You have the Senate, the House and the Presidency. Go for real Universal Health Care.

[TheBigotBasher]

The Democratic manifesto on health, was in some ways a compromise to not whip fear on universal health care. The Insurance company has had America so much by the balls for years, its ability to run scare stories. An example of that was the other day, where Bloomsberg ran an OpEd about how the Obama administration was going to ration health care, the fact that the author was an Insurance lobbyist did not stop every dunderhead Rethug jumping on it. By the time CNN picked it up, Obama was going to be killing off the elderly.

So what is the reality of "Socialised Medicine"?

Have a proper look at the UK NHS. The UK spends less per person than the US Medicare system. Our overall combined (public / private) expenditure on health care is 1/3 less as a percentage spend of the GDP than the US and we have a higher life expectancy.

Go on go to the web site.

www.nhs.uk

The health service is fully comprehensive. Fully (to the extent that it is looking at even including alternative medicines).

Weight management clinics - check
chiropractic clinics - check
podiatry clinics (chiropodists)- check
smoking cessation (most definitely)
free flu jabs for the elderly - check

Choice in hospitals. Check.
A GP able to visit you in your home. Check
Cancer treatments started within two weeks. Check.
A target of 3month wait for the most minor of operation; soon to be reduced to one.

Not bad so far. For the 3 month wait for minor operations there are many in the US who spend far far longer times waiting for their insurance to come through.

If you do want private health care you can get it. For example www.bupa.co.uk and their comprehensive cover is far far cheaper than that of the US as they have to compete against free at the point of use. So your treatments from them are delivered in luxury hospitals, built more like hotels. For less than you pay for standard insurance.

As for what medical procedure is decided - Doctors decide. Always. There may be arguments about particular drugs, especially new ones, but a specialist body is responsible for resolving those. (Called NICE).

I would argue we have the better University Hospitals and better medical research. Competition between hospitals (patients are allowed to choose which hospital they want to go to) means machinery is advanced, not just up to date.

Cost per taxpayer. Our National Insurance system largely covers basic State Pensions and the NHS. The employer and employee pay an 11% contribution on earnings up to £40,000 ($60,000). Much much less than a mid cover health insurance would cost in the States. Your insurance would be cash limited too. It could run out mid treatment, on expensive heart surgery. In the UK. It will not be.

The NHS is a perfect example of good well run universal health care. When Republicans say that it will go bad, it means they will make it go bad as it is not Government that is bad, it is simply that they have no idea how to run good government.

As for any examples of right wing newspaper scare stories they throw at you about patients being left on trolleys (these are mobile beds not supermarket trolleys), for hours, awaiting treatment. They are at least awaiting treatment. They will have been seen by a nurse and doctor and will be prioritised. They will be seen. They will be treated. These stories come from Accident & Emergency Rooms where people come in with grazed knees or hacked off arms. Very serious injuries are seen immediately. Less serious injuries are seen within 2 to 4 hours. That is mandated target. That is a much much better situation than someone not being treated AT ALL because they have no insurance.

[midnight]

1. If we can fund bankers, and we can fund wars, we can fund

medical treatment for all of America.

[biopowertoday]

4. It has not been a priority. Even now with the job loses, it is not a priority

[jody]

2. Where is the money for permanent universal health care? Obama's stimulus is supposedly one time and

recouped from an improving economy.

It is unlikely that Obama will withdraw from Afghanistan and we will need billions to rebuild Iraq and support its military whenever Obama orders military operations to cease.

[TheBigotBasher]

6. Reform Medicare. Make it fully universal.

Where is the money for not doing it?

The car industry for one is collapsing under the weight of providing its employees, in a haeavy and in many cases a dangerous industry, a decent level of health insurance. The car companies should not need to meeting costs that should be properly met by taxation.

They are not the only industry with a choice of cutting health care, employees or both.

The US spends 15% of its GDP on health care, one of the highest levels of expenditure in the World and yet its coverage is near the bottom. The population of uninsured Americans is similar to that of a reasonable size European nation. Do you care to add to that the numbers of under-insured.

Can America afford to have its health dependent on an insurance industry, that is itself in intensive care?

[jody]

7. I support some version of health care for all but who should pay? Government is not obligated by our

Constitution to protect individuals unless she/he is in custody.

