redstate_democrat
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Mon Feb-09-09 09:11 PM
Original message |
Rachel: Dumb it down and put it on a bumper sticker |
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Edited on Mon Feb-09-09 09:36 PM by redstate_democrat
that's her suggestion to my wonderfully genius president. No thanks, I like complete sentences, context, and long answers just fine.
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stray cat
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Mon Feb-09-09 09:12 PM
Response to Original message |
1. If you want to reassure americans that they are in good hands- sound competent! |
rainy
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Mon Feb-09-09 09:12 PM
Response to Original message |
2. Chris looked crushed after Rachel said that. nt |
redstate_democrat
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Mon Feb-09-09 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #2 |
7. I didn't get it. I thought we were supposed to enjoy being spoken to as adults. |
rainy
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Mon Feb-09-09 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
24. Maybe Rachel was thinking of how stupid the general public is and how |
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for them to pay attention, they need a sound bite. It works for the republicans very nicely.
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Z_I_Peevey
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Mon Feb-09-09 09:12 PM
Response to Original message |
3. No More Epic GOP Fails |
BlooInBloo
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Mon Feb-09-09 09:13 PM
Response to Original message |
4. Fuck dumbing it down. Shame Americans into wanting to not be idiots any more. |
EraOfResponsibility
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Tue Feb-10-09 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #4 |
45. ROFL there ya go! LOL |
firedupdem
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Mon Feb-09-09 09:13 PM
Response to Original message |
5. KO kind of asked about the length as a question based on the |
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shrubs quick answers. Rachel seems to think he needs a sound bite. I disagree.
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demokatgurrl
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Mon Feb-09-09 09:13 PM
Response to Original message |
6. I feel insulted by that. n/t |
Mist
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Mon Feb-09-09 09:14 PM
Response to Original message |
8. Rachel's been disappointing me lately. nt |
ginnyinWI
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Mon Feb-09-09 09:16 PM
Original message |
her thing is to be unhappy with everything. |
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So if there isn't anything, she has to find something. That's kinda dishonest journalism if you ask me. She has to exaggerate some little thing.
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Mist
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Mon Feb-09-09 09:22 PM
Response to Original message |
25. I think I'll call her "Moaning Maddow" from now on. What a hand-wringer she is. nt |
jefferson_dem
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Mon Feb-09-09 09:14 PM
Response to Original message |
9. I gave up on Rachel months ago. |
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Her political instincts leave much to be desired.
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Mist
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Mon Feb-09-09 09:16 PM
Original message |
I was really put off by her commentary re: * being booed at the inaugural. She was |
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Miss Manners, tut-tuting over the booing. Where the fuck ya been the last eight years, Rachel? Sometimes expression of well-earned contempt is just a tad more important than the etiquette (and this comes from someone who was raised with rigid standards of etiquette by two southern grandmothers).
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mucifer
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Mon Feb-09-09 09:14 PM
Response to Original message |
10. so even msnbc won't give a positive review? That's crappy! |
Uzybone
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Mon Feb-09-09 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #10 |
13. Nah, Tweety almost orgasmed |
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and both KO and Rachel loved it for the most part.
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Mist
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Mon Feb-09-09 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #10 |
18. Olbermann was making the point that those who are used to a * presser may find |
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an Obama presser a novelty, even if they have to work a bit to keep up.
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firedupdem
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Mon Feb-09-09 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #10 |
30. Tweety and Olbermann were impressed. Both said he did a good |
Uzybone
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Mon Feb-09-09 09:15 PM
Response to Original message |
11. To be fair I dont think KO agreed with that |
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Rachel entered her Debbie Downer mode and had to find something to go negative about.
WE HAVE JUST BEEN THRU 8 FUCKING YEARS OF BUMPER STICKER POLITICS .....ENOUGH!!!!
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redstate_democrat
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Mon Feb-09-09 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #11 |
20. Maybe KO didn't I was half paying attention but my ears perked up when Rachel started talking about |
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bumper stickers and so forth. KO seemed to be fret *just* a little over the length of President Obama's answers.
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firedupdem
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Mon Feb-09-09 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #20 |
27. Yeah..not KO it was all Rachel and then she started her show by |
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calling his presser a "wonky sermon"
won⋅ky /ˈwɒŋki/ Show Spelled Pronunciation Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective, -ki⋅er, -ki⋅est. 1. British Slang.
a. shaky, groggy, or unsteady. b. unreliable; not trustworthy. 2. Slang. stupid; boring; unattractive.
Done with her...not that I watched her too much anyway.
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Avalux
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Mon Feb-09-09 09:16 PM
Response to Original message |
12. NO! Obama wants us to use our brains. He is challenging the American people to work with him. |
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Rachel pissed me off when she said that. Obama wasn't a sound byte candidate and he's not a sound byte president. It's wonderful and refreshing to hear a President answer questions with thought and consideration. I could have listened to him answer questions for hours.
