Hillary Clinton's climate-saving voyage

[biopowertoday]

Best of luck Hillary. Beijing is your territory. They loved you last time you made that important speech on women's issues and I know you will do us proud again.




http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0213/p08s01-comv.html




Hillary Clinton's climate-saving voyage


To help Obama win a Senate vote on emission caps, she needs to have China take action on global warming, too.
By the Monitor's Editorial Board

from the February 13, 2009 edition




Hillary Clinton chose Asia, particularly China, for her maiden voyage next week as secretary of State. While the most urgent issue is Beijing's help to end a global recession, Mrs. Clinton's more planet-saving goal is to enlist China to set curbs on its carbon emissions. Without that, President Obama may not be able to win enough Senate votes for a cap on US greenhouse gases.

As the world's two largest emitters, China and the US will set the pace this year among all nations in make-or-break negotiations for a post-Kyoto treaty on global warming. The talks end this December with a summit in Copenhagen.

If the world is to make a commitment to fight climate change, each of these giant polluters needs to know the other will jump into the same chilly pool of obligatory curbs on their tailpipes and smokestacks.

But if China isn't making much of a sacrifice, many US senators, especially those from coal states, may not support CO2 cuts or a treaty seen as reducing US competitiveness. China says it and other developing countries deserve to be allowed to pollute for a while to catch up to modern standards.

Mrs. Clinton must break this standoff. The bleak future that each country faces in a warming planet isn't all that different. And working together on climate change might even draw them closer. .................

[msongs]

1. china pollutes the world with toxic cheap low quality junk products - lead and melamine etc nt

[biopowertoday]

3. that is true.

[SIMPLYB1980]

14. I have a feeling we pollute the world with just as much toxic crap as China.

Not that I am defending them. They do need to clean up their act, just like we do.

[biopowertoday]

21. I recently read that China has surpassed us in relation to

CO-2 emissions. we had been #1 for a long time.

But we both need to act.

[Cha]

2. Bon Voyage and Bon

Chance, Hillary:patriot:

[karynnj]

4. This should be doable

After both Bali and Poznan, Senator Kerry spoke of how the Chinese were open to being involved - which they never were in the past. That was really the breakthrough that they had at Bali. He also spoke of a potential future joint project with them in advance of Copenhagen when Gore was before the Senate Foreign Relations committee. (link to Gore SFRC hearing - http://foreign.senate.gov/hearings/2009/hrg090128p.html

[biopowertoday]

6. .But China has two problems that may keep it from satisfying the US....

The local chiefs are a serious problem as they in essence keep the big guys in power.



...........But China has two problems that may keep it from satisfying the US.

Rather than slow its economy with emission caps, it wants the West to give it advanced energy technology, such as "clean" coal plants. That's a cost the US may not be willing to bear given the energy investments it needs.

The second is that the Communist Party, despite its green intentions, seems unable to control local chiefs in the provinces who are rewarded for growth and often ignore party mandates. And many of them are part owners in polluting factories.

A top-down campaign against CO2 is likely to fail. Until Beijing allows local democracy – and full freedom for citizen activists – there won't be enough public pressure on these local chiefs.

[NYC_SKP]

5. May as well start with the greatest threat first...

China, in making like America, has been overtaking the US as the greatest greenhouse gas producer, with few signs of slowing down.

Good for her, you go girl!

:applause:

[jillan]

7. Best of luck Hillary!

[babylonsister]

8. I wish nothing but luck, and SoS Clinton is a very smart woman. What's the

problem? She should be great at this.

[Jennicut]

9. Good luck, Hill.

I am excited to see her in action.

[blm]

10. So Hillary gets the credit and Gore and Kerry who actually DEVELOPED this proposal get ignored.

Gee - maybe Clinton's press people didn't KNOW Gore and Kerry discussed this for HOURS at the SFRC Climate hearing where they shaped this plan.

Newsmedia won't give Gore and Kerry credit for their proposals, but, what is stopping Hillary and her people from telling the TRUTH?

Here is the link to the hearing where Kerry and Gore spoke about doing that - http://foreign.senate.gov/hearings/2009/hrg090128p.html

[Metric System]

11. God, you're tiresome. Whenever there's a Clinton thread you show up to take a dump.

[blm]

12. Did you show up on the thread where Gore and Kerry shaped this plan? No...you didn't.

What's TIRESOME is Clintons and their press people who think NOTHING of shaping news stories to benefit the Clinton legacy while downplaying or outright IGNORING the truth.

