Bobby Jindal is a jackass. That doesn't mean racism targeting him should be encouraged here.

[Occam Bandage]

First, referring to him as Piyush is about as subtle and amusing as the freeper's beloved "President Hussein" is. Yes, it is accurate. Yes, it is Jindal's real name. Yes, it is a racially-charged way of directing attention to his ethnicity by bypassing the name by which he prefers to be called, and by which he is publicly known. Many people, especially Asian people, adopt informal Anglo names for their everyday lives, while reserving their ethnic names for private reasons. It would be crude and obnoxious to refer to your co-worker Jane as Jinmei if she has requested everyone call her Jane.

Referring to him as "Pissy Jindal" is racist. Calling him "Gunga Dim" is very racist. Saying "I think I talked with him on a call for tech support one day" is very racist. Yet DUers have laughed and high-fived over these comments in threads that are up and open today.

I would hope, especially after having seen Republicans gleefully use our Presidential nominee's race as a target of much "humor," that we would not demonstrate that the only reason we have not acted just as disgustingly is for lack of opportunity.

[Happyhippychick]

1. I think he should embrace Piyush just as Obama should embrace Hussein. And that's not racist.

[Occam Bandage]

I'm not going to demand the right to determine people's names for them.

I'm not going to tell my Chinese friend Sarah that she needs to embrace "Xin."

My sister is legally named Margaret Rose (last name redacted). Yet everyone has called her Molly since she was very young. I don't remember how or why, but either way it's her name, though not legally. It isn't a nickname; Molly is never used by anyone as a nickname for Margaret. Everyone calls her Molly, and always has. She dislikes the name Margaret, and corrects anyone who reads her name off an official form (like a driver's license or a college transcript). I would hope that people would respect that and call her Molly; people have a right to their own names.

I once had a certain friend. Her name is Swastika Trisha (last name redacted). She is Indian, born in India, and her last name (though I omit it for her sake) is Indian as well. She chooses to go by "Trisha" for obvious reasons. If someone were to call her "Swastika" despite knowing that she prefers Trisha, that would be accurate. It would also be strongly offensive. People have a right to their own names.

Similarly, Bobby Jindal wishes to be called Bobby, and has wished that since he was four years old. Calling him "Piyush" is attracting undue attention to his ethnicity, just as calling Obama "B. Hussein" is. Claims of "accuracy" are bogus. It is racist and it is ugly.

[Happyhippychick]

15. Using somebody's name is still not "racist". I don't disagree with what you are saying, I

disagree that it is racist to call somebody by their name when it is an ethnic name. I don't agree that there is any such thing as "attracting undue attention" to one's ethnicity but if there is, then that is what is racist.

[Occam Bandage]

18. So you don't think there is anything racist in the Freepers calling Obama

"President Hussein." Sure, it's a little bit strange that they'd choose to use his middle name instead of the more commonly used "Barack" or "Obama", but it's his ethnicity, and he should embrace it!

[Happyhippychick]

23. I think everyone should be proud of their ethnicity and Obama must agree because he changed from

"Barry" back to "Barack" years ago as a way to embrace his. He also took the oath using "Hussein". I love that!

For those of us who are Jewish and had our very ethnic names watered down to "Smith" and "Jones" at Ellis Island, I guess it touches more in me than most. :)

[Occam Bandage]

50. Why do you believe you are the arbiter of what "pride in their ethnicity" entails?

How presumptuous do you have to be to say that you, and not Mr. Jindal, ought to be the one to decide both how Mr. Jindal names himself and respects his own heritage?

[Happyhippychick]

66. I'm not taking on the mantle of arbiter or being presumptuous, TYVM. I am disagreeing with you that

it is racist. You obviously don't agree with me and that's okay but you don't have to get personal.

[Occam Bandage]

70. You say it isn't racist because Bobby Jindal "needs to take pride in his ethnicity."

Why do you feel qualified to judge how others display pride in their ethnicity?

[Happyhippychick]

73. If you're going to quote me, please do it correctly. I said I THINK everyone SHOULD be proud of

their ethnicity, I am not a judgmental person who says that anyone "needs" to do anything. That is what you are doing by telling the rest of us that we are racist by calling Jindal "Piyush".

[Occam Bandage]

76. Are you saying, then, that you did not intend to imply that Bobby Jindal was not taking pride

in his ethnicity, and that in fact you were not making any judgments about Bobby Jindal and his ethnicity at all? You were, instead, speaking generally and without any reference to Jindal implied? Surely that is not right; surely I again misinterpret you. So I'll leave it open for your clarification:

It looks to me an awful lot like you were saying that you can decide he should be called Piyush because you think he should be taking pride in his ethnicity, but you assure me that isn't the case. Why, exactly, do you believe that you have the right to decide by which name Bobby Jindal should go, and what does that have to do with his level of pride in his ethnicity?

[Happyhippychick]

78. One more time! I don't think I have any "right" when it comes to Bobby Jindal and his name.

I can't control what another person does nor do I want to. I am simply refuting your belief that calling him "Piyush" is racist. It's really quite simple.

I've said the exact same thing several times now. I am not implying, inferring, judging or controlling.

[Occam Bandage]

87. And that statement is at direct odds with your claims that

Bobby Jindal should embrace the name Piyush, and that he should be proud of his ethnicity. If you do not believe you have the right to state what someone else should do vis-a-vis their name and heritage, and if you do not believe you have the right to control the name of someone else, then why do you state what he should do regarding his name and heritage, and why do you approve of calling him by a name other than that which he chooses to be called?

It is true that several times you have said, entirely reasonably, that you have no right to intrude on his ethnic identity. It is unfortunate that you have done just that, all without making the barest attempt to reconcile your actions with your statements of belief.

[Happyhippychick]

128. What "actions" have I taken? How have I "intruded on his ethnic identity"?

Have I called Jindal up on the phone and yelled at him? Have I sent him a "Dear Piyush"letter? Have I put up a giant billboard begging him to give up the whole "Bobby" thing? No, I have simply refuted that calling somebody by an ethnic name that they were born with is "racist" which is your premise. It may be disrespectful to do such a thing, it might be annoying, it might be many things. But I don't see it as racist.

[George II]

251. "Barry" was his self-chosen nickname in his youth. HE chose it, no one else did.

[snake in the grass]

289. It was only racist...

...if we would have allowed them to make it so. It is Obama's name and I didn't find it offensive. Offensive was their ignorance in thinking it would change something. The inbred and the homeschooled would not change their minds if their lives depended upon it when it comes to Obama. The rest of the country figured out what was important. Hence, McCain can continue to play the grumpy old man who bitches when you step on his grass and Palin can continue to....to do whatever it is she does.

[EFerrari]

54. Racism is a matter of context. So, yes, in some contexts it is racist

to call the president Barack HUSSEIN Obama if what you're doing is trying to call attention to his middle name as a racist slur.

Context.

[H2O Man]

178. Context.

Exactly.

[Beacool]

225. where were you during the primaries???????

If anyone brought up Obama's middle name he was chastised as being a bigot. Heck, people were even let go from campaigns for emphasizing Obama's middle name.

Oh boy, this place is just too funny sometimes.

It's OK for us to be bigoted, but not for anyone else.

:7

[George II]

249. What a person calls HIMSELF is his/her business. We don't dictate what they should call themselves.

[LanternWaste]

Although I rarely see racism on DU

"It is racist and it is ugly..."

Although I rarely see racism on DU, I see quite a bit of ugliness. Ugliness encouraged, ugliness applauded, and ugliness rewarded. Ugliness in many forms-- from clever back-handed compliments to the outright debasement of other posters.

So it should come as little surprise to anyone that when a post requests that an action cease, an action that the poster him/herself has engaged in on numerous occasions, that request will be given little more than the consideration it is due.

[urgk]

191. I appreciate the back-handed compliments...

I mean, I understand what you're talking about with the ugliness, but I appreciate the word sparring, so long as it's cleverly done. What I don't appreciate, and I think I'm agreeing with you on this, is the outright malevolence.

I was wondering, though, in regards to the second part of your reply, is that an implication that Occam has been outright ugly or just snarky?

[Peggesis1]

143. Actually Molly *is* a nickname for Margaret (not that it changes the point you're making)

FYI, so are Polly and Peggy.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

160. Re- Molly

It is a nickname for Margaret in Ireland. That and "Peg" (another nickname for Margaret).

[George II]

252. Unless Margaret has an artificial leg (bad attempt at humor, of course!)

[LaydeeBug]

183. Good. Don't try to reinvent the truth....his name is Piyush. When he gets a new name...

we'll call him that. But to say, "My real name is Piyush, but it's more politically expedient to call me Bobby" is a bit over the top, and does not deserve to be defended. I knew a guy named Piyush once. Wanna know what he went by?



Piyush.

[bushmeister0]

195. Well, judging by tenor of the majority of posts, I'd say you're crashing and buring

with your premise that calling Bobby Jendal "Piyush" (his real name) is a racist slur.

But you got got 48 recommendations and on the Greatest Threads! Good work! That's what DU is all about!

[Harry Monroe]

42. Exactly!! Why is Jindal ashamed of his heritage?

[biopowertoday]

47. Has he said he is ashamed?????

[Harry Monroe]

144. He chooses not to be called by his given name

Barack Hussein Obama, OTOH, embraced his middle name. He is not ashamed of it and neither am I!!

[biopowertoday]

153. I am not going to make the assumption that he is ashamed of his name and

neither should others. Its pure speculation-of the worst kind.

[Beacool]

227. When did he embrace it?

When he took his oath of office, before that no one dared call him by his middle name lest he/she be called racist.

The primaries and GE are not that far behind to forget how many people were taken to the woodshed for bringing up his middle name.

Please........

:eyes:

[jonestonesusa]

232. Obama is not the same as _some_ of his supporters on this issue.

In his writing as well as in his public speeches, Obama has spoken thoughtfully on the issue of his middle name as well as his ancestral heritage. (Did you ever read _Dreams From My Father_? If you haven't, you should.) And there were also quality discussions of this issue on DU, as well as harangues.

BTW, I agree with the OP for the most part, with some cautions. It should be obvious that being racist isn't a simple binary (either you are or you aren't), but you certainly don't have to be a member of the KKK to make statements or take actions that reinforce racism. We live under social structures that systematically produce unequal outcomes based on race and that encourage people to internalize assumptions of superiority/inferiority based on race. There are also standard ways that so-called minorities are put down (i.e. calling attention to the "weirdness" of their names). Plenty of people on DU, supposedly a liberal web site, want to persist on pointing out the governor's given name, insisting that he doesn't have ethnic pride, and saying this is not a racist practice. I find this to be pointless, offensive, and a distraction to the real issues needing to be discussed and solved; it also demonstrates, as Eric Holder said, that as a country we are still seeking the courage to have a thoughtful, sustained discussion about racial issues. Such discussions become simplistic and accusatory quickly, especially on the internet, even when supposedly it's liberals having the discussion, who wouldn't dare address the governor this way in person, nor would they make this point to friends or colleagues in their real lives, but they have a field day with rude statements privately at their computers.

Maybe, someday, collectively we'll learn better, but the clock has been running at least 400 years, and it's still ticking.

[Kaylee]

138. Ugh...that sounds eerily reminiscent of what was said

about President Obama when Freepers called him Hussein.

[Harry Monroe]

145. But..President Obama has embraced his middle name

He hasn't run away from it. I am proud of him for standing up and making Hussein an acceptable name once again.

[sasquatch]

159. Dude he's brown and in the south, with those two things you need to act like a guy that just has-

a really deep tan like the Boner does.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

94. obama did NOT embrace hussein till obama won the election. nt

[Beacool]

228. Bingo!!!!!

Someone who DOES remember the last few months.

:applause:

[mentalslavery]

161. Yeah, we should act like stupid assholes, just like freepers

Think, then post

[pnwmom]

171. Why? Plenty of people don't like one of their names for one reason or another.

We should just use the name people preferred to be called by.

[mamameow]

237. a rose by any other name.......

i do not care what bobby's name is, i care about his politics. he is repubic mouth piece. now another thing that i think will hurt bobby jindal. after having go round and round with sears to get some one to fix a washer, for which i have paid a service contract, i am so fed with having to talk to someone in india about my washer here. the booking of appointments are outsourced to india. how about your computer crashing and you have to decipher an indian accent because the service designed to help you has been outsourced to india. i could go on and on. i sure do not want any indian as a possible prez. i see bobby or booby or piyush or whatever his name is, i only remember my last service encounter with someone from india!!!!!!!! if that is prejudice, then that is what i am.

[kath]

241. Well, Obama at least goes by Barack and doesn't try to Anglicize it.

and he DID have his middle name used at the swearing-in.

[Kajsa]

243. That's a good point,

but it circumvents the point the OP was making and
does not excuse making racists remarks.

I'm not implying you did, however others did here.

[T Wolf]

2. Pointing out that he is not a lily-white repuke as normal for the GOP is simply calling

for them to acknowledge their racism.

I know that it does not matter to Democrats.

[Occam Bandage]

16. So Dems calling Jindal "Gunga Dim" is a statement that Republicans are hostile to brown people.

This is an interesting defense. Not a believable one, but an interesting one.

[T Wolf]

22. I am only referring to his LEGAL name, not tasteless nicknames given by immature racists

on this site.

On those, I agree that they should be off-limits.

[Occam Bandage]

55. People are called by what they choose to be called. To do otherwise is to make a statement.

To insist on calling Malcolm X "Malcolm Little" or Muhammad Ali "Cassius Clay" is a statement. To insist on calling Hillary Clinton "Hillary Rodham" is a statement. And to insist on calling Bobby Jindal "Piyush Jindal" is a statement.

[Number23]

86. To this day, alot of black people call Muhammad Ali Cassius Clay for reasons that have NOTHING to do

with racism.

As my man in "Coming to America" said, "his mama named him Clay. I'ma call him Clay."

[Occam Bandage]

101. Of course. I did not say it was a racist statement. Merely that it was a statement. nt

[The Wizard]

198. And named after

emancipationist/abolitionist and army general Cassius M. Clay.

[tigereye]

274. although I agree with you about rude and racist nick-names, fussing when

people call him by his given name is absurd. He's a Rep and a public figure.

C'mon now, this is a message board.

[saltpoint]

297. Ok, you. Stop making so much sense. Stop being clear and practical.

:thumbsup: :hi:

[tigereye]

304. someone's gotta do it!

:rofl: :hi:


it's a bad habit from being called the voice of reason when I was younger...

[Rashel]

32. I agree!

[KansDem]

3. Personally, I've no use for someone who takes his nickname from a character on "The Brady Bunch"

I don't like his politics either...

[T Wolf]

33. Except Marcia. You are talking one of the top teenage crushes for my generation, so

be respectful.

[KansDem]

72. You know, Jan Brady did it for me!

Brains and eyeglasses... What more could you ask for?!! :loveya:

But then, I always favored Bailey Quarters on "WKRP Cincinnati"



Hubba-hubba...!!!

Eve Plumb today...

:loveya:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

4. So you apologized for the chimp cartoon, but get bent out of shape over this?

Oh boy.

[Occam Bandage]

5. Apologized? I've said I don't think the author intended for the chimp to represent Obama,

but that it was obviously offensive, the racial implications should be evident to anyone, and that the Post should apologize. What does that have to do with Bobby Jindal?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

25. Consistency

People like Hifructose like to make up the rules as they go along, as it suits them.

I prefer to make my derivative decisions based upon principles, not whims. I'm with you - it was racist when people used "Barack Hussein Obama" and it's still racist when people say "Piyush Jindal".

Racism is not something that we should define as the angry mob sees fit. I believe this was precisely our argument last week - was it not?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

34. Except Piyush Jindal's his real name.

And I'm pretty sure nobody's actually claiming it means he's a terrorist.

:shrug:

[Occam Bandage]

52. Hussein is Obama's real middle name.

Didn't stop DU from getting outraged when McCain supporters said Barack Hussein Obama at their rallies.

And we should have been, because the racist intent there was clear. As it is here.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

69. Yes, but they argued it made him unamerican and a terrorist.

"And we should have been, because the racist intent there was clear. As it is here."

Gunga dim, and slumdog millionaire, sure. Piyush? Puhlease.

[Occam Bandage]

71. Many of the people insisting on "Piyush" defend themselves by claiming

that Jindal changed his name to Bobby to make himself seem more American, or alternately put to make himself look more acceptable to Americans. If they accept that, what does that imply about using Piyush as regards the extent to which he is American?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

81. That's the basis of your argument.

That "Piyush" is some sort of slur he should be ashamed of.

[Occam Bandage]

89. Not at all. The argument is that people are using Piyush as a slur.

Your attempt to ignore the context in which the name is used is sadly reminiscent of the way racists would ignore the context in which Obama's middle name is used: "What? It's his name! What, you think his name is a slur? Who's racist now!"

Frankly, I think that argument is beneath you.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

100. Breathtaking innanity.

The same people emphasizing "Hussein" were with the same breath implying that meant he was a terrorist and unamerican.

What, exactly, do you think "Piyush" is implying?

"Frankly, I think that argument is beneath you."

If that were my argument, you'd have a point.

[Occam Bandage]

103. When they complain he changed his name to Bobby to appear more American,

and when they then call him Piyush, they are implying that he is fraudulent and un-American. That is an unfair and racist use of the name.

On the other hand, if they were talking about how lovely it was that American political life was now open to so many Americans of non-European heritage, and there called him Piyush, I think that would be quite fair.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

104. They're implying his constituents would think he's unamerican.

Kind of like Michell Malkin appearing with the neo-nazi.

[Occam Bandage]

107. I fail to see a significant difference, excepting perhaps allowing for the possibility

that such posters are exploiting racial tension for political gain without accepting such racist beliefs themselves. So, you know, hurray there.

[skepticscott]

177. If by that you mean, are we trying to expose

the deep, underlying racist nature of the remaining core of the Republican party, you betcha. Is there anybody on this site using "Piyush" to refer to him that wouldn't vote for someone solely because they were of Indian extraction or had a non-American name? The only reason you can characterize his real name as a slur without getting peals of laughter is that the Freeper Nation regards it as one. Point the finger where it belongs.

[Hepburn]

259. Oh, please....

...using his real name is a slur???? How? :eyes:

[Baikonour]

168. I believe the right invoked his middle name in order to link him to terrorism.

While that may have racist implications, I don't think anyone here is trying to link Jindal with terrorism.

[Harry Monroe]

43. So who was the chimp supposed to represent?

Please do tell!

[Occam Bandage]

48. I've had this discussion many times; if you're interested in my opinion regarding that,

the "Google search DU" box in the upper-right of your DU window will help. If you're interested in derailing one conversation about race for the sake of another, I won't be receptive.

[Harry Monroe]

146. ?????????????????????

I wasn't trying to derail anything. You completely misread me!!

[spiritual_gunfighter]

129. What hifructose said

You dont think the chimp cartoon was racist but calling Bobby Jindal by his name is??? uh okay whatever you say.

[ecstatic]

83. things that make you go...

hmm....

[LynneSin]

199. Thank you for pointing this one out

Although I do agree that there is no reason for racism when talking about Bobby Jindal. As for Jindal's first name - he has never legally had his name changed from his given name to Bobby, so I find nothing wrong with using either name. Someone commented about Muhammand Ali changing his name from Cassius Clay but Ali also took the time to make that name change official.

And Hussein is Obama's middle name - I see no problem with people using Hussein except when they're trying to use it to link Obama to terrorism. Hussein is like Smith in our country - very common place.

[Wetzelbill]

6. It's not accurate

You're talking about two different things. But for other reasons I don't think people should derisively call him that.

[nichomachus]

7. Yeah -- lay off the name thing. It's stupid. WHat we should focus on

is that he did a do-it-yourself exorcism and bragged about it. That alone should have him laughed out of any room full of reasonable people.

[Occam Bandage]

11. I agree; there are tons of reasons why he shouldn't be taken seriously.

Being Indian is not one of them.

[theoldman]

13. I don't think the exorcism worked.

He should have consulted a professional. Our Catholic friends may correct me on this but I don't think the Pope believes in exorcism any more.

[nichomachus]

63. Oh no -- quote the opposite

the exorcism business is booming in the Catholic Church -- now Wotyla and Ratzinger have dragged it back to the 17th Century.

[NatBurner]

31. right? that's more than enough to mock without attacking his ethnicity

[urgk]

187. Agreed. I think it's a good idea for most subjects...

To concentrate on the provable facts that point out any Republican as damaged or incapable or hypocritical rather than calling them names. I mean, imagine this -- instead of creating threads full of "The repukes, being the rethugs they are, make me sick when they listen to Crush Limpballs..." the posters spent their time dissecting Republican policy and debunking Limbaugh's hogwash point by point.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

8. Hypocrisy On DU???

Bite thou tongue oh heathen!

[urgk]

188. Amen, brother OPERATIONMINDCRIME.

Amen...

[izzybeans]

9. I agree

my wife calls him Bobby Ray...I think I prefer the subtle irony of that one.

[specimenfred1984]

10. I'll call repigs whatever the Fk I want to call them

Personally, I don't use any racist terms for the traitors but it doesn't bother me 1 bit when others call the repukes names. Is there anything else you'd like to pompously chastise a legitimately angered public about?

[truebrit71]

20. Amen...I just like to call him by his given name..Piyush...

...if that offends your sensibilities well that's just too damn bad...

[Captain Hilts]

29. Well credit to you for not referring to him by another word...nt

[Chulanowa]

45. Well, so long as you refer to Mohammed Ali as "Cassius Clay"...

And remember that hte name is "Malcolm Little" I guess there's not a problem, right?

