Al Sharpton is on his way to the NY Post to raise hell about this toon

[CatWoman]

this was run in today's paper.

Heard about it on the Tom Joyner Show, while driving to work.

This dumb shit isn't even funny. It fails on so many levels.

Statement by Reverend Al Sharpton, President of National Action Network

New York, NY (February 18, 2009) --The cartoon in today’s New York Post is troubling at best, given the racist attacks throughout history that have made African-Americans synonymous with monkeys. One has to question whether the cartoonist is making a less than casual inference to this form of racism when, in the cartoon, the police say after shooting a chimpanzee, “now they will have to find someone else to write the stimulus bill.”

Being that the stimulus bill has been the first legislative victory of President Barack Obama (the first African American president) and has become synonymous with him it is not a reach to wonder whether the Post cartoonist was inferring that a monkey wrote it? Given that the New York Post cartoonist has come under heavy fire in the past for racially tinged cartoons including the infamous cartoons depicting 2001 mayoral candidate Freddy Ferrer and me in very unflattering ways (that ultimately was used as a campaign tactic to inflame racial prejudices), one cannot ignore that history when looking at this morning’s cartoon.

The Post should at least clarify what point they were trying to make in this cartoon, and reprimand their cartoonist for making inferences that are offensive and divisive at a time the nation struggles to come together to stabilize the economy if, in fact, this was yet another racially charged cartoon. .

[babylonsister]

1. That is disgusting on so many levels. Whoever approved that

should be fired, right along with the cartoonist.

[Deep13]

24. +1

[indimuse]

242. +2!!!

!

[Rosa Luxemburg]

365. Rupert Murdoch?

[Faygo Kid]

30. Grotesque in so many ways.

The Right thinks it can get away with anything now. They are in steep decline, led by Rush.

[truthrocks]

236. Email your outrage to NY Post. I just did. Email address below:

I just emailed this letter to:
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]

A "cartoon" depicting the annihilation of the writer of the stimulus bill is a pretty straightforward portrayal of . . . well . . . the annihilation of the writer of the stimulus bill! And who might that be? Oh, yes ... it's OUR PRESIDENT. Political satire is one thing. Generating attention through controversy is another. All good. This "cartoon" is neither. And it's really, really bad. In fact, it takes the expression of anti-American sentiment to a new and very frightening low. Not to mention making light of the tragedy of the woman who's face and hands were mangled, and may not survive.

BOYCOTT NY POST!

PLEASE email your outrage to these NY Post editors and writers now.

[skooooo]

2. OMG

Where did this appear?

He should be raising hell about it. What is wrong with people?

[davepc]

3. I don't get it...at all

Even trying to interpret it from the worst angles...

[The Doctor.]

34. The insinuation is that the bill was very poorly written.

That's all really.

Those that choose to see more, will.

[bunnies]

42. Glad to see this post...

I thought I was the only one thinking this.

[The Doctor.]

47. It's easy to see why people might think that at first.

But with a little thought, it just doesn't seem that's the artist's intent.

[bunnies]

54. I agree.

It makes me think of that oft used phrase "a monkey could do it". You know? As in... "What? He makes $20 bucks an hour?! A frigging monkey could do that job!" Couple that with the psycho chimp in the news and there you have it.

Its almost more twisted, imho, to conclude that the chimp in the cartoon = Obama. I still cant find my way to that conclusion.

[traxster]

128. Even if it is not the author's intent...

People have to be very sensitive when making any comparisons to black people and monkeys, no matter how loose. Historically, blacks have been referred to as monkeys by racist in order to degrade them. And by them, I mean US. I am a black person, so when I see that, that is what I think.

Even if that is not the authors intent, had he chosen any other symbol it would have been fine. But putting a monkey to even loosely represent the president, a black man, is a dangerous thing to do because of the historical context of the slur that has been used for years.

[bunnies]

143. I dont disagree with you.

Its just that I didnt see it as the chimp = Obama. Its like I said above, I'm very used to people saying "a monkey could do it". Kinda like the geico caveman thing - which is exactly what I thought when I saw the cartoon. Clearly though, most people see something in it that I didnt automatically see, so surely *someone* must have pointed that out to the cartoonist.

That said, it was insensitive to run it (at best) & hateful bigotry (at worst). I understand your point. :pals:

[traxster]

146. Exactly. I think he knew it could be taken in different ways, one of which is very bad. eom

[tblue37]

211. Exactly.! It's a dogwhistle. His "base" will understand what he means, but

those who don't automatically think that way might be fooled into thinking it's an innocent cartoon That others are reading too much into.

[The Doctor.]

145. That's a fair point.

If it weren't for the shooting the other day, then there would be no question of intent here.

The flip side of your point is that no one can use a chimp in a political cartoon for the next 8 years because they'll be considered 'racist' regardless of the context they use it in.

Racists often use chimps to refer to black people.
The use of chimps in media does not automatically translate to racism even though it might indicate it.

That's all I'm really saying.

It's interesting to watch the way people react to vague implications by assigning concrete values and establishing certainty.

[traxster]

149. As unfair as it is...

No, people should not use a monkey as a symbol for anything relating to the president or any other black person. I was not aware of the shooting, maybe I would have a different thought.

I think back to the various monkey references that happened during the election, some loose, some blatant and my main issue is that people know what could be thought when they do it and they decide anyway. Even if the criticism is unwarranted, or unfair, it should not be unexpected.

[The Doctor.]

151. But that's a contrived connection.

You say the chimp is supposed to represent the President. No?

Then what you are saying is that no chimp can appear in a political cartoon for the next 8 years regardless of context.


Perhaps the artist isn't racist, but he knew just how to ring some bells. Either way, this thread is proof that his stock went up.

[traxster]

153. No, not regardless of context...

I don't *think* the monkey is exactly supposed to BE the president. But, because a good cartoonist or a good editorial guides people to think in different ways, not just one way, it is not too far off base that for some it could represent the president.

That is the issue. What you said...he knew he would push some buttoms, which meant he knew that some would feel that the monkey represented the president. To that end, it was somewhat purposeful and in that case, the criticism is he getting is warranted.

I don't believe the author is racist, but I would not be surprised if this exact cartoon was to show up and be used by racists because of the symbolism using the monkey.

[The Doctor.]

159. Then the criticism he's getting is what he was after.

Ok, so it makes a bit of sense; The artist, recognizing the nebulous nature of his depiction, the convenience of a recent event, and the tendency for outrage by the racially "over"sensitive, set out to create publicity... mission accomplished.

It's not unreasonable, however, to also assume that he may have simply decided to link the event to the bill merely to comment on the bill.

That's kind of the point; it requires an assumption to trigger the outrage. If everyone just took the message to mean, 'this bill sucks', then most of us still wouldn't know his name.

[traxster]

161. But it also requires an assumption to think that he didn't mean anything.

So, I will say he is very clever. I think it is naive to think that the possibility that people would not think this way never crossed his mind. I am sure it did. To him, an editor, or someone. I would not say that he is racist. I will say that he knew this would ruffle feathers and ran it anyway. To that end, I would say that he probably doesn't give a damn about political correctness. And should he? That's not up to me. That's up the NYPost and how much they want to sell their papers.

[The Doctor.]

164. Read your SL wrong. Yes, one would have to also 'assume' he was innocent.

I think I can agree that he may have known what he was doing, but that is still an assumption... no matter how reasonable.

[traxster]

167. Yes, we can agree its a "reasonable assumption" that he knew what he was doing. n/t

[traxster]

169. "Dog whistle Racism"

This was the term that was used by a friend of mine. Interesting.

[FatDave]

188. I was thinking "plausible deniability".

[ElsewheresDaughter]

255. indeed.......................

The most dangerous kind of prejudice to humanity as a whole isn't dressed in white sheets, doesn't have a shaved head and isn't hanging people in a foreign land. It's coming from the smile of a friend and most times, they don't even know it.

[Raineyb]

316. Going by some of the responses in this thread making excuses for this God-awful cartoon

it would appear that there are plenty of people who are under the mistaken impression that if it doesn't wear white sheets, a swastika, or burn crosses then it's not racism.

It's generally a lot more insidious than that and when those instances come up we get people claiming that the ones who recognize the racism are the actual racists. These folks need to wake up otherwise we will never be able to do anything about racism because we won't be able to convince fools it still exists.

The amount of excuse making for this jackass cartoonist is appalling and all those people who refuse to acknowledge the racism that's right in front of their noses on the computer screen as per the OP are as much part of the problem as the bigot who drew that asinine cartoon.

Regards

[jberryhill]

319. And screw AG Holder

"The amount of excuse making for this jackass cartoonist is appalling and all those people who refuse to acknowledge the racism that's right in front of their noses on the computer screen as per the OP are as much part of the problem as the bigot who drew that asinine cartoon."


"we must feel comfortable enough with one another, and tolerant enough of each other, to have frank conversations about the racial matters that continue to divide us."

[Raineyb]

345. Eric Holder is 100% right

But I am sick and tired of trying to pretty up the obvious. I am not interested in making people feel comfortable by allowing them to think their deliberate blindness is legitimate. If you want to do so that's certainly your prerogative but it doesn't work otherwise we would have had an actual honest discussion about race a long time ago. If you think what I said was bad then you're really going to be uncomfortable if you ever overheard an honest discussion on race.

Regards

[tblue37]

215. Don't forget the idiot at the Palin rally who showed a monkey doll

labeled with an Obama bumper sticker. He waved it around, proudly snickering and calling it "Little Hussein."
http://gawker.com/5062352/yes-sarah-palin-your-fans-are-racists

I can't find the original video, but here is a later one:
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/10/11/politics/fromtheroad/entry4515246.shtml

And then there is this:

http://yedda.com/questions/TheSockbama_com_Obama_sock-monkey_2737016227135/



Do NOT tell me that his "base" doesn't know what he means by that cartoon. There's nothing innocent about it!

[Name removed]

225. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Wednesdays]

254. Pelosi looks like a monkey?

I've never heard that one before. :shrug:

[Name removed]

260. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Proud_Lefty]

238. I agree that this toon is in bad taste

But honestly, I always compare a chimp to Bush, not Obama. I think I've even called him Chimp many times. I can even see him shaking his head around and up and down, with his lips puckered. Can't you see it?

[shadowknows69]

322. It does suck that it comes to being that PC, because I too don't think there was racist intent

But that is the bed this country made for itself and anyone with any comprehension of our history wouldn't have drawn that. Also, this is the Post we're talking about here. Garbage in, garbage out.

[paulkienitz]

228. OK, then why is the monkey shot?

Why would a monkey be shot by a cop, if it's not a reference to incidents such as the Oscar Grant BART shooting. If the monkey is a reference to authors of the stimulus, why are cops in the cartoon at all? With the best will I can't see this as other than an attempt to tie our new administration to street crime through a common thread of chimps. And the only way that makes any sense is as racism.

<edit> Woops, I didn't know there was a recent news story about cops actually shooting a chimp.

[bettyellen]

272. then you haven't seen other work by this "artist" his stock in trade is racism

thanks for talking out your ass!
little thought was spot on.

[shadowknows69]

323. Didn't realize he had a history of racially charged toons

That does put a finer point on it.

[The Doctor.]

411. Yeah, that would certainly be telling. Haven't found one yet though.

I've got a little time, I'll take a look.

[stevedeshazer]

69. You can't see the blatant racism in that?

Wow.

[vaberella]

76. Don't waste your time. This is COMMON for the NY Post.

They have been knwon for making blatant racist remarks and cartoons and get off when people like the above just push it to the side. And they'll continue doing it.

[The Doctor.]

84. It's only 'racist' because you choose to see racism.

You've ignored the intent of the cartoon to do so.

So, explain how the cartoon is 'racist'. Because there's a chimp in it and that automatically means 'Obama'?

That requires a stretch, but when people seek to find offense, they'll often reach for it.

[traxster]

86. Remember the guy at the McCain rally in PA with the monkey with an Obama sticker?

That is what MONKEY means to racist bastards. They use MONKEY references to degrade black people. They could have chosen any animal...they could have chosen lots of different things. They chose a monkey for a reason. For the same reason as that guy who took the monkey to the McCain rally.

If you don't see it, it is because you have decided not to see it.

[The Doctor.]

93. That was obviously racist... a direct implication.

This is not.

It takes a greater stretch to see racism than to see the simple implication; "The bill sucks, as though an enraged monkey wrote it."

Since so many people wrote it, it's simply illogical to assume this is racism directed at Obama.

[traxster]

97. The original author was President Obama.

Yes, many people wrote it, and if they had a cartoon with the police rounding up a gang of monkeys, to represent the entire democratic house and senate then I would agree. But clearly, they are insinuating the one person who authored the bill, and that was the president. Now look, I am not one of those people who see racism in everything. But I am no dummy...I know what it is when I see it.

[FatDave]

132. I understand your argument.

Though the "a monkey could do it" angle did not occur to me until it was pointed out. I immediately saw the racial overtones, but I'll admit this could be my own over-sensitivity (middle-aged white liberal that I am).

But one question: Why are the police gunning down a chimp?

