Huffington Post, Daily Howler, criticize falsehoods in Obama's education speech

[Louis-Emmanuel]

President Obama's claim yesterday that math scores of 8th graders have fallen relative to other nations is "simply innacurate," according to the progressive Daily Howler blog. Obama said:

And yet, despite resources that are unmatched anywhere in the world, we have let our grades slip, our schools crumble, our teacher quality fall short, and other nations outpace us. In eighth grade math, we've fallen to ninth place.

The specific claim that math scores of our 8th graders have "fallen" is contradicted by the rankings, measured in 1995, 1999, 2003, and 2007, which show that the US ranked 23rd, 18th, 15th and 9th, respectively, thus indicating that the grades in questions have improved, not fallen, as claimed by the President.
http://dailyhowler.com/dh031109.shtml

Similarly, Gerald Bracey Fellow at the Education Policy Studies Laboratory at Arizona State University, observed today in the Huffington Post that Obama's claim that dropout rates have tripled over the past 30 years" is inaccurate: "A 10% decline in graduation rate = a 300% increase in dropout rate? Talk about fuzzy math," he said.

Click here for more inaccuracies:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gerald-bracey/on-education-obama-blows_b_173666.html

[NJmaverick]

1. Gerald Bracey is guilty of using fuzzy math

he is deliberately manipulating the numbers. Percentages are based on a base number. In this case Mr. Bracey practiced deception by using the much larger graduating student number, to decrease the drop out rate to 10%. That is truly a rotten act, and makes me question the rest of the article.

[Enrique]

2. not fuzzy math

"A 10% decline in graduation rate = a 300% increase in dropout rate? Talk about fuzzy math."

What if the graduation rate went from 95% to 85%? That's a 10% decline in the graduation rate and the dropout rate increased from 5% to 15%, i.e. tripled, i.e. a "300% increase".

[Louis-Emmanuel]

4. But are the 95% and 85% the actual figures?

If the numbers you picked represent the actual statistics used by Obama and the HuffPo guy, then you are correct. Are those the right numbers though?

In fact, the article by Bracey speaks about the graduation rate going from 77% to 67%. This would mean that the dropout rate went from 23% to 33%.
33% is not even double 23%. It is almost 1.5x higher.

[Enrique]

8. no, but he presents the possibility as ridiculous

the sentence I quoted confuses the issue.

The bottom line is, where does Obama get the "dropout rate tripled" from? I'm sure he backs it up somewhere or else someone will ask him.

[jefferson_dem]

3. Thanks for your concern.

Duly noted. :hi:

[Political Heretic]

6. Why do people always say this?

This is something I don't get.

Why don't we want to take seriously any inconsistencies, inaccuracies or possible contradictions we find in the statements of our President?

The moment anyone posts anything that might require some use of ones brain beyond that required to give simply blind consent, they get the "thank you for your concern line"

I don't get it.

The only reason Obama will be a great president in the end is if WE, the PEOPLE, hold him accountable. Closing your eyes, plugging your ears and shouting, "Thank you for your concern!" isn't going to get that done.

[Louis-Emmanuel]

7. exactly. and the teachers don't deserve to be painted as worse than they actually are

And a critic of merit pay might argue that the inaccuracies are a way to givepush the merit pay agenda based on exaggerations.

[Teaser]

10. Thanks for your concern

.

[Political Heretic]

12. You're welcome. While you're too busy being a dickhead the rest of us will do our jobs

as citizens... which is to hold our government accountable.

[jefferson_dem]

20. People don't always say this.

I know I don't, at least.

I only resort to thanking posters for their "concern" when they deserve to be thanked for their "concern".

Let's hold the President accountable. The OP doesn't work toward that goal, in my view.

But, hey...you go ahead and be "protesty" for the purpose of being "protesty". Good luck with that.

[Political Heretic]

32. I guess I don't know any posters well enough to come from that perspective.

I suppose that's understandable if you recognize some poster that is always doing nothing but going out of their way to be negative... then obviously they might have some other agenda.

But I don't know individual posters well enough to know that kind of stuff. All I know is that while I voted for Obama and personally really like him, that only makes me more enthusiastic about holding his feet to the fire and being critical about his actions as my president.

[jefferson_dem]

33. Point well taken.

Keep fighting the good fight.

[ThomCat]

37. Some people are still too busy cheering

to think seriously. As soon as they see the name Obama all rational brain function stops and the pom poms come out.

[quantass]

5. "Mom, mom look i got an F+ now instead of an F-"

9th Place isn't something to write home about.

[Kdillard]

15. Agreed.

[totodeinhere]

9. Yes, but 9th place among industrialized nations is still unacceptable. n/t

[Uzybone]

11. This is what fools are worried about

Instead of joining Obama to fix the broken system, Somerby is busy nitpicking his speech.

[Political Heretic]

13. Pretty sure we can both join the effort to fix the system and tell the truth at the same time

I don't give a shit about the silly stuff, but I do care when information is misused to make teachers look bad.

[sufrommich]

14. He's going to start getting it from all sides now, which is a

shame.