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Berry Cool
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Mon Feb-09-09 09:16 PM
Response to Original message |
14. Oh, come on. She was just acknowledging the fact that some people, like it or not, |
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Edited on Mon Feb-09-09 09:19 PM by Berry Cool
have short attention spans, and if you don't want them to tune you out and you need them on board, you DO need something short, sweet and catchy for them to get behind.
It doesn't have to be "dumbed down" or insulting to the intelligence. It just means that it helps to be able to get your idea across in maybe 10 words or less, as well as in more elaborate formats.
And editing just to add: I think everyone on MSNBC was thrilled that they were able to listen to a president capable of speaking in whole sentences and expressing deeply thought-through ideas. Their concern--and it was a legitimate one--was whether some people would tune out. And let's be honest--a lot of people do tune out on lengthy, intelligent answers. Or at least say something like "Cut to the chase." I'm sure KO and Rachel, at least, have both been there. They've both been tuned out on or ridiculed for taking too long to answer a question because they see it in all its complexities.
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ginnyinWI
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Mon Feb-09-09 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #14 |
23. she shouldn't sell people short. |
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Either they understand everything Obama says, or they get a "sense" of the sincerity of the man. Obama just gives it and lets people get what they get out of it. I don't think he should talk down to people unless they are actually real children.
As fare as short and sweet goes, his town hall meeting today was far different in style and a lot more of a campaign mode. That's where to find the sound bites, not at a presidential presser.
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chieftain
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Mon Feb-09-09 09:16 PM
Response to Original message |
15. That commentary of Rachel's left me stunned. |
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The President gave a bravura performance and to complain that the program doesn't have a Madison Avenue created tag line is simply unworthy of someone who has been given 60 minutes a night to provide insight into our political system.
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dflprincess
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Mon Feb-09-09 09:16 PM
Response to Original message |
16. whoops accidental dupe - self delete |
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Edited on Mon Feb-09-09 09:23 PM by dflprincess
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dflprincess
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Mon Feb-09-09 09:16 PM
Response to Original message |
17. Maybe they're trying to help him get through to the Dittoheads |
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who will be intimidated by a president who uses big words and speaks in full sentences.
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Berry Cool
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Mon Feb-09-09 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #17 |
lxlxlxl
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Mon Feb-09-09 09:19 PM
Response to Original message |
19. Never overestimate the intelligence of the American people |
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I forget who said that, Mencken or Twain...
Look, this is economics, not war. Americans seem more comfortable discussing war than money, and I think that would be true in most countries. The GOP basically survives because economics and social programs is so hard to talk about definitively without getting into data
Data doesnt translate well especially on TV, where talking heads are more into opinion and bravado, and not examining data tables, or examine historical spending and efficacy of government programs. That's more of the job of the citizen...
So...If they can get a bumper sticker, I'm fine with it if it works. If the alternative is just going to do nothing while waiting for that light bulb to go off, then I prefer what I heard tonight.
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BrklynLiberal
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Mon Feb-09-09 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #19 |
28. Actually Mencken said the opposite.. |
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Edited on Mon Feb-09-09 09:24 PM by BrklynLiberal
“No one in this world has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”
I believe he was very cynical about the intelligence of the American public.
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FrenchieCat
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Mon Feb-09-09 09:20 PM
Response to Original message |
22. Rachel just needs to say...."I screwed up", ASAP! |
truthisfreedom
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Mon Feb-09-09 09:22 PM
Response to Original message |
26. How about "clever it up and put it on a bumper snicker?" |
WinkyDink
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Mon Feb-09-09 09:26 PM
Response to Original message |
29. "GOVT $$ = JOBS". There. |
Cash_thatswhatiwant
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Mon Feb-09-09 09:27 PM
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alcibiades_mystery
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Mon Feb-09-09 09:28 PM
Response to Original message |
32. What I've learned in 10 years of college teaching |
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The audience rises to the level of difficulty you set for them. This basic point about people is lost on the media, which is essentially elitist. They set a low level of discourse, and then blame the public for desiring it. They don't understand the fundamental point: if you set the level of discourse, your people will come following along. Every smart TV show in the last ten years (The Wire, Mad Men, etc.) has grasped this point, but not the political media, which has an investment in considering people too dumb too understand. It's disgraceful.
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redstate_democrat
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Mon Feb-09-09 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #32 |
33. I loved The Wire. Best damn television show ever. |
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Edited on Mon Feb-09-09 09:35 PM by redstate_democrat
edited to add: And I agree with your point. The low expectations the media has as to the intelligence of average Americans is crazy elitist. Give people a little credit and benefit of the doubt.