If someone doesn't want you to call them by their name, well, it's just polite not to do so. If you insist after they tell you not to... Well, I don't know if it makes you racist, but it certainly makes you a jackass.

[Uzybone]

79. Mohammed Ali legally changed his name

there is no comparison. Piyush is Mr. Jindals legal name. Just like Hussien is Barack Obamas middle name.

[Beacool]

235. Do you call Obama Barry or Hussein?

Same difference.........

:shrug:

[Aloha Spirit]

21. It doesn't bother you that some of us are offended by culturally ignorant comments about Jindal?

[Danger Mouse]

68. Why don't you spice it up a bit? Throw some slurs in there.

[MadBadger]

166. So you would have no problem if I called lets say Kay Baily a Cunt?

No problem? What about Steele, no problem if I called him the n word?

[urgk]

189. lol...Is that Kenneth from 30 Rock?

I can't tell if it's a joke, or really Jindal looking like a page.

I need coffee.

[Hepburn]

260. Not if her legal name was "C*nt" Bailey.

:eyes:

So it is a racial slur to call someone by his/her actual name? Oh, please. So, it was a slur to call George Bush "Dubya?" Talk to the hand, OK?

[MadBadger]

267. The Duer said that He would call Repukes whatever the fuck he wanted.

It was beyond Bobby Jindal territory at that point.

[camera obscura]

12. Thank you. K&R.

[ErinBerin84]

14. yeah

I didn't even get why people were calling him Piyush before until the other day. I understand what people are doing, but it reminds me of the freepers who call Obama "Barry" or "Hussein". There are so many other things to make fun of Bobby Jindal for, and I would find a Jindal/Palin ticket a hilarious thing to look forward to.

[atreides1]

17. Okay

When Piyush Jindal requests that we call him Bobby, I won't have any problem with it. But, just like Jinmei, he needs to ask first!

Why don't you send him an email and have him request that all DUers call him Bobby?

But I do agree with you on the clearly racist referrals to Governor Jindal!

[Occam Bandage]

19. I think the fact that he introduces himself as "Bobby" is request enough.

The facts that he's a rabid right-wing theocratic nutjob who's performed exorcisms and would happily deny his impoverished state Federal aid are good things to bring up. That he chooses to call himself Bobby instead of Piyush is not really.

[Spazito]

24. I agree with you....

His name has nothing to do with his despicable actions. The examples you give in your OP are, imo, racist in their intent.

Edited to clarify.

[Captain Hilts]

26. The name 'Hussein' has a completely different connotation than 'Piyush'.

I doubt most people here have ever heard the name Piyush and, if they have, they hold stereotypes about all folks from India - they don't differentiate Pakistanis - being really smart, wealthy and good distance runners.

Smart folks knew from the get-go that Obama's middle name would actually help him as president.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

28. I agree with you

no need to bring in racism. Jindal is a jackass, and the actions he has taken should be what is criticized.

[Captain Hilts]

He's already given us enough material as is. nt

[Starbucks Anarchist]

36. Then why'd you post the racist crap in the other thread?

[Captain Hilts]

44. To demonstrate racist crap. nt

[TheCowsCameHome]

30. Obama didn't change his name, but Jindal did.

Therein lies the difference.

I think Jindal did it to "fit in" better, especially in the south "Bobby" has a nice ring to it.

[Seen the light]

57. He did it when he was 4 n/t

[Hepburn]

261. So he is now how old?

If he wants to be Bobby Brady Jindal, then let him do it legally, OK?

[Occam Bandage]

58. He's been called "Bobby" since he was four years old.

He may have done it to fit in better, which is certainly his right, and which is done by literally millions of people with unconventional names. He certainly did not do it with a political career in mind.

I don't see a fair, non-racially-cynical reason why anyone should dispute his right to decide by what name he is called.

[jberryhill]

93. His nickname was Barry O'Bomber when he played hoops in HS /nt

O'Bomber - now there's some red meat for the Bill Ayers crowd.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

99. which is more the reason to not use the name he doesnt at all identify by. nt

[WeDidIt]

35. TRUTH!

Take on Jindal over his idiocy, not his race.

[Cash_thatswhatiwant]

37. Thank you

[backscatter712]

38. self delete

[WinkyDink]

39. I hope he doesn't think "Bobby" will engender comparisons to OUR Bobby.

[RaleighNCDUer]

40. But can i please still call him an asshole? nt

[Captain Hilts]

46. That's an observation, not an opinion, so go ahead. nt

[bunkerbuster1]

41. K&R'd but...

I smiled at "Gunga Dim." does that make me a bad person?

[starroute]

49. He's in the phone listings as "Piyush B. Jindal"

Somebody upthread suggested he'd changed his name legally. I don't think he ever did.

Look him up at veromi.com and he's listed in Louisiana as Piyush B. Jindal. I do find a couple of "Bobby Jindal" listings in Virginia which seem to be old ones for him, presumably from when he was in Congress. But Piyush is apparently still his legal name.

On edit: He did take the Louisiana oath of office as "Bobby Jindal," though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ce696mQKMU0&feature=PlayList&p=A096E1DC8E351DE2&playnext=1&index=1

[Occam Bandage]

51. And he obviously goes by "Bobby Jindal," so why does it matter to so many here

that he be called by a name he does not choose to be called?

[Aloha Spirit]

56. People think he's hiding his given name to be a more appealing candidate

He's been campaigning since 1975 in that case.

I think people are more comfortable holding prejudices against Indians than other ethnicities because they think Indians are stealing jobs.

I'd like to know how many people assume Jindal's an immigrant... those folks ought to spend some time re-evaluating their assumptions about skin color.

[EFerrari]

59. Some people are pretty comfortable with all their racist sterotypes.

lol

:hi:

[starroute]

61. The issue is one of Republican hypocrisy

Jindal was born to parents who had arrived from India just a year earlier. He was raised a Hindu and only converted to Catholicism in high school. And yet he has been known throughout his public life as "Bobby," rather than by his legal name, and does his best to present a non-exotic, all-American appearance.

Obama, in contrast, made the more difficult decision to spend his public life as "Barack" in preference to his Americanized childhood nickname of "Barry." He has been far more open about who he is and where he comes from.

There is a disjunction there, and I understand there isn't a good way to make the Republicans face up to it without the appearance of racism. But I still believe the hypocrisy should not be allowed to stand.

[Occam Bandage]

64. The problem is not Bobby Jindal's, and it is patently unfair to direct racism at him

as a way of protesting racism directed at Obama. It does not matter that he chooses to be called "Bobby," nor that he converted to Catholicism in high school, nor that he 'acts white' (as you imply, but thankfully do not outright say). These are all private things that we have absolutely no right to use as fuel for racist engines propelling us politically.

It is absolutely wrong that Republicans did so with Obama. Absolutely, 100% wrong. It is rank hypocrisy that they would do so to Obama but drop all the arguments they once claimed were right and proper once a man whom their arguments might as easily tarnish appeared in their corner.

But by the same token, it is rank hypocrisy to pick up the arguments the Republicans have quietly dropped and use them ourselves. It is true that they are hypocrites, but that doesn't mean that we should point this out by acting equally hypocritically.

It is unfortunate that such hypocrisy cannot be politely spotlighted. They have left an opening, and it would be satisfying to use it to flank them. But part of being the "good guys" is that we must have standards we will adhere to even when it would be advantageous to ignore them.

[starroute]

82. I didn't imply he 'acts white' -- only that he acts Republican

There is still a difference.

[Occam Bandage]

85. Either way. nt

[Snazzy]

176. there is some valid subtlety here to your point

Nuance even. We as a people are back in the nuance business right? The phrase 'gut reaction' needs to be tagged, bagged and withdrawn from general discourse as a source of metaphysical profundity and returned to the greasy diner from whence it came.

I, for one, have been steaming at the name bs tactic employed on Obama. Especially so since witnessing one CSpan session where I think it was the Prez of the AP (or some AP high mucketymuck) who called him Osama at the national Pres Club lunch. Just the tip of the iceberg with all the loaded (spit while ya say it guttural) Hussein stuff. Oops, he said, did I say that?, sorry. Yeah, right. 1000's more stories on his name launch. I’d bet there’s a NY Post out there with BHO in 72pt type somewhere. Noise machine appeals to the base base, Southern strat lite, wink wink, beat goes on.

But we voted and it turns out people are better than that.

Is there some political jujitsu which slings the core festering hunk of your subtle but accurate diagnosis of hypocrisy back at them? I would think smarter flacks than me could find way. Barack Hussein Obama owned his name all the way to the presidency, and, as they say, almost took it all the way to the bank, had it not collapsed just before he arrived. In my own small yet proud way I happily own my hatred of racists and in the meantime find 'holier than thou' is best a strategy for the really really long term or the really really holy--but not politics.

Hmm, but that's moot anyway, we are holier, because it is the hypocrisy (uh… stupid, or so goes the bumpersticker). Hmmm. I think I'm on Piyush "call me Bobby" till he asks me nicely or gets a legal name change, as suggested up thread. You can ascribe whatever reasons you like for my choice in this matter, but you would of course be wrong if you were to think it's racial or even some reactionary racist feedback loop or something. It's his legal name. You think Fox and Rush will ask for his birth certificate? I'll drop it then for sure.

[LynneSin]

200. He has never legally changed his name

So either is fine.

If Jindal really does not want to go by the other name he should take the time to legally switch it. According to Wikipedia his legal name is still Piyush

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Jindal#Personal_life

According to family lore, Jindal chose to re-name himself "Bobby" inspired by the sitcom character Bobby Brady after watching The Brady Bunch television series at the age of four. He has been known by his self-adopted nickname ever since—as a civil servant, politician, student, and writer—though legally his name remains Piyush Jindal.

_________________________________________________________

As for other name changes like Muhummand Ali, I believe Ali legally changed his name.

[EFerrari]

53. We call him what he calls himself. To do otherwise is just freeperish.

[Seen the light]

60. This is nothing new for some DUers

Racism, sexism, homophobia....they've all been used by various posters to undermine people they don't like. I wish it would stop really. It's a minority though.

[OKNancy]

62. Not racist, but it's trashy and stupid.

Since he is the same "race" as I am and probably you too. Indians are Caucasian.

[Occam Bandage]

65. I think we can leave outmoded racial classifications aside entirely. nt

[Danger Mouse]

67. Agreed, racism is inexcusable.

[PretzelWarrior]

74. I agree. posters here should be given a warning on such posts

and then if they fail to comply, they should be banned for a period of time. That's how strongly I feel about that type of behavior not infecting this site.

[EraOfResponsibility]

75. Occam is right, doing that puts you on the same level as freepers

and those people at McCain/Palin rallies. And I see all kinds of lame ass excuses in this thread for doing it. Bottom line: it's wrong. PERIOD.

[Runcible Spoon]

292. HA! Says YOU, the person calling people COON, BITCH, COCKSUCKER

You are a FUCKING HYPOCRITE.

[Uzybone]

77. If you were not one of the few hell-bent of defending the racist cartoon

you'd have a bit more credibility on this. But to ignore the messenger, the OP is correct. Making jokes at Piyush Jindals' name is completely out of bounds IMO.

Calling him Piyush is fine, because it is his legal, birth given name. I'm pretty sure thats what his parents and wife call him. Bobby is a name he picked out of thin air at the age of 4.

[Occam Bandage]

80. I don't see how that follows.

Never mind the distracting attack on "credibility," which has little to do with my arguments.

If you believe that I have an absurdly high willingness to grant potentially racist authors the benefit of the doubt, wouldn't it then follow that when I see something as unambiguously racist, that you ought be more, and not less, likely to pay attention? When a person believes there is a problem, wouldn't you believe it is more likely that their concerns are justified if they have in the past trended towards ignoring problems you find valid rather than having trended towards claiming problems where you find none exist?

Me, I'm far more interested when I see someone arguing a point I know is generally out of their character to accept, then when I see someone arguing a point I know they frequently and habitually argue.

[Uzybone]

84. We agree more than we disagree

I disagree with you that Piyush is some sort of epithet or attack on Gov. Jindals ethnicity. Its his legal name and there is absolutely nothing with calling him that.

I agree the Dunga Dim and Pissy and go to India cracks are repulsive and racist and should be stopped.

The attack on your credibility is a bit of a red herring in this discussion but I still wonder why you can be rightfully unhappy about racist names thrown at Jindal, yet give a pass to a brutally racist cartooon.

[Number23]

90. Completely agree.

Your whole post is gold, particularly OB's strange and adamant support of the NY Post cartoon.

Piyush is his name. It's not a slur, and especially not in the same way that right-wingers tried to tie Obama to Islam and terrorism by accentuating his middle name.

I haven't seen any of the other racist comments about Jindal re: call center BS but anyone doing anything like that needs an @sswhipping.

[PretzelWarrior]

92. YOU ARE LYING

there is no way he was SUPPORTING the cartoon. many of us who didn't see a specific racist intent in that cartoon were nonetheless unhappy with the crude and ridiculous piece of "art" or "political commentary" or whatever you want to call it.

I'm not going to apologize for expressing my views of how the cartoon struck me, and I'm not out to demonize those who DID clearly see racist intent.

I think you should quit while you're behind and drop it. GET OVER IT.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

95. He was totally supporting the cartoon.

OP has no credibility when it comes to discussing race issues.

[Name removed]

96. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

102. Denying it's racist = supporting the cartoon.

The OP denied it was racist. At least in some instances. Other times he slipped up and admitted it was racist, before denying it again.

Ergo, he supported the cartoon.

[Occam Bandage]

105. My position's been quite consistent. If you've been unable to decipher

positions more complex than "completely agrees with HFPS" and "completely disagrees with HFPS," that is your problem and not my own.

I believe the cartoon is racially insensitive, it is offensive, it is reminiscent of racist iconography, and it was most likely not intended with racist intent (as I do not believe the chimpanzee was intended to represent Obama specifically), but instead was the unfortunate result of running a commonplace comparison between two news stories without concern for what further inferences people might draw.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

108. Your position's consistent in being completely full of shit.

You keep dodging racism with nonsense like "racially insensitive." You ignore the cartoonist's previous incidents of bigotry when conjecturing he didn't intend it. Generally, make the same insipid argument every racist makes when they defend blatanly racist material.

You cannot expect to be taken seriously.

[Name removed]

110. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

111. Ah, but you're one of the people defending the racist cartoon.

So everybody whose opinion matters already knows that yours doesn't.

[Occam Bandage]

116. And you're one of the people defending the racist use of the name Piyush.

So hurrah.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

118. No, I'm the one who doesn't think the name Piyush is racist and unamerican.

In fact, it seems you've once again contradicted yourself and agreed with that.

[Occam Bandage]

120. Nope. I think it's a beautiful name and am disgusted that people would use it as a racist smear.

Much as I was with Obama's middle name. I am equally disgusted that you would defend that racism, even when the same people are unambiguously saying racist things like "Gunga Dim" and referencing call centers.

[Occam Bandage]

113. Racial insensitivity is not nonsense.

It is entirely possible, and it is quite frequent, for justified offense to be caused not through malicious intent, but rather through ignorance of the likely results of one's actions. If, as I suggest, the cartoonist did not intend to compare Obama to a chimpanzee, but rather created the cartoon without thinking about the possibility that people would see such a comparison, then I believe that in this particular case (without making any general statements as to his character) he is racially insensitive without being racist. If you deny such a thing as racial insensitivity, but instead believe that all offenses related to race ought be called "racism," then I will agree with you that the cartoon is racist under your definition, but that is not the term as I understand it. If you believe it is absolutely impossible that people could cause offense without intending to, you are deluded.

I hardly ignore his incidents of homophobia, and in fact invoked them in many of my arguments. In those incidents, he was clear and unambiguous in his labeling, his intent, and his context. I think those harm, and do not help, your claim that he unambiguously intended a racial subtext to this particular comic.

[Baikonour]

172. Just as you believe the artist had no racist intent

I believe that DU'ers using Bobby's real name have no racist intent.

[PretzelWarrior]

106. you need some logic lessons.

denying something is racist is not the same as supporting it.

So if I see a congressman's statement that says all women should be denied abortions, and someone says that is somehow racist and I take the position it is in now way racist, I now support the statement that all women should be denied abortions?


You're one of the conformist shock troops saying anyone disagreeing with any finer points of an argument made by a strong vocal minority should be deemed as "having no credibility on the issue".

Welcome to the Republican Party. You'll fit right on.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

109. Denying racism, when it's racist, is supporting it.

Kind of like how Civil War revisionism is invariably racist.

Or denying the holocaust is anti-semitic.

"Welcome to the Republican Party. You'll fit right on."

Hey, I'm not the one defending the racist Republican propaganda.

[Name removed]

112. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

121. Maybe I am a dipshit loser.

But at least I'm not a coward and a racist.

[Occam Bandage]

122. Judging that you're absurdly defending unambiguous racism in this thread, yes, you are.

Calling an Indian person "Gunga Dim" is racist. Drawing attention to their birth name and not their chosen name in the next breath is racist.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

132. I haven't defended racism.

Unlike you and the racist cartoon, I agree that "Gunga Dim" is racist.

[Occam Bandage]

134. Sure you have. You're repeatedly and preposterously claiming

that people using Piyush cannot be using it as a smear, despite the fact that in many cases these are the exact same people who are calling him "Pee-ush," "Pissy," and "Gunga Dim," and who are claiming that he only calls himself Bobby to look, and I quote, "all-American."

To say that this is not done with racist intent is absolutely absurd.

If you wanted to claim that Piyush has legitimate uses as well as racist uses, that would be a fine argument, but that isn't the argument you've made. (In fact, you've claimed that even suggesting that people might use Piyush in a racist manner is itself racist.) Perhaps an argument of ambiguity is the argument that you wanted to make, but your allergy to nuance made it impossible for you to do so.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

136. I'm not claiming that people could not use it as a smear.

I'm saying it depends on the context.

Something you eventually changed your mind on.

[nakanishi oshi]

208. Most cartoonists thought it was tasteless, but not racist

In fact, Columbia Journalism Review interviewed several cartoonists and only one out of about 6 of them saw racism in it. The link to that story is here: http://www.cjr.org/behind_the_news/strip_tease.php

[Number23]

114. You need to get a DAMN grip

And since no one was talking to you in the first damn place, there is no need for you to "apologize for expressing my views of how the cartoon struck" you.

OB's posts on the cartoon were fairly obvious. If you choose not to see that, that is entirely your choice.

[Occam Bandage]

115. I find it somewhat fitting

that you choose to ignore what I have actually said in favor of a more salacious interpretation of my intent.

[Number23]

119. OB, I know what I saw. And that's that.

The issue here is about Jindal. I agree with you that racist comments ie referencing "call centers" are completely unnecessary and idiotic. But I disagree that using Jindal's birth name is a slur in the same vein as right-wingers calling attention to Hussein.

[Name removed]

125. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Occam Bandage]

127. I appreciate your support, but that is not helpful. nt

[PretzelWarrior]

130. I understand. I am just so mad at people today

we are a country full of idiots. maybe I count myself in that number. but for a person to say that referring to the guy's Indian name when he prefers his chosen name of Bobby is clearly meant to be provocative just as Hussein was. It is sad to know we count within our numbers a lot of the same racist people who will stoop to whatever level to undermine someone purely because they are "from the other side" as it were.

[Number23]

135. I'm a black woman. So how you think you can include me in your list of racists I don't get.

But it's obvious that you don't get it either.

Hussein is Obama's name. His actual BIRTH name. It is also an Arabic name during a time of intense anti-Arabic and anti-Muslim sentiment among large segments of our population. It was also unfortunately the name of a president of a country that we had bombed the living crap out of under the pretense of "spreading democracy."

If you genuinely don't see the difference between right-winger's use of Hussein as a deliberate attempt to tie Obama with the same group of people these idiots have decided are our enemies, then you are every bit beyond hope and salvation as your posts in this thread suggest.

Piyush is imo a beautiful Asian name. It does not have anywhere near the negative connotation as Hussein had and which the Repubs were so desperately hoping that the TRULY racist amongst us would latch on to as an example of how "dangerous" Obama was. So if folks want to call Bobby Jindal Priyush, I stand by my belief that it does not have the same stigma as calling Obama Hussein. Is it an effort to highlight how "foreign" he may be? No doubt. But does it have the same stigma as Repubs were hoping "Hussein" did? Not even close.

[PretzelWarrior]

140. you are self deluding.

while all of the points you mention about the added case around the name Hussein are true, it doesn't take away from the fact that people here and elsewhere who choose to use Jindahl's real name are doing so against his wishes and with a veiw to "exoticizing" him so he seems like "other" and not one of us.

Same church different pew.

[Number23]

141. He is referred to CONSTANTLY as Piyush "Bobby" Jindal.

Both officially and unofficially. Alot of international organizations don't even use "Bobby" when referring to him.

You need to stop projecting whatever the hell it is you're projecting.

[nakanishi oshi]

220. On the contraty. virtually no media outlet calls him Piyush

Following his speech very few media outlets, if any, used his Indian name.

MSNBC called him Bobby only: http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/02/25/1807744.aspx

The Times-Picayune called him Bobby only: http://www.nola.com/news/index.ssf/2009/02/gov_bobby_jindal_says_debt_wil.html

Politico called hoim Bobby only: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0209/19283.html

The Washington Post called him Bobby only: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/24/AR2009022404300.html?hpid=topnews

[MADem]

302. Sorry. It does.

The intent behind calling the man something other than the name he is known by, the name that he used to take his oath of office, is to stigmatize him, to single him out as an 'other'--as in 'not American.' 'Not one of US.'

Bobby's parents have been calling him Bobby since he was four. He runs for office as Bobby. He introduces himself as Bobby. He took his oaths of office as Bobby. Bobby is the name he uses in his public and political life.

Bobby is a common Indian nickname, too. Google "Bobby Daol." Bollywood callling! There are singers, actors, directors, cinematographers, sports figures, all Indian and calling themselves Bobby. There's even an Indian country singer who calls himself "Bobby Cash."


Hussein is a beautiful Arabic name. In fact, it means "beautiful" or "handsome." The name is popular in Southwest Asia, North Africa and the Arab and Muslim world. However, when the GOP emphasized it, even when they didn't mispronounce Obama as Osama, we knew where they were going. And they weren't going to 'It's a Beautiful Name' land. Neither is anyone who persists in using Piyush when Bobby Jindal prefers to be called Bobby.


Being black, or Asian, or Arab, or a member of any race or culture doesn't "inoculate" a person from being a racist. Anyone can be a racist. No one is exempt.

Suggesting that the stigma or the "negative connotation" isn't as bad as what Obama put up with acknowledges that the stigma or connotation is there. Two wrongs don't make a right. Xenophobia is an ugly thing. Using the name to disrespect the man is wrong. Calling him something other than the name he goes by in his daily life is also wrong.

He's target rich because of his stances on the issues. No need to name call. It's just wrong.

[Number23]

131. You actually think? You should start doing it before you post then.

Might make you worth actually reading... for a change....

[PretzelWarrior]

133. yes. I apologize for the name calling. it's been a tough week to watch

and what I can't stand is the way so many have to pile on to Occam Bandage about this post. It is valid. Leave it be. There were PLENTY of people who didn't SUPPORT that NYPost cartoon but who nonetheless didn't find in it a maliciously racist intent that others saw. And for that we're to be branded by others? FUCK THAT! THis isn't a concentration camp. We all post our opinions.

You may disagree with him on that, but that thread or series of threads happened and is over. Don't use the opportunity of this new point to raise the same issue again. It is counterproductive. It undermines a very good point in his original post.

[Occam Bandage]

126. I fail to see how you could claim it is not racist in the same vein,

when it is used in the same way, with the same justifications, and is often sandwiched by the unambiguously racist comments I've mentioned above. People have the right to choose their own name. Referring to them by any other name is a deliberate statement, and there are few positive statements that could be made in this case.

[Raineyb]

117. No she's not.

He was totally defending that cartoon. Which makes the OP rather amusing in that "well check out the irony" sort of way.

And you have a hell of a nerve telling someone to get over it. Why don't you take your unsolicited advice?

Regards

[Occam Bandage]

124. You want to talk about irony? Look at the people defending unambiguous racism due to their distaste

with my belief that the intent of cartoon in question was ambiguous.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

137. OK, let's talk about irony.

Many of the people actually using racist slurs like "gunga dim" and "scumdog millionarie" have been your compatriots in defending the unambiguously racist cartoon.

[Occam Bandage]

98. I'm willing to accept that there are fair contexts for the use of Piyush.

However, I think there are many unfair contexts for its use as well. When it appears sans any context whatsoever, we have a shady ground in which I would prefer we avoid any appearance of racism, founded or unfounded.

If you're wondering about the cartoon, well, I think the cartoon would have been brutally racist had I believed the chimpanzee was intended to represent Obama. Again, this is a question of ambiguous context. Certainly I think the cartoon was offensive (it is impossible to argue it did not cause offense), that anyone involved in its publication should have seen the ambiguity and decided against running it, and that the Post ought to have apologized for running it. But after weighing the context of the actual story of the Xanax chimpanzee against the context provided by this nation's long history of apelike depictions of African-Americans, I came to the belief that the cartoonist did not intend to reference Obama directly in his cartoon, and therefore was negligent instead of malicious.

[MADem]

301. His parents call him Bobby, and they have since he was four years old.

Didn't you listen to his awful speech? He mentioned his father calling him "Bobby."

FWIW, Bobby is a common Indian nickname. It's a cultural bridge name. There are movie stars and singers, weight lifters and even an Indian porn star with that name.

[Chorophyll]

88. K&R. We should be above straying into Limbaugh territory. nt

[jberryhill]

91. I think it is remarkable that Louisianans were broad minded enough to elect him

Politics aside, it's commendable that Louisiana voters were not put off by the guy with the "funny name".

I still chuckle about voting for a guy named Barack Hussein Obama - and he won! I giggle every time I think about that.

Reminds me of the old Smucker's slogan - "With a name like Smucker's, it has to be good."

[Clio the Leo]

139. Unfortunately, that was negated by the fact that they wasted their votes on a Republican. NT

[KamaAina]

273. A white-flight suburb of New Orleans had a Chinese sheriff for decades

Parts of it, along with most of the city proper, now have a Vietnamese Congressional rep, and of course, an Indian governor. All repukes. :puke:

Broad-mindedness has nothing to do with it. Sheriff Harry Lee violated the civil rights of African Americans with at least the same frequency as any white Southern sheriff. And Rep. Joseph Cao was joined at his victory party by two prominent white City Council members, after he defeated African American Rep. Bill Jefferson.

edit: news reports generally use Rep. Cao's given name Anh, with "Joseph" in quotes. How, exactly, is that different from Jindal?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

97. i think he is detestable but i think people who use piyush to point out his foreign-ness are too

[bluedawg12]

149. You are absolutely right.

The list grows and keeps growing, we keep attacking the messanger and not the message and in the process it starts to sound freepy.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

150. It's as if they've learned NOTHING from this past election. (n/t)

[Colobo]

123. Excellent post. We can't do the same shit Freeps do and pretend it's OK.

If Gov. Jindal calls himself Bobby, then let's call him Bobby. No need to make reference to his ethnicity by mentioning his rarely mentioned name.

[rvablue]

151. Here, here! And the whole story about why he chose that nickname is ridiculous enough

why wouldn't we, anyway?

And, besides that, some of the other shit is downright racist-sounding and we are better than that!

[sufrommich]

142. I haven't looked at the posts you mention,but it sounds

just like a Sarah Palin rally. Weird and tacky.

[Numba6]

147. how 'bout Bollywood on the Bayou?

Is that racist or just a mouthful?

[kiva]

148. Kick in the hope that some of people flinging the

racist bullshit tonight might stop.

[biopowertoday]

154. and a bump for your good thought.

[nsd]

152. K & R!

Well said. I agree completely. The way some on this board have used Jindal's ethnicity to marginalize him has been disturbing, especially given the tactics Republicans used against Barack Obama last year. I'm a Democrat, in part, because I think (hope) we're better than that. We should be better than that.

[quiet.american]

155. Agreed. nt

[fortyfeetunder]

156. I agree. Attack Gov. Jindal on the issues only.

From his performance tonight, he should have many opportunities to place on the DU Top Ten Conservative Idiots for the rest of his political career!

[bertman]

157. I love these threads where all of us tolerant DU'ers get all pissy about people making

fun of other people.

Get over it folks. Funny is funny.

[PretzelWarrior]

164. no it dam well isn't

yes, there are some who laugh at funny cartoons of an African American looking like a monkey, and there may be some odd, striking bit about the cartoon that seems funny.

But usually our more understanding side kicks in and we realize how dangerous and bad it is do reinforce stereotypes and dehumanize with sick code words.

Then funny isn't just funny anymore, it is vindictive and dehumanizing.

[Seen the light]

165. What's funny about using Piyush instead of Bobby?

Har har har, that's brilliantly funny! These people should go write for The Daily Show or SNL! :sarcasm:

[urgk]

185. Dont' think of it as getting pissy.

Think of it as ensuring that when we complain about the Republican attempts to debase President Obama we have a leg to stand on. If we complain about their use of "Hussein," let's err on the side of caution with Jindal.

[cbc5g]

213. No it's his and others chance to show others how tolerant they are

They aren't tolerant of plenty of folks in this country and they know it.

[PVnRT]

283. Yes, trying to elicit a racist response from Republicans and others is hi-larious

[remedy1]

158. Has anyone seen his birth certificate?

Lighten the fuck up...

[PBS Poll-435]

162. Proud to Rec this

What is going on here at DU where this type of bizarre racism is allowed.

[gmudem]

163. I agree.

There's plenty to mock about this guy without bringing up his race.

Like the fact that he is a complete clown that delivered a very Bush-like speech tonight and even Fox News couldn't find anything good to say about it.

[Grinchie]

167. He's an Aparatchik, plain and Simple, just like Lingle.

He, like all the rest of the Rpug interviewees are being shown the door very quickly.

[MichaelHarris]

169. you mean

Bobby "boom goes the dynamite" Jindel?

[Two Americas]

170. agreed

Well stated, and it needed to be said.

Thank you.

[Baikonour]

173. Google news search "Piyush Jindal"

You'll find a handful of news sites and papers referring to him as such.

I suppose we can just write them all off as racist too.

[nakanishi oshi]

230. But a google news search of "Bobby Jindal" gives you many, many more

Shouldn't that tell you that by avoiding Piyush so frequently the media implies that this name would be inflammatory?

[w4rma]

174. Piyush Jindal is his name. Barack Hussein Obama is President Obama's name.

The use of either name is NOT, in any way shape or form, racist in this context.

Note, that NY Post cartoon was blatantly racist and the intent of the cartoon was meant to be racist. The cartoonist's response to the outrage and the cartoonist's history proved it.

[DWilliamsamh]

175. Hear, hear

We cannot adopt the ugliest aspects of Republican character. All I have to say is I am glad I didn't actually said the threads to which you are referring

[Optical.Catalyst]

179. Bobby Jindal is a Republican idiot and a puppet for the rich and powerful that want their power back

Putting him before the voters of the United States is an insult to intelligent people, and Bobby Jindal deserves every insult that he receives.

[druidity33]

180. can i call him a little weasel?

Are we allowed to call him names at all?

Because you know, as an adult on a message board, that's really what some of us do best...

If the name calling has nothing to do with his heritage, only his stupidity, is that ok?


:shrug:

[urgk]

184. Let me check the history of derisive cartoons...

To make sure no one has ever...EVER...used a weasel as a derogatory visual slang for people of Indian descent.

Then you can. ;-)

[druidity33]

231. thank you...

I'd appreciate a prompt disclosure of your research as i'd dearly love to continue calling Mr Jindal a little weasel, but i don't want anyone to take offense...

:)


edit: spelling error... and upon reflection, i guess it's ok to call him a jackass as that's in the title of the OP!


Jindal's a jackass!

ah, that felt good.


;)

[nc4bo]

181. Thank you for saying what needs to be said.

All of it IS racist or at the very least has extremely racist undertones.

I've become extremely uncomfortable with some of the Jindal comments I've been seeing here lately. I'm extremely sensitive when it comes to racism and bigotry and have dealt with it throughout my childhood and adult years and I can assure you that it doesn't take me long to identify these types of people. I'm seeing it here, now and it needs to stop.

DU is better than that.

Jindal is horrible for so many obvious reasons but his race is not one of them.

[urgk]

182. Agreed.

Here's a summary of my thoughts on the topic.

1. "Gunga Dim" is racist.
2. For those of you who believe otherwise, I am 100% in favor of debate on the subject. Try to convince me it isn't. I'll try to convince you it is. And that's the nature of political discourse.
3. There is ample room for Occam to defend those who called the chimp cartoon's overt racism into question and to still believe there is racism inherent in the use of Gov. Jindal's ethnic-sounding name.
4. We lose moral ground on the Barack "Hussein" Obama front if it even appears we are doing the same to Gov. Jindal.

And thank you Occam, for encouraging actual discussion.

[DallasNE]

186. I View It As A Matter Of Character

Jindal has run away from his heritage by changing his religion to Christian and adopting an Americanized nickname. This inferiority complex reflects on his character. Calling him "Gunga Dim" does disturb me so I do agree on that level.

As an IT consultant I worked with plenty of Indians and not one of them switched religion nor adopted an Americanized nickname. They were proud of their ethnic background. But then none of them had political ambitions either and this is what this is all about.

[Rockholm]

190. Here's a story, of a man named Brady...

Damn, he named himself after Bobby Brady on the Brady Bunch?

[saltpoint]

192. Jindal is in the uncomfortable position of attacking a popular president.

He was in the further uncomfortable position of trying to address voters after Obama had run the board with such a powerful, persuasvie, beautifully-delivered address.

And Jindal is weakened considerably by his having nothing to say to address specific and actual financial crises U.S. citizens now face.

His failure to connect is notable because he had been advertised as a potential GOP presidential candidate. That meme took quite a hit last night.

It is very difficult to believe that the Republican Party, no matter how pathetic it often is to us, could not have rounded up a speech writer or two to assist in Jindal's rebuttal. I heard exactly zero points to stand against Obama's pertinent and urgent address.

It was a comprehensive failure on several levels, not least the communicate-to-voters level.

The spiral staircase in the background, for example, really did invoke the Southern plantation architecture and the overt institutional racism that went with it, as if the set had been borrowed from GONE WITH THE WIND, as DUer Condem pointed out. For "racism," you can't really beat a plantation of the antebellum South.

People need jobs. Jindal, in lieu of offering support to assist those without jobs, instructed us to reject the monitoring of volcanoes.

[bushmeister0]

193. Gosh, I wonder what inspired this post?

Funny this gets put on the front page. Asking what people know about this guy, apparently, isn't something the powers that be at DU care about. The racism angle is way more sexy!

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/bushmeister0/76

[Occam Bandage]

211. The thread entitled "PISSY JINDAL FOR POTUS '12!" nt

[ClarkUSA]

194. What's racist about it? Do you have proof that Jindal is offended at being called his birth name?

I know plenty of people with foreign birth names and believe me, they don't think it's racist to be called their birth name at all.
I am sure he's called Piyush by his family. Are they being racist, too?

[IsItJustMe]

196. Go beat up on yourself. I have no idea what you are talking about. Maybe you are projecting.

[4_TN_TITANS]

197. I could care less what his race is, agreed - he's a jackass n/t

[baldguy]

201. K&R - Leave the slimy bigotry to the conservatives.

It suits them better.

[Stuckinthebush]

202. Agreed

Thank you for the refreshing critical analysis. We all need to be aware of our racist, classist, and sexist tendencies.

[nakanishi oshi]

203. I have Chinese friends that call themselves "John" and "Stephanie"

Chinese people often adopt American names

I had several friends of Chinese origin in college, who when asked their names by the professor, they'd answer "John" or "Stephanie" because they had a Chinese name and what they called "my american name".

And this is not because they hate themselves. It is for practical reasons, they use names that are easier to pronounce and spell in bthis country.

[LanternWaste]

204. nice, appropriate, righteous ways to insult someone...

Yeah... there's nice, appropriate, righteous ways to insult someone, and then there are inappropriate ways to insult someone...? :silly:


Either it's wrong to insult and debase a person, or it's not wrong.

The justifications on the "correct and progressive" forms to insult a person are just that-- justifications; as they all share in common the same end result.

[Richardo]

205. Well said, Occam

:K&R

[mntleo2]

206. Racism is a cancer on this country

...we may disagree with one another, but if we do disagree, THE ISSUES are what we need to talk about, *NOT* use any reference to race, culture, religion, or ethnic backgrounds as somehow "epitomizing" that person's stance. Besides weakening any argument against the issue, it makes the commenter look like an idiot who cannot find anything else but race as the reason for their disagreement.

If there is anyone being racist, STOP IT! You not only continue the racist and sexist policies in this country, which cause enough misery and denigrates people, you look like an idiot.

Cat In Seattle

[Skinner]

207. The comparison between calling Obama "Hussein" and Jindal "Piyush" seems obvious to me.

I'm kind of surprised there is anyone here denying the obvious parallel. Maybe there is a difference in degree. (Maybe.) But the basic intent in both cases seems obvious: Ridicule a person because they have a funny name.

I'm not going to call anyone racist. But I do think there are some people here who are willfully disregarding how their comments may be perceived by others. At a minimum, it seems insensitive to me.

There are plenty of people here to are trying to claim that it is okay to call Jindal "Piyush" instead of his preferred name, "Bobby." I have read all of the arguments, but I've found them unpersuasive.

Instead of arguing that it is okay, I would appreciate it if someone would explain why they personally have chosen to call Jindal "Piyush" instead of "Bobby." Simply saying "Because it's his name" isn't an answer. There must be a reason why some people are deliberately choosing to refer to him by his given name instead of his preferred name. Why are you making that choice? What are you trying to accomplish?

[Occam Bandage]

209. I am gladdened to see your response. nt

[saltpoint]

214. Because it is his name is an answer, Skinner.

Obama claimed and asserted his rightful heritage, including his name.

Piyush "Bobby" Jindal runs from his.

Who's the racist in a case of politically manipulative self-loathing?

---
edit: typo

[Skinner]

215. Allow me to re-phrase that sentence:

Simply saying "Because it's his name" isn't a complete answer.

Here's the more important part: Why are you making that choice? What are you trying to accomplish?

What message are you trying to send?

[saltpoint]

216. You shift blame for Jindal's manipulative public self-disinheritance

on others when the blame belongs at his own feet.

What is Jindal's, not someone else's, motive for that disinheritance?

[Skinner]

218. Jindal's motives are irrelevant to my question. I want to know your motives. (nt)

[saltpoint]

221. I get your intent to shift the question, but the question remains.

Which of the two people of whom you're asking this question harbors distinct political ambitions?

And why would you ignore Obama's assertion of his cultural heritage, including his name, and give Jindal a pass for fleeing from his?

Both men are in public service. I pick the Obama model, which shifts the question back to Jindal, where it belongs.

[Skinner]

224. The fact that you continue to dodge the question...

...is really hurting your argument.

[saltpoint]

226. Ok. You ask for intent for calling a man by his rightful name, which

infers racism as intent by those doing so.

That's a bit presumptuous.

You permit posters calling Republicans "shitheads" and "dickheads" and various other vulgar terms without a blink of an eye. But they're "racists" for calling Piyush Jindal 'Piyush Jindal."

And again, Obama asserted his heritage and publicly declared having drawn strength from it. Posters here would honor Jindal's heritage. It is Jindal who has abandoned it.

IMO you missed that point coming in.

[druidity33]

234. Do you think you are

honoring his heritage when you call him Piyush Jindal? I'm actually on your side on this (i think) because i believe calling someone by their given name is appropriate when we are not familiar enough with him socially to call him "Bobby", Robert maybe, Bobby... no. I think we can do that without implying the name Piyush makes him different/foreign/strange. I'm just curious as to your answer. If he had legally changed his name, i would have a different opinion. All the same, how would we all have felt if Barack had insisted everyone call him Barry?


Really, everyone should be calling him Governor Jindal. Unless you're a reporter or biographer maybe.

I still reserve the right to call him little weasel though...

:)


edit: oops, stupid keyboard misspelling stuff...

[saltpoint]

295. He is the Governor, certainly. I would have preferred the Democratic

candidate, although of course that is for Louisiana voters to decide.

I'm not seeing Jindal advancing on the national front much even before last night, and now even less.

[newtothegame]

244. Hope you don't get tombstoned for speaking your mind. gl. n/t

[Skinner]

254. You still haven't answered my question.

What is your reason for calling him Piyush instead of Bobby?

[saltpoint]

296. I'm a bit reluctant to respond to your question, inasmuch as it was asked

in the context of inferring that I am racist for calling Jindal by his actual name.

I would have thought you could understand the distinction between Barack Obama, a man of mixed heritage, owning his heritage proudly, which includes his name by the way, and Piyush Jindal, who has opted to obscure his heritage in the American-friendly "Bobby," said to be borrowed from a Brady Bunch cast member.

You insist that your question alone is the driving point of the question at hand, and it is not.

Traditionally in dialogue and conversation, one must share the words and ideas.

It takes at least 2 to do that, David. Inferring that others on your site have racist intent isn't a real good way to participate in a conversation.

[skepticscott]

294. So what exactly IS the objection here?

It can't be that it is the policy of this web site that people should only be called by the name that they themselves prefer, since eight years of "Dubya", "Dumbya", "Chimpy" and a whole slew of other appellations to the President of the United States were allowed to pass without sanction.

And it can't be that there is any racist intention in calling Piyush Jindal by his given name. Since presumably everyone here who isn't lurking Freeper scum voted for a black man named Barack Hussein Obama, WE'RE not the ones who would be disinclined to vote for "Bobby" simply because he has a foreign-sounding name and a non-Western European background.

As far as the comments being misperceived...by whom? To whom is it insensitive? Besides, as long as people like Jindal and his Republican cohorts have anything to say about it, we will never live in a country where it doesn't matter what someone's name is. That's the country I want to live in, and if we have to hold up the Republican's ugly and deep-seeded racism for close and unpleasant examination to make it that way, so be it. THAT'S what this is all about.

[druidity33]

298. not sure you'll get an answer...

Skinner's trying to make a point... i think.

:shrug:

[saltpoint]

299. Agree. I think he has a genuinely strong point to make but

stumbles badly in making it in the context of an inference of racist intent among some posters.

I don't find that particular context especially clarifying. I would hunch that he wouldn't care to have that inference made about him.

[slackmaster]

210. Hypocrisy on racism is an institution on DU

:shrug:

[cbc5g]

212. Whatever hypocrite

And you know you are.

[Waiting For Everyman]

217. I think this is the silliest priggishness.

I couldn't even imagine finding a tangent like this to get all wrapped up in, on a magnificent night like last night.

It really reminds me of grade school. Adults do not need the lectures and gratuitous editing. Were there no mods to "alert" to, if this is such a big deal? Did they all resign last night?

We all watched the RW party self-destruct last night in awesome hilarity, minutes after a magnificent night for President Obama. The back-to-back contrast was incredible.