You PREFER egotistical spin over truth - and THAT is at tiresome as it gets.

[SIMPLYB1980]

16. I think it's funny you seem to think that Gore, Kerry, and Clinton

are not working together on this. She is SOS which means she has to sell this to China. She will be a major player in Obama's Administration. You might as well get use to it, because she will be doing the Diplomacy thing for at least the next 4 years and hopefully the next 8.

[blm]

17. You think it's funny that Clinton's office chose to play UP her role while IGNORING the source

of the plan. Yep - the FACTS as they exist are always just 'funny' to people who care little for facts when their heroes are involved.

Typical move for Clintons and their defenders.

[SIMPLYB1980]

18. Typical outrage from a typical Clinton hater.

Not worth anymore of my time, but have fun wallowing in your hatred of anything that has to do with a Clinton for the foreseeable future.

[blm]

19. What's typical is Clinton shaping article as HER plan instead of truth that Gore and Kerry shaped

this outreach to China.

What do some of you have against the TRUTH being told in a NEWS ARTICLE?

[biopowertoday]

30. They are all working together to shape and carry out the climate plan.

All get credit.

[blm]

37. TRUE leaders would make sure that was the case when talking to the press - egoists do NOT.

especially egoists who had NOTHING to do with the position for which they are accepting credit.

[biopowertoday]

38. What a bitter soul you have.

[blm]

40. what a tolerance you have for inaccurate and distorted press stories....

.

[biopowertoday]

45. I am not the one having a hissyfit over an editorial. bye for now.

[karynnj]

28. I think BLM's point was that people here ignored the

threads on the SFRC hearing that Kerry held with Gore, who both have more than 2 decades work on this issue - including dealing with the other delegations. Kerry, spoke after Bali, of the productive meetings he had with the Chinese delegation - saying that this was a real turn around from past years. He spoke then - more in the international press than in the US press, which ignored him, of how China was already ready to make some commitments. He spoke of the good that could come of the US working with them to accomplish this. Gore was also at Bali - the coverage I saw took mostly the anti-Bush comments, though it is highly unlikely that Gore just went and attacked Bush.

The Bush administration, itself, praised Kerry's work at Bali - though only in SFRC hearing that the media opted not to cover. Here are quotes and links to two of them. The President’s chairman of the Council on Environmental Quality, James Connaughton, at this SFRC hearing http://www.senate.gov/~foreign/hearings/2008/hrg080124p.html said:
"“I would particularly also want to call out thanks to Senator Kerry for coming to Bali. I would note that the remarks he gave in Bali were very constructive in helping to educate the international community on the needs, what it would take for America to move forward together in a bi-partisan way. I thought those remarks were very well received. Senator Kerry, thank you for that.”
Listening to the hearing, the Senator is praised for his leadership on this issue by both Republicans and Democrats."
Kerry was the entire Congressional delegation to Bali. The Bush team praised the work he did before and at the hearing. Ambassador Stuart Eizenstat, a member of the team (around 4 minutes in) said:

"The fact that we had a treaty was significantly due to the fact that Senator Kerry was there. He was a virtual part of our negotiating team, without his day and night support and lobbying of the EU. we would not have gotten a treaty."
http://www.kerryvision.net/2008/04/in_defense_of_treehuggers.html

Last year, both Gore and Kerry went to Poznan. Kerry again spoke to the delegations, including the Chinese.

Both Kerry and Gore worked in Rio and Poznan to assure the world that the new team will be very engaged. HRC is part of that team, but so is Gore as an adviser, and Kerry, who as the Chair of the SFRC, will be take the lead in passing any treaty and how will continue to be involved internationally. - He was with Bush's permission, do you think Obama will use him less? Gore and Kerry have been involved in every climate change conference since Rio. With their knowledge of the issue, their familiarity with everyone involved and knowledge of their positions and the knowledge of what they need in a bill to get it through the Senate, do you think they will not be very involved? HRC, at this point, has none of those things. If you were her, who would you meet with before meeting peopel from other countries?

The fact is that given the comments Kerry made to Gore, at the SFRC hearing, http://foreign.senate.gov/hearings/2009/hrg090128p.html suggesting just such a joint US/China project - that would, in addition to any other gains, show the good faith of the top 2 polluting nations to change and because it would prove China's involvement, make it easier to get a treaty through the Senate. Kerry looked really excited at the prospect. That he said this last month shows that it was either his idea then or that it was an idea being considered among the people advising Obama on this issue. At any rate, it shows that Kerry is in the inner circle on this issue.

