What exactly is the fuel for the birthers?

[Tyler Generation]

I do mean this in question form.

Has Obama really not released his birth record? Isn't he a citizen since his mother is?

I apologize for the ignorance, but these people must have something fueling their desire to keep come back with this.

[Barack_America]

1. Racism. nt

[Tyler Generation]

4. Thats just the motive

I'm asking what they have that they consider "substance" for lack of a better word.

[Barack_America]

8. The SCOTUS has already ruled that their arguments have no "substance".

So, lacking substance, what is fueling them is their racism and utter disbelief that a black man could be President of the United States.

[WeDidIt]

12. There is no substance, there is only racism

In their pea-brained little white supremacist, Stormfronter minds, this makes them "better" than Obama because Obama isn't a "real citizen" so "technically" he isn't president at all.

[atreides1]

15. They have none

No real substance. They base their belief on the fact that his father was Kenyan, therefore he can't possibly be an American even if his mother was an American citizen.

And they're racist!

[PBS Poll-435]

2. Ether

or free courthouse pens.


:shrug:

[scheming daemons]

3. They need to "delegitimize" Obama...

The Impeachment of Clinton was meant as a way to delegitimize anything that he accomplished during his term.

This is their attempts to do the same thing to Obama.

if you can delegitimize your opponents, then you can more easily push your philosophy on the masses. "pay no attention to what that clown got done, it doesn't count."



We did the same thing with the "selected, not elected" mantra around Bush.



The only difference is... we were correct.

;-)

[Tyler Generation]

7. OP here, I know they are crazy racists I get that part

Why do they claim he hasn't released his birth cert? Has he, and they're just too crazy to admit it or what?

[kestrel91316]

11. They claim that a certified copy of his birth record is not a valid copy.

But I know for a fact, when I get certified copies of birth records in my genealogy research, they state as part of the "certifying" that: THIS IS A TRUE AND CORRECT COPY"........and "IS VALID IN ANY COURT OF LAW".

End of subject. The birthers have NOTHING to stand on.

[WeDidIt]

13. He has released his birth certificate

They claim it's a phony and demand he release the Hawaii "vault copy", which he cannot do under Hawaii law.

They've created a "catch-22" that Obama cannot meet the conditions of after declaring a document which is prima facie evidence to the fact of birth in any court proceeding a "forgery".

In other words, they are ignoring reality in favor of a racist meme created by Stormfront.

[leftynyc]

41. Some schmuck on a winger website

has stated the certificate on the web is a forgery. He/She is not an expert in authentication and has stated such. This person wont even give his real name but the lemmings on the right will follow this person off a cliff. In short, they believe it because they want to believe it. I say leave them alone because I find the whole think really entertaining.

[SIMPLYB1980]

5. Racism with a health dose of the crazies.

:silly:

[FrenchieCat]

6. President Obama is a citizen because he was born in the United States.

What fuels the birthers is ignorance, stupidity, desperation and hopelessness.

[Avalux]

9. Hatred. So strong they cling to fantasies that are absurd.

These people do not engage in rational thought; all they think about is getting rid of Obama. Doesn't matter to them that Obama's birth certificate has been released; doesn't matter they don't have a case. Facts don't matter. Hatred has rotted their brains.

[Bluerthanblue]

14. you got it!

hatred.

:hi:

[11 Bravo]

10. Batshit,, Hannity-level stupidity

[WeDidIt]

18. Not even Ins_Hannity will touch this Birther craziness

I think the reichwing radio barkers all got the memo that this crap came straight out of the Stormfront website.

[hughee99]

16. It's fueled by hatred...

but the argument goes that since his mother wasn't 19 when she was born, she hadn't spent enough years as an "adult citizen" to comply with the laws at the time for automatic citizenship for Obama. Since his father wasn't a US citizen he doesn't qualify to make Obama a natural born citizen either.

I don't agree with it, but that's the argument as I understand it.

[Tyler Generation]

17. THANK YOU!!!

For something more than they're just racist idiots!

[hughee99]

24. No problem, I thought that's what you were looking for.

Everyone already knows what motivates those people, but they don't always go off without believing they have some evidence on their side (though they're usually wrong). Some also grasping at the "He was really born in Kenya" straw as well, but for those who will at least admit that he was born in Hawaii, this seems to be what they're going with.

