William Kristol finally gets one right

[NWHarkness]

"And having Warren there will, in fact, be a welcome reminder of the strides the evangelical movement and religious conservatives (broadly speaking) have made in recent decades."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/29/opinion/29kristol.html

[opihimoimoi]

1. Billy is an asshole of mega proportions...fuck him.....he is not to be trusted...

[Captain Hilts]

7. Look, just because he's been lobbying the US Govt. to invade Iraq since '98...nt

[GarbagemanLB]

2. Oh boy. Get the popcorn ready.

[grantcart]

8. gonna need the boyscouts

[MannyGoldstein]

3. Does Kristol Know That Warren Says He's Going To Hell?

That underlying sentiment worked out well for the Jews 80 years ago...

"History never repeats... but it rhymes" - Mark Twain

[Sebastian Doyle]

12. Oh there's no doubt Bill Kristol is going to Hell

And not because of anything Prick Warren said either.

[NJmaverick]

4. You think he got it right?!?!?

"...we conservatives have already gotten more than enough pleasure from the hysterical reaction to his selection by the tribunes of the intolerant left."

[NWHarkness]

5. I quoted what I thought he'd gotten right

That's what these things are for --> ""

The right doesn't see the Warren invocation as a sign of good will, they see it as a surrender.

[NJmaverick]

11. Now that you covered the quotation mark, you can start learning about context

like the context of yanking the chain of those he consider to be hysterical. There is a reason that sentence proceeded the one you latched on to.

[NWHarkness]

14. So, you think the statement is wrong?

Simple question, yes or no?

[NJmaverick]

18. sorry the world is not black/white or yes/no

if you want a simplistic view, you will have to look else where.

[NWHarkness]

21. I didn't expect an answer, thanks anyway. n/t

[NJmaverick]

24. Good, because I don't play the George Bush

"either you are with us or against us" game.

[NWHarkness]

27. I didn't ask you to.

You said the statement was out of context, I asked you if the statement itself was true or false, in your opinion.

You made it clear that your purpose here was not to offer your own opinion, but to sneer at those of others.

[NJmaverick]

31. ahh context can not be discussed in "yes or no" or "true or false" terms

You need to understand that, before we can have a reasoned discussion.

[NWHarkness]

34. Reasoned discussion?

I'd be happy to have a reasoned discussion with you. If you could drop your patronizing attitude long enough to answer, please explain to us why you disbelieve the notion that the right sees the choice of Warren as an acknowledgement of their success, if that is in fact, your opinion.

[NJmaverick]

36. Kristol just gets finished telling everyone how he is enjoying the hysteria of the left

then he writes something he is sure will cause more of that entertaining hysteria and you swallow his bait hook line and sinker. Sorry but what you call "patronizing" is more like disappointment that you let yourself be so easily manipulated.

[NWHarkness]

37. I'm so sorry that I disappointed you

I hope it won't be a black mark on my permanent record.

[Balderdash]

15. Maybe you should read the whole article.

And talk about "finger wagging." Clearly the OP doesn't
agree with with Kristal, they are pointing our the Kristal
sees the Warren pick as somewhat of a coup for conservatives.
But I guess YMMV.

[NJmaverick]

20. I DID bother to read the entire article. It's one of the things that sets me apart

from so many DUers. I don't just jump to conclusions with out learning all the facts.

In this case it's not hard to see that what he stated, was not a firmly held belief, as much as a willfully stirring up people he has no respect for. In internet terms, it was deliberate flamebait.

[Uzybone]

26. Exactly

in the previous sentence he calls the some on the left "intolerant". Then follows it up by saying this shows the right is making advances. And as planned some people eat it all up like fools.

[NWHarkness]

32. I hope you aren't calling me a sock puppet

Because I'll put my credentials as a Democrat up against anyone here.

[NJmaverick]

33. Nope, I wasn't calling you a sock puppet

[Mz Pip]

44. Doesn't matter what they think

it means. Obama is still the president and he will be calling the shots once he's in office. This 'outreach' move by Obama makes it all the easier for Obama to cut them little slack when they refuse to compromise later on.


Now it's the rights turn to compromise. If they don't, screw 'em.

[Cha]

48. Who gives a fuck what bill kristol

thinks?

[Number23]

47. Exactly right! THAT'S the sentence the OP decides to leave out??

The one that QUALIFIES the sentence that follows, which happens to be the one that he highlighted?? Good grief...

