Internet claim on Bush award disputed (Walt Starr story)

[Snivi Yllom]

Drudge is doing the dirty work for * again....Media Whores are getting black and blue bruises on their knees from repeated servicing of their masters.

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20040913-122231-6905r

By Gene J. Koprowski
United Press International

Published 9/13/2004 3:33 PM

CHICAGO, Sept. 13 (UPI) -- The Air Force has knocked down allegations by a Web site that said President Bush, when serving as an officer in the Texas Air National Guard, wore a ribbon he was not authorized to wear -- a military offense that could have led to a bad-conduct discharge from the service if true.

The original story was offered to United Press International during late August by operatives from Democrats.com, an Internet activist group whose founder had earlier this year served as a source for The Boston Globe and other media outlets on stories about Bush's service in the guard in the 1960s and 1970s.

A summary of the story was also posted on the DemocraticUnderground.com Web site by Walt Starr of Democrats.com last month, along with a photo from the George H.W. Bush Presidential Library of Lt. George W. Bush wearing the Air Force Outstanding Unit Award.

An e-mail message to UPI on Aug. 27 from Bob Fertik, founder of Democrats.com, stated, "Walt Starr called the Air Force and discovered that the only AFOUA given to Bush's unit was in 1975 -- five years after the photo. Case closed!"

[NewYorkerfromMass]

1. But if Bush only wore it illicitly for this photo

and nobody else ever knew, then this is a bullshit arguement.

[henslee]

5. Wa-aaalt, oh, Wa--aaalt. Pick up the bat phone.

[Catfight]

2. So cool, DU was mentioned. Hey, did anyone notice ever since

The West Wing mentioned Matt Drudge the ratings plummeted? LOL The curse of the Drudge.

[Wickerman]

3. oh. Nice reporting

:eyes:


--snip--
The news of the Air Force and White House disproving the allegations about the Bush medal came Friday, as CBS News and other news organizations were reeling from the disclosure that they had published or aired possibly forged documents about Bush's military service record.

The source of the CBS story has not been disclosed, but CBS is conducting an internal investigation into the controversy.

No mention that those charges are false and all responsible media has given it up.

[papau]

30. "disputed" - indeed disproved per UPI because we found a History Document?

So Personal File shows nothing - but the History file shows that 3724 got a ribbon during the time Bush was in basic training - so he gets to wear it once he has his wings. Interesting - is the fellow that we have such a problem with "lost" and then "found" documents? Does anyone believe the dates assigned in Bushes file to "Basic Traing" ??

LOL - :-)

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20040913-122231-6905r

Internet claim on Bush award disputed
"The Air Force and the White House last week in interviews with UPI said the allegations were misleading. White House spokesman Trent Duffy referred UPI to the Air Reserve Personnel Center in Colorado where Technical Sgt. Rob Mims is the spokesman.

Mims said the claims were "not true. I verified that (Thursday). Lieutenant Bush received Air Force Outstanding Unit Award while he was in basic training with the 3724th Basic Military Training Squadron at Lackland Air Force Base, Texas."

<snip>Mims said that personnel records in the military are often incomplete due to "clerical errors." "But I did verify that that unit did get the award while he (Bush) was there," said Mims. The sergeant added that the photo in question was "taken after pilot training." Mims said he confirmed his information about the medal with the Air Force's history office. "It's all there in black and white, we've spelled it out," said Mims.<snip>"

[Wickerman]

32. Funny how few documents are available in that man's life

What are around are confusing. Seems he later in life had trouble with SEC documents, then even later he had trouble with documents about yellow cake. Too many troubles with that guy - bad luck seems to follow him - chaos abounds - seems like he is nothing but trouble.

:7

[Beetwasher]

4. Medal Issue Aside, WTF Is Up W/ This Bullshit???

"The source of the CBS story has not been disclosed, but CBS is conducting an internal investigation into the controversy."

CBS has categorically denied any internal investigation. This is a complete and total lie.

[blm]

13. UPI is owned by RevMoon. They are MOONIES. Why act like they are legit?

UPI is fullblown Moonie propaganda arm of the BFEE. Bushes and Moon go back over 40 years.

[sonicx]

6. isn't this the company that...

owns Washington Times? :eyes:

[colonel odis]

9. i believe it is, indeed.

[yardwork]

7. "Operatives from Democrats.com????"

LOL!!!

And here I thought it was little ol' private citizen Walt Starr. I didn't know it was "operatives!"

[hlthe2b]

8. I can't get your link to load... What did the AF supposedly say that

"knocked down the story?"

[Snivi Yllom]

12. heavy traffic is slowing UPI down

Drudge singlehandedly crashes servers all the time just by linking to sites.

[MallRat]

10. WTF were they thinking in giving this story to a Moon-owned syndicate?!?!

UPI is owned by Rev. Sun Myung Moon, who also owns the rabidly right-wing Washington Times.

What the fuck happened? How did this story end up in the hands of a right-wing media machine?

(That said, I can't access the website to read the whole story yet. UPI may have crashed?)

-MR

[girl gone mad]

42. Our problem is thinking the media..

is our friend.

