blizzard to rally for former Vermont Governor Howard Dean Jan. 4 at the first televised presidential debate of the new year.

Dean supporters won the Des Moines Register’s prize for largest sign, with three 50-foot signs hung from cherry pickers outside the Iowa Public Television studios in Johnson, where the debate was held. The Register sponsored the debate.

AFSCME supporters gathered first at Flanagan’s Restaurant in Des Moines to fill up on hot coffee and layer “AFSCME for Dean” T-shirts over their parkas before loading the bus to the debate. A crowd assembled at the studios cheered as AFSCME Dean supporters exited their bus.

Those poor people! Forced to stand out in the cold and support Dean, when they really wanted to support Clark.

[Lobo_13]

56. I think you've got your unions confused

I remember when this came down, there was an article in the paper about the SEIU and AFSCME joint endorsements.

SEIU is the union that is heavily influenced by the locals and rank and file. Dean worked his ass off, meeting with the influential locals.

AFSCME is one of the old style top-down unions. Dean met with the top people and they liked him. Why? Because they were looking for a winner first and foremost.

Clark was not their first choice, They were willing to meet with him, but their prime criteria was the ability to beat Bush. When Clark pulled out of IA, they decided he was not the guy to beat Bush. They went with the guy who could.

So, your whole premise is basically untrue. Gerald McEntee does what Gerald McEntee wants to do, and that's just the way it is.

[mopinko]

57. is it the normal practice to poll the members?

have they ever done it before? or is there jsut a rumor that they were gonna, or what? i don't think this is howard dean's fault.

[Lobo_13]

58. AFSCME is not a bottom - up organization.

They do not make it a practice to get the opinion of the rank and file when they want to make a move.

SEIU is the bottom-up organization that Dean worked his ass off to get.

[lurk_no_more]

59. This does not surprise me

At the Florida Convention, I talked to about 10 AFSME members standing outside wearing AFSME/dean shirts, it was right after Clark spoke and dean was speaking, I asked jokingly why they weren't inside listening to dean, they said they didn't care for dean but the union did. I asked why they were there if they didn't support dean, they said, being union members they were told by their union reps. that unless they were working, that had to be on the union bus for the convention rally and to wear their AFSME/dean shirts.

I laughed and said to check out Clark, they all laughed in unison and said they already had which is why they all came outside after Clark was done speaking, before dean took the stage.

My wife and I laughed about it all the way home.


And then there were none!
” JAFO”