The frustration of BLM is that the article ignores that HRC is standing on some pretty big shoulders - Gore's and Kerry's - on this issue. She will represent the US on this as a diplomat, but even then she will likely be dependent on the man she named for this issue. The potential projects will likely be proposed by Dr Cho and US Scientists. There are many people who should get credit if this idea pans out. HRC as the SOS will be one, Gore, who made most of the country accept that climate change is real is one, Kerry as one who has worked to pull the Chinese into the process for years and who seems to have been a force that kept Bali from being a failure is another, Dr Cho will likely be one - but the main person will be President Obama, who made it his policy to do a joint project. (There are likely many others who will have played key roles.)

[blm]

32. The ADDED frustration is that Clinton and her office know damn well Gore and Kerry carved this road

but they want it to be played as Hillary's brainchild and leadership.

[karynnj]

36. Gore will always be known as the one who made this an issue

Kerry likely will be seen as the one who succeeded in getting the treaty through Congress. He also may well be seen as one of the people helping Obama design foreign policy. This article that Mass posted on DU JK, suggests the lively creative environment that he is trying to create in the SFRC - and from the Afghanistan and Sudan hearings he had, he is making an excellent start on that. http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2009/02/12/kerry_shakes_things_up_at_the_sfrc Between that and his very plum subcommittee on Commerce and his senior position on Finance, he is very likely to not just be, but be seen as a Senate power house.

HRC is the SOS and Obama will try to use her intelligence and star power to the best advantage. Whether I like her or not, I want her to succeed - because that makes Obama more successful and, as I believe in the share Democratic goals, I think it will make the world a better place.

[blm]

42. I would like the article to represent more of the truth - and HRC wanted it to represent

her version of the leadership on the issue. And the knowlittle media complied.

[karynnj]

43. In fairness, this is a CS editorial

There is not a single direct quote from HRC. I think the only thing she did was to announce the trip. It really is unfair to blame her for the editorial. I am surprised that they didn't mention Gore and the fact that he made it politically much more possible for this to happen. Kerry's role has been lower profile. I suspect it is also because this is the first area that HRC has taken on. All the big problem areas have been assigned to Mitchel (Israel), Holbroke (Afghanistan/Pakistan) and Iraq (Ross). I think I have those right. Even Dr Susan Rice has done things in her position. There is interest in what Clinton's role will be. Obama picked her because she is high profile.

[biopowertoday]

20. spot on.

[blm]

23. so, you're of the belief the article is correct that this is Clinton's plan for China and reporter

is correct in ignoring Gore and Kerry's leadership role?

I was outraged that Gov Bush got away with shaping his role in expanding Children's healthcare in Texas, too. Were you? Shouldn't facts ever matter in news articles?

[Clintonista2]

25. Wait for it... Blm will soon go off on one of her rants about how the Clinton's killed JFK

or one of her many other incoherent conspiracy theories.

[blm]

26. care to prove your accusation?

.

[karynnj]

33. That has never happened - Please give a link to even one of those rants

but given that you call yourself Clintonista2 - a term that many Clinton people think derogatory - I wonder if I should be surprised with your attack.

[ClarkUSA]

24. China has previously signaled that they will sign on to do more if the U.S. does as well.

Don't worry, anyone with half a brain in their head knows that Hillary is no/has never been Al Gore or John Kerry on global warming.
The SoS will merely be following up with President Obama's message that America is on board with Kyoto. China will now follow suit
100% instead of 60%, as they are already ahead of us in terms of green infrastructure development $$ and has had a ban on logging
in their country for about a decade now.

[blm]

27. well, don't look now, but some here at DU seem to believe this article accurately depicts

Clinton as the brains behind this approach.

[biopowertoday]

35. Well then post your own articles instead of demeaning our SOS who

will be carrying out Obama's wishes.

[blm]

39. the point was that Clinton knew the truth but played it as if it were own initiative - condone it if

you wish, but, the pointing to the consistent character flaw behind the distortions of that article shouldn't give you as much pause as the support you give FOR the source of the consistent distortions.