[traxster]

136. What he doesn't seem to get is the history behind blacks being portrayed or referred to as monkeys

Even if it was not the author's intent, he should have been more careful. Now, I think this guy KNOWS the history behind it and decided to do it anyway. Its just vague enough that people who are mad will look crazy. But its blatant enough for everyone else to think that this guy is not as slick as he thinks he is.

[Number23]

273. There are certain people, some of whom try to be well-meaning

but who still refuse to accept our country's torturous racial history.

There is a very good chance that the author of this cartoon did not have any DELIBERATE racial intent. Does that mean that his cartoon is not racist? My personal thought is that this cartoon, in addition to not being even the slightest bit funny, is definitely racially insensitive.

Some people believe that unless something is DELIBERATELY created for the purposes of disparaging people of a certain race, it cannot be racist. They fail to understand that some things can be unintentionally racist, but racist nonetheless. To be honest, sometimes something unintentionally racist can be far more hurtful than something that was deliberately crafted to be racist.

There are so many examples of this, I can't even name them. This is a picture of Michelle Obama that is currently all over the Internet. It portrays her as a chimpanzee and is deliberately racist. Some could easily argue that the NY Post cartoon was not DELIBERATELY racist, but honestly, would that a bit of difference to the people who know our President personally?

There was a story last year about a woman in Texas who got smacked down because she ran out to two children climbing a tree in their own yard and accused them of "acting like monkeys." The two children were black; the woman was not. She may not have been INTENDING to be racist in her comments, but they were certainly taken that way by the childrens' parents who filed a complaint against the woman and who was fined because of her actions.

Like I said, I don't know if the author of this cartoon was trying to be racist. He probably didn't even think about it that way. I don't think that he'll have the luxury of ignorance ever again, though.

[The Doctor.]

358. That's precisely the point I've made repeatedly;

"Even if it was not the author's intent, he should have been more careful."

What you've just said is that now, every artist, writer, cartoonist, or TV personality has to screen themselves against saying anything that can be interpreted, even loosely, as racist simply because Obama is President.

Here I am trying to reach a higher level of discourse over this issue, but some just can't drop the blinding outrage. Unfortunately, that makes most of their opinions nearly worthless.

Thanks for being rational, it means you have opinions I'll be able to respect.

[bunnies]

144. Because recently, the police literally gunned down a chimp.

It went crazy and mauled a lady. It was someones pet. On Xanex, I think. For real.

[FatDave]

181. Hadn't heard that.

Sounds like he had a paradoxical reaction to the Xanax.

[mdmc]

237. the other day some local cops gunned down a rabid chimp

honest to God.

They had to take down this chimp gone wild.

As a cartoonist I see this - the bill sucks, looks like it was written by a insane chimp,,

I also see that the cartoon is not brilliant, it is only controversial.. kinda..

So the toonist did his job and works another day..

[jberryhill]

250. Why are the police gunning down a chimp?

Because it was THE lead story in the NY-CT area yesterday.

They gunned it down because it nearly mauled a woman to death after taking Xanax.

[FatDave]

298. OK. That story didn't make it to the ass of Iowa.

Nor MSNBC primetime.

[jberryhill]

318. It happened in Connecticut and is a saturation story in the New York Post media market /nt

[Cash_thatswhatiwant]

192. yeah, it seems to be referring to that crazed monkey that's been in the news..NOT obama.

[Wednesdays]

257. So, where's the monkey-stimulus bill connection? nt

[The Doctor.]

268. It's in the implication that the bill was so bad a chimp could have written it.

[October]

328. So they murder the author/chimp?

It fails in its logic.

[The Doctor.]

370. That's because that's not the message.

If it were, I would agree.

The death of the chimp is incidental, the message is that it was the chimp who wrote the bill... so they'd need another chimp. The most visible commentary, of course is that the bill sucked. I do not dismiss the possibility that the artist may have intended racist undertones, but they're pretty far 'under' considering the relevance of current events and the artist's known displeasure with the stim bill.

You did hear the story of the chimp shooting... right?


I'm wondering if many people were not aware of the incident, immediately saw the cartoon as 'racist' due to their ignorance of the incident, and then found themselves 'decided'.

I'll admit, if I didn't know about the shooting, that might have been my first conclusion as well.

[stevedeshazer]

92. You're right. I choose to see racism, and I'm proud that I do.

You choose to ignore it, in fact defend it.

[Name removed]

330. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Every Man A King]

104. So who does the chimp represent genius? n/t

[The Doctor.]

111. It is a commentary on the bill, not necessarily a description of it's authors.

But if you must draw direct comparisons, then I suppose it would represent congress.

If you want to believe it represents Obama, then by all means do so... and we can all be on guard for artists use of non-human primates for the next 8 years.

[Every Man A King]

135. How do you know your interpretation is the authors intention? n/t

[The Doctor.]

148. Of that none of us can be absolutely certain.

The author has been bashing the stimulus bill consistently for a long time. So it stands to reason that his is a direct commentary on the bill.

[bettyellen]

279. no, the cartoon implies that they just shot the author- it clearly refers to a singular writer

who else would that singular person be? everyone is referring to it as Obama's plan- you tell me how it;s not about him.

[ooglymoogly]

393. you are wrong...this bill is so closely identified as O's plan to fix the economy

It is called that by the corpmedia.

[Raineyb]

183. Oh bullshit!

This is the NY Post, it has never missed a chance to show its ugly racist colors. It certainly does not deserve the benefit of the doubt although considering the imagery I would not give anyone the benefit of the doubt on this cartoon.

Frankly, your willingness to jump through hoops to defend them makes me wonder about {b]you.

Regards

[The Doctor.]

270. LOL!

I'm not 'defending' anything, I'm applying reason.

If you don't understand what I'm saying, then wonder is all you will do.

Let me explain a simple test for this episode; Say McCain had become President ( :scared: ), the same chimp was shot, and this, or another artist chose to state his displeasure with a similar stimulus bill exactly the same way.

*POOF*

No racism.

What does this mean? It means that the perception of racism is based entirely on the fact that Obama is President... something completely out of the hands of the artist. It means that suddenly all artists have to screen their work just in case it might be interpreted as racist because Obama is President.

Your 'willingness' to engage in outrage and insinuation tells me that you aren't even qualified to 'wonder about me' Frankly, any such opinion that you might have, knowing nothing about me, and choosing to believe that I'm somehow defending racism, is absolutely worthless.

All I'm saying is that we have to make an assumption, and ignore the author's intent in order to be so certain of mal-intent to indulge in outrage.

Is it racist? There's no way to know for certain whether that was the author's intent. It certainly could have been. But the fact is that one cannot draw a material conclusion.

Since you're in outrage mode, as indicated by your subject line, I sincerely hope this hasn't gone over your head.

[Number23]

277. By your logic, any and all racist imagery assigned to Obama would be voided

If someone hangs up a noose with Obama's name or picture attached, by your logic it can't be racist because what if they'd done the same for McCain??

If someone draws a picture of Michelle Obama looking like a chimpanzee, by your logic it can't be racist because what if they'd done the same for Cindy??

If someone calls the Obama kids "nappy headed hos" (and sadly, that has been done), by your logic it can't be racist because what if they'd done the same thing for Meghan McCain??

Do you see how faulty your logic is? There is a reason that certain imagery is defined as racist. It is because it has historical precedence aimed at members of certain communities. Someone putting up a swastika next to a picture of John McCain has a completely different context than it does if they put it next to Rahm Emmanuel. Someone alluding to internment camps when mentioning John McCain has a completely different context that it does if they mention it when speaking about Daniel Inouye.

And because of the racist overtones that have been well-documented throughout hundreds of years of Western history, using monkey references when speaking about black people will get you into trouble. Every single time.

[bettyellen]

282. by his 'logic" , context doesn't even exist! and the cartonist racist history doesn;t matter...

i think he just admires the plausible deniability aspect.

[ooglymoogly]

394. And therein lies the crux of the matter. nt

[The Doctor.]

283. Just the opposite. First, you aren't even differentiating between 'implicit' and 'explicit'.

"Explicit" are the three examples you gave. Those are certainly explicitly racist when applied to the Obamas, they are also direct regarding the McCains.

"Implicit" regards intention, and in this case, the only way to believe that the artist intended racism is to make an assumption that ignores the more explicit message in the depiction; that the stimulus bill was written by a psychotic chimp. Unlike your three examples, there is no direct reference whatsoever... so the stretch must be made by the reader.

Considering how many people were involved in the bill, it's a stretch to assume he's indicating Obama.
None of your first three examples are even likely if McCain (:scared:) were President... and none of them, in either case, would be making any kind of a point.

This particular cartoon, however, was easily as likely given that all the referential elements are there; A dead chimp and a bad stimulus bill. The only reason to equate it with Obama is because Obama is President. Were McCain President, the message of the cartoon would be clear; "This bill sucks"... and no one would be throwing a fit.

[Number23]

286. The examples I gave could be construed as either implicit or explicit

There will always be those who will try to rationalize what is obvious to many.

[The Doctor.]

287. Ok, you're disqualified.

I'll try again; your examples are direct analogies, metaphors, and depictions.

The NYP toon has no direct reference to Obama at all.

That's the difference, in this case, between 'explicit' and 'implicit'... and it's still a stretch to say that the toon in any way implicates Obama any more than it does either congress or the bill alone. In fact, the reference to the bill is explicit, and it implies that the bill was poorly written.


If you don't know or can't tell the difference between explicit and implicit, then there's no point.

Believe what you will despite the lack of substance.

[Number23]

299. Are you always this nasty or just when you're on the losing side of an argument?

You are the one who is contorting yourself into a damn pretzel trying to defend and find EXPLICIT racist imagery in this cartoon. I'm beginning to understand why you would need things to be so black and white because it appears that your analytic skills are a bit lacking.

The NYP toon has no direct reference to Obama at all.

Don't you find it even the slightest bit odd that you are the ONLY PERSON who feels that way? Who in God's name could that cartoon have been about, if not Obama?

As I stated in an earlier post, there are some who believe that because something may not have been DELIBERATELY created to be racist, that somehow makes it non-racist. That is simply not true. The creator of this cartoon may not have DELIBERATELY set out to make this a racist cartoon, but there is no doubt that it is racially tinged and very racially insensitive. Why? Because Obama is black and throughout history, images of monkeys have been used as a DELIBERATE way to insult black people. You were the one who foolishly imo brought up that this would not be considered racist if the author had drawn this cartoon in response to a McCain bill. I tried to post something other than "no shit" in an effort to be civil, but I see that I'm wasting my time.

Words matter. History matters. You not only refuse to see that, but you've also DELIBERATELY chosen to be nasty as hell because you've (rightfully) gotten your ass handed to you by about 100 different people in this thread. Please don't be angry at the rest of us because we are able to see the forest AND the damned trees.

[Name removed]

333. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Doctor.]

357. Nasty? Hardly. 'Nasty' is when people insinuate you're a racist

because you don't share their narrow interpretation.

You don't know the difference between explicit and implicit and you obviously don't know the difference between 'fact' and 'opinion'.
If you did, then you wouldn't call the fact that the NYP toon has no direct reference to Obama a 'feeling'.
Facts don't give a damn about anyone's feelings, and after I stated a fact, you called it a 'feeling'.

You also don't appear to know the difference between 'winning' and 'losing', because I can hardly 'lose' against someone that can't seem to understand the rules.

You've just tripled-down on your disqualification.

I have not been 'nasty' to anyone, what I've been is factual and rational. The only people who find that 'nasty' are those do consumed by outrage they can't tell the difference between things like 'facts' and 'feelings'.

It's you opinion that it's 'nasty' of me to point out the fact that you are deficient in this exchange, and I never get nasty until someone gets rude first.

So far, you've seen nothing 'nasty' from me except for facts. Other, more rational posters have managed to understand what I've said, but leave it to the rage junkies to see an enemy in anything they can't understand.

'Handed me my ass'... *PFFFT!*... hardly.

[Number23]

362. LOL

What's funnier, or perhaps sadder?? Your insistence that I somehow don't know the difference between explicit and implicit (which is the weakest part of your entire pitiful argument) or your claim that no one has handed you your own ass despite at least 143 posts in this thread that say otherwise???

:rofl:

You sir, are completely dismissed. Your typo riddled posts in which you have the audacity to imply that you are somehow mentally superior to the rest of us are no longer worthy of my time or energy. And the fact that you topped off this entire asinine discussion with the standard "you insinuated that I am a racist!" when I did no such thing has displayed to every poster here what type of person you are. Pathetic.

If you had any sense at all, you would have quit this topic YESTERDAY but it's apparent that you've got attitude in spades, but sense is an entirely different matter altogether.

[The Doctor.]

366. You, a person who can't tell the difference between facts and feelings, are laughing at me?

I'll go you one better;




You've actually demonstrated that you are ignorant of those distinctions. That's the difference between you and I. I can cite examples, link to posts, and paste excerpts... but when I ask people like you to do the same to back up your insinuations about me, you go after my typos. :wtf:

When I deal with global warming deniers, I am also accused of exhibiting 'attitude in spades' because the people I'm dealing with can't get the concept; "Heat=Energy". Yes, when I deal with people so devoid of understanding, I often appear to them to have 'attitude in spades'.

Your attempt at derision in order to stymie me does you no good at all because I have those pesky little things like 'facts' and 'reason' on my side.