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alcibiades_mystery
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Mon Feb-09-09 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #33 |
34. Notice that NOBODY thinks THEY are the dumb ones |
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Nobody says "I'm a dumb American." Everybody says "Those OTHER Americans are dumb." It's always terribly vague. s it is, most people manage to hold down a job, pay their bills, and navigate fairly complicated lives in the information age. People are not stupid, and NOTHING in that press conference was all that complicated. If you understand your bank or hospital statement, if you can anticipate and make decisions based on your paycheck (and, despite a lot of bullshit, the vast majority of people CAN do these things), then you should understand everything that was said tonight.
The "dumb" public is largely a media myth fed by people's bloated egos (i.e., it makes people feel smart, since they're not the "dumb" ones).
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Clio the Leo
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Mon Feb-09-09 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #32 |
35. Are you familiar with the Paideia method of teaching? |
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It embraces this very philosophy ..... fill every child's cup to the brim, no matter the size of the cup.
And I'm a better person for it. ;)
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alcibiades_mystery
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Mon Feb-09-09 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #35 |
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Most students appreciate it. It's 1000 times better than being condescended to, as we saw tonight.
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Berry Cool
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Tue Feb-10-09 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #32 |
44. I guess the issue here is that to me, making something short and sweet doesn't necessarily equal |
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"dumbing it down." It can just mean tightening up the wording so the concept can be gotten across quickly and grasped quickly. It doesn't have to have anything to do with the "level of difficulty" or a "low level of discourse."
If anything, KO is an expert at demonstrating that if you set a high level of discourse, people will follow. I can listen to a 12-minute Special Comment and not get bored. He's not saying people are too dumb to understand something like what Obama's saying. Neither is Rachel. What they're saying is that he could use a quick, simple (but not DUMB) message to cut through the clutter as well.
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Jennicut
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Mon Feb-09-09 09:42 PM
Response to Original message |
36. I like Rach but she consistenly underestimates people |
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Remember the gloom and doom during the election.
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RepublicanElephant
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Mon Feb-09-09 09:44 PM
Response to Original message |
37. i'd love to see obama soundbites on the bumbers of millions of cars! nt |
glowing
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Mon Feb-09-09 09:46 PM
Response to Original message |
38. Unfortunately, many Americans are just stupid.. and half of them do need a bumper sticker. |
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which is why you hear stupid snippets coming from boner and the rest of them.
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bridgit
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Mon Feb-09-09 09:50 PM
Response to Original message |
39. I disagree, I think that's been the problem, I say keep it pithy and write it into law... |
Hansel
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Mon Feb-09-09 10:09 PM
Response to Original message |
41. I think his intended audience was the Press and the Republicans |
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Edited on Mon Feb-09-09 10:23 PM by Hansel
and not so much the American people.
I think his intent tonight was to set the tone for how he is going to deal with the press going forward. He already has the American people on his side. He just needs to stop the press from eroding that support through their moronic analysis and coverage. So he's schooling them.
One of his major campaign promises was to change the tone in Washington. The press is a good place to start. Rachel is underestimating him. Again.
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Still Sensible
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Mon Feb-09-09 10:11 PM
Response to Original message |
42. Right idea, mixing up the tactics though |
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She's absolutely right that the democrats have still not mastered operating in a sound bite world. Other commenters here are also right... you bet your ass we appreciate a president that can string together coherent thoughts.
Karl Rove was not the genius he's made out to be. What he did do, though, is understand that in this age the masses like simple messages... us vs. them, good vs. evil, black and white.
Rachel is right in that when you frame the message simply the masses get it!
And voila... Obama gets it, too. Throughout his eloquent press conference, he was continually hammering on simple themes. And while he was hammering away at those simple themes he didn't insult our intelligence with sound bite answers, though. He thoughtfully explained the what and why of the policies he is advocating.
The simplest message he hammered was "Their way is what got us here, we're not going to do it their way."
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dolphinsong285
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Mon Feb-09-09 10:34 PM
Response to Original message |
43. On XM's America Left today.... |
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someone-maybe Stephanie Miller- suggested calling the economic recovery plan the "Jobs Bill" That's not dumbing it down, it's just good marketing.
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Berry Cool
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Tue Feb-10-09 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #43 |
46. You got it. Exactly what I mean. |
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Part of the problem is that yeah, he does have to play to everyone, not just the smart people. So yeah, some spoon-feeding is going to be necessary with some of them. But a lot of what I hear them saying is not that he needs to "dumb down" the message. He just needs to whittle it to something that you can say quickly that cuts to the chase of what it's all about.
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Thrill
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Tue Feb-10-09 12:06 AM
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47. If you listened to Rachel. Obama wouldn't be President today |
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She claimed he was going to lose everyday.
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Political Heretic
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Tue Feb-10-09 12:17 AM
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48. First time I've had major disagreement with her. |
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