[biopowertoday]

47. Here, you might enjoy this one more??

Gore outlines climate change challenges
The prospect of water wars in Asia and other costs of failing to act on curbing emissions
By John Aloysius Farrell - GlobalPost
Published: January 28, 2009 21:48 ET
Updated: January 29, 2009 09:16 ET

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/diplomacy/090128/gore-outlines-climate-change-challenges

Al Gore added a new satellite photograph to his now-famous slide show when he showed it to U.S. senators on Wednesday.

It showed that the glaciers of the Himalayas, the primary source of fresh water for much of southern and central Asia, are shrinking.

Gore rattled off the names of the great rivers that carry Himalayan snowmelt to the teeming populations of China, Pakistan, India and other parts of southeast Asia, and to the farmlands that feed them.

“When the glaciers disappear, the source of the water will disappear,” Gore told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

(Click here for Gore's testimony.)

Added to the list of the region’s troubles — which include deep poverty, persistent pollution, religious extremism and sectarian violence — will be a new source of strife: thirst.

[karynnj]

31. Higher standards on auto efficency than our CAFE standards

as well. America is not on board with Kyoto, but with getting a treaty at Copenhagen that we would be in agreement with. One problem the Senate had with Kyoto was that there was no program for the under developed countries and without them. The only vote in the Senate was about 5 months before Kyoto was finished. It was the Byrd/Hagel amendment and it stated what they thought was needed - including this.

At Bali, the agreement was that the major under developed countries would be in - but with different goals recognizing that they have a right to development. The hope was that they could avoid some of the mistakes we made in getting there.

[hughee99]

34. If it doesn't work out, Hillary will get the blame

instead of Gore and Kerry, if that makes you feel any better.

[blm]

41. Except Gore and Kerry already did the groundwork for it to succeed months ago....

extra meetings were held in Bali that apparently received no notice from media.

[MadHound]

13. Perhaps we should start cleaning up our own act first

After all, it's rather hard to convince China to clean up theirs when we're the largest per capita producer of greenhouse gases, when we refused to sign Kyoto, etc. Perhaps China, India and the rest of the world would actually pay more attention to us if we started leading on this issue:shrug:

I imagine that all China is going to say is "you first", and they'll have every right to.

[blm]

15. Gore and Kerry made that point, too, at the SFRC hearing where this plan was put forth.

.

[karynnj]

29. Actually we are now second as of the end of last year -

this is not a source of pride - it's just that China is getting dirty faster. The idea was that BOTH of us would get cleaner.

[SeaLyons]

22. Good Luck, Hillary....n/t

[PBS Poll-435]

44. Well, I'll be damned if this thread isn't the biggest

Clusterfuck I have seen in a while.

:crazy:

[biopowertoday]

49. sure did turn into a clusterf***

[biopowertoday]

46. In first speech, Clinton to lay out US policy on Asia (today) AFP

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5joCYRZpKOabVQpbP-__Len8Itz_Q

In first speech, Clinton to lay out US policy on Asia

4 hours ago

WASHINGTON (AFP) — US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is to lay out the Obama administration's Asia policy during a speech in New York on Friday, before she travels to the region on her first foreign trip.

In her first foreign policy speech, Clinton will outline a vision that involves tackling climate change, the world economic crisis and North Korea's nuclear program as well as ensuring energy security, officials said.

Clinton's deputy James Steinberg said Thursday that Clinton will "lay out" the new administration's approach before she leaves Washington on Sunday for Japan, Indonesia, South Korea and China.

Her speech to the Asia Society, a non-profit educational institution, will give a foretaste of her trip where she will tackle the "full range of issues in a vitally important area," he told a Washington gathering.

These range "from the economic crisis to security, to global climate change and energy security, global public health and all the other issues that concern us all so much," Steinberg said....................

[biopowertoday]

48. Here is the speech from today:

You can hear the speech at the link.

http://www.c-span.org/




Sec. of State on US-Asia Relations
Sec. of State on US-Asia Relations
Today

For the first time since the Kennedy Administra-
tion in the 60’s, the Secretary of State addressed an event at the Asia Society. Sec. of State Hillary Clinton discussed relations with Asia on the eve of her first diplomatic trip overseas.
watch Georgetown Symposium: From Earlier

watch Sec. Clinton: From Earlier

[Raine]

50. Good for Hillary

wishing her much success!!

[Hippo_Tron]

51. China has 1.4 billion people, we have 300,000,000

I distinctly remember a quote from President Bartlet on the West Wing saying that lunacy is "A nation of SUV's telling a nation of bicycles to reduce their emissions."