You know what the truly sad part is?

You haven't even bothered to try to understand what my point is, instead opting to assume I've said something that justifies your totally misplaced outrage.


I know that this concept is alien to you, but if you had decided to attempt reason and ask questions, you know... be
rational instead of leaping to attack, you, like others, could have understood my point and had a constructive discussion. But you have made your inability to do so a fact, and you have shown that your blind outrage will drive you into and right back out of an argument.

Because the enraged can't deal with the rational. And that is a terrible weakness I'm sorry to see. Plenty of others have put me on 'ignore' because they know that they cannot back up their accusations or justify their attacks. For them, it is easier to ignore me than to admit they cannot, drop the blind rage, and actually discuss a given issue rationally.

You may as well admit you cannot deal rationally either and do the same.

[Raineyb]

340. I don't find your (deliberate?) obtuseness the least bit funny

If McLame had become president the monkey wouldn't have been drawn in the first place and you know this. Your prolific excuse making is more than enough evidence for me to form quite the informed opinion about you. So don't worry, there is no wonder here, you are no better than the racist jackass you defend. I don't know which bubblegum machine you got the piece of paper you got your "doctor" credentials from but it's clear that this entire conversation is completely over your head and I'll leave the schooling to those who have the patience to deal with imbeciles.

I am not that one, so piss off.

Simple enough for ya doc?

[The Doctor.]

361. You're making assumptions you can't support.

The extant factors; a euthanized chimp, a poor economy, and a badly written stimulus bill could easily have precipitated a similar cartoon under McCain.

Saying he wouldn't have done this cartoon if Obama weren't President is a presupposition of racism on the artist's part... by you.

On the other hand, we can actually say with a degree of certainty that no one would be outraged over this same cartoon were McCain (:scared:) in the White House.

I'm always amused when someone without a knack for relatively simple logic calls me an 'imbecile' and starts getting nasty. It says more about your disposition than it does mine. Would you like me to explain what I mean by that?

[Raineyb]

390. There is nothing wrong with my ability to process logic

You are the one who started getting nasty so I return that which you've started. But as per usual your arrogance brought on by your belief that you are intellectually superior, precludes you from considering that you might be wrong. I'll make it real simple for your sorry ass and then I'm done with you. I don't like to waste time arguing with bigots or their sympathizers and you've wasted enough of my time on this topic.

1. Just because you disagree with the vast majority of people on a topic doesn't mean you're a free thinker. Sometimes it just means you're wrong. In this case, you are wrong.

2. You don't get to tell me what is or is not racist. I think I have more experience dealing with veiled (although this cartoon is not remotely veiled) racism than you do. I am sick and tired of jackasses like you who go on and on and on telling me why something that is clearly racist isn't. And as you can't stop yourself there's no need to continue with this.

3. You, as an apologist for racism are as bad as the racist who drew this cartoon. So you and your cartoon drawing, friend can kiss my black ass. I'm done with you. You're a small person trying to make yourself feel like a bigger person by attempting to bully others by pretending to be mentally superior. It's not working.

Piss off little person I'm done with you

[The Doctor.]

398. Please, tell me where I 'Started getting nasty first', and if it is so, you'll have my apologies.

Other than that, I've never 'apologized' for racism, but I've seen plenty of instances where people cried 'wolf'.

My point, the entire time, has been that there is nothing explicitly racist in the cartoon, and it requires an assumption to conclude that it is. Was such the artist's intent? Neither you nor I know for sure.

You have not even attempted to understand my point, so it's quite impossible for me to take anything you have to say seriously.

Like I've said elsewhere, people like yourself seem to do away with reason so that you can feel free to vent your hatred on those who've committed no offense. I would challenge you to excerpt just what I've said that is 'offensive' or an 'apology for racism', but I know darn well that you can't. Instead you'll just say it's in my 'attitude' without even understanding anything that I've said.

I've seen otherwise nice people ruin their own day because they insisted they were being discriminated against when they were not... much to their embarrassment. If you want to see it everywhere then you will see it everywhere. If I didn't know about the chimp shooting, then I would easily conclude the same thing you have, but because I knew about it, like others, it just seemed a reference to current events as most cartoons are.

But you want to be offended so you can be offensive... as you have very well demonstrated. Well, have at it. Opinions based on selective cognition are generally worthless.

[Name removed]

332. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[happy2day]

210. I think that anyone

Who thought this was Obama as soon as they saw the Cartoon has a Racist personality or else the first thought in their head wouldn't have been Obama.
First thing I thought of was that the crazy Chimp that was shot, wrote the Pork filled Stimulus and it is so easy to write a screwed up Package that a Monkey could do it, I never dreamed of "The Cops shot Obama" until I read & heard everyone screaming Racism.

[Raineyb]

269. That is asinine

You don't have to be a racist to know a racist cartoon when you see one. But considering the RW talking points you're using I suppose it would be too asking too much to expect more than this weak sauce argument.

Regards

On edit: ran spellcheck

[Every Man A King]

219. Its a stretch to assume the chimp isn't Obama n/t

[Elderon]

226. Well in my opinion and just an opinion

It's pretty obvious what reaction the author of that cartoon intended to get from his base.

and believe me... it's not a stretch or a reach to find that racially objectionable

Monkey - Stimulus - Obama

yeh... a stretch huh?


Fail

[tomreedtoon]

326. One change could have saved the cartoonist.

If they had made one of the cops black, especially perhaps the shooter, it would have saved the situation. Remember how in South Park how their "racist" flag became non-racist?

This is the racist South Park flag:



And this is the non-racist flag:



But, of course, the New York Post couldn't imagine a black man being a police officer.

[populistdriven]

96. i already have this person on ignored so i was spared

[The Doctor.]

129. Goodness knows what effect reason may have had on you.

:eyes:

[shellgame26]

301. yes, your "reason" as you put it

may have led her to realize without a certainty what a not so closeted racist you are. But Not to worry. Everyone has your number now.

[The Doctor.]

360. Wow.

You really have absolutely no idea, do you?

Here's the key to the truth; Show me exactly what I've said that indicates that I'm a 'closeted racist' to you, and I'll show you how intentionally oblivious to reason you are.

I won't hold my breath.

Meanwhile, I have plenty of friends and ex-lovers that would find your 'closet racist' accusation very amusing.

[shellgame26]

372. Please

spare me the details about your ex-lovers. EVERYTHING you have said on this post indicates that your a TOTAL RACIST.

[The Doctor.]

373. So, you continue to make a claim you can't back up. Whatta shock.

You can't explain how anything I've said is racist, so you resort to the Anne Coulter school of screaming bullshit.

Your opinion is worthless.

[shellgame26]

376. You've already proven that claim yourself

going out of your way to defend something that is so clearly offensive! It's funny that you would mention Ann COulter, she would probably agree with you! Keep on bloviating with your pseudo-intellectual crap and denying the long history of racist propaganda. I'm sure the holocaust didn't really happen in your world either.

[The Doctor.]

378. 1) I haven't 'defended' anything. 2) It's not 'clear.

That's all I've said. There's nothing 'clearly' offensive about this unless you assume the artist intended racism.

That may be the case. Right now, neither you or I know for sure... unless we make the stretch and assume a connection that is not explicitly there.

If the use of simple logic appears 'intellectual' to you, then perhaps it's time to go back to school.

I'll try and remember that if I want to dismiss what someone who knows more than I do is saying, all I need to do is call it 'psuedo-intellectual'.

I'm sure he'll have a good laugh too.

[shellgame26]

381. You have the logic of a 3 year old

"if they did they same thing to Mccain, then that wouldn't be racist"
You are a fool!
For someone who (thinks) he knows so much, you know very little about history. Go and read up on the history of racist propaganda then come back and tell me the cartoon wasn't EXPLICITY racist.

[The Doctor.]

399. That you have to resort to misquoting me is telling.

It tells me that you have no idea what I've said, and instead have superimposed your perception on both the cartoon and this thread.

It's a shame that the 'logic of a three year-old' escapes you.

In history, racist assholes have referred to black people as 'chimps', 'monkeys', 'apes' etc. Also in history, cartoonists have put animals in cartoons... including non-human primates, for purposes other than disparaging people.

Here's what's fascinating about your post;

You have decided, before any other consideration, that this was "done to" Obama. That much is obvious. What your perception filter has created is an absolute presumption of intent... which is why you imagine that this cartoon would be directed at McCain were he President. It can't occur to you, even on the stage of an alternate scenario, that the cartoon represents any other commentary than the one you've decided it must... despite the fact that there is no reference to the President unless you presume intent.

Basically, you made up your mind based on one piece of criteria and only because Obama is President. Everyone, yourself included, is in a heightened state of prejudice because Obama is in office. I can't blame anyone for that, and I'm sure that the 'dogwhistle' theory may hold water. But again; to conclude that the artist's intent was 'racism' requires making presumptions about his intent rather than relying on what's in the depiction. As I say; "Were McCain President, this cartoon would just indicate the artist's distaste for the stim bill." No one would think it was 'done to' McCain.

If what you're saying is that no one can put a non-human primate in any cartoon or commentary for the next eight years, no matter how innocent, simply because Obama is President, then say so and we can discuss that rationally. If you just want to insult and accuse, then feel free. Only one of those choices deserves respect.

Try asking questions if you don't understand what I'm saying, I'll answer them honestly and you will see my intentions are fair and reasonable.

[shellgame26]

401. Are you really this ignorant or just dumb?

"If what you're saying is that no one can put a non-human primate in any cartoon or commentary for the next eight years, no matter how innocent, simply because Obama is President"

Are you suggesting that using racist images is some new phenomenon? For you to even suggest the "innocence" of the cartoon tells me something about your own filtering system.

As for resorting to insults, Your feelings are hurt. boo hoo, Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house.

And since you're obviously not aware, there is a difference between missquoting and paraphrasing.

[The Doctor.]

402. Oh my....

I'm sorry, I really did laugh my ass off there. So when you put your "paraphrase" of my actual words, and put words that aren't mine in quotes as though they were mine, you're not actually misquoting me?

Wow

(BTW; since were on the 'language' subject, 'Miss' Quoting was born in 1832 in Bristol, lived to 18 years and died of pneumonia.

Look, I'll never pretend to be perfect. See... I admit it; "I'm not perfect"... There.

But you've, ummm... kind of obviously misquoted me again because you haven't learned how to read a sentence with commas. I'm not picking on your grammatical failure, I'm pointing out that it showed up because you deliberately removed text from the statement.

That's pretty low. Most people around here got wise to that sort of tactic over the last eight years.

Here's the whole thing; "If what you're saying is that no one can put a non-human primate in any cartoon or commentary for the next eight years, no matter how innocent, simply because Obama is President, then say so and we can discuss that rationally. If you just want to insult and accuse, then feel free. Only one of those choices deserves respect."

But this;
"Are you suggesting that using racist images is some new phenomenon?" - says everything. You saw "Chimp=Racist" because Obama is President, and that was it. As you have been dodging, all the elements were there and easily could have been under a McCain administration. A bad economy, a controversial stim bill, and that chimp was gonna blow one day. Cartoonists always draw upon current events to make a point. Was it tasteful? Ummm... notsomuch. But, as I've stated, and the logic is solid; The only extant factor that makes this appear 'racist', is that Obama is President.

Even HE would agree that regardless of the tastefulness, or lack thereof, of the cartoon, public perception of the intent of the artist is altered by Obama being President.

It's really that simple.

It doesn't mean I don't think it may be racist, but until I know more about the artist and his prior work and attitudes, it's not enough to get out my pitchfork.

Neither you nor anyone can find anything explicitly racist that I've ever excused.

In fact, you'll find just the opposite. But if you're a rage-monger, you'll avoid even trying to back up your asinine opinions.

That's why I find your mindless attacks toothless.

[Name removed]

404. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Doctor.]

407. So you can't answer the questions?

Of course.

Focus on my admittedly sorry sense of humor if you must, but I've asked you a few questions and made a few points... and all you can do is insult and attack my family.

Done with you.

[Raineyb]

391. Lucky you. You didn't miss anything.

This person is literally nothing.

Regards

[whistler162]

252. Don't people refer to a certain ex-President as

the chimp?

[Pool Hall Ace]

331. That is what I was thinking.

Many of us have referred to Bush as the Chimp. Then again, I'm not familiar with this cartoonist's work, and I can't determine whether the intent is racist or not.

[genna]

343. How about the website THE SMIRKING CHIMP?

It is one of the reasons I stayed away from calling W anything in the animal kingdom. I might have slipped and called him a jack ass but I'm not sure about that one.


I stay away from any monkeys, apes, or primordial man because these images of AAs are too deeply held to just throw them out there. I haven't gotten over some of the intra racial terms AAs give/identify each other with, but Rev. Al I am working on it.

[The Doctor.]

369. That had merit...

It was based on his chimp-like disposition.

Referring to Obama as a chimp is unrealistic on every level, and would therefore be quite racist.

The NYP cartoon, however, does not refer to Obama as a chimp unless the reader makes the stretch to interpret it that way.

[Yes We Did]

72. Seriously?

wow.

