I have come to believe that wealthy people are tone deaf to whats going on in this economy

[La Lioness Priyanka]

Yesterday, i met a casual acquaintance of mine who is a banker. She proceeded to tell me how the average person doesn't understand that if she worked by the hour, on her base salary she doesn't make that much more than a minimum income salary. That her bonus, which she won't get due to political pressure is the bulk of her salary etc. It's performance dependent wages etc.

I tried to tell her that is hard for people to understand why she would get a performance dependent wage when her industry seems to not have performed at all. That a hundred hours a week spend badly doesn't really count as performance.

Then another conversation with a banker about how the poor started this mess by believing that owning a home is a right not a privilege. Ten minutes later she was telling me about how stuck she feels with the fancy apartment she owns, that she can't sell now as she will lose money. If she gets laid off it will be scary.

Another friends father is insistence he will be POOR due to Obama's taxes. He is a lawyer. He wouldn't know poor if it came up to him and spat in his face.

I think the rich are just as tone deaf as the french elite before the french revolution. They just don't understand why we are mad at their cake when we cant get bread. They believe the cake is their right, our bread is our privilege.

[DevonRex]

1. I agree. Warming an office chair isn't performance. They seem to

think they "deserve" to be rich by virtue of breathing.

:hi:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

10. even if she performed well individually (which i am SURE she did)

she must understand that if an institution can't afford variable pay, they cant afford it.

not the tax payers problem

[ejpoeta]

50. tell that to people like my husband. who work long hours and spent last year

keeping numbers up despite having the company simply not have enough workers. they busted their butts and then were told no raise and no bonus. plus our healthcare went up. and they performed. so i'm sorry if i don't feel sympathy for those that would only get a minimal salary. for doing their damned job!!!

and as for 'poor people' wanting a house... it's not like they weren't being told they should have a home, and then had lenders who should have known better telling them they could afford a loan. sometimes people believe what the bankers say because they think the bankers would not give them a loan if they couldn't pay it back. while perhaps homeowners should have known they couldn't afford a certain loan, we tend to believe what smart people tell them.... especially when they may not be that well educated.

[kestrel91316]

2. Pretty much sums thinigs up. The wealthiest people in the US wouldn't

recognize an honest day's WORK if it came up and bit them in the ass.

[patrice]

3. There's a very reliable standard in Social Psychology called Attribution Error. It goes like this:

(And I believe it would also reach across social-economic classes)

My flaws/shortcomings/errors/sins (whatever you want to call them) are caused by temporary situational factors beyond my control.

The flaws/shortcomings/errors/sins of others are caused by intrinsic elements of their fundamental make-up.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

11. fundamental attribution error. it does explain a lot about the world

[patrice]

20. The only known anti-dote is awareness of self and others.

[flying rabbit]

42. Very hard to do

but worth the effort.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

43. well fundamental attribution error is mostly a western thing. in eastern cultures

people don't blame the individual first, they do consider circumstances

[KittyWampus]

53. that would be "empathy" and empathy is a function of the higher brain.

[conscious evolution]

46. Does projection play a part in this?

Seems to me they go hand in hand.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

49. no, not really. FAE, is a way to attribute a fault to eithe the situtation or the person

in collectivist cultures, people tend to think the situation is at fault. in individualistic cultures, people tend to think the individual is at fault.

[ejpoeta]

51. sounds a lot like my family members attitudes. which would explain why

my needing assistance is fine, but anyone else is lazy.

[PM Martin]

4. It was the bankers, mortgage brokers/investors, and realtors

who sold these mortgages and homes to make "fast and easy" "money".
They have no business complaining.
Add to that the "genius's" at Harvard Business School :puke: and Goldman Sachs who came up with the infamous "credit derivative". :wtf:

[ejpoeta]

52. these folks convinced a lot of people they could afford these mortgages.

especially with the teaser rate that reset. yes, we all have to be responsible for our own choices, but people who may not be the best educated, and even educated ones, can defer to someone who would know better then they would.

[LongTomH]

5. "Minimum income" - I think she meant minimum wage

You really should have pulled out a calculator and said: "OK, let's work out what your yearly salary really comes to per hour!" Divide by 52 for number of weeks - divide by average number of hours she works (or claims to work) per week.

[JayMusgrove]

6. Your banker friend is either lying or just too stupid. I have a

banker friend, who is a liberal, he works 6 days a week for one of the biggest US banks whose name we all know. He's not a senior exec, but he does get a nice bonus every year, for doing his job, which is NOT investments, but still important to the bank.

He makes about $60K in salary, and has gotten bonuses for the last 5 years which enabled him to completely pay off his $200K mortgage.

