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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 07:29 PM
Original message
Summers' remarks on women draw fire
In case you forgot...

17 January 2005

CAMBRIDGE -- The president of Harvard University, Lawrence H. Summers, sparked an uproar at an academic conference Friday when he said that innate differences between men and women might be one reason fewer women succeed in science and math careers. Summers also questioned how much of a role discrimination plays in the dearth of female professors in science and engineering at elite universities.

Nancy Hopkins, a biologist at Massachusetts Institute of Technology, walked out on Summers' talk, saying later that if she hadn't left, ''I would've either blacked out or thrown up." Five other participants reached by the Globe, including Denice D. Denton, chancellor designate of the University of California, Santa Cruz, also said they were deeply offended, while four other attendees said they were not.

Summers said he was only putting forward hypotheses based on the scholarly work assembled for the conference, not expressing his own judgments -- in fact, he said, more research needs to be done on these issues. The organizer of the conference at the National Bureau of Economic Research said Summers was asked to be provocative, and that he was invited as a top economist, not as a Harvard official.

However, the problem of women in academia is one that Summers is confronting in his role as university president. The percentage of tenured job offers made to women by the university's Faculty of Arts and Sciences has dropped dramatically since Summers took office, prompting vigorous complaints from many of Harvard's senior female professors.

Summers has called last year's results, when only four of 32 tenured job offers went to women, unacceptable and promised to work on the problem. However, some Harvard professors have questioned his commitment to the issue.

The setting was a two-day conference at the economic research bureau, a group in Cambridge whose members include economists from all over the country. The conference, on women and minorities in the science and engineering workforce, was a private, invitation-only event, with about 50 attendees.

Summers spoke during a working lunch. He declined to provide a tape or transcript of his remarks, but the description he gave in an interview was generally in keeping with what 10 participants recalled. He said he was synthesizing the scholarship that the organizers had asked him to discuss, and that in his talk he repeated several times: ''I'm going to provoke you."

He offered three possible explanations, in declining order of importance, for the small number of women in high-level positions in science and engineering. The first was the reluctance or inability of women who have children to work 80-hour weeks.

More: http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2005/01/17/summers_remarks_on_women_draw_fire/
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
1. Wow - an article which is only 4 years old. How topical.
Edited on Sat Feb-21-09 07:34 PM by Pirate Smile
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Tells you a bit about a mindset
Edited on Sat Feb-21-09 07:39 PM by depakid
At least, that's what I thought at the time- and reckon might be true to this day,
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
2. flamebait
no?
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
3. EVERYONE should be reluctant to work 80-hour weeks.
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
5. What does this have to do with Presidential politics?
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. That's the head of the National Economic Council
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Lawrence H. Summers? I was hoping this was a misplaced thread. nt
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Unfortunately, no
Same guy who submitted this testimony:

http://www.treas.gov/press/releases/ls722.htm





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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #6
28. Summers is a jackass. Why Obama picked him is beyond me. n/t
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Runcible Spoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. That mentality of innate differences in gender is part of a larger philosophy..
Social Darwinism which is quite relevant to economic policies, ESPECIALLY disaster capitalism.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #8
24. Summers claimed that there may be innate gender differences guiding people towards or away
from careers in the sciences. Therefore, the Obama economic policy is aimed at killing off poor people.

DU is very smart.
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Runcible Spoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. Derf.
Yes because that's actually what I said!

You're a bore. If you don't feel like discussing anything concrete please go elsewhere; we've been round and round on this shit before. Ciao.
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liberalsince1968 Donating Member (245 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
9. Pisses me off just as much now as it did 4 years ago. Obama has some LOUSY taste in appointees.
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
21. This is one of his more tone-deaf moments.
I mean really, it's not like there aren't any number of eminent economists who aren't every bit as qualified and smart as Summers supposedly is. Between this and the paper he wrote on the expediency of exporting carcinogenic pollution to countries with a low life expectancy ("they're not going to live long enough to get cancer"), I don't know WTF Obama was thinking.
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Skwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
11. Summers is an idiot.
Most women would have to have a lobotomy to be as stupid as that idiot.

I have yet to meet a truly smart person who was a jerk. On the other hand, I've met plenty of idiots that acted like jerks. Maybe idiots need some type of defense mechanism to keep people from questioning their ability.

Summers, the genius who after the S&L debacle said the problem wasn't that the financial industry was regulated, it was that it was over regulated. :rofl:

"As he rose to positions of power in Washington in the 1990s, though, he became a leading defender of the Washington consensus--the idea that free financial markets, free trade and fiscal discipline would bring prosperity to the world."

http://crooksandliars.com/node/23920/print

I'd say he's in the running for the idiot of the century award.

Who is dumber - Bush or Summers? Hmm... that might be a close call.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
12. I think we need a GENERAL DISCUSSION: ANCIENT HISTORY forum!
This has been hashed, and rehashed.
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. +10²
Edited on Sat Feb-21-09 09:52 PM by PBS Poll-435
nt
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prairierose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
13. yes, I remember this...
Edited on Sat Feb-21-09 09:19 PM by prairierose
and was appalled when I realized this same guy was to be working on Obama's economic team.
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GarbagemanLB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
14. Hey guys, did you hear we landed on the moon?!?!?!
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
15. No. Sexism's still okay.
He got a bit of a raw deal, but the fact that he didn't 'get' why what he said/did is upsetting is my beef.
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camera obscura Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
16. As a woman, I have a lot of problems with Summers - but this isn't one of them.
It's way down on the list, in fact. So the guy is a condescending jerk, personally - it's his work we should be more concerned about.
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Connie_Corleone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
17. And Bush is about to be sworn in again on January 20, 2005.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
18. That was like years ago.
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
19. Please get a life
It's never too late.
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Truthiness Inspector Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. Translation: Sit down and shut up womenfolk
BeyondGeography, it's never too late for you to shut up and get a life either. In reference to the topic at hand: which insults are allowed and which aren't?



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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
22. He's going to implement OBAMA'S agenda now. n/t
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
23. Did you hear Robert Byrd was once a member of the Klan? I'm serious. He was. nt
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EmilyAnne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
26. I didn't get the outrage four years ago and I don't now. He was discussing different theories as
to why there are far fewer women in math or science careers. He used the word "might" when referring to one hypothesis concerning "innate differences" that is being considered by many scientists. He wasn't airing his personal opinions. This is about science, see? Science is not something that should be adjusted to protect someone's feelings.

A different opinion:
http://slate.msn.com/id/2112570/
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biopowertoday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. yeah yeah. Summers spent a long time doing DAMAGE CONTROL.
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EmilyAnne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. So what? Of course he did because people freaked out. I have two friends who were there.
Both female microbiologists. It is a fact that females are underrepresented in the fields of math and science. There are many theories being floated about why. Summers wasn't afraid to talk about them. How ridiculous to avoid discussing this because it might hurt someone's feelings.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
31. Innate differences, Shminate differences
These idiots never talk about what we have in common, that is, we are both capable of abstract thought and can do math.

Someday women in math will be roughtly equal to the numbers of men, when the women have been raised with less of this "innate difference" crap.

The only difference is a physical difference in the reproductive system. The rest is the same. Ten fingers, a brain, lungs, a heart. The ability to invent and create and destroy.

If as much time was spent discussing the similarities in proportion to the differences - that there are a lot more similarities than there are differences - a generation of women might grow up with the idea that they are equal!
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