[traxster]

82. The insinuation is that the bill was so poorly written that it could have been written by monkeys...

And it was written in part, by the first black president. Black people have been referred to as monkeys by ignorant racists. Its not a giant leap to see that they were trying to say something else.

[The Doctor.]

88. If the insinuation that EVERYONE who had a hand in the bill is a 'monkey', then

it's a pretty universal insult. That's not 'racist'.

I call my own children 'my little monkeys', I call all children 'monkeys', does that make me racist?

[traxster]

95. Apples and Oranges.

There are lines you don't cross because of the historical context of it. There is a historical context to blacks being called monkeys by racists. So yes...if you caricature a monkey to represent a black person, then it is far from harmless.

[The Doctor.]

114. But the chimp wasn't "caricatured to represent a black person".

That's you choosing the artist's intent.

The intent is clear; the bills authors sucked.

[traxster]

122. The author of the bill was a black person. The person being shot in the cartoon is a monkey.

Racists people call black people monkeys to degrade them. Yes, I believe the intent of the author was to be controversial and that is what he has done.

[The Doctor.]

127. The bill had many 'authors'.

Perhaps if it was written soley by Obama, there would have been nothing to criticize.

[traxster]

130. And if he had lined up a bunch of monkeys, and labeled them "Congress" then it would have been clear

He did not do that, so now the author has to understand that they were will be some issue. And the mere fact that SO many people see it and its not just an isolated thought should let you know that it is not a far stretch that he has crossed the line.

[The Doctor.]

141. I haven't dismissed the possibility that the author is an asshole.

But I just went through three months of his work and the worst I can say about it is it borders on tasteless sometimes. This one example is not enough to make such a judgment.

The fact that he didn't label the chimp is just as likely because he was commenting more on the character of the bill than on it's authors.

I've seen plenty of racism, and plenty of people seeing it where it is not.

A black man was acting like an asshole in a hospital once. I told him to chill out because he was acting like an asshole. Guess what he called me... 'racist'.

No, I didn't say he was an asshole because he was black, I said it because he was an asshole.

The artist is making a direct commentary on the character of the bill. Perhaps he really is racist and found recent news a convenient baffle, but that still requires looking past the more direct intent.

For the next 8 years, any chimp in a political cartoon is going to set off the 'RACISM!' brigade regardless of intention. That's what we're seeing now.

[genna]

346. We must have argued this point on HuffPo last year

BTW, I think my membership was restored sometime after that.

Dude, just because you have the bad taste in calling your children, family, or your loved ones names like this...barely justifies your belief that other people call people the same names for the same reasons. It seems that you want to exist outside of history. FINE, DO THAT.

For the rest of us who live inside today's context which is steeped in historical memory (that really was a mouthful), your opinion is noted and understood but it is wrong for the nation.

For the comment earlier in thread that discussed a woman calling her black neighbor's children "monkey" or "monkeys" being deserving of that old fashioned whipping she received, probably correct. I don't condone violence for the sake of violence. The town sanctioned the name thrower for being inflammatory. I suggest you rethink your strategy in your neighborhood when you are calling your loved one affectionate names who other people can be offended by. Your love might be mistaken by other people as hate.

One way for cartoonist to avoid the label is to dial down the private love in public places.


Take note: most of this entry was sarcastic for the mere reason that this loved one excuse is so flimsy.

[The Doctor.]

371. ??? That was strange.

What you're saying is that I'm not allowed to affectionately refer to my own kids as monkeys when they're climbing all over me (in case you weren't aware, there's this 'evolution' thing that makes all of us closely related to other primates) as 'monkeys' because some in society will deliberately decide that I'm insulting them.

Yes, that is your point. I get it. "We in society must be careful of what we say because someone could choose to interpret it as an insult."

I used to do this thing for kicks when I was younger; someone would say something, anything, like; "I just got a new blender today!", and I'd suddenly become sad and morbid and mourn; "I watched my brother lose his hand in a blender when we were kids.". The speaker would suddenly feel guilty and apologize for bringing up her new blender. Then, after an interminable few seconds, I'd say, "nah... just pulling your leg.".

Try it sometime, if you sell it, it works every time.

The point?

If we decided that we had to censor our speech because someone might choose to interpret any given thing we said as an attack, we would be a silent society.

I call children 'monkeys' sometimes, because they sometimes act like monkeys, not because they're black. Being 'colorblind' might get me in trouble sometimes because I treat everyone the way I treat anyone. If every time I opened my mouth I had to consider my audience and screen what I said 'just in case' it might offend someone, then I would be deferring to color, wouldn't I? That wouldn't be colorblind, would it?

[olkaz]

102. Exactly.

Now I'm going to sit back and watch while everyone bloviates.

[The Doctor.]

118. You know what?

Me too.

There's no way to reason with witch hunters anyhow.

[bullwinkle428]

178. Well, "Doctor", at least you're consistent - both racism and homophobia

are pretty much non-existent these days, according to you.

[The Doctor.]

359. Why lie?

Oh, I know why... you can't hate or be outraged without ignoring the substance of what I've said.

Show me where I EVER said anything about racism or homophobia being 'non-existent'.

You can't.

I really get sick of pointing out how not one of you outrage junkies can back up your twisted opinions of me. Don't think I should call you that? Then stop lying, back up your claims, and start using rational dialogue.

If you can't do that, then the shoe fits.

[CLANG]

222. Well, then who was the monkey supposed to remind us of?

[The Doctor.]

375. The Chimp that was shot the other day. It's been all over the news.

If I didn't know about that incident, I'd think the same thing you did.

[JayMusgrove]

262. So, how many Republcians were shot in the NY Post in the last 8 years?

in cartoons?
Give me a list of them. Even any that were portrayed as human beings?

Oh wait, those were Republicans. None of them were shot in cartoons.

[ooglymoogly]

263. The clear and irrefutable evil in this unsigned "cartoon"

is that Obama and black folks in general are monkeys. I see no insinuation whatsoever in this cartoon that it was an attempt to say the bill was poorly written; How you can minimize the malevolence of this pile of elephant crap is beyond me. The "bill" is the identification marker to Obama and that pugs do not like the bill and this cartoon is a cracker kind of justice that only someone as sick as a ku klux clan member would try to pass off as humor. What; They thought a monkey hanging by the neck from a tree might be to disgusting for folks to handle with that ridiculous caption?

[The Doctor.]

377. Huh... I've 'minimized' nothing. Here's what's fascinating to me;

You say that you "see no insinuation whatsoever in this cartoon that it was an attempt to say the bill was poorly written", yet the cop clearly and directly indicates that the bill was written by a psychotic chimp. If you can't see how that is commenting on the bill, then perhaps you should think it through again.

If a student turned in a paper, and I asked him 'Why'd you have a chimp write this?", the insinuation is very clear. If the student thinks I'm telling him I thought a black student wrote it, then that student should examine his perspective.

LOTS of people don't like the bill... especially the artist. That doesn't mean that mentioning the bill is any direct reference to Obama. If you have something that makes the case besides supposition, then I'm all ears. I'm just not convinced one way or the other whether all the screaming rage is justified.

I'm guessing you made up your mind about this before you knew about the chimp shooting the other day too?

[ooglymoogly]

392. The clear indication is not that the bill was written poorly

whether or not it was; The insinuation was correctly identified in your later paragraphs as something the pugs do not like period, no matter how it was written. But now we are delving into the pug mind of the cartoonist. The fact that it was clear to any honest editor that the cartoon was, in the least, offensive to most people and especially to blacks; Editors who should have squelched the cartoon even on the ambiguousness alone. That we have called B*sh a chimp all these years is a red herring; He is white and there is no mistake implied or otherwise as to the meaning of that humor. Blacks have for over a century been cartooned as monkeys; O is black and this bill is considered by most to be his doing, so the whole effect of the cartoon is plain pug malice no matter what cover story they contrive. Yes I did write the post before I learned or connected it to the chimp shooting but still hold that the cartoon was offensive on too many levels to ever have been published.

[The Doctor.]

400. I understand. That brings us to the next point.

Saying that something appears to be written by a psychotic chimp is a commentary on both the bill and its authors. That's a fairly simple and obvious fact.

If we can agree on that, we can get to the next point.

Is it possible the author meant to single out Obama? Sure, but it's also a simple fact that there is no direct reference to him in the cartoon. If it weren't for the shooting that occurred earlier in the week, then the indirect reference would be fairly obvious. The next question is; did the artist knowingly use the incident to deliberately make such an inference?

The fact is, we don't know. As I've said before; if there is evidence this guy's a racist asshole, then I'll certainly agree that was his intent. I personally went through a couple months of his work, from December to February, and didn't find anything that seemed even remotely racist. That's by no means definitive though.

It's quite possible that he, like all political cartoonists, used a current event to make a point. Had the victim been a pig (perfectly representative of the bill's authors), the point would have been much better, but 'psychotic chimp' is a fairly harsh commentary on the nature of the bill and its authors as well.

Those questions may not be answered, but perhaps time will tell more about this person.

Meanwhile, an interesting question comes out of all of this; "Must all artists, columnists, and commentators carefully screen their depictions for words or images that could be construed as 'racist', no matter how otherwise innocent they are, simply because Barack Obama is President?"

[ooglymoogly]

405. Hmmmm...posing an argument....The dilemma then is; Are we now

to limit our "humor" to safe subjects as regards to blacks? My reply to that is; That blacks have suffered enough at the hands of cracker cartoonists and that such ambiguous cartoons as this one is in spades; Should be, at the very least, screened to weed out most obvious and careless, hypocritical insults, whether real or so easily perceived; To blacks who more than and always have carried their weight in our society, like many of our other parts, have made it something far grander than it would have been without them and all of us pulling together. For that we owe them, at the very least our respect and gladness that they are an integral and indispensable part of us and a part of that which makes this country great; Despite B*sh and his disastrous and criminal ilk tearing at the very fabric of our republic.

[The Doctor.]

409. Now there's a brilliant piece of prose... for all its breathlessness and grit.

Absolutely.

It's late, and this deserves a more thoughtful response. Looking forward to responding after sleep.

[rhett o rick]

264. Yeah right, those that are offended shouldn't be. Give me a break. nm

[October]

327. Well the "murder" aspect is chilling

Especially when combined with the wording. I was confused, and asked myself "Ok, who wrote the plan, and why are the cops killing him"? It's a poor editorial cartoon, and fails because it's not clear. I later read of the chimp attack, but then the cartoon makes less sense.

It's offensive before you even consider the racial aspect.

[Rockholm]

147. I don't get it either.

And sorry, I don't go looking for hidden meanings in everything I see.

[bdamomma]

4. oh crap that is NOT FUNNY at all.

and saying "Sorry" is not going to cut it either. The person who did this should be terminated.

[Optical.Catalyst]

324. There is no humor in that cartoon.

It lacks humor on so many levels.

It is simply deplorable.

[Optical.Catalyst]

325. Oops, duplicate

[pleah]

5. I can't believe they ran that in the paper!

That is blatantly racist, imo!

Go get'em Al!

[skooooo]

11. Not only racist..

..but treasonous, imo.

[BlooInBloo]

23. Yah - I thought "just joking" about killing the President was NOT a defense?

[The Doctor.]

45. That's not supposed to represent the President.

The point is that the stimulus bill was written as though by an enraged chimp.

Or are we saying that for the next eight years, no one will be allowed to put any primates other than humans in political cartoons?

[BlooInBloo]

49. Thank you for proving my prediction correct.

[The Doctor.]

56. What do you mean?

How is the chimp supposed to represent the President?

Seriously... are you saying that no artist can put a primate other than humans in a political cartoon for the next eight years regardless of intentions?

This is not deliberately racist if one makes an effort to understand it rather than fixating on the fact that there's a chimp in it.

[Elderon]

229. Well

The insight you have on the author of this Cartoon is amazing.

You literally know exactly how his mind functions!!

Kudos!

[The Doctor.]

374. Actually, you have that exactly backwards.

All I've been saying all along is that we don't know... that I don't know, and that you don't know 'exactly how his mind functions'.

The folks, like you I presume, who have decided the artist is racist despite the relevance of the imagery and no direct connection to Obama are the ones who assume they know the author's intentions.

It's really something to watch people twist and invert logic to support their assumptions. Are you another such person?

[Elderon]

396. Sure

Are you not playing the same game as I?

Look into the Mirror Doc

[The Doctor.]

397. I'm playing no games.

I'll admit that this really is a fascinating study in perception. People seeking the catharsis of directed rage will see much that is not there. This may be worthy of a paper.

[skooooo]

67. People can and will interpret it different ways....

...despite your "clarification."

[The Doctor.]

80. People can interpret it however they like, but

they have to ignore the intended message of the cartoon and read into it in order to arrive at the conclusion that it was deliberately racist.

Like I said; If it were a rabid dog that was shot the other day, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Now we get to spend the next eight years decrying every instance of a primate not human in a political cartoon... no matter how innocent it may be.

People who want to be outraged will always find an excuse to be.

[Spazito]

89. And people who choose to be blind to racism always find an excuse to say they...

aren't blind, everyone else is overreacting, 'Nothing to see here, move along'.

[The Doctor.]

105. Then, like I've asked before... how is it racist? Simply because there's a chimp?

That makes all zoos racist. They lock up their chimps, that means they think all black people should be locked up!

-Same stretch you have to make to see this is racist.


I've seen too many people actually overreact to perceived racism to think all such claims are valid.

One such incident involved a group of ladies who came into a restaurant I worked at years ago. Two of them ordered the special, Chicken, extra crispy. It was pretty popular that day, and preparing it took an extra ten to fifteen minutes. One of the ladies became very upset when she was told she'd have to wait, and started insinuating that the restaurant was 'racist'. After my manager tried to mollify them, the one lady convinced her friends to get up and leave. Her outrage would not be placated.

As they stood up, their waitress brought the lunch special, chicken, extra crispy, to a gentleman at the table right next to them who had been waiting patiently while the others at his table were already eating. "Here you are, thank you so much for waiting... is there anything else I can get you?"

The ladies left... not a little embarrassed.

The point is that when people see 'racism' or bigotry where it is not, they show a narrow-mindedness, an unwillingness to see another perspective. Sometimes a visual cue, like a chimp, overwhelms perception by virtue of it's possible implications, and the simpler, less insidious message is discarded.

That has clearly happened here.


I know I can't reason with outrage.

[Spazito]

110. Please provide me with examples of chimps 'writing stimulus bills'...

and I will agree this was not grotesquely and knowingly racist. I will look forward to your evidence.

[The Doctor.]

126. That makes no logical sense.

The point is simple; 'The bill was written as though by a crazy chimp'.

Like I said, I call my kids 'monkeys' all the time, how does that make me racist?

[Spazito]

131. LOL, you do seem to have a vested interest in defending this...

interesting. My post made perfect sense given your pathetic attempts to whitewash what is clearly a racist cartoon.

As to what you call your kids, it has NOTHING to do with the subject at hand, nice try though.

Please carry on defending the indefensible, the hole you are digging just keeps getting deeper.

[The Doctor.]

155. There's nothing 'clearly racist' about saying a monkey wrote the bill

because many people wrote the bill.

Like I said, I call all children monkeys... how does that make me racist?

As for 'defending' anything... I'm not. I'm just pointing out that in order to see racism here, one has to make assumptions. Whether those assumptions are correct or not cannot be determined merely from this cartoon.

The clearest message in the cartoon is that the bill sucked. I'll go with that message rather than make an ass of myself by drawing conclusions based on a subjective interpretation. Nor will I contribute to the artist's popularity the way people in this thread seem determined to do.

I think that it's quite possible that the author isn't racist, but found a perfect way to push people's buttons and raise his stock.

I don't let people push my buttons the way that some here do until the crime is substantial. The assumption being made is not... that is the nature of assumption.

As for those who think I'm somehow 'racist' for pointing these things out, their opinions are of no value because those are derived from assumptions and outrage.

So rage away.

[cliffordu]

139. Well....

Every cartoonist working understands that black people have been portrayed as monkeys in cartoons for a couple of hundred years in this country.

Your entire stance can be exposed for the flaccid pseudo-intellectual pap it is with a visit to the Museum of Tolerance.

:hurts:

[The Doctor.]

142. ???

Right, so no chimps are allowed in political cartoons for the next 8 years because it's automatically a racist reference to Obama regardless of context. :eyes:

[Number23]

281. "flaccid pseudo-intellectual pap"

Oh SH*T!! Ladies and gents, may I present the phrase of the decade! :rofl:

That was awesome. :)

[cliffordu]

317. THANKYOUVERYMUCH......I'll be here all week,

please be sure to tip your wait person......

[The Doctor.]

379. Wow... that's like calling a dislike for bee stings 'cognitive dissonance'.

You have no idea what you're even saying.

Maybe if, instead of just tossing out insults, you actually tried to rationally dispute what I've said, or at least understand it, you'd have some credibility.

At this point your opinion, and that of the one who can't tell the difference between 'facts' and 'feelings', is completely worthless.

[BlooInBloo]

414. Very nice.

[Politicalboi]

235. He never would have drawn the cartoon

Had it been a dog. It's only because it was a monkey that he did it. He took the opportunity to get himself that 15 minutes of fame. I hope it backfires big time for him. I know the NY Post won't fire him.

[pleah]

79. I agree!

I am truly shocked.

[Pirate Smile]

6. OMG. They actually ran that?

:wow:

[AllieB]

7. This is outrageous.

Who was the editor that allowed that to be printed? His ass should be fired immediately.

[n2doc]

8. Why is this kind of racist crap even published?

What is the Post, some kind of time warped rag from the 1920's?

[kimmylavin]

38. Yeah, pretty much.

Its just about a step back from the Enquirer.

[The Doctor.]

48. An exercise; "How is it racist?"

[n2doc]

61. ok, slowly now

Who is responsible for the last stimulus plan- Obama. How have blacks been characterized in the past- As Monkeys. The implication in the cartoon is that a monkey wrote the last stimulus plan.

[The Doctor.]

75. Obama didn't write the bill.

You assume that because it's a chimp, then it must represent Obama. The reason for the chimp is that it's top news.

If it was a rabid dog that was shot the other day, and the artist used the dog, explain how that would be racist?

Certainly there are racist assholes that compare black people to chimps, does that mean that every depiction of a chimp is racism?

Of course not.

Is it possible that was the artist's intent? Sure, but it's not likely when held up against the more logical analogy; "The stimulus bill sucks, it's as though an enraged chimp wrote it."

Now there are a bunch of people making fools of themselves because they deliberately perceive what is not necessarily there. I know that now I'm to be called a racist because I don't automatically join in on the grouprage, but that's the price of perspective, I guess.

[vaberella]

90. Keep in mind the media and Obama has said it's HIS own.

There is no wanting to see something. Second of all the Post has done stuff like this in the past. This is nothing new of them. And you continuously defend their act when they are blatantly implying something. They could have have taken anything not a chimp since I've never heard of that analogy. Second, again this is very typical of The Post and they've been called on it before...but always there are people who defend their actions as though it's a-okay.

[The Doctor.]

162. Lol! Well, I never said it was 'a-ok'.

All I'm saying is that the simple message is that the bill sucked. The term 'a monkey could do it' has no racist connotations. The cartoon obviously says 'a monkey did it'. (yes... chimp, same thing)

Did the artist have an ulterior motive?

I don't know. That's the point... one has to reach, to make assumptions in order to come to that conclusion.

[hileeopnyn8d]

98. "Obama didn't write the bill"

You know, you can say that over and over again, but the fact remains that EVERYONE associates this bill with him.

Republican politicians have repeatedly whined about how "he" wasn't being bi-partisan, how the bill came from or was written by the "White House" aka President Obama, how it had all of "his" pet projects in it. He went on television, to townhalls around the country, all in an effort to promote "his" stimulus bill.

You can say we're not being logical, but I think you are very, very mistaken as to who that chimp is meant to represent.

I do believe what you've presented will be the excuse given by the newspaper, but that doesn't make the cartoon any less disgusting.

The shooting alone makes it abhorrent.

[greguganus]

163. One problem is not everyone who saw this cartoon knows about the shot chimp story.

I didn't hear about the shot chimp story. Maybe if I had, I would have thought different of this cartoon, maybe not.

[The Doctor.]

204. Right, that's the funny thing about perception. It also depends on which one is exposed to first...

I suppose if I knew nothing about the chimp story, I'd be scratching my head wondering why this guy was so blatantly racist. Many people, after they've formulated their opinion can't revise it very easily.

Good point.

[Hansel]

265. Actually, knowing about the chimp story makes me scratch my head even more.

There is a woman in the hospital with her face and hands half eaten off as a result of the chimp. I'm scratching my head as to how the "cartoonist" would think taking a symbol from this tragic event and inserting it into some completely unrelated political statement was supposed to be humorous.

Why not use the plane crash in Buffalo? Wouldn't that have been 50 times as funny? :sarcasm:

The cartoon is not funny in any way. And the cartoonist knows his audience.

[The Doctor.]

267. Oh, I agree, there's very little 'humor' in the piece.

The simple point- 'the stimulus package sucks' barely warranted the depiction.

[FatDave]

191. The word "niggardly" isn't racist either.

But you'd better be damn careful how you use it. If you were to tell a black person "quit being so niggardly", could they not reasonably assume you were trying to start something?

I'm leaning towards this being innocent (having found out about the escaped monkey story, which provides the much needed context) but I'm still not convinced the artist wasn't trying to carry the analogy farther. But he's got plausible deniability, so his ass is covered regardless. Nothing to do but shake my head and move on.

[shellgame26]

304. Of course

Because in your world Blacks are all semi-literates who couldn't possibly know the meaning of "niggardly".

[last_texas_dem]

312. Or maybe he's just making the reasonable assumption that most people

of all races don't know the meaning of the word "niggardly," but that black people would have more reason to be offended than those of other races by being called a word that sounds like the n-word?

:shrug:

[FatDave]

338. Wow, that's quite an assumption you jumped to there.

I'm saying nothing at all regarding literacy. I'm saying that it could be used, because of being a near homonym to the most racist word in our language, as a way to poke at a person of color and deny you were doing it.

Pretend for a moment I'm black. I've got a good vocabulary, including the word "niggardly", which I know should have no racial overtones whatsoever. I'm at a store with a white acquaintance. Maybe somebody I work with. As I'm being checked out, I complain to the cashier about a recent 1 cent raise in sales tax. The guy I'm with says, "Jeez, Dave, don't be so niggardly."

Now, why did he use a vernacularly obscure word that closely resembles the big daddy of racial slurs? Why not miserly? Why not something much more common, like stingy, or cheap? These all mean basically the same thing, but he chose to use a word that' pretty rare in modern English (probably because of it's similarity to that other word). Would I not be justified in considering that it was probably a passive-aggressive (emphasis on the aggressive) attack?

That's all I'm saying.

[shellgame26]

339. O.k I'll give you that 'bro

Having taught school in Ny it is rare to find a young person possessing much of a Dickensian lexicon. But it's a sad statement on public education for sure.
BUt what the hell, it's a weird-ass word any way you look at it!

[fascisthunter]

241. ask Ruppert Murdoch

[Demi_Babe]

9. you have go to be kidding me...this actually ran? SICK!

[dcindian]

71. A quick run through his political cartoons shows ya what he is all about.

Opps

[The Doctor.]

123. That would be telling.

[dcindian]

74. A quick run through his political cartoons shows you what he is like.

another opps.

[Thrill]

10. Its hard to imagine. Anyone would think this was a smart thing to run

[Raineyb]

185. Well it is the NY Post which may as well be a subsidiary of Faux News.

This rag has been this way for years. Unfortunately, I am not surprised.

Regards

[Justitia]

216. Yup, tabloid Rupert Murdoch at his finest - yuck. -eom

[BlooInBloo]

12. Whoa. Hardcore.

[Aloha Spirit]

13. There was that chimpanzee that was taken down yesterday...

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jvlkKth37Fp__GL6KYdl2b1s6dBgD96E1APG0

[BlooInBloo]

14. Yup. I assume that'll be their "benefit of the doubt" line, that white folks will use...

to excuse this.

[CatWoman]

16. yes, but what does that chimpanzee have to do with writing a stimulus bill?

the chimp that was killed yesterday didn't run in political circles, if I'm not mistaken.

[babylonsister]

18. Exactly. Absolutely nothing. nt

[BlooInBloo]

20. Nothing. And everybody knows it.

[Aloha Spirit]

21. You are correct. Only someone with a twisted mind would be able to decipher its meaning.

[high density]

37. Person who wrote the bill = Xanax Chimp

Which I guess is Nancy Pelosi?

[The Doctor.]

51. You realize that comparing Pelosi to an enraged chimp is racist, right?

I don't know how... but I'm sure it is.

[The Doctor.]

50. The insinuation is that it was a bad bill.

Would it be racist to say; "This bill looks like it was written by an enraged chimpanzee."?

[CatWoman]

99. question: what kind of "doctor" are you?

I think I want a second opinion.

[Spazito]

101. LOL!

:thumbsup:

[AspenRose]

103. Oooh, snap

:rofl:

[The Doctor.]

121. The kind that doesn't give in to grouprage.

And it's apparent you only want one opinion on this issue... the one that reaffirms your perspective. In that case, no Doctor can help you.

[readmoreoften]

221. No, you just give in to 'group racism and homophobia'. You're a real "individual."

:eyes:

You can also be skeptical that 2+2=4, that doesn't make you a critical thinker.

[Name removed]

175. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[stlsaxman]

249. I think they call them "turkey doctors"- you know, the kind that would flay the skin off living...

humans because the freshest ones make the best lampshades and descendants of David better till.

[rhett o rick]

305. Yes, and all those that are offended should be ashamed of themselves. nm

[bdamomma]

15. ok now let's bombard them with e-mails.

http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/postopinion.htm

I just sent my e-mail.

[sarge43]

41. FWIW, this is my letter

"Stimulus 'cartoon'

In case you were asleep during all your American history classes, portraying African-Americans as primates was a common habit of racists and, it seems, still is.

It doesn't take an advanced degree in astrophysics to figure out the connotation.

Have you no shame, at long last sir, have you no shame?"

[bdamomma]

52. great letter we need more,

[sarge43]

60. Thanks. I'm sorry I missed the assassination implication.

The MiBs should pay the editor a visit. They rousted a high school kid for an online silly picture of Bush. Editor should get minimum a "We're not amused" warning.

[bdamomma]

115. that is very sad the implication of assassination.

[shellgame26]

306. Get a list of all the ads posted in the NY Post today

and send them emails too.

[billyoc]

17. Rupert Murdoch at his best.

:puke:

[Renew Deal]

36. I doubt he would approve this.

He knows better and likes his powerful friends. It's the idiotic cartoonist and editors that are responsible.

[billyoc]

46. Watch and see if anyone is punished for this.

I promise you, Murdoch will do nothing about it.

[Justitia]

217. I agree. This is pure Murdoch. -eom

[Connie_Corleone]

19. WTF??

[ellacott]

22. I was about to post this

I also heard it on Tom Joyner this morning. This is inexcusable

[CatWoman]

26. link to Al's site (which I forgot to put in the OP)

http://www.nationalactionnetwork.net/

[mystieus]

25. Some would look at this as a death threat to our president.

[uponit7771]

59. Yeap, "wrote" the stimulus bill...

[Billsmile]

233. On the page before the cartoon...

Is a giant half page photo of President Obama signing the stimulus bill.

[catgirl]

106. I agree

This strong suggestion equals a threat. This is upsetting and shocking. They should be shut
down.

[marylanddem]

27. unfuckingbelievable.

it is both racist & treasonous (assassination implication)

[tekisui]

28. Kick their ass, Reverend. That is unacceptable.

[TheCowsCameHome]

29. New York Post - what else is there to know?

Did anyone expect something different?

[Mira]

31. K&R while choking on vomit

[Jennicut]

32. This actually happened in Stamford,CT

I live about an hour away from there. It was a sad story. Apparently the chimp was out of control (he was a pet) and a neighbor tried to help. She got mauled and is in critical condition at a nearby hospital. The police had to shoot it. This "cartoon" is disgusting.

[Tatiana]

33. So a "chimp" wrote the stimulus bill? This is unacceptable.

The assumption drawn is that our President is a chimp. This is outrageous!

And I wonder how many cartoons like this ran we really did have a pResident that looked like a chimp in office...

[Renew Deal]

35. This is going to get ugly

I'd say that's pretty overtly racist.

[The_Commonist]

39. There's another layer to this story that y'all are missing.

It's not just some random comparing black people to chimps cartoon.
There was a BIG story here in New York yesterday and the day before about a pet chimp that went nuts and the police had to shoot it.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,494067,00.html

Of course, that gave this cartoonist the "excuse" to compare black people to chimps, but it's not just totally out of the blue...

[CatWoman]

44. you're certainly late to the party

you need to scroll up

[ecstatic]

63. sorry. not following your logic

There's no connection between a chimp running wild in NY, black people, and the author of the stimulus bill.

[sarge43]

91. Recommend you google Obama's name, then go to Images,

then count the number of pictures portraying him as a chimp or monkey. If you have the stomach for it, then go to the sites using those pictures.

[vaberella]

117. Remember that stuffed animal that was being sold during the Primaries?!

Same bullshit.

[demokatgurrl]

73. I- and I'm sure most of the others here- KNEW about that story

that doesn't excuse it or modify it or lessen it or diminish the hatefulness of it in any way.
Opportunistic racist hatred is still racist hatred.:grr:

[hileeopnyn8d]

108. "Opportunistic racist hatred is still racist hatred. "

Exactly. Perfectly stated.

[yellerpup]

40. Disgusting!

Al Sharpton knows how to apply pressure and organize. Nails in the coffin (I fervently hope) for the Murdock-owned NY Post. Take 'em down, Al!

[LaurenG]

43. Why would someone even draw something so awful?

Why? :cry:

edit: left out a word

[babylonsister]

53. And to make matters worse, the asshole media is showing it often.

No discretion whatsoever. No surprise.

[bdamomma]

55. our media should be our next target of kicking them to the curb.

[uponit7771]

57. WTF?!?!? NY Post!? I thought it was Skin Head rag or something!! This is crazy

[ecstatic]

58. complete and total racist bullshit

:mad:

[vaberella]

62. A-typical of The Post....they are of the Hannity/Limbaugh supporters. n/t

[demokatgurrl]

64. Oh my god, that is disgusting.

I cannot believe it. I hope Sharpton rips someone a new one.

[Fire1]

65. How could anyone in all good conscience think this is 'funny' in

any way, shape or form. This is sick! Which brings to mind all the past posts and threads depicting Sharpton and Jackson, as well, as 'publicity seekers.' To those, I say, NOW, you see, WHY THEY ARE NEEDED!!!!!

[vaberella]

68. I always wanted to know who read the Post I found out it was the Housewives of NY.

I've always thought Al was needed. This is the Post I'm surprised by the surprise of the actions. They've done stuff like this before. They're notorious in New York.

[newview88]

66. Wow....i'm in shock.

Who the heck thought this would be amusing??

[acmavm]

230. Exactly. This is one of those things that you can only take one way. Why

would any 'media' face this kind of bad publicity?

[Brewman_Jax]

70. If not Sharpton

maybe a visit from the Secret Service will wake them up. Threats against senior federal officials are illegal.

[Spazito]

77. Geez, that is both grotesquely racist and, imo, an implied threat to the President...

I am sickened by those who, in this thread, have defended this as innocuous and having no connection to President Obama, thankfully they are VERY FEW.

[Laelth]

157. Agreed. n/t

-Laelth

[dcindian]

78. The Post knows full well what kind of cartoonist he is and what he meant.

He is one twisted and sick racist. And an anti Democrat to boot no doubt in my mind what he meant by it.

http://www.nypost.com/delonas/delonas.htm

Be sure to hold your nose when viewing.

[AspenRose]

81. Sharpton shouldn't be the only one raising hell about it

There should be some prominent and very vocal white Obama supporters raising hell too. Otherwise the media will paint it as only black folks being upset (and therefore they can be ignored because they're "sensitive" about it.) For good or for ill, when white folks are vocal about racism and race-baiting, people listen. When black folks do it, they're playing a "race card." This type of stuff is only seen as inappropriate by the dominant culture when whites condemn it as strongly as blacks.

And personally I hope the cartoonist gets a visit from the Secret Service

[Fire1]

85. You're absolutely right on that one!

[bdamomma]

113. exactly, not only Black prominent figures should be weighing in on this.

and the Secret Service should pay a little visit, this cartoon is totally shameful, and I do not want to hear the same "sorry" stuff, this is no silly situation, and has a number of treasonous and racial overtones.

[salinen]

83. I'm sick of gallows humor

That chimp should not have been shot to death. And birds filling the engines
of passenger jets should not become humor either. Has comedy become the offensive
weapon that has no deterrent? The "I was only joking" confessional. Yuck.

[Wednesdays]

87. This is what the opposition is reduced to

Expect more of the same for many years to come. :puke:

[Starry Messenger]

94. That is scary and disgusting.

That's like something straight off of Stormfront. And yes, I know about the news-story with the zoo. This fails on so many levels and should never have been published. Sharpton's statement is awesome. I hope there is more than just "clarification" coming out of this.

[BklynChick]

100. fuck the NY Post and all the assholes who associate themselves with it.

[OnionPatch]

107. I'm sorry but this is the most racist thing I have seen in print in a long time.

And yes, I read the story about the real chimp who had to be shot. The insinuation here is that there is something in common with the chimp and the person who wrote the stimulus bill. It's disgusting.

[MellowDem]

109. Calling Bush "chimpie" for 8 years hasn't helped...

We on the left have been using this racially charged term against Bush in the exact same way and with the exact same meanings that it used to be used to describe black people. The whole reason chimpie has the meaning and the weight of insult behind it is racial history. Few probably realize it when they describe Bush as a monkey, but they were just perpetuating an insult that was born out of racism. And the cartoons which depicted him as a monkey could have been taken right out of a KKK manuel, just shade his face black. I was always uncomfortable with the comparison, and now you see why. I think that we, as progressives, should not adopt insults born of racism, there are much more accurate and creative insults to choose from.

[babylonsister]

116. I don't even understand your post.

Bush was white. How does calling him 'chimp' connote racism? :shrug:

[CatWoman]

124. besides that

Bush ACTUALLY LOOKS LIKE A FUCKING MONKEY!!!

[bdamomma]

138. ..................

yes indeed he did catwoman!!!

[MellowDem]

137. It doesn't

But the whole reason calling him a 'chimp' was an insult in the first place was because it used to be used to describe blacks in the same ways many people described Bush. 'Chimp' became an insult through racism. That's where it's power was derived from. Using it to describe even a white person using the same meaning it had to deride black people perpetuates its racial meaning. It's not racism, but it's taking an historically anti-black term being kept alive by applying it to a white person with the exact same meaning it had in history.

[genna]

350. That is how I felt about the term when I heard it applied to Bush too.

I just felt kind of queasy about it. It was like should I do that uncomfortable laugh or should I scold someone for saying that?

If you want to say Bush was dumb as rocks, I did, fine (it is uncivil to say but if you believe it fine). To say he's an animal (again with the honest admission to having called him a jack ass), it is more than simple incivility...it's pushing discourse away from democratic standards. It's another reason I try not to call Republicans anything other than Republicans. Once you sink to blatant name calling, then you are not far from fisticuffs.

I think one ideal in democracy is agreeing to live by our disagreements without warring in a Civil War.

[bunnies]

120. heh

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[Spazito]

152. There is a world of difference in depicting a privileged white man as a chimp...

and doing the same to a black man. There is NO history of racially stereotyping white people as chimps, none whatsoever.

Please read this, you may see why there is legitimate outrage on the cartoon in the OP as opposed to there being none when George Bush, a privileged white man was depicted that way.

http://www.miller-mccune.com/article/studies-expose-%E2%80%98apelike-stereotype-among-whites

[MellowDem]

165. There is and there isn't...

There is not the same history for whites, you are right. But when you take the "ape" steryotype from it's racist past and apply it without any real change, besides the fact that it is now against a white man, what you are doing is borrowing an insult that was born of racism and derives its power as an insult from racism in the past.

Though I must also say that there is SOME history of whites being associated with monkeys racially. For example the Irish. However, it was so long ago that few remembered it when they saw similar insults directed at Bush. And of course, the Irish were not considered "white". But I think it just reinforces my point that the ape in America was transformed into a racial insult. So when we use it, we should at least realize why "chimp" is even considered an insult in the first place. Past racism.

I read the article, and while interesting, I didn't find it very convincing. I think a lot more studies have to be done on it (though personally I hope not, it seems like a waste of time and money). I think that the study suffers from some pre-drawn conclusions. The whole reason they started the study was because some parent called a child a little monkey? Hell, my parents called me a monkey as a kid. And then there is that song with monkeys jumping on the bed. Basically, I think they are thinking they see things that aren't there. What was probably the most shocking to me is that in one study they said only 9% of the test subjects were aware of the past racial steryotype of apes and blacks. That seems impossible to me and signifies the small sample size and large error probably inherent in their studies. Some of their experiments also don't seem to say anything. Priming viewers with black faces then showing them an ape might just signify that the color black is more identified with apes, who usually have dark fur, than the color white. Really, I don't think you can draw any real scientific conclusions from such a silly test. And they also never say whether the non-white students reacted compared to white students. Like I said, I think they are testing to their expectations.

As for this cartoon, considering it is from a conservative paper, there may be a veiled jab at Obama racially, which I find shocking in this day and age when such things are publicized and denounced. It just seems stupid that they would try something so blatent. I think it is insensitive and ignores certain histories, but like I said, so has much of the Left been for 8 years with Bush. It has become commonplace to compare the President to a monkey, so those with less knowledge of racial history will see no problem continuing the trend.

[Spazito]

173. I found the study to be quite reflective of my life experiences and the racism..

I have seen around me. Being caucasian, I have not been the victim of racism but loved ones and dear friends certainly have.

When parents (whatever their skin color) refer to their children as "monkeys" it is in reference to their activities, ie bouncing on the bed, climbing on the furniture, etc, not reflective of their skin color, racial heritage.

Bush had definitive facial features and his walking style with his arms out in a way that was reminiscent of a chimp, imo,which was what cartoonists were reflecting. I think you will find that Bush was always depicted as a white chimp. Had he been depicted as a black chimp, I would find your argument more compelling.

[blisteringcold]

189. Makes no sense

It's not racist to call a white man a chimp. That's like calling a black man a cracker. It's more comical than anything.

[MellowDem]

193. I don't think it's racist...

but it is derived from racist terminology. And while it is comical to call a black man a cracker, that's because cracker really doesn't have much meaning as an insult for whites compared to calling a black man an ape. That's why calling Bush a chimp wasn't done for comedy as much as an insult. It's insulting because of its racist meaning for blacks. That's where the power of the word comes from. If it hadn't been for that history, "chimp" wouldn't be much of an insult today.

By calling Bush a "chimp", implying he was less than human, stupid, a beast, etc., we were imitating exactly what that word meant when it was applied to blacks. And imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Let's not flatter ourselves over using a word that only has negative conotations because of its racist history.