If some people here happened to offend your fine sensibilities with their gloating, it's long overdue, and well-justified. Admit it. THAT was the point.

[blueraven95]

242. there is nothing wrong with gloating

in fact, it's expected.


It's the way the gloating is happening that is the problem. We condemned the Republicans for trying to assert a link between Obama and the terrorists because of his middle name. Why is it okay for us to try and make Gov. Jindal the "scary other" because of his name? I can't see how anyone can be ethically or morally comfortable with that. Besides promoting xenophobia, it makes us more than petty and vicious.

[Waiting For Everyman]

257. Do you think "Barack" is an "American" name?

Is "Obama"? Connecting someone to terrorism (i.e. Saddam HUSSEIN) is a little different than this tempest in a teapot.

Lots of pols have foreign backgrounds and foreign names. Jindal doesn't deserve this extra-special kid-glove consideration just because he does too.

How about Jindal's shameless (failed) attempt to identify himself with Pres. Obama's story? Didn't anybody notice THAT? He was overtly trying to USE his son-of-an-immigrant background. I'm surprised he didn't state himself during his speech that his original name is Piyush. He did everything BUT state that, in making the point.

(It wouldn't shock me if he did that too, but someone with some political awareness probably edited it out for him.)

[blueraven95]

271. I think you are misdirecting.

This has nothing to do with whether or not Obama's name is an "American" name (whatever the hell that means).

This is about how rude it is to call someone by a name other than what they prefer to be called, in an attempt to point out how that person is different from "us". It is fear mongering, and absolutely no different from trying to connect Obama to terrorists, because of his name. The fact that Obama is clearly proud of his heritage and Jindal may or may not be does not matter. The intent is still the same.


Calling Jindal "Piyush" rather than "Bobby" also has the added effect of underscoring and highlighting his claim to "son-of-an-immigrant" background. You'd be better off calling him Bobby, if you are trying to point out that he has attempted disassociate himself from that background (which I don't know if he has, but that is the point you appear to be making). The name Bobby is so "American" that it makes it harder for those talking about him to think of him as anything other than an American.

It seems to me that you are trying to argue it both ways. You (and I am speaking to the general you, who are using Piyush) are subtly arguing that he is some other, because of his non-American heritage, and is therefore suspect, and you are trying to argue that he is so American, that he is not allowed to claim his son-of-immigrant status, also making him suspect. In this case, I don't think you can have it both ways.


Simply, I think that there are many, many other, better ways to attack and defeat this guy. This is so petty that most people will see it as pettiness and it won't work - and will probably hurt the case for all of the other complaints about him. It didn't work when Republicans tried it on Obama, and it won't work here.

[Waiting For Everyman]

279. No, I'm simply saying that I don't care what he prefers. Why should I?

Since when do I need to find out what some politician prefers, before making a comment or laughing at the idiotic things they do, such as last night's hilarious performance by Jindal? I don't know him, and I don't care what he thinks about what name he wants to be called. Same with W., Cheney, Mooselini, or any other lame RW paragon of cluelessness.

That's very equitable of me, I'd say. They all suck equally regardless of origin, so as the little old lady in the old commercial used to say... "where's the beef"? I think it's an "emperor's new clothes" beef, myself - the nonexistent kind.

But critiquers need something to do, I understand that. IMO the inclination to edit others' thoughts is indicative of a fascist nature. I consider that worse than this supposed slight of manners (which is debatable at that, as we see).

This "latent racism" phobia today reminds me of McCarthy's "Red Scare" only stupider.

[Baikonour]

293. Amen. nt

[blondeatlast]

219. As the Anglo wife of an Indian who chose to become an American--thank you; I was about

to post about the same thing.

[Beacool]

222. And yet, people are still outraged over the chimp cartoon.

It's something I was surprised to find out during the primaries, the left can be just as sexist and bigoted as the right.

How many here justified the rampant sexist names that Palin was called by the media and the LW blogs because she was a right winger? So, now it's OK to make racist remarks about Jindal because he's a conservative?

Pity that the left can't see that sometimes it's just the reverse side of the same coin as the right. We love to bash the Freepers, but frankly, I have read here some things that were taken verbatim from them and some comments that were even worse than anything I've seen at their site.

Hypocrisy much?

:eyes:

[newtothegame]

223. I'm not surprised. On DU it started with women this summer...

But once Hillary and Palin were out of the picture and could no longer be called bitches, sluts, skanks and trashy hoes, people are moving onto Jindal.

Unfortunately, DU has an obsession with any hint of racial bias against African-Americans, but could care less about and even enjoys a good rousing bout of discrimination against any other class.

DU's priorities:
1. African-Americans

and

way

down

here

2. Every other ethnic minority put together in one group
3. Women
4. Gays

In addition, unfortunately, I agree that the excuse alot of the time is that "The Republicans do it!!!!!" Well yeah, we also spend ALL DAY EVERY DAY ON HERE TALKING ABOUT WHAT JACKASSES AND RACISTS THEY ARE FOR DOING IT!! They're idiots, we say they're idiots, so what's our excuse for doing the same thing?

ed for sp

[Dreamer Tatum]

233. Hang a gold star on your post

We ridiculed and howled over every single instance that "Hussein" was used in the same
area code of Obama during the election, but now that outrage has been shown to be pure politics.

It's OK when our side does it. That's what it boils down to, really.

I think you get to choose between "I do it because they did it," and "I'm better than that."
You can't have it both ways, or you are a moron.

I choose the latter.

[jonestonesusa]

236. I do not agree with this ranking

other than the general point that there is wide sensitivity on the site to the use of the N-word and some racial slurs, in part because the campaign against anti-black racism is so prominent historically. This is not to say that other justice movements are less important; it is to say that the public story of abolition, civil rights, etc. has become embedded in national history in ways that the feminist and gay liberation movement have not been, to this point. Work to do clearly remains on these fronts.

You have to admit, thought, that DU was hardly unanimous on whether certain statements and incidents represented racist bias. If you followed the primary wars, you know that there was plenty of contention on what was and wasn't racist against African Americans. Your post implies that there was some kind of consensus on what was racist - there clearly was not. Some of the people even on this thread are still fighting the primary wars due to their offense at the accusation of making racist statements or defending them.

Also, there were plenty of energetic discussions and on-point critiques about sexism and homophobia on DU, running through Clinton/Palin, Rick Warren, the California marriage issue, and elsewhere. Along with the critiques, plenty of people stood up for their rights to dissent from the most common conclusions among DUers. I think that at times when people stand up for their right to dissent on a discussion involving racism, sexism, homophobia, a strain of self-righteousness runs through those defenses, and that's where things get hot. I'm not surprised by this for two reasons: first, it's patently obvious that sexism, racism, and homophobia are still systematic in our culture; second, it's a common feature to have such isms crop up in anonymous internet discussions, a sad fact about the level of human intelligence that we bring to the table. I do think there's room for one-liners in internet chatter, but it can go too far, and the lovely fact is that we all get to choose how we represent ourselves until Skinner shuts us down.

[newtothegame]

245. I would somewhat agree.

There were heated arguments this summer about lots of issues. Question is what was the value of them? What's happened is that so many DU'ers (and many of us liberals generally) have sometimes used accusations of racism and sexism to shut down other people's legitimate arguments when we don't want to debate, and it somewhat came back to bite people in the ass this summer when they wanted to argue about the real thing. However, I don't really see how this would ever change without everyone coming to universal agreement about what is/isn't prejudice, and I don't think we'll ever get there because we all have different backgrounds/experiences.

ed for sp

[jonestonesusa]

253. I appreciate your response.

I agree that the ideal is to move toward more intelligent positions as a result of discussion, including consensus on what constitutes racism, sexism, homophobia. I also agree that it's frustrating that we do not move to consensus at a faster rate, but to me that challenge resembles what President Obama faces in the current poisonous political environment (not to mention the frustrations that every social justice movement faces when it seeks attitude change). It takes a great deal of time for people to stop being arrogant and just be intellectually honest, to stop holding on to positions just because they happen to be yours, to start acknowledging that we pay a horrendous cost by our collectively ignorant responses to serious social problems (i.e. racism), and to be open to acknowledging when we're out of bounds. The primary debate involved so much legitimate disagreement on Obama/Clinton as well as trashy polarizing flame wars that it left DU with history that it will be hard to shake loose of, for the time being at least. But those of us who believe in informed, fair-minded discussion just have to engage in it, move the discussion along, and keep in mind that we need our most intelligent selves to solve the real social issues at the root of these discussions.

[Number23]

300. Wow.

Do you know that Freepers have referenced a post very similar to yours as a rare "voice of sanity" on DU??

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2193715/posts?page=12#12

[saltpoint]

229. John Smith. Bill Jones. Mary Miller. Piyush Jindal.

What's in a name.

[Jeneral]

238. When did

Obama switch from Barry to Barack?

[Laurab]

240. Welcome to DU - enjoy your visit. n/t

[dbackjon]

239. How is pissy Jindal racist?

I call anyone like that Pissy, regardless of ethnicity.

[Hepburn]

266. Jeeeeeeez, exactly....

...after the performance of last evening, is there any doubt that Jindal is pissy?

But, OMG, I am some racists POS for pointing it out.

:eyes:

[Occam Bandage]

269. "He's named PISSY?" I believe was your original quote.

Mocking a foreign name for being funny-sounding is crass. Using a funny-sounding derivative of his birth name instead of the name he chooses to go by is at minimum racially insensitive.

[dbackjon]

288. You believed wrong

Don't fucking call me a racist, or make assumptions.

[alwysdrunk]

246. You're right. It's exactly like "B. Hussein Obama"

And people should aim to be above that. THat's Ann Coulter and Freeper type shit.

I wish I could say it was DUers mocking the Freepers as hypocritical by throwing the Hussein stuff right back at them, but I'm not sure that it is.

Racism is wrong no matter how bad the person you are directing it at is.

[Kajsa]

247. You are correct, Occam Bandage!

Jindal is a jackass and his speech was a long drawn out version of the same 'ole
" wasteful spending" crap we've been hearing from Boehner and the gang, ad nauseam.

btw,

WHAT IS THIS GLORIOUS PLAN THEY HAD?
You know, the one that would

"create twice the jobs at half the cost, that the Democrats
wouldn't even allow us to discuss"? Jindal brought that up, again.

What is the glorious plan that they pull out in 2009, versus 2007 when we really
needed it?

They got us in this friggin mess so guys, STFU with the "wasteful spending" crap!!

About the racism- I agree 110% if that's possible.

Anger fuels hatred and it comes out in very ugly ways.

Racism has no place here.

We are better than that.

[George II]

248. I agree 100%!! Those epithets are totally uncalled for as is "B. Hussein", etc. from the other side

[AngryOldDem]

250. It's amazing how people can debate the obvious.

And I'm sure what I'm about to say has been said about 1,000 posts upthread, but it deserves restating for those who refuse to get it.