[Captain Hilts]

6. As a young man, Warren legitimizes hate mongering for the younger generation...

and Obama is giving him a great stage from which to do it.

[LynneSin]

9. Except that most fundie, evangelical preachers don't like Warren

go figure

[NWHarkness]

16. I think that's professional jealousy

Not theological.

It seems like they are always trying to pull down whoever they see as the big cheese at the time.

[LynneSin]

29. that is true

go figure

[NWHarkness]

35. Collection plate envy n/t

[Uzybone]

10. How can anyone agree that he got that right?

Where are all the evangelicals in the WH? Which evangelicals will be making policy or picking SC justices. This is daft. Kristol is consistently wrong.

[opihimoimoi]

13. Billy is a maggot in the Butter dish...yikes...throw it out.....

He is a turd on your soles....

[NWHarkness]

19. Red Herring

It's got nothing to do with appointments, it's about the conservative reaction to the Warren choice, which, in my opinion, makes it clear that it was a very bad decision. They do not see this as an example of Obama reaching out to them, bot rather, of bowing before them.

[Uzybone]

23. It was definately a bad decision

but I could care less what the ultra right thinks about it. Let them think they are winning, while we continue to make laws and set policy and win elections.

Worrying about what the right wing thinks of your decisions is a bit like letting the terrorists win.

[NWHarkness]

39. Fair enough

I don't agree with your assessment, but I see the sense to it.

[xxqqqzme]

17. It is true. I remember as I was

growing up, evangelicals were thought of as crazy, fringe elements of Christianity. And I grew up in Indiana........in a rethuglican family! My rethug family even considered Billy Graham 'out there'. Oral Roberts and all the other Sunday morning TV bible bangers were jokes. Their anti-science rants/sermons were openly ridiculed.

[Uzybone]

22. and "out there" Billy Graham never gave invocations did he?

Evangelicals are no more relevant today than they were 10 or 20 years ago. People are acting as if the evangelical movement suddenly got big. There have been spikes in evangelical movements in this country since the 1800's.

[NWHarkness]

25. You are correct

There has been a repeating cycle of evangelical revivalism throughout American history. i think one of the reasons that some people are so upset with Obama's choice of Warren is the fear that it will give a boost to religious extremism just as it seemed to be losing power.

[Uzybone]

30. Warren is an asshole

but if he is the face of American religious extremists in the next decade then we have won the war. I'm not saying we shouldn't be vigilant but a few years ago we were worried about all evangelicals voting republican.

[camera obscura]

28. Is this his last column?

since I heard they're searching for his replacement....

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

38. Along with Joe Scarborough and Pat Buchanan too... all the cool people "get it"

All the RW types on Morning Joe today were 100% behind the proposition that people complaining about Rick Warren are nut-left assholes.

Awesome...

A real Iraq War flashback. That was the last time everyone was so unified in considering people holding a certain viewpoint (that there was no threat in Iraq) effeminate, whiny whack jobs.

[NWHarkness]

40. Well, they still push the idea that anyone who wants out of Iraq is nuts

but that wasn't the point I was making.

My point in quoting Kristol ws to point out the folly of thinking the right would see "outreach" as anything but appeasement.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

41. Sorry. Didn't mean to misinterpret.

[NWHarkness]

43. Not a problem n/t

[AtomicKitten]

42. A spotlight on Warren is a spotlight on his bigotry.

Warren is a leader and IMO this national exposure cracks this once closeted (pardon the pun) discussion wide-open. The LGBT community will not win any ground by simply lobbing hand grenades. Sunlight on this man's ugly point of view is the best disinfectant. Americans must see this as a civil rights issue with religion the match that lights the fuse of haters.

[Mz Pip]

45. I agree

In a way having Warren in the spotlight has proven just the opposite of what Kristol claims. It just proves how backward and reactionary their thinking is.

As much as I dislike the choice of Warren for the invocation, one big positive is that it has made the country aware of who he is and what he believes. I don't think he comes out a big winner on this. I'd never heard of the guy before the Saddleback forum. Now I know a lot. And so does the rest of the country.

[AtomicKitten]

46. LTTE are lighting up editorial pages across the country.

This subject is no longer static and with movement there will be progress.

We have all kinds of reasons to be hopeful. :patriot: