Can't there be a middle ground on Obama?

[incapsulated]

Look, I've been on DU on and off for years now.

I pretty much abandoned the site during the primaries.

You couldn't really be a Hillary supporter here and the blind adoration of Obama turned my stomach. I don't believe in worshiping any politician.

HOWEVER.

The irony is now I am posting occasionally again, I am mostly *defending* Obama.

It's like he is either the Messiah on toast or Bush II.

He has far exceeded my expectations and I am willing to give him a lot of slack. But I do not expect perfection from any President, the job is far too complex. I do have far more trust in him than I did a few months ago. I do not conclude the very worst when the administration doesn't have a position that is in line with my liberal gut and the guy has only been in office for a month. He has inherited only the worst situation in recent memory.

Can't there be a realistic middle ground on this? Or at least some patience before we throw him to the dogs in "outrage"?

[liberalpragmatist]

1. Absolutely - bravo

I don't expect to agree with ANY public figure on everything. I fully expect to disagree with Obama on several things, including some priorities.

My advice is for people to look at the big picture - don't miss the forest for the trees. And if and when the Obama Admin does something you vigorously disagree with, respectfully seek pressure from other sources - through advocacy groups, Congress, the press.

"Change" is always going to be a collaborative, multifaceted process. Obama can't - and won't - do everything. Nor will he do everything right. But he's not the be all and end all.

[incapsulated]

7. Honestly, I have no problem criticizing him over anything

It's the hysterical nature of it.

I guess I didn't have wild expectations so instead I'm rather happy and surprised at how much better he is than I ever hoped.

Then again, this is DU, heh.

[damonm]

2. Oh, come ON...

You're on DU, and you're expecting REASONABLE PEOPLE?!?
:rofl:
Silly you...

[incapsulated]

6. lol I guess you are right

:P

[elocs]

15. Correctomundo! There really is no middle ground at DU.

The DU gods always have feet of clay and once DUers figure it out, how they love to bring em down. Here you are either the hero or the goat, and if you're the goat you are placed on the altar of "constructive criticism". Then, god help you, but since the gods have clay feet round and round we go.

[elleng]

3. There MUST be a middle ground;

President Obama is the most liberal, progressive, populist president we'll ever see in our lifetimes, and in my opinion those who at this stage are suggesting that he's either toast or Bush II ought to go back to kindergarten where they belong.

For information, I didn't support Clinton or Obama during the primaries.

[Jamastiene]

4. I am in the middle when it comes to him...now.

I was a Hillary Clinton supporter in the primaries...and I still like her. I was very unhappy with the anti-gay people he was always bringing around...and I still don't like that. I really hated the way some on DU touted him as a messiah of sorts. He's human, for crying out loud. He can do great things AND fuck up just like any other human being.

My official position(s) on President Obama:
1. I still don't like the way homophobes keep springing up everywhere around him, but he, himself, doesn't seem to be homophobic.
2. When he does something I like, I'll say so and praise him.
3. When he does something that pisses me off, I'll say so and get called names some more by the "messiah" crowd. I kind of don't care what that certain faction says any more. I no longer take them seriously politically. I learned a long time ago that they are not living in the real world and not basing their politics on the actual politics, but instead fandom. The man is human, for crying out loud. He's gonna fuck up some.
4. He has only been there for a month. Let's see what he is going to do in the future. He's already stood up to the Republicans at least once, which is an excellent sign. Give him time.

[Cha]

5. I've never stopped defending Obama..

primaries, general, and now he's the Prez who's earned it.. and he's inherited the hardest job in the world.

Somebody the fuck has to support him and get behind him if we want the country to succeed.

[BeyondGeography]

8. Primaries are over, time to fix the country

and Obama is the leader of this party until 2016 or, four years earlier, if we lose the White House in 2012. It should be easy for most rational Democrats to get behind him, implicitly or otherwise.

[kiva]

9. My suggestion, on another thread, is that we could

use a new forum that would focus on political issues, whether presidential, congressional, or local. This would, I think, draw more of the 'middle ground' group of people who have left GDP.

[incapsulated]

10. GD:P for Politics

Instead of just Obama may be a good idea.

Skinner will probably do this eventually anyway, though.