Unfortunately, he also invested in the bank's stock, year after year, about 30% of his portfolio. Now that investment is worth 1/12th of what it once was. He wants to retire in a few yrs, but can't see his way clear to do that, despite the fact that he has no mortgage payments and low city taxes, he's hoping Obama succeeds.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

8. she isnt stupid. exaggeration, i am sure. i didnt think she was being literal

[NC_Nurse]

7. I agree. It makes it a lot harder to feel for them, doesn't it?

What amazes me is that people like that banker can't fathom that someone like me could work 100 hours a week at
a MUCH harder job, with life or death at stake no less, and never even come close to what she makes for sitting on her ass
pissing away other people's money. What a spoiled brat.

[HelenWheels]

27. I sure don't feel sorry for them

It's a lot harder building a house than sitting in an office arranging the mortgage for that house. They don't know what hard work is. They should try for just one day collecting garbage, delivering furniture, working in a hospital or nursing home, guarding inmates, waiting table, etc. Their blind indifference makes me very angry.

[truedelphi]

30. Feeling the same here, HelenWheels n/t

[baldguy]

9. Driving that $80K 7-series Beemer is a privilege, not a right.

If she can't afford it now without the bonus she shouldn't have bought it in the first place.

I don't think it's the real wealthy that's tone deaf. The top 1% are behind it all, of course, but the people that need to ignore the plight of the fellow citizens in order to maintain their self-respect are the petit-bourgeois that the top 1% has raised up over the rest of us. They're a class of overseers to keep the wage-slave masses in line - distracted & ignorant.

I wonder how many times your banker friend approved credit for people who she now thinks are living beyond their means?

[NRaleighLiberal]

12. They are NOT tone deaf. They just don't give a shit.

[madaboutharry]

13. I agree.

They really do not give a shit.

I met some of these people during the campaign when I was working as an Obama team member. We would be able to predict the reception we would get by the size of the houses and the types of cars in the driveways of any given neighborhood. Of course there were exceptions, but they were few and far between. And the things people said were sometimes very predictable.

on edit: Here is an example: "IT IS MY MONEY!"

[NRaleighLiberal]

15. Yep. Even one of my best friends - a devout bible thumping so called Dem

(definitely blue dog, NC native) is struggling with two things - Obama's race and the threat of having to share any of his excess income with those who are needy. Makes me wonder what he really gets out of all that church going.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

26. i think excessive church going is often to compensate for a lack of morality

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

14. The banker must be math challenged

What's Federal minimum wage, $8 an hour now ? If she worked 24/7 at min wage that would be 168 hours @ $8 or about $70,000 a year. THen again, she probably has no clue what min. wage is.

[madaboutharry]

17. As of now, the Federal minimun wage is $6.55.

On July 24, 2009 it will become $7.25.

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

22. Thanks, I must have been thinking of the CT min wage

which was about $8 recently

[La Lioness Priyanka]

24. no, i am sure she was just speaking in hyperbole.

[Still Sensible]

16. Not all well off people are like this, but clearly a lot

of them are. Basically I agree with other posters that say these kind of people don't give a shit. Some are clearly greedy, evil people. Others have rationalized their positions by falling for standard republican memes about lazy, irresponsible poor people and the other class warfare tactics of the right.

[Cleita]

18. Well, maybe they should be reminded of what happened to the

French aristocracy for being insensitive to the suffering of the poor people. I do feel that redistributing the wealth by guillotining their fortunes should be in order. It's economically bad for this country or any country to have only 2% of the people own over 80% of the wealth.

[JTFrog]

19. You can find out how unfair the taxes are against the rich right here at DU these days.

It's an amazing thing.

Some will rub our noses in it while complaining about how INEQUITABLE the tax laws are against those folks making more than $250k.

Rich assholes bitching about their taxes and defending racist cartoonists. DU has a VERY BIG TENT.

[emulatorloo]

21. I doubt your lawyer friend makes more than $250,000 - median annual = $102, 470

Maybe he does but . . .

US Dept of Labor - Bureau of Statistice
http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos053.htm#earnings

====

In May 2006, the median annual earnings of all wage-and-salaried lawyers were $102,470. The middle half of the occupation earned between $69,910 and $145,600. Median annual earnings in the industries employing the largest numbers of lawyers in May 2006 were:

Management of companies and enterprises $128,610
Federal Government 119,240
Legal services 108,100
Local government 78,810
State government 75,840

Salaries of experienced attorneys vary widely according to the type, size, and location of their employer. Lawyers who own their own practices usually earn less than those who are partners in law firms. Lawyers starting their own practice may need to work part time in other occupations to supplement their income until their practice is well established.

=====

[La Lioness Priyanka]

23. he does. he is my friends father and thereby has been practicing for years

[emulatorloo]

47. Well then I am sure the extra 3% tax he will have to pay will financially destroy him, right?

Yes he is definitely out of touch then.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

48. yup. there is clearly only 3% between him and poverty

:rofl:

[Fly by night]

25. They are clueless to the damage they've done and the "worthier than all y'all" attitude they spew.

Eat 'em.