[WeDidIt]

36. Dude, the only subsatance to what they are screaming

is the fact that they're racist idiots.

[WeDidIt]

23. Actually, even most Birthers have shot that one down

The argument only works in a very specific case where Obama was not born in this country AND where a false interpretation of the law is taken.

[hughee99]

25. So what are they going with now?

The "Born in Kenya" theory?

[WeDidIt]

29. That combined with teh Donfrio argument

that since he had citizenship under British law, he couldn't be a natural born citizen at birth.

To overcome the precedent set by Chester Alan Arthur, whose birth circumstancess were similar as Arthur's father was a British subject when Arthur was born, they've invented a mythology that Arthur bamboozeled the country.

It was a well known fact when Arthur ran for the vice presidency that Arthur's father was a British subject when Arthur was born, which opponents tried to use against him though it failed. Having failed, they invented the story that Arthur was born in Canada, much like the Birther racists have invented the story that Obama was born in Kenya or Canada (depending upon which birther you talk to).

[TrogL]

37. Where was he supposedly born in Canada?

It's easy enough to FOIP that.

[WeDidIt]

42. That's a really weird one

When timing and travel contraints of 1961 are pointed out to the birthers, they then point ot a period of time when Stanley Ann Dnham spent a few weeks in Washington state visiting friends and prepping for some college courses she was taking via extension from a univerisity there.

They claim she slipped over the border into Vancouver, gave birth, and came back.

Yeah, I said it was weird. Nobody ever claimed these nutters were logical.

[Fleshdancer]

19. The State of Hawaii has shown the bc to numerous reporters

First the conspiracy theorists thought the bc was a fake, then they ignored the reports of Hawaii showing reporters the original, then they changed their tactic by questioning the meaning of "natural born" citizen.

[Arkansas Granny]

20. There are some who claim that Obama's Kenyan grandmother made

a statement that she had been present at his birth which was in Kenya. That would mean that he is not a "natural born" citizen since he was not born on U.S. soil.

-------------

Obama Born In Kenya? His Grandmother Says Yes.

Someone is lying. According to Obama's Kenyan (paternal) grandmother, as well as his half-brother and half-sister, Barack Hussein Obama was born in Kenya, not in Hawaii as the Democratic candidate for president claims. His grandmother bragged that her grandson is about to be President of the United States and is so proud because she was present DURING HIS BIRTH IN KENYA, in the delivery room.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Blogs/Message.aspx/3074

[jberryhill]

48. Unfortunately, that is a lie

Starting from the claim that she is his grandmother. She is one of the other wives of Barack Obama's grandfather.

However:

http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/02/sex-lies-and-creatively-edited-interviews-with-sarah-obama/

For some reason, the transcripts of the interview that have been posted on various right-wing Web sites all seem to cut off right after Sarah Obama says she was there when “he” was born. So does this YouTube video with the audio of the interview. But as The Economist points out, McRae also released the full audio, in which the key parts of the conversation can be heard. Here’s part of it. (The other person speaking is translator Vitalis Akech Ogombe.)

MCRAE: When I come in December. I would like to come by the place, the hospital, where he was born. Could you tell me where he was born? Was he born in Mombasa?

OGOMBE: No, Obama was not born in Mombasa. He was born in America.

MCRAE: Whereabouts was he born? I thought he was born in Kenya.

OGOMBE: No, he was born in America, not in Mombasa.

MCRAE: Do you know where he was born? I thought he was born in Kenya. I was going to go by and see where he was born.

OGOMBE: Hawaii. Hawaii. Sir, she says he was born in Hawaii. In the state of Hawaii, where his father was also learning, there. The state of Hawaii.

[Arkansas Granny]

50. Typical RW hate-mongers. They don't care about the facts.

They only listen to or read the things that support what they want to hear.

[jberryhill]

52. The thing is....

...someone with a casual interest doesn't always understand they've been fed complete bullshit.

The same grandmother was also mentioned in the context of meeting Obama for the first time when he visited Kenya as an adult. Go figure.

[Tyler Generation]

21. Thanks for the replies, everyone. Next question: Who the hell is Barry Soerto?

Or however they spell it, lol.