Look at the intent behind which name is used. In the cases of both Jindal and Obama, it is to play on the prevailing negative cultural commotations that each name immediately conjures. Using "Piyush" and "B. Hussein Obama" are obvious, deliberate attempts to 1) slam Indians; and 2) play on the fears of many about ANYTHING that sounds remotely connected to Islam, which is then connected to terrorism, which is then connected to...you get it. Deliberately using given names that they themselves do not prefer is solely to make them stand out in a negative way from the cultural and political mainstream. They become, in some minds, "not one of us." And I am beyond trying to defend "Pissy" or "Gunga Dim." If those were used anywhere here on DU, then we lose any pretense of outrage when the same type of slam is directed toward any one of us or those whom we support politically.

And really, some here remind me of Ann Coulter, who defends her reference of "B. Hussein Obama" in much the same way: "Well, it's his NAME, isn't it?" Occam Bandage is right: We should be above such disingenuousness.

Jindal prefers to be called Bobby just as Ted Kennedy prefers Ted, or Teddy, over Edward. Respect his choice. Sometimes it REALLY is that simple.

[KingFlorez]

255. Turnabout is fair play

I think a lot of people are still ticked off at the things said about Obama, so this is an opportunity to hand that nastiness right back and see how the right-wing likes it.

[Occam Bandage]

258. Instances of Republicans being obnoxious race-baiters do not call for Democrats to do the same.

[Brgotn]

265. then that makes us no different

than the other individuals who behave that way.

Just because Governor Jindal is a Republican doesn't legitimize such behavior. All it does is make us look like a bunch of hypocrites.
And to be honest, it is embarrassing. I thought we were better than that. All of this hate is taking us down a wrong path..

[pattmarty]

256. If his father OR mother came over here on an H1B visa..............

...............I think that should be bought up and IS NOT RACIST. If that is his "real" first name, then according to the fascist conservative playbook (hey, they started all this) then I think it's fair. I am sick and tired of "turning the other cheek" to these FUCKING ASS HOLES. Sure, it would be just great if we could all get along in bipartisanland, but that train left the station a long time ago (under st ronnie's watch).

[Occam Bandage]

262. How isn't it racist to attack someone for being the child of an immigrant?

The defenses here are just mind-boggling.

[pattmarty]

272. Wrong term whizzo. What you meant to call me is xenophobic.

How quickly "some" forget ALL the bullshit Liberals/progressives have taken from the so called conservatives. Name calling (every day, in every paper, and on every cable news outlet), verbal AND physical abuse. So, no, I do not feel the least bit sorry for a black RNC chair or a Indian Louisiana conservative governor. They are on the wrong side and are paying for it just by looking stupid and pushing stupid/failed policies. The real problem with the "Republicans of color" is whenever you see the few of them in a room, the rest of the room is lily white which makes them look all the more ridiculous and greedy.

[Occam Bandage]

278. While it is true that you are xenophobic, I meant to call you racist.

They're not mutually exclusive terms. And I completely fail to see how Republican "name calling" justifies your proud bigotry.

[pattmarty]

284. Why you are entitled to your opinion of me (I did not refer to you..........

.......in any derogatory term). AND, I do not have to defend myself from you (whom I do not know) from being racist. People that know me know who I am and what I stand for. As for his parents possibly being recipients of H1B visas, I am against almost all work visas. In the richest country in the world, we should be capable of filling any and all jobs with OUR 300 million citizens (and I did not say natural born). It is this country's shame that we have to go outside our borders to "fill" jobs that cannot be filled by US citizens. Now, hopefully you know why exactly that is so I don't have to type another 300 or so words and explain why I am a Liberal. So I'll leave it at that with you getting in the last of the name calling, which I guess makes you a/the winner?

[KamaAina]

263. Amazingly, this argument did not begin at DU

Sometimes we tend to think that the sun rises and sets over our servers, but that isn't the case.

During the gubernatorial campaign, the Louisiana Democratic Party issued a press release referring to the repuke candidate by his given name, Piyush Jindal. They were taken to task in a fashion eerily similar to this by a small-town uber-repuke newspaper publisher in north La.

http://www.ouachitacitizen.com/news.php?id=1191

Let's take it a step further.

Issuing a news release pointing out that Jindal's first name is Piyush, which the state Democratic Party did last week, removed the racist label from the Republican Party and placed it clearly on the backs of the Democrats.

All this occurred before anyone (except Michelle and the girls) knew what Barack Obama's middle name even was.

An interesting sidelight: His predecessor, Kathleen Blanco, played the name game as well, often going by "Kathleen Babineaux Blanco" in order to emphasize her Cajun heritage.

This explains why I have referred to Jindal as "Piyush". Before I read that, I always stuck with "Bobby". But I will be double-damned if I will let some hick repuke apologist hang the label "racist" on me! :grr:

That being said, there is much to recommend in the OP.

Referring to him as "Pissy Jindal" is racist. Calling him "Gunga Dim" is very racist. Saying "I think I talked with him on a call for tech support one day" is very racist. Yet DUers have laughed and high-fived over these comments in threads that are up and open today.

"Gunga Dim" isn't even very accurate. He's evil, not stupid. And he doesn't have an Indian accent (or a Southern one, for that matter), so what's with the "tech support" stuff? Oh, and you forgot the numerous "Slumdog" references.

I apologize if I have opened up a can of worms. By the way, he is not a jackass. He is a douchebag. Thus, henceforth, he shall be known as "Gov. Douchebag".

[Occam Bandage]

268. I'm sure that Republicans would happily, and unfairly, attempt

to affix the label of "racist" upon Democrats. They love to "catch" us playing racial politics, as a way of distracting people from their own harmful policies and crypto-racist rhetoric.

Such political ploys are galling, and it's natural to want to push back against them. But that doesn't mean that there isn't a valid point hidden in their snide finger-wagging.

[Cha]

264. My impression of Jindal is that he's

evil..I cannot stand to hear him spout whatever selfish shit he's come with.

[wial]

270. to put this in historical perspective,

consider the junior senator from Massachusetts' grandfather had very good reasons for changing his name from Kohn to Kerry when he came to this country. He probably shouldn't have done it, but then his grandson could not have run for president in the long era in which he came of age -- hopefully now over.

[Pisces]

275. I agree. Plenty to rip him apart on besides the name he chooses to be called.

[cynatnite]

276. K&R! n/t

[KamaAina]

277. Factoid: "Gunga Dim" did not originate with Jindal

This little gem :sarcasm: from two years ago turned up in a search:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=49846&mesg_id=49846

the target was Dinesh D'Souza, who, amazingly, is an even bigger douchebag than Jindal.

Yet it made barely a ripple in the placid woodland pond that is DU. :sarcasm:

[Waiting For Everyman]

281. OMG! That's not FAIR! Whaaaaaaambulance!

You mean... the DU zealots aren't FAIR and EQUAL about their racial outrage? OMG, the world's going to end now.

:rofl:

Good one!

[Occam Bandage]

282. Er...how is that a "good one?"

One jackass used "Gunga Dim" in reference to a conservative of Indian descent two years ago, in a thread with a handful of posts. Nobody noticed.

Another jackass used "Gunga Dim" in reference to a different conservative of Indian descent now. I noticed, and complained that it was flagrantly racist. I still believe it is.

What does that prove?

[Waiting For Everyman]

285. It proves you (and everyone else) missed its "importance" before.

It proves nothing, it's just funny as hell. But without a sense of humor, I wouldn't expect you to get that.

[Occam Bandage]

286. Yes, few people noticed a thread with ten posts from two years ago.

That's, um...funny. Because...nobody...noticed it. Like...most threads? Yeah. It's certainly funny that someone said something racist once in a thread nobody paid attention to, and nobody paid attention to it.

[Waiting For Everyman]

287. And it had 10 posts because nobody was interested. Exactly.

Believe it or not, I don't have to ok it first with anybody here before I laugh. I just went ahead and did that on my own initiative.

Right-e-o. This is getting dumber by the minute.

[drgonzosghost]

280. Completely agree 100%, but he DOES need to make up his mind on what accent he wants to use....

Last night he went from "aw shucks" midwestern to slightly southern, and then to something else entirely. I seriously hope this is the best the GOP can do right now!

[LiberalLovinLug]

290. Repukes would LOVE to make an issue out of it.

To point to a few anonymous posters on a message board and scream "racists!" if only to mask the actual racist history of their party and many who have served for them. So for that reason alone Democrats should not go out of their way to use his name as an insult, or even if they know it could be taken as an insult.

Although I side with those who DO NOT think calling someone by their real name is an insult generally speaking. How could it be if that is what someones mother calls them? It obviously must be looked at in what context it is used.

It is a slur to call someone by a name they do not want to be used for them. You can say that Jindal is ashamed or just being politically more appealing to the Repuke base. Whatever the reason, that is his choice and we should respect it.

In Jindal's case repeating his real name is meant to remind Republican voters that he is an Indian, and so appeal to the large numbers of racists in that party. For Democrats, politically speaking, it helps, although it is morally wrong. But then one could make the argument that that it is their problem if they stay home and do not vote because of racist attitudes, simply from hearing "Bobby" Jindal's real name. What is interesting is that the Hussein tag on Obama was ALSO directed at the Republican racist base, but for the opposite reason, to stain Obama with the Arab terrorist myth and make sure that they did NOT vote for the man, as well as getting out the vote under the fear of the terrorist-loving Dems winning. :eyes:

So its all about the Repuke base. Thus it is somewhat tempting to throw out something that divides the GOP and causes havoc in their dim and hypocritical world. Especially when they were so gleeful about ridiculing Obama. But we should draw the line at this. Just stop it. Using Piyush when you know he regards himself as Bobby is childish and the few Repukes voters that may be turned off by voting for him or taking him seriously because they heard his real name, are outnumbered by the Repukes that will be fired up all the more from Rush et all screaming about how RACIST the Democrats are.

Besides now we can now call him BOOBY :7

[skepticscott]

291. Not sure why it took 290 posts

for someone to finally figure out why people are using "Piyush" instead of Bobby. Yes, it is all about the Republicans, but what's wrong with emphasizing and exposing completely the fact that the Coulter/Limbaugh/Hannity-loving core that's setting the agenda for them is deeply and fundamentally racist? And that Jindal himself is the worst kind of hypocrite for associating himself with the very people who might be disinclined to vote for someone simply because they have a foreign-sounding name or a non-Western European background? Is it the Democrats or anyone here using the name that feels that way? Not that anyone has shown. This really is ALL about the Republicans and their despicable attitudes. Who is hurt by this that shouldn't be? The whole thing would be a non-issue if the Republican party weren't riddled with bigots, so let's point the finger exactly where it belongs.

[uppityperson]

303. kick, too late to rec. Thank you.

[CBGLuthier]

305. DU has always been weirdly racist about India and China

Within moments of the Mumbai bombings some were posting cracks about tech support being down.

Every time there is any posting about India the "they steal our jobs" bullshit starts just the same as any RW website.

I chalk it up to americans being some of the most culturally ignorant people on this planet.