[kiva]

12. My thought is that is might take away some of the

'hot button' problems that exist here, where some people seem compelled to defend or criticize Obama far beyond any rational level. It would have the added bonus of leaving this forum for people who like the picture/fashion/chat threads about the First Family, and provide a place for those who want to talk about politics.

[incapsulated]

25. Well it could work

But Skinner has only grudgingly tolerated GDP in the past, when it was just Politics.

I think that will come back but I kinda doubt the tone will change, it will just include more House issues.

[Andy823]

11. Good idea,

I would love to see that. Being on the "middle ground" is not a bad thing, though some here would surely disagree, and the only way we can bring this country back together is to tray and meet in the middle. I think Obama is doing a good job, I don't agree with everything he is doing, but I am willing to wait it out and see what the results are. It is going to take time, and after jut a little over a month, I think he has done well.

[Enrique]

13. I think your perceptions are skewed

some dems do get "thrown to the dogs in outrage" here, but Obama isn't one of them. Not even close.

[incapsulated]

18. Maybe yours are

I've been reading OUTRAGE threads since the day he took office, ffs.

I'm pretty outraged out after 8 years of Bush, Obama doesn't come close.

And this is coming from someone who ripped him up before so I do not think I am at all biased here.

Edit to add, I have little patience for the stfu and leave posts at any criticism of him either.

They are both extremes.

[Terran]

55. "Rick Warren" ring a bell?

A lot of people here were through with Obama before he'd even begun because of that.

[Pirate Smile]

14. I think a lot of people on DU actually have the same take as you on dealing with the

various issues that pop up daily.

As usual, the extremes get the most attention. When things happen which I don't agree with, I take a wait and see approach and many times that initial report ends up being inaccurate. I also don't expect to agree with everything.

Some people simply seem unwilling to not immediately jump to the worst conclusion. It is also certainly normal to criticize when you disagree. The extremes always get the attention and I'm sure that wont change. I just skip those threads. :)

[EraOfResponsibility]

16. Between people publicly calling for Obama to be "stopped"

being called all kinds of names on and having his citizenship questioned, inciting potential violence against him, and the OVERREACTORS from the far left who threaten him everytime we get news about a detainee situation, Obama is getting so much bullshit thrown at him. From BOTH SIDES. For that reason alone, he gets my full support. Because no white democratic president would ever have to put up with this crap.

[leftofthedial]

17. I'm pretty much "in the middle" on Obama.

I salute some of his accomplishments since taking office. His first three days were amazing. The stimulus package was far too small and encumbered by the tax-cut residue of Obama's foolish attempts to mollify repukes, but it was a great, perhaps unprecedented, political victory and will do more good than harm.

I also criticize his economic team, whose members are the problem, not the solution. I am extremely opposed to his position on Iraq and Afghanistan, but then I always was.

Time and again, any criticism of Obama or his decisions, not matter how mild or how reasoned, is met with indignant screams of outrage and the strawman of "Obama hatred" or "throwing him to the dogs" or "you'd rather have McCain as President."

Truthfully, I see no extremism here among those who criticize Obama, but I sure see extremism from his ardent supporters.

[EraOfResponsibility]

27. right

Truthfully, I see no extremism here among those who criticize Obama, but I sure see extremism from his ardent supporters.

You see what you want to see...:eyes:

[leftofthedial]

40. ...and not.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[and-justice-for-all]

19. Since when has supporting become worhipping?

In that instance, the same can also be said about any one who supported any other politician.

[waiting for hope]

21. There's a difference - some support comes

blindly without any logical, reasonable thought about what is being said or what has been done. I have seem so many "excuses" for certain things, issues that would have been fodder here if it had been Bush and the like doing the same.

[incapsulated]

24. No....

As I said there are extremes on both sides.

[and-justice-for-all]

41. Of course there is...

there always are.

[Top Cat]

20. Kick

[Sparkly]

22. Hi Incap!!

:hi: :hug:

Yes, things do tend to be at the extremes here.

I don't post much lately, but was glad to see your name here. :)

[incapsulated]

23. Hey sweetie!

:pals:

Yeah neither do I, heh.

Was talking to Jersey in PM anyway so....