[bobbyboucher]

11. Sounds like more pre-emptive lying by Roverer.

They got so many lies out there they don't have the faintest idea what the truth is. It's is going to implode. I can feel it.

[John_H]

55. that's exactly what it is.

[hlthe2b]

14. What did the Air Force do to supposedly knock down the allegations?

I can't read the article. How was the story discounted?

[Walt Starr]

15. That's the biggest load of horseshit ever!

Here's the claim:

Mims said the claims were "not true. I verified that (Thursday). Lieutenant Bush received Air Force Outstanding Unit Award while he was in basic training with the 3724th Basic Military Training Squadron at Lackland Air Force Base, Texas."


Trainees NEVER get the award, EVER! IF the award was earned by theat unit, the trainers would get it, not the trainees!

[hlthe2b]

17. So, is that it? No way to disprove the training claim?

Why didn't it appear on his OERS?

[Walt Starr]

24. I'm still confimring he was in the unit when it earned the award

We'll see if even that is true.

[MallRat]

34. Walt, when did the 111th FIS earn their AFOUAs?

Someplaces I see 1975, others I see 1966 and 1975.

Either way, it seems to me that Bush was either too late (1966) or too early (1975) to have worn this ribbon in the photo.

(EDIT) Oh, wait... is Sims claiming that it's the 3724th Training Squadron who earned the AFOUA that trainee Bush is wearing??? Sketchy.

You should definitely ask this Tech. Sgt. Rob Sims where he's getting his information from.

-MR

[Walt Starr]

36. 01FEB65-31MAR66 and 01OCT73-30SEP75

They again received the award in the 80's.

[Catch22Dem]

21. I can verify that

My Basic Training unit receieved an Outstanding Unit citation, but I got no part of it. My Technical School unit also received one while I was in that unit, and I did not receive that award either. Now, I received several from various other units once I had completed training and was active duty at permanant duty stations and various temporary duty stations.

[gasperc]

40. they responded-you got their attention stick to your guns

great job Walt, the Bushies cry over the littlest scratch. Your story is yet another example that this goes further and deeper, it helps paint the far bigger picture that Bush's TANG history is over-rated, embellished and in many ways out and out fraudulent.

[henslee]

16. Energy Rove expends dispelling medals story sucks resources from other

from places.

[MallRat]

18. Still can't access story. Does anyone have an alternate link? n/t

[henslee]

19. its a slowloader 4 me to but it came up.

[AlCzervik]

20. I just noticed your your name is molly ivins backwards.

I love Molly.

[Snivi Yllom]

22. you are the first ever to notice

DING DING DING!

However, I am not Oprah and can not offer you a free car.

[AlCzervik]

25. Damn you!!!!! If i'm the only one that noticed than i must

be ass backwards. I think your name is pretty neat.

[Walt Starr]

26. I've noticed it

I just never said anything about it.

:evilgrin:

[John_H]

53. You know, the real Molly wouldn't be a bad person to contact about this

We now have the White House and an Air Force spokesperson LYING about this on record, which is a story in and of itself.

The WH and the AF Reserve say that Bush deserved the award because of his time as a trainee. They've locked themselves into an excuse. Their excuse has been proved false by the Air Force. As of this moment, this story is set in stone, and it's simple enough for even stretch and panchito to understand.

Everyone should be going with this.

[Carni]

23. Someone should demand copies of what "Mims" references

If I am reading this right...this Mims individual cliams that bush was not rightfully credited with the medal on his paperwork because of a clerical error (yeah right)

But he has some other document that proves bush was awarded the medal?

So if that is the case Where TF is the document?
Which document shows it? (Let's see it in other words!)

What a bunch of Rev moon shit as per usual.

[TrueAmerican]

27. What is funny about all this is:

That it has been claimed that all Bush's records have been released, but someone is putting out more records to try and disprove allegations.

As for Trainees receiving an Outstanding Unit Award, that is a new one on me.

[AmerDem]

28. How about contacting this Technical Sgt. Rob Mims

and raise any questions about the award and ask for copies of the award, where,when and how. Others had to be part of it, Maybe there is a work around that way.

[Carni]

35. BINGO!

That is exactly what I would do!

[KoKo]

29. I think the word "disputed" says it all. It's not "False" but disputed...

so I think Walt's findings rattled them.

[Walt Starr]

38. And the "dispute" has been resolved by the Air Force Personnel Center

See post 37.

[MallRat]

31. Clerical errors?

Mims said that personnel records in the military are often incomplete due to "clerical errors."

"But I did verify that that unit did get the award while he (Bush) was there," said Mims.

The sergeant added that the photo in question was "taken after pilot training."

Mims said he confirmed his information about the medal with the Air Force's history office. "It's all there in black and white, we've spelled it out," said Mims.

The White House, through Duffy, said: "Lieutenant Bush at the time was completely authorized to wear those ribbons he has in those pictures. He could only wear those ribbons if he has the wings. He earned his wings in 1969."


OK, Tech. Sgt. Mims. A few questions:

If Bush's NGB22 is incomplete and don't show that he earned this award, then on what documentation are you basing your conclusions?