IMO it is morally right to help others in various ways including health care, but health care is not a right protected by our Constitution.

Given that we are in a recession/depression, other than stop fighting foreign wars and canceling Obama's stimulus package, how do you plan to finance universal health care?

[TheBigotBasher]

9. The Constitution requires protection of life

and that means health. So a very good case for universal health care, provided free at the point of use and paid for by General Taxation can be put forward for it on a strict Constitutionalist basis.

Our National Insurance is far lower than any single one of your medium coverage health insurance package, if you are a normal employee earning £30,000 ($43,000) per annum or less in the States, our national insurance is much lower than basic health coverage.

We have a government body called NICE, which negotiates drugs prices. It has the muscle to do so and even the Private Health companies benefit as a result. That keeps the cost of our NHS down. Our pay rates for health care workers exceed those of American Doctors and nurses, except in the industry of Hollywood Plastic surgery.

The US already has the network of hospitals. It would not need to build them. It just needs the courage to do introduce full universal health care.

[jody]

11. Regarding protection by government for citizens, SCOTUS said in

DESHANEY v. WINNEBAGO “A State's failure to protect an individual against private violence generally does not constitute a violation of the Due Process Clause, because the Clause imposes no duty on the State to provide members of the general public with adequate protective services.”

SCOTUS said in CASTLE ROCK v. GONZALES, “Respondent did not, for Due Process Clause purposes, have a property interest in police enforcement of the restraining order against her husband”

If government is not obligated to protect citizens against criminal, then why do you believe government is obligated to protect a citizen’s health?

[Thothmes]

13. Which article of the Constitution requires the protection of Life

I have been unable to locate it in my copy of that document.

[TheBigotBasher]

19. The bill of rights

prohibits Federal Government from depriving any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.

By its failure to provide a decent health care system is it meeting that requirement?

Regardless of the constitutional aspect of it; there is a moral pint that the US Government, which is the largest economy in the World should provide a decent health care system.

[Thothmes]

20. agree with a decent health care system.

but the constitution does not require it. What is says is that the government cannot take it away from you. It does not say they must provide it

[TheBigotBasher]

24. It went a bit o/t there

in discussing whether there was a Constitutional right to health care. There is definitely a moral right to health care.

I was also wanting to provide a defence that "socialised medicine" is not bad. Republicans are bad managers and can not run Government, so instead of admitting to incompetence they argue Government is bad.

[biopowertoday]

3. One good thing about their health care is the emphasis on preventive

care. They have had this approach for years and they also use alternative practitioners. We do little of either although some insurance companies do pay for preventive care now but it has been and is slow in coming.


On another note, Friday I posted the National call-in day for health care. One person helped me bump it a few times. But it sank quickly. Sad.

[quantass]

5. The rest of the world sits in AWE at the Medieval Backwardness of American Medicine.

[Thothmes]

8. As Shahs, Imirs, Presidents, Premiers, and the Uber wealthy

come to American "Medieval Backward" medical institutions like the Mayo Clinic and Johns Hopkins.

[TheBigotBasher]

10. Not facilities for the rich

Facilities for your poorest.

Our leading treatments from our University hospitals are available to all. They more than match those of the US. There are a few things that are not available in the UK, that are available if you have significant sums of money in the US.

There is a whole healthcare system worth of treatment available in the UK for those without money that is quite simply not available to Americas lower, working and middle class,

I know which I prefer.

[Thothmes]

12. I was addressing his blanket statement about the rest of the world

which is obviously wrong.

[Honeycombe8]

17. Not really. That's why people all over the world fly here for treatment.

The sad part of our healthcare is that it is only available for some, not all.

But for those who have it, the care is high level stuff. The stuff that dreams in other countries are made of.

[Jennicut]

14. Not going to happen. Our majorities are in part from conservative/moderate Dems.

We can have these seats be Repubs or have them as less then perfect Dems. But no way are we getting Universal Healthcare. We will get health care reforms which are desperately needed. Depends on where the country is. The Clintons tried and got no where on reforming any thing with healthcare.

[TheBigotBasher]

15. It is not moderate to leave a Nation within a Nation uninsured.

It is not moderate to allow a situation where your maximum insured limit determines whether you die or not.