[Adelante]

42. OMG, I've been wondering where you've been

:hug:

I haven't been posting as much, either, but I did notice your absence :hi:

[incapsulated]

43. I wuv you...

Former Jersey Girl. :P

:loveya:

[Adelante]

44. Aw, gee

:loveya:

Let's not start! Crunchy will be in to yell at us. :)

[incapsulated]

45. Hehe

True. :D

[LWolf]

26. Sure.

In reality, he's certainly not the worst president we've ever had.

Nor the best.

You have found yourself defending him.

I've been adamantly opposing him since he decided to run in the primaries, and the stronger his support became, the harder I pushed back.

Because his supporters did not, could not, would not, acknowledge his shortcomings, and the painful realities we will now deal with for the next 4-8 years.

When the majority is willing to stand up to his hawkish, corporatist, right-leaning ideologies, I'll be willing to acknowledge his strengths.

Because that's the reality. Some things will be better than they were under GWB. Many things won't, because the new president doesn't represent that kind of change.

[incapsulated]

49. LWolf, he is more change than I ever imagined we were ready for

And frankly, the fact he won is still rather stunning to me.

I think you overestimate the American people.

I also think Obama risks underestimating them. That is my only complaint right now. I think he can push much harder to the left than he thinks he can right now.

[LWolf]

50. Either I don't see the change you do, or

we value different changes.

Yes, I am aware, of course, that electing a person of color is a change. A welcome change. I would have preferred that the first black president be correct on issues, though. Otherwise, the change is only skin-deep.

The real change that I see is a legitimizing of the nation's shift to the right of center. That's a change, but it's not a positive one. I don't think he has any desire, or intention, to "push to the left." He's been clearly distancing himself from the left since he announced his candidacy.

[incapsulated]

52. But he never ran as a liberal let alone a leftist

No, it's not about his skin color it's about his ability to hit the ground running and keep his promises.

I never expected a liberal because he never ran as one and he wasn't to the left in the Senate, either.

You can be a radical right wing loon and become President in this country but a Democrat has to spend most of their time proving they aren't a communist to even be considered, so no, I'm not surprised but I wasn't expecting anything else.

[LWolf]

56. You're correct. He didn't run that way.

Which is why I've never supported him.

I always expected him to be unacceptably center-right, so no surprise here.

There's no middle ground, either. It's not that he is not a leftist himself. It's that all of his propaganda about "bringing people together" blatantly excluded the left, and included the right, thus bolstering the nations position to the right of center and setting us up for moving even further that way.

The hypocrisy surrounding all that "togetherness" while distancing himself as quickly, and as decisively from the left doesn't engender any respect on my part, and puts the lie to the idea that there is some "middle ground."

[Jennicut]

53. How can he be either the best OR the worst? Its been a few weeks!

Deciding that early for me is a mistake. Bush can be judged on, its been a long 8 years. But Obama? He can hardly be judged on when we don't even know what impact anything he has done will have in the long term. Sorry, but its way too soon.

[kwenu]

28. You mean be reasonable? Heck NO!

;)

[Danger Mouse]

29. There should be a middle ground, but there won't be...

because of all the black-and-white thinking that goes on here.

[tekisui]

32. I can understand black and white thinking on specific issues.

When that black and white thinking transfers to personalities or individuals or administrations, things are not healthy.

[Danger Mouse]

33. Some issues are black and white, but some people are incapable of anything BUT such thought.

And yes, some people are obsessed with certain people or issues.

[tekisui]

31. The 'middle ground', as you describe it souds like reality to me.

President Obama is impressing me far more than upsetting me. I never thought of or expected anyone to be perfect. He is doing a great job with an epic mess.

[Skittles]

34. I'm in the middle

I recognize both the good and bad in Obama

[backscatter712]

35. I'm in the middle too.

If you're looking for a politician that you will agree with 100% of the time, and does things your way 100% of the time, you're not going to find him.

I'd say that I get most of what I want with Obama.

Granted, I think he should be even more aggressive with dealing with the economy than he already is, and go more Keynesian than neo-liberal with his economics. At the same time, I recognize that some of this is because of political strategy - he's making a big show of going a little slow, trying to get the Republicans on board, and so on, but that's so he'll have enough political capital to steamroll them when he's at the point where things need to get done.

[GeorgeGist]

36. I think most would agree that

he, like most americans, is a capitalist who believes that profit is an entitlement.

[stillcool]

37. We are among giants here on DU...

there are so many posters that are extremely qualified to be President, and for the life of me, I don't understand why they are depriving us of their brilliant leadership. They have all the answers, can read minds, and can see into the future with alarming clarity. They were born to perfect parents, have perfect friends, and have never made a mistake in their entire life. There is no subject matter that is too complex for them to tackle with a quick turn of a phrase. If any one of these highly astute people were to be President, they would not need worry about any Congress. They would voice their wish, and the entire power structure of the United States would bow down before them and acquiesce to their demands. The empire would cease to exist by their command, the Industrial Military Complex would respond to their voice, like docile lambs. Perhaps Obama will go the way of Lincoln, or JFK, and one of our esteemed posters will step up to their rightful place in the United States Government.

[ProSense]

38. Here's the middle ground:

Obama is the President.

Not a single person would have the luxury of continuing to characterize Obama as Messiah on toast or Bush II if McCain had won.

We're in "deal with it time," or you can call it the middle ground.

[Douglas Carpenter]

39. Good Lord, I would certainly hope so

We don't live in a democratic-socialist society that has turned away from its imperialist past. We live in one of the most capitalistic societies in the history of the world at the summit of it power as the strongest military empire the world has ever known.

Anyone who has to actually hold power has to deal with the realities of market forces in a profoundly capitalist world and the competitions for global power is an extremely hostile world.

This would be true even if Dennis Kucinich was President and he had a largely sympathetic Congress.

Political progressivism at its absolute best still is trapped by political realities as they are - not realities as they should be and perhaps could be at some point in the future.

Considering the realities as they actually do exist in the real world, President Obama seems to be doing reasonably well.

This doesn't mean that progressives should not speak up for the most progressive possible policies the situation can allow. They absolutely should! But any harsh criticism has to be balanced with realies as it actually exist and any harsh criticism, in my opinion, should be limited to matters that really matter and really make a difference in the real world - not simply endless nitpicking because the President isn't governing as if the whole country had accepted the progressive worldview and as if market forces and political and economic realities do not exist.

[ecstatic]

46. Supporting him is the middle ground

As you said, it's only been a month. Support for him at this point is the reasonable, sane position.

[cooolandrew]

47. Glad you came around, followed the guy fairly close he just seemed the answer to so many problems. >

So pleased I called it so right on the new prez. Here have an ickle platonic fellow comrade DU heart.

[incapsulated]

48. I can't believe my first thread in years did so well :P

Honestly, if you ask me now, I'm glad Obama won (the primary). It's his time. He is the right President for right now and I would be a liar if I said I wasn't deeply moved by having someone quite literally like myself as President.

I do have trust that he wants to do the right thing but god knows, a lot of them start out that way. Politics is ugly and governing is worse.

But I think, and this is coming from someone who toned down my expectations to "just don't fuck up", he has done amazingly well. No, I don't agree with everything he has done but the fact that I have a list of shit he has gotten done in only four weeks is pretty outstanding for any new President.

He has earned an extended honeymoon, as far as I am concerned.

I am very worried about Afghanistan but I am less nervous about his ability to recalculate any moves he may make and change direction if he needs to. But I really can't tell yet, it's up in the air, still.

[Adelante]

51. I knew he was a pragmatist going in

I never expected I would get every last thing I wanted. I trusted he would work hard to accomplish what was possible and out of that I would get some of what I want. So, no, disappointment doesn't really enter into it for me, not in any serious way. Getting a pang here and there, sure. But I don't expect to be happy every single minute of his presidency. I realize he's got to do what it takes to move his program forward and sometimes that may mean a shave off here and there or some part comes later rather than sooner. Given the grave situation he's stepped into, though, I think my firm support is far more important and necessary than indulging my disappointments.

[Marrah_G]

54. I put myself in the middle ground when it comes to Obama

I like some of his choices and dislike others.

I think he has the potential to be a great president.

I think he was a vastly superior choice over McCain

I am amused by those who see him as more then a mortal man.

I am annoyed by those who demand others to see him as they do.