If Bush's service records are in error, then why does the military biography written by the White House itself contain no mention of the AFOUA, yet does list other awards, such as Small Arms Expert Marksmanship Ribbon? Did the White House biography happen to make the same error that the National Guard did?

When did the 111th FIS receive the AFOUA in question, and how did you find this information when Walt Starr couldn't get it from AFHSO itself? What is your source for this information?

Are trainees awarded the AFOUA?

-MR

[merh]

33. Good questions - Mims must be using some new docs that were

never released before. Maybe he made the forgeries on his computer using microsoft word - he learned how to do it at FR! <dripping with sarcasm and contempt>

[Walt Starr]

37. According to the Air Force, UPI is full of shit

From: "AFPC/DPSTC Call Center" <[e-mail]> Add to Address Book
To: "'[e-mail]'" <[e-mail]>
Subject: AFPC Contact Center Ticket # 040913-000049 (CIVILIAN CALL CENTER ISSUES) has been closed
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 01:20:16 -0500


Walter Starr, below is your initial request, and resolution. If the resolution is not sufficient please e-mail us at mailto:[e-mail] or the POC below. Include your ticket number. You can also submit an update to your original request by logging into https://webcolab.afpc.randolph.af.mil/Scripts/rightnowdb.cfg/php.exe/enduser/home.php

Problem : Do trainees in Basic Training Squadrons receive the AFOUA if the Squadron receives the award?
Problem Details : If a person is a trainee in a Basic Military Training Squadron for six weeks, and that six weeks is covered in an award of the Air Force Outstanding Unit Award to that squadron, does the basic trainee also qualify to wear the award?

Resolution : Sir, they do not qualify for the wear of that award, it is for the permanent party members who are there for the time of the Award.

Resolution Details :
Contact Center Agent: : Mr George Henigman
Agents Email Address: : [e-mail]
Agents Phone Number: : Toll Free 1-800-616-3775; or DSN 665-5000

[EndElectoral]

39. Have you forwarded to UPI for a retraction?

[Walt Starr]

44. Yep, sure have

Trainees are not permanent parties, ergo, trainees do not get unit awards when training squadrons receive them.

The White House is blowing steam out its ass.

[Walt Starr]

49. I've asked if they'll print a retraction

doubt it though. The Moonie Times is all about covering for the misadministration.

[Robb]

43. Hee hee hee...

Well, that's that. :)

Nice going! :thumbsup:

[Philostopher]

45. That one didn't make sense on its face.

The military is big on praising unity of teams, always has been; however, when you're in basic training it's you against the trainers. The very attitude of basic training would have argued against they giving unit awards to guys who pretty much do a 'pass/fail' trip through basic. Unless they saved a drowning girl from a lake, I can't imagine anything 'outstanding' they might do during basic except maybe as individuals.

As bogus an argument as they're offering on this one, it really makes you wonder about a lot of other 'Bush Administration Debunkings' (read 'damage control spews') and what they're worth, doesn't it? Pretty sad that even the Moonie Times would go to bad for that crew on something so easy to disprove.

[Walt Starr]

46. I know that, you know that

But the White House is grasping at straws on this one.

[Philostopher]

50. Well, considering the preponderance of chickenhawks among 'em

I suppose it's not much of a surprise they don't have any idea what they're talking about when it comes to military basic training!

[Leilani]

41. Congrats Walt Starr!!

You have them on the defense!!!

I nominate you for Head of Kerry Media Strategy!!!!

You are obviously more effective than many of those receiving paychecks from the Kerry Campaign!

[Walt Starr]

47. Nah, I'm just a guy who wanted to compare Kerry's awards to Bush's

and noticed the lack of documentation of Bush's awards.

[Spazito]

48. This is great!

Walt's work has made them feel they have to respond which tells me Walt is definitely onto something. To respond in such a weak way that can be disproved so easily says they are having trouble refuting Walt's evidence. GO Walt!!

[John_H]

51. "But I did verify that that unit did get the award while he was there"

Note they very careful phrasing.

He does not say Bush was authorized to wear the ribbon, only that the unit recieved it while bush was in training there. They're counting on the fact people don't know that trainees don't get the ribbon, the trainers do.

His only other qote is to try to explain the lack of records for the award by saying its a clerical error.

It's the Moonie reporter makes the conclusion that Bush was authorized to wear the ribbon, not the Air Force. I wonder how many people at the AF, UPI had to talk to before they got hold of a freeper who would spin for them.

Whoever sent this to UPI, trying to get this to Helen I suppose, was not the sharpest tool in the shed.

[Walt Starr]

52. And the Air Force debunked it immediately

I've requested a retraction, but don't expect to get one unless Hell freezes over.

Or maybe they'll print it on November 3.

[John_H]

54. Walt, the story is now that the White House and AF Reserve LIED

they've locked themselves into an excuse, eliminating all the other excuses raised by the GOP operatives who posted on the original thread.

You've just proved that excuse wrong. THIS STORY IS A LOCK.

Get to work.