[Hellataz]

28. I've tried to explain this before, people making over $100,000 don't get it...

The majority of americans are living paycheck to paycheck bringing in minimum wage and even in a 2 parent household that only comes to slightly above $30,00 a year. These people are making it work, paying their bills, paying for education for their kids and keeping a roof over their head. But they struggle at it and make due without so much that people making even over $50,000 a year don't seem to get it.

The wealthy or even well off people are just accustom to the way they live and can't imagine life without the ability to buy what they want, or take vacations when they feel. This isn't even about the uber wealthy, it's about small business owners and upper middle class that are making more then enough money to make ends meet and still pay for small luxuries like trips, clothes and toys. They can't identify with the single mom working two jobs and still has to buy generic brand food at the store and has to take the bus because she can't afford car payments. They will never understand the family struggling to send their kid to college on a minimum wage salary and hefty school loans.

They don't get it. And they never will.

That i why it upsets me so much to see anyone bitch about their taxes. I've been in that position, taking home less then a grand a month after over $250 were taken out of my checks for taxes each month. I paid my bills and never once bitched because i knew that my taxes went to helping those who were even less fortunate that I and isn't that the point of being a good american?

It's not some evil socialism plot to take the hard earned millions from the rich and give to the lazy poor, it's about making the greedy wealthy pay their fair share to help struggling poor people just get by with some basic human needs. It's so unfortunate that we live in a country where that isn't seen by all.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

29. well stated. it isnt about the uber wealthy, who knows how they feel, it is about the upper middle

class or the barely wealthy

[truedelphi]

31. And sadly, those who make that 100K a year PLUS are more likely to rely on TV

And radio for analysis of the political realities. All of which is slanted for the benefit of the monied class.

[Hellataz]

41. exactly they think that not being able to go out to eat regularly is a hardship...they have no clue

they can't fathom a real hardship of deciding between your electric/Gas Bill and making sure there's food on the table.

And then we get the assholes GP pundents that make it worse saying these people just aren't working hard enough to live within their means and how dare they ask for government funded programs to help them buy food for their kids! That's the responsibility of the parents and if they can't handle it then tough shit...

[uponit7771]

44. Not all, there are those who make that and have family members who do not and aren't stereo typical

..."lazy" liberals like KKKons want to describe them.

I agree on the notion that some can be disconnected but there are many who are connected in some way (like coming from a pay check to pay check background), lets not paint in such a large brush.

[DemocracyInaction]

32. What they don't get and never have..

..is that all those "little" people they are afraid of (as in fear they will get all their money)is that they, the well off, will be in the bread line with the little people if all the little people cannot get out and shop until they drop as has been going on for years. Our enconomy depends on "full" malls and car lots and realator offices. If fat asses don't do their share NOW, they will share soon in the panic and poverty. Alas, they are too goddamn stupid to ever figure it out!

[BlooInBloo]

33. They aren't tone-deaf. They simply don't care.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

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[La Lioness Priyanka]

35. suppose you perform well individually but your bank sinks.

should you still get a bonus?

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

37. so the bank should borrow from the tax payer to pay off variable pay ?

even though one can argue, how good were these bankers if the institution failed?

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[butterfly77]

39. These people are full of shit...

they will use any excuse because they don't like the president.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

40. i dont think thats the problem. both bankers voted for him. the lawyer didnt

this is a money issue

[Honeycombe8]

45. I work for wealthy people and know a lot of them. So I don't think of them as bad people.

They have sacrificed and work hard to be financially successful, for the most part. No one handed them anything. I respect most of them. (Some of them were privileged and went to ivy league schools because mom and pop could get them in AND pay for it...which gave them a leg up on most people in the country. These are the ones, IMO, who can't relate to peoople who work at Burger King or factories.)

But even though I consider most of the wealthy people I know just like the poor ones, only with money...I agree with your post that many of them aren't experiencing this recession in the same way. The banker lady you talk about...she sounds like one of those privileged wealthy people. They see things differently. They just don't get it. Like the car makers who flew in to the hearings on their billion dollar jets, asking for a handout. They just don't get it.

The lady banker doesn't understand that times have changed, so she can't expect her bonus to stay the same. My dad, a Republican, says that when you give someone money, that gives you a right to ask questions and set terms on that person's finances. If the bankers don't want taxpayers or the govt. setting lowered standards, then they shouldn't take our money.

I get a bonus based on hours worked (some might call it performance, but it's really based on overtime hours worked, to encourage us to work lots of hours....because the firm bills my time, and so makes more money the more hours I work...I get a small percentage of that extra money the firm makes). I do not count on that bonus. Bonuses are not guaranteed income. I live within my means, based on my SALARY. Then the bonus, if I get it, is truly a "bonus," and goes into my savings account or whatever.

The rich get overextended, just like the poor. Both are responsible for living beyong their means.