[Politicalboi]

245. I have always associated

Comedy with Bush being a monkey. I always thought it was an insult to the monkeys. I never thought of it to be insulting because of it's racist meaning. In the 60's there was a kid show Sir Lancelot with monkeys in dress and talking. It was funny. Just like depicting Bush as a monkey is funny. Had this been a mad dog he never would have written the cartoon. He knew what he was implying with the monkey. And I would think it's the looks not the less than human, stupid or beast.

[MellowDem]

295. Well everyone will interpret it differently...

but when Bush was called a chimp, I couldn't help but be reminded of where that insult started from. I agree that depicting Bush as a monkey definitely can be funny and was used as comedy, but I saw a lot of instances when it was used as an insult rather than comedy. I wish we lived in a world where that didn't matter, but as you can see, it still does with the reaction to this cartoon. I just think that we on the Left should try not to perpetuate the use of the ape as an insult, period, because of its sordid history.

[NYC_SKP]

112. MOVE ALONG-- (nothing to see here)

(sarcasm in subject line plus reference to our police people everywhere)

I'm more disturbed by the depiction of police and violence than of the monkey, though both aspects are outrageous.

:wtf:

The "monkey could have written it" point could have been made without the police--guns--violence part.

What have police shootings got to do with the stimulus package?

This is beyond creepy, but I feel very badly for police officers everywhere.

Shit, I feel badly for everyone everywhere. Someone should seriously join the ranks of the unemployed.

:patriot:

[vaberella]

119. Ditto...I was telling my sister just that. n/t

[NYC_SKP]

133. I guess in a different story, police had to shoot an escaped chimp... but WTF

It's still f'ed up.

[bdamomma]

125. contact numbers for the ny post are listed below if anyone wants

to contact them.

http://www.nypost.com/contact/contactus.htm

I think this horrible cartoon is on Page Six and if you go under contacts there is an e-mail address saying Page Six.

[NancyG]

134. First impression I had was assassination of the President and I'm appalled.

The racism is a secondary and awful affront.

That's what I saw, and my mouth is still open in awe that this was printed.

[Bigmo472]

140. OUTRAGEOUS!!!

Wow, It's amazing that no matter how much everyone talks about this election uniting the country, there has to be an idiot who wants to continue with racist behavior. This guy is a political cartoonist/satirist. His job is to take events and look at them from all angles and determine if he can spin them to get a laugh while also promoting more extensive thought on the subject. This isn't some kid who draws pictures and doesn't realize the implications. To say that he doesn't think about the racial implications because he's not black is a copout. I don't have to be Mexican American to know not to depict them taking a siesta or climbing out of a river. I don't have to be Native American to know not to depict them unconscious with liquor bottles scattered around or chasing wolves with bows and arrows. This guy knew exactly what he was doing and chose to do it anyway. The moment I saw the cartoon I immediately saw the racist context. Even trying to say that President Obama is not the only one who worked on the bill doesn't wash either because everyone calls it The President's Stimulus Package. When we listen to an Obama speech we give him credit if we like what he says or blame him if we don't like it. Nobody asks "Who is this guy's speechwriter?". Bottom line is this guy screwed up and should have to face some consequences.

[firedupdem]

150. Well said Bigmo472, and welcome to DU!

:hi:

[Spazito]

154. Well said!

:thumbsup: and Welcome to DU!

[uponit7771]

158. +1, some are acting as if Obama had nothing to do with the stimulus

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

156. People, don't feed the trolls.

They know it's racist. The artist knew it was racist. Everybody knows it's racist.

Don't let them playing dumb throw you off. That's the shallowest of plausible deniability.

Anybody arguing that it's the same as calling Bush a chimp clearly has shit for brains.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

160. Proof That Perception Is The Most Overwhelming Force In Humanity. People Will See What They Want To

see.

On one hand, it is quite easy to understand why some perceptually view the cartoon as racist. It's obvious, when using their perception as a base, why it would appear that way. On the other hand, using rational logic and deduction, which can overpower flawed perception, it is also quite easy to ascertain that the artist's intent was far more innocent and meant to portray stupidity and ineptness on the part of the writers of the bill.

[demokatgurrl]

166. Yeah. Innocent . n/t

[Cha]

168. It's fucking stupid..I'd

expect it in KKK newsletter where brains aren't required.

And, I know the NY Post..but, that's in NYC where the voters went overwhelmingly for OBAMA with good fucking reason.

Go Al Sharpton!!:patriot:

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

170. This is nothing new for the NYP. Beyond disgusting.

[StrongBad]

171. If they had said "something else" instead of "someone else" I would have given them a pass.

Otherwise the argument doesn't fly.

[WeDidIt]

172. The BLATANT racism is ASTOUNDING!

Beware of Dogs:



Cops shooting.

Not to mention the disturbing message of assassination inherent in the "cartoon".

[Milo_Bloom]

174. Can we save outrage for something that actually matters?

This one reminds me of the South Park episode about the town flag.

[RBInMaine]

176. Sorry, but there are lines with this stuff that should not be crossed. This goes too far.

[Milo_Bloom]

177. Only if you read it the way you WANT TO.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

179. Listen, you can stick your fingers in your ears and pretend this isn't racist...

but don't expect honest, rational people to do the same.

[Milo_Bloom]

180. It's in poor taste, but I don't find it racist.

Unless you ASSuME the monkey is Obama.

However, I don't think a cartoonist, no matter what side he is on, would submit a cartoon that is THAT racist.

I think they are more refering to congress as being a group of rampaging apes.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

182. I don't believe that you don't find it racist.

[Milo_Bloom]

184. Ooookay. Don't believe it.

But, the reality is that I didn't even THINK of the racist angle until people started pulling their hair out over it.

I thought it was in poor taste because a woman might lose her lift b/c of that monkey attack. Further, thought it was poorly done b/c it suggests that the people writing the stimulus bill MEAN to do harm.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

186. I don't believe that either.

[Milo_Bloom]

187. Of course not...

Because in your world, everyone has to think just like you or it doesn't make sense.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

190. I just don't believe you're as stupid as you're pretending to be.

[Ganja Ninja]

197. You might be wrong about that.

The intended racism and violence is about as clear and despicable as it could be. And I don't believe for a second that the post printed it because they thought it would get a laugh from someone. You are correct. There's really only one way to read it.

[Milo_Bloom]

199. Stupidity is making issues out of non-issues, when real issues exist.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

202. The fact that Delonas is a bigot is a non-issue.

That's well established.

Why you're trying to make an issue out of it is beyond me.

[Milo_Bloom]

207. LOL

Yes, the several posts and the fauxrage from Sharpton and so many on this board shows what a non-issue it really is.

[blisteringcold]

195. You're missing the point!

Whoever he is trying to refer to the cartoon is implying that they should be shot. Pretty simple... Raging chimp should be shot!

[Milo_Bloom]

201. Yes.... poor taste and a stupid cartoon.

I don't discount that at all... but crying racism just isn't necessary.

[demokatgurrl]

208. not necessary because it is so obvious? n/t

[Milo_Bloom]

209. Because it isn't there unless you force it in.

And there is no reason to do that.

We, as a society, need to STOP being hypersensitive and looking for racism and sexism everywhere.

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/103452

2:00 minutes -> 2:45

[EFerrari]

212. Really. Because being less aware has worked so well for us in the past.

[Milo_Bloom]

214. We have never tried it before.

Would be nice to give something new a spin.

The PC BS has run its course.

[EFerrari]

218. Not according to your new attorney general.

And frankly, people who object to "PCness" are generally objecting to a lot more, like respecting other people.

[Justitia]

223. Ahhh! There it is!!! The "Political Correctness" CYA for blatant racists. I knew it would come

:puke:

[Milo_Bloom]

288. And then comes the racism tag.

You dare to not get offended by something and that makes YOU the racist.

This is why PC is such BS.

[Wednesdays]

292. Wow, everyone here offended by the cartoon is racist!

:crazy:

[Milo_Bloom]

308. Uhhhhh... no.

Nor is everyone not offended by it racist.

[Justitia]

300. The cartoon is racist as hell. You....I don't know about. Quoting "PC" is to excuse racism.

People that quote "political correctness" as an excuse for blatant racism - you tell me - are they racist?

[Milo_Bloom]

309. The cartoon ain't racist, so the PC BS tag applies.

[Justitia]

363. Nope, you're just being willfully obtuse, but you keep on defending the indefensible.

Go ahead and hang YOUR hat on that disgusting fucking racist cartoon.

Speaks volumes.

[Milo_Bloom]

367. Luckily there is a whole world in between.

One does not have to "hang a hat" on the cartoon to not believe there was any racist intent behind it.

It's a shitty cartoon for a billion reasons, but intended racism isn't one of them.

[Justitia]

380. The Post has now publicly apologized for the racist cartoon, yet you still defend it.

How very bizarre.

[Milo_Bloom]

384. I care as much about the post as I do people who search for racism.

[Justitia]

385. You've worked real hard to defend this "cartoon", so you've shown your stripes - thanks. -eom

[Milo_Bloom]

386. Thank you for your useless assessment.

I'll file it where it belongs.

[Justitia]

387. And I've filed your username as a defender of violent racism against Democrats - thanks!

[Milo_Bloom]

388. Yet, I did no such thing.

But, thanks again for your useless opinion.

[Wednesdays]

289. Yup..."political correctness" is trotted out

And it looks like South Park is the gold standard by which all political discourse should follow.

It's pretty clear which side of the aisle this dude came from.

[Milo_Bloom]

291. Of course...

He doesn't buy into the BS PC world thus he MUST be from the other side of the aisle.

Who cares about real issues like health care, tax reform, human rights...

screw it... just don't use the wrong words at the wrong time.

[Wednesdays]

293. Whatever you say, Bub.

:crazy: :dunce: :freak:

[Milo_Bloom]

311. Quick, pull out the emoticons.. they prove points without logic!

[fascisthunter]

243. it's not PC BS.. it's called being considerate and showing respect

something bigots have very little tolerance for.

[Milo_Bloom]

290. I have no tolerance for hypersensitive idiots.

If people can't distinguish between fauxrage and real issues, I have absolutely no use for them or their fear of words.

[Wednesdays]

294. I have no tolerance for racists.

Hey, let's see some links to your many anti-racist web pages and comments.

Your credibility is on the line. You may begin when ready.

[Milo_Bloom]

310. What on earth are you babbling about?

So people have to justify themselves to satisfy your fauxrage?

[shellgame26]

320. You need to brush up on some history

You might find for example that the Nazis used cartoons to depict Jews as rats and it actually influenced the way the society as a whole treated Jews. Racist propaganda is very dangerous! And I'm very sorry for you that you choose not to see that.

[Milo_Bloom]

344. And therein lies a difference

Can you find the difference between... Depicting an actual specific individual or race/religion in a negative light

VS

Having to assume that the chimp in the cartoon represents Obama.

If the chimp had any Obama caricatures, I would be there, but it doesn't. It's just a chimp on the heels of a newsstory about a chimp that went crazy and had to be shot.

[shellgame26]

364. So then

where does the stimulus bill come in???

[Milo_Bloom]

368. Congress wrote the stimulus bill.

The idea of the cartoon is that the stimulus bill is so insane only a crazed chimp could have written it. Its a shitty cartoon for a million reasons... but racist intent wasn't one of them.

I don't think ANYONE actually believes that the cartoonist intended the chimp to be Obama OR that the cartoonist was condoning the murder of the president over the stimulus bill.

Those are claiming racist intent are doing so only for effect, nothing more.

[fascisthunter]

341. I can but I don't think you can

nor do you want to.

"If people can't distinguish between fauxrage and real issues, I have absolutely no use for them or their fear of words."


yet you post as if you do... who is the real sensistive one here. I see you lobbing the insults.

[Wednesdays]

297. Got some more wisdom from South Park?

Please, share with us your enlightenment.

[Milo_Bloom]

313. You should try humor sometimes... It does wonders.

[rvablue]

194. I like the first sentence of the last paragraph of Sharpton's letter...

basically challenging them to explain it at minimum.

So, NY Post, what exactly were your intentions. He's going to let them sink themselves.

Go, Al!

[politicasista]

196. Get 'em Rev. Al!

No, this isn't funny.

[EFerrari]

198. I love Al Sharpton. n/t

[FrenchieCat]

200. My letter....

The cartoon depicting the "Stimulus Bill" writer as a Chimp gunned down by the police is appalling. Considering that Pres. Obama, our first African-American President has said himself that this was his bill makes the historical racial implications that the illustration connotes beyond grotesque, as does the depiction of an assassination. I understand that some will pretend that the toon has nothing to do with our President but they would be badly lying.

In 2009, as a nation, we must do better than finding humor in police action, dead animals, and our dire economic predicament. Whomever had the brain fart to come up with this editorial cartoon should find him or herself standing in a job fair line that snakes around the block while drawing their up their plan on how they will be paying next month's bills. In otherwords, I am totally disgusted.

Respectfully,

XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

[ZombieHorde]

205. What happened to your avatar? It was cute.

Oh and, you have the weirdest name. No offense, but XXXXXXXXXXXXXX is just strange. How do you even pronounce that?

[FrenchieCat]

206. I became a "Non Donor", and I guess it got taken away!

I lost my Credit Card, and am awaiting a new one....so I can't donate till then!