[rvablue]

28. I'm calling BS on your feigned obliviousness! n/t

[Tyler Generation]

30. It's not feigned, I'm trying make sence out of this

I guess every post has to have some know-it-all stroking their online ego.:eyes:

[rvablue]

32. Once again, how does one make sense of paranoid, crazy ramblings of lunatics? n/t

[WeDidIt]

33. Usually that's referred to as the "OP" n/t

[WeDidIt]

31. DING DING DING DING DING

My bullshit detector went off when I read the OP.

[jberryhill]

49. That is a mis-spelling of a name

Which people who do not understand:

- A child cannot revoke, renounce, or have renounced US citizenship

...use to refer to President Obama.

Their theory states that Barack Obama became a citizen of Indonesia at age five. US law does not permit any person born in the US to revoke or renounce US citizenship until 18 years of age.

Their theory is not possible.

[rvablue]

22. Your questions regarding this rest on the premise that their pursuits are

somehow based on rational thought.

Some DUer posted an account of one of the lead attorney's visits to D.C. a week or so ago.

In that account, the attorney, Berg (I think ??), claimed that government agents dressed as desitute homeless people were following him around.

In the account, Berg also noted his dismay at how they had IDed him because he was wearing a long blonde wig and a Hawaiian shirt.

Sounds like I'm making it up, right? I'm not. It's posted somewhere here on DU.

My point is those involved in this are looney-tune, bat-shit crazy lunatics.

And the last judge to rule on one of their "complaints" said this week that he would no longer consider their cases if in fact Mr. Berg could not show himself in court in order to prove that he is not insane. This was also posted here on DU earlier this week.

So, your questions have no merit because they demand a rational explanation of the motivations of paranoid, insane lunatics.

[Tyler Generation]

26. Cool story.

Kind of pointless to post that after my question has answered.

[WeDidIt]

27. That was Donofrio, not Berg

Berg is the 9/11 Truther. Donofrio is the professional poker player who came up with the argument that Obama wasn't a natural born citzen because his fater wasn't a US citizen when he was born. It was a creative argument, but then somebody pointed out to Donofrio that Chester Arthur's father was a British citizen when Arthur was born, so he created this myth about how Arthur bamboozled the country, even though it was common knowledge at the time that Arthur's father was a British citizen when Arthur was born.

When his case got thrown out, he tried to help another whackjob that used an identical argument, which was later also dismissed without even being heard.

HAving been laughed out of court twice, he went totally delusional in a fit of paranoia.

[Teaser]

46. Berg used to be a neighbor of mine

In fact, a child of one of my in laws used to work for him.
He was not always batshit crazy.


Something has sent him around the bend...

[Iggo]

34. Give it a rest.

[WeDidIt]

35. I wish I could rec a post n/t

[JuniperLea]

38. Use hide thread... eom

[Vinca]

39. They're all in a tizzy that the certified copies produced are not the "real" certificate.

Most people understand the "real" certificate is part of the public record and when you ask for your birth certificate you get a certified copy because the "real" copy stays in the government records.

[Milspec]

40. President Obama has multiple birth places

I have heard, Kenya, Canada (in multiple places), Indonesia and even Cuba being argued. It nuttier than a shit house rat

[WeDidIt]

43. And multiple fathers

We all know about Barack Hussein Obama Sr., but there are conspiracy theories where Frank Marshall Davis or Malcolm X are claimed to be Obama's father.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

53. The awful truth: He was born in Indokenubesia!

[Renew Deal]

44. Money

They are raking it in from their suckers/supporters.

[Teaser]

45. METH

.

[Political Tiger]

47. Hate, racism, jealously, insanity, all of the above

take your pick!

[jberryhill]

51. Donations from gullible idiots

Berg and the Plains Radio guy are collecting donations for this stuff.

[treestar]

54. He released a certified copy a long time ago

A lot of them just weren't aware of it (and also interestingly never demanding to see McCrook's birth certificate, and that of one of his parents, needed to prove McCrook was a citizen).

Once some of them became aware of it, they reverted to the forgery story.

Others spread out into the argument that if one of your parents is not a citizen, you are not a natural born citizen even if born on US soil - unlikely to fly since that would make a very large number of people into non-natural born citizens.