It is not moderate to allow people to have a large chunk of their salary go to a Private Health Insurance Company that so under insures them for any significant illness that they as well not have had it.

It is not moderate to watch your Industries buckle under the cost of uncompetitive health charges while other Nations firms do not because their Government provides a decent level of health care.

Even Republican voters want universal taxpayer funded health care.

[Jennicut]

22. I did not say it was right but that is what the political realities are.

If Obama wants to really fight for it he needs to go on a media blitz, one that we have never seen before. He needs people calling in to congress demanding Universal Health Care. If there is a president that can use the media in the most effective way, its Obama.

[TheBigotBasher]

23. Agreed

but Democratic Senators need to learn some basic Party discipline. The Rethugs are misusing the Courts to stop the seating of Senator Franken. Mn Should call the seat and have him seated. Let Coleman fight all the way until 2010 then sounding like a baby.

How did the Republicans get the House to stay in line - the Party Whip system.

Those who knocked on doors for the Democratic Party need to be the Party whip.

Phone the first vote seven and call them say:

You have health care
I dont. I want it
Sort it.

Call the Senators that will be weak on health. They are not being moderate. They are killing people. Remind them that feet and votes are more important than campaign cash as the insurance lobby will be offering lots of that. Tell them exactly the same.

Senator
You have health care
I dont. I want it
Sort it.

This is why the American public gave the Democratic Party the House, the Senate and the Presidency. To be bold. To rub the faces of Republicans in it. Why should it be affordable to bail out banks and not people in need of cancer treatment?

As for any cost argument - the NHS is a full comprehensive system that is 1/3 per person cheaper than the US system because it is not compulsory Private Health Insurance. If you have to use Private Insurance, by law, they will charge more because they can.

[Honeycombe8]

16. Not gonna happen. Not even most Americans or senators & congress people support that.

First, it'd be waaaaaay costly. Much less expensive to build on what's already there. Second, there just isn't the mass support for it among the constituency and among the politicians.

Obama campaigned, and won, on a plan he had in mind. That's what he should pursue. The people who campaigned on national healthcare plan? They lost.

[Honeycombe8]

18. The candidates who campaigned on a national healthcare plan? They lost.

The two who campaigned for some sort of modified plan, building on what exists currently? (Clinton and Obama) They duked it out for the nomination.

Obama won. He should pursue the plan that he determined was the way to go. It actually sounded good and made sense to me. But it's not perfect. None of the plans are. Even national healthcare is not perfect.

All these plans would probably work pretty well for the average person with average illnesses, who is reasonably healthy but gets the normal illnesses.

[TheBigotBasher]

21. You can get to opening up full universal health care

by extending Medicare to all.

The other Democratic candidates stood no chance against the highly effective Political machines of Clinton and Obama. They clashed on whose plan could be delivered and who actually had a more universal plan. The main elements of both are extending private health insurance, although Clinton had mandates. Not the best if you are the person whose job it is is to clean the toilets on minimum wage. It is those that the Democratic Party should indeed serve.

These plans were developed on the basis of what could be got through Congress. The voting public does not know the specifics of either plan and those times have moved on. The voting public gave the Democratic Party the Presidency and Congress for a reason. They even gave the Party an all but filibuster proof Senate, which the Rethugs are desperately trying to block. They want the problems solved.

One of those problems is millions of uninsured and under-insured Americans.

The health provisions in the Recovery Act bill makes achieving universal health care a lot easier to achieve.

[IGotAName]

25. Please use the term "single-payer"- "universal health care" has become

a corrupted term used by waffling Dems to cover up their lack of action.

[Hippo_Tron]

26. It would destroy the insurance industry, which is why it will never pass

Lots of people are employed by the insurance industry and are concerned about their jobs.

[TheBigotBasher]

27. The Insurance Industry is not exactly secure at the moment

and I would worry more about leaving health care to a Finance industry that is itself on life support. What happens to your coverage if your Company goes bust?

There is in the UK a fully comprehensive health care system and a complementary private health insurance market for those that want a Rolls Royce service.

[Laelth]

29. Not the whole insurance industry, but a big slice of it, yes.

And that would be a GOOD thing.

The United States is a LIBERAL Country.

:dem:

-Laelth

[Laelth]

28. Hear, hear! n/t

The United States is a LIBERAL Country.

:dem:

-Laelth