As for my name; it's French! :rofl:

[ZombieHorde]

203. I don't know the intent, but you know the KKK LOVES that cartoon.

[BanTheGOP]

213. 100% Republican Through and Through...

...the NY GOP must be held accountable. There should be a suit against the republican-owned NY Post, hopefully enough to bankrupt it. As it is a Fox news affiliate, we should consider a more massive suit that would maim Fox News and the republican party as much as possible.

[iandhr]

220. Thats horrible

[CLANG]

224. I'm sorry people I have to disagree

Most of you seem to think this isn't a big deal, that this wasn't representing the president.

But let me ask you: What would the monkey have to do with the stimulus bill? Nothing. But President Obama had a lot to do with it. He only happens to be half african which a lot of racists like to refer to various names related to primates other than humans.

This is blatant. Sorry, JMO

[Hekate]

227. That's just ... sick. Go get'm Rev. Sharpton. nt

[Politicalboi]

231. If the monkey doesn't mean Obama

Then why does it say "They'll have to find SOMEONE else to write the next stimulus bill". This bill has been talked about as Obama's bill. Who is the monkey representing? I wonder if the "artist" would go into Harlem and see if he can find someone who would laugh at his funny joke. I doubt he would have the balls.

[Gen. Jack D. Ripper]

232. I don't understand why the policeman shot a monkey

Is it so common for police officers to open fire on random primates that the depiction of which in a political cartoon requires no context? I think I remember a news story regarding one, or several, escaped monkeys recently. It may be a reference to that. If it was, the author might have drawn something to help us understand the correlation. So, it's either a rather poor cartoon, or potentially racist.

Of course, to be fair, president Bush was also (and often) depicted as a monkey, of several varieties. Though, that was likely because he looked and, well, actually acted like one.

[jeff30997]

234. WTF?

I knew that the NY Post was garbage but this is something so sick that I could only imagine

that a cartoon like that would only be published in a Neo-Nazi or KKK crappy newsletter.:puke:

[Justitia]

239. Yup. NYPost: Stormfront Edition -eom

[fascisthunter]

240. boy was that stupid...

first off, the racial overtones are pretty obvious knowing the history and usage of the word "monkey" to describe blacks.

second, the implication of gunning down a President ... WTF

As a cartoonist or illustrator one is responsible for his/her work and thinks real hard before getting their work published. I find it hard to believe this cartoonist didn't once think about all of this.

[stlsaxman]

244. Jesus H. Fucking Christ.

[KalicoKitty]

246. Is this what the cartoonist would like to see happen

to the writer of the stimulus bill? This is so disgusting and hope the NY Post gets boycotted.

[Politicalboi]

247. Close to the Rodney King beating

Cops where known to use the term "Gorilla's in the mist". I wonder who they were referring too? I know Los Angels can be a zoo sometimes but I doubt that is what they meant. Just like this "artist".

[jwirr]

248. Absolutely terrible and racist. They should be sued.

[Name removed]

251. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JayMusgrove]

253. Those people who do not see the offensiveness of this are obviously

too white, too insensitive, too stupid, too rich, too linked to white mythology, too unschooled in racial history, too insensitive to the feelings of other people on this planet, especially too insensitive to Americans who are members of minority groups.

Or else, no one has made me understand how this is, in any way, funny.

Please show us how this is funny. I invite you all to explain this, if you are not white, not employed, and willing to laugh at yourself as being someone's pet that should be shot.

Please explain how any of this is funny to any American.

[Name removed]

259. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

261. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JayMusgrove]

256. FWIW..........Olbermann making the publishers of this cartoon.

look like the fools and insensitive idiots they are.

This hour, Eastern time. watch it.

[ooglymoogly]

258. Disgraceful does not begin to cover this. The "cartoon" is not signed

who would take credit for this pile of elephant shit?

[what0now0toons]

266. "What Now Toons" response to the "New York Post's Racist Cartoon!"

The New York Posts cartoon?!! What can I say, this is a despicable cartoon, for all too many reasons.
For years the racists have referred to African Americans as monkeys, this is a throwback to those terrible Jim Crow times. Then you have the issue of domestic terrorism, because that is what this cartoon implies, shooting a beloved president, this cartoon is just irresponsible on so many levels. The cartoonist has crossed the line of bad taste and fans the flames political threats.
I'm a political cartoonist from the left side of the fence, and it would NEVER cross my mind to draw a cartoon of this nature about Bush, I never did, check out my toons to see
It's up on my website right now
www.whatnowtoons.com
left of center political cartoons.

[ooglymoogly]

275. The clean up crews are out in force on this indefencible "cartoon"...

Even to take the more than sophomoric take on the "cartoon"; That the thrust was that the bill was "poorly written" but in a condescending manner, allowing that others would take it differently ....Get A Grip for cripes sake; Even if those arguments held any water the mere fact that it could be taken in the way that most are taking it should have been burning, neon red flags up the gazzoo for the editors of the Post to not let this elephant shit onto the pages of the paper. There is nothing to say but shame.

[genna]

355. I've liked what I saw at your website...but Obama as Superman

ok

[WoodyM]

271. Being in my eighties,

and I am white, and having lived all my life in the south, I instantly see the racism in this cartoon. This is the kind of stuff one would expect to see in a KKK hand out.

[MsUnderstood]

274. STOP THE PRESSES! and read the paper

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jvlkKth37Fp__GL6KYdl2b1s6dBgD96DNV5G0

It appears that in STAMFORD, Conn a chimpanzee pet attacked a woman and was then shot by police.

So if we are aware of other news events we can then link this chimpanzee story to the joke implied in the cartoon.

To automatically credit the artist with being a racist by jumping to the conclusion Al sharpton did is racist in itself because it implies that white people cannot fathom black people as anything but monkeys.

[Every Man A King]

278. So no one is a racist since only a racist would recognize racism?

:eyes:

[ooglymoogly]

395. Wow, from what asshole did you pull that bit of

idiocy. Lesson; Any honest mind of any intelligence at all and whose mind has not been locked in bigotry, can recognize racism when it rears its ugly head.

[demokatgurrl]

280. we KNOW this!!!! Sheesh. It's been posted about 10 times

that doesn't excuse the cartoon.

[Milo_Bloom]

314. It doesn't matter what the facts are.

People WANT to be outraged. They WANT there to be massive racism against Obama.

Forget the fact that Obama didn't write the stimulus bill.

Forget the fact that a crazed chimp was actually shot by police.

Forget the fact that people often make comparrisons between crazed animals and politicians when they feel they have gone too far.

Forget the fact that the monkey represents a congress gone wild in a minority of people's minds.

Forget it all and get OUTRAGED!!!


Can't you see there is only ONE POSSIBLE WAY TO INTERPRET THIS CARTOON?!??!

2 steps forward, 3 steps back!

[Highway61]

276. I said it earlier

and I will say it again...everyone here seems to have a "take" on this. Pure and simple...it is DISGUSTING! How must Obama feel when he saw this? My God. How very sad there are folks out there willing to print this shit.

[shellgame26]

284. WTF!!!!!!

[Number23]

285. Massive, Epic Fail

[progressivebydesign]

296. Not even considering the racial aspect, this is a DESPICABLE cartoon in so many ways.

The chimpanzee incident was extremely tragic on all levels. WTF is wrong with the NY Post? Do they have NO peer review of these things? Did anyone think, even for a moment, that this was a colossally bad cartoon?

What a bunch of assholes.

[AtomicKitten]

302. I expected worse but Sharpton pulled it off on Rachel.

I don't think the cartoon is racist per se. It's a timely and topical juxtaposition of two unrelated current events that just happened to be in extremely poor taste just as a natural inference.

Sharpton focused on the violence of the piece and on that point he was right on.

[shellgame26]

303. From Huff Po.: This is for you Doc

the games racists play....

Rules:

1- Use stereotypes to diminish and insult.

2- Pretend you aren't aware of stereotypes (example: The California Republican Club president who printed and distributed "Obama Bucks Food Stamps" with pictures of watermelon and fried chicken, who "never knew these things were associated with black people"), or at least pretend the stereotypes never occurred to you.

3- Be incensed that others recognize the stereotypes, and in a pinch, display righteous indignation.

4- Secretly take pleasure in getting away with getting racist material in the public eye and enjoy the reactions ---keep playing dumb

[Honeycombe8]

307. Whoa. This is a disturbing cartoon. WhoEVER approved that toon should be fired.

But Sharpton shouldn't be the one to do it.

[Beacool]

315. Sharpton must be loving every minute of it.

He's back in his element and being interviewed by the media. His outrage is over the top, as usual. The Post will not fire the cartoonist and so far they have refused to apologize. Somewhere Murdoch is probably laughing at the whole thing.

:eyes:

[shellgame26]

321. and clearly, so are you

Is it Pumas night out again?

[Beacool]

337. Oh geez,

There's plenty of legitimate cause out there for outrage over real incidents of racism. This is not one of them. It's a manufactured outrage over a cartoon that was meant to make fun of Democrats, as are all political cartoons on the Post. This cartoonist takes the headline of the day and spins it into a political cartoon, usually skewering the Dems since it's for the RW Post. He would have probably submitted the same cartoon regardless of who was president. It was not implying that the dead chimp was Obama, let alone suggesting an assassination attempt. Sharpton is an instigator, always has been.

:eyes:

[Raineyb]

347. Someone draws a racist cartoon and the villian in this story according to you is Sharpton?

You read the Post on a regular basis don't you? Is that why you've got it twisted? Sharpton is not the problem here your obvious dislike for him notwithstanding.

:crazy:

[Beacool]

348. Yes, I don't like Sharpton at all.

But no, I don't buy the Post. I actually make it a point of not giving Murdoch a penny of my money if I can help it.

As far as the cartoon, the cartoonist always takes the headline of the day and makes a political cartoon out of it. Yesterday, the big news around these parts was the chimp and what he did to that poor woman. I honestly don't think that he meant to equate Obama to the dead chimp. Though he was definitely poking fun at the Dems, but the Post does that on a daily basis. Nothing new there, it's a RW rag.

[Raineyb]

354. I live in these parts and I saw the story about the Chimp

And there's still no way in hell that cartoon chimp wasn't a reference to Obama.

You can make all the logical twists you want to tell yourself that it wasn't but, to borrow a phrase, that dog don't hunt.

Regards

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

349. The poster has admitted to liking the Obama sock monkey.

So that should tell you everything you need to know.

[Beacool]

351. I happen to like sock monkeys.

I have two of them and would have gladly bought a Hillary sock monkey if they had made one. Just as I like the Vermont Teddy Bears representing Hillary, Obama and McCain.



;)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

352. Tell it to somebody who believes you or respects your opinion.

That ain't me.

[Beacool]

353. Whatever....................

:eyes:

[LynneSin]

329. Did we die and wake up in in 1870??!!

I mean that's the type of racist shit I'd expect to see in the NY Post if it was 1870.

[Name removed]

334. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LynneSin]

336. But come on - there has to be a level of logic when you use these images

Calling Bush a chimp for 8 years was safe because he was not a person of color. It has been well documented that for centuries the image of a chimp/monkey/gorilla has been used as a racial slur against African-American people.

They could have easily built that same cartoon and put another image in there other than one that is widely accepted as a racial slur against a race of people.

Obama is going to be insulted the next 8 years - insult him because you find him unacceptable as a president NOT because of the color of his skin.

[paparush]

335. Its not a reference to a million monkeys typing and one of them writing Shakespeare?

Yeah. I didn't think so either.

[AyanEva]

342. This cartoon fails so hard...

I didn't even understand it until someone explained it. Not only is it offensive but it also just generally sucks.

[EnviroBat]

356. Gunning down the likeness of Glenn Beck

Now I find that slightly offensive... But they should have gone with this:

[npk]

382. I never thought I would say this but GO Sharpton GO

Me and the reverend haven't always seen eye to eye, but on this issue I hope he uses every last bit on influence he has to absolutely destroy that piss poor publication.

There is simply no way to explain that stupid parody any other way to Sunday, except that it is a racist dig at the president. Like someone else said at best the cartoon is implying that Obama is no smarter than a crazy chimp. That is still racist. Damnit what is wrong with this country. It is funny. It just isn't.

[flvegan]

383. This thread is awesome.

[SoxFan]

389. The cartoon is vile. So is Sharpton.

He only makes matters worse when he starts flapping his gums. All he is going to do is make the cartoonist a martyr for the Fox News set, and probably win him a book deal with Regnery.

[EFerrari]

408. I love how revealing these threads are. It's like a gift, really. n/t

[Raineyb]

410. It certainly is. n/t

Regards

[Name removed]

403. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ooglymoogly]

406. You my friend are a fool in fools gold rags, if indeed you have any clothes at all.

If you do not "get" that most of the country including the media perceive this as Obama's plan to get us out of the astronomical crisis that B*shco has left us with, you just are not getting much of anything.

[deaniac21]

412. Wonder what Chimpy thinks?

[Clio the Leo]

413. For crying out loud! Is Al not there YET!!!!

He's been on his way to the Post for DAYS now..... lol, I think that every time I see this thread back on top of the page.

Could he NOT get a CAB!!!?