[Kdillard]

16. Honestly he should be used to it by now.

[ThomCat]

38. It doesn't sound like he's fixing the system.

He hasn't said anything about education that isn't essentially identical to Bush, with the one exception of pushing charter schools as his big project instead of vouchers.

But nothing has shown that charter schools work. Nothing.

It's clear that on this one subject Obama doesn't know what he's talking about, and he's not doing anything new or different to try to fix the problems. He's even embracing No Child Left Behind. He should be scrapping that garbage and working with the teachers instead of against them.

[camera obscura]

17. The Daily Howler has got to be the most obnoxious blog ever. Nothing is good enough for them.

Read the New York Times? You're an idiot.
Watch MSNBC? You're an idiot.
Read liberal blogs? You're an idiot.

etc etc etc.

For example, saying Jindal lied in his Katrina speech makes Josh Marshall, Keith Olbermann, and Rachel Maddow as bad as Republicans, apparently:

http://dailyhowler.com/dh030209.shtml

Atrios is a rube for saying that sunday morning shows tend to feature conservatives:

http://dailyhowler.com/dh021709.shtml

Frank Rich didn't like Al Gore once, so everything he says is "snark" and brain-numbing:

http://dailyhowler.com/dh030309.shtml

I'd find more examples, but I just can't take this site and the "low, mordant chuckling" any longer.

[Louis-Emmanuel]

18. You misrepresented what Somerby said about Atrios

The link to the criticism of Atrios shows that Democratic guests were the majority that weekend, yet Atrios suggested the opposite was true. Somerby is of the opinion that when our progressive analysts sound dumb and provide nonsensical analysis, our side suffers.

Somerby's criticism that day had nothing to do with the proportion of Republican/Democratic guests in general on Sundays. It was only for that Sunday.

and you said Rich "once" didn't like Gore. How do you know he likes him now?

[camera obscura]

21. All he said was "so many Republicans". And using phrases like Ole Massa doesn't help.

Another thing that turns me off about DH is the casual use of racebaiting and gaybaiting terms, used with irony or not.

As for what Rich thinks, so what? Does it seriously matter? Al Gore is one of my personal heroes and has been since I was a kid, and yeah he got slammed in the media. But this:

Our question: Since he conned you so bad about Clinton and Gore, should you really believe him now? By the way: Are you sure he won’t turn against you again, if his herd turns on big-spending Obama?

is patently ridiculous. Somerby can't say anything about Rich's actually column or his thoughts on Jindal, so he resorts to "this pundit doesn't like a certain politician, so maybe they'll stop liking a politician YOU like in the future, so you should disregard anything they ever say just in case".

I absolutely agree that when we act like Republicans, our side suffers. Heck, I spent far too long yesterday arguing about whether Paul Krugman's thoughts on the economy deserve to be heard when they clash with Obama's (I think they do). But Somerby's arguments are weak at best. At his heart, he seems more intent on gossiping and quibbling over the psychologies of various pundits, while accusing them of being quibbling gossips.

[Louis-Emmanuel]

22. But do you deny that his argumentS on 8th grade math rankings and Atrios were strong?

Data and guest lists don't lie.

[camera obscura]

26. If Atrios had been outright saying "there are more Repubs on", he'd be wrong.

As for the math rankings, as far as I can tell he's correct. I don't have a whole lot of desire to look into it, since it has nothing to do with the actually problematic parts of Obama's speech, like the support of merit pay.

[Louis-Emmanuel]

27. Math rankings aren't linked to merit pay, but Atrios is?

I find it puzzling that you say that you won't talk about math grade rankings because you think they're not linked to the problematic parts of Obama's speech such as merit pay, but you are more than willing to speak about Atrios.

Go figure.

[camera obscura]

30. ?? I'm just saying that the rankings are irrelevant to the brunt of Obama's speech.

And the Atrios thing is a whole 'nother topic, and probably irrelevant as well - it's just an example of how Somerby scrambles for any throwaway line to defend his preposterous beliefs. In this case, the belief being "if a liberal blogger says something that could be read as implying something that isn't true, s/he is as bad as Sean Hannity and is dumbing down our culture one post at a time."

[Louis-Emmanuel]

34. but merit pay would look less urgent if our rankings were not falling

I will have to disagree witj Your assertion that the trend of how our 8th graders perform relative to other countries is irrelevant to merit pay.

Obama was selling his proposals based on these facts. In order to sell merit pay, more charters, etc., you would have to show how bad the current system is. And the worse the current system looks in the eyes of the people, the better the case. To say that our math rankings have improved over time would have been an inconvenient truth in this case.

[Vattel]

23. Somerby did say something about Rich's actual column.

As he promised on the day he asks the question you quote, the next day he takes on Rich's column. Somerby is a bit arrogant, but his analysis is consistently spot on.

[camera obscura]

28. So he did.

But then, inside the world of this fat, stupid man, a certain narrative will always obtain: By rule of law, every move by the GOP must reflect racial bad faith. No other possibility will be allowed—and that crabbed interpretation will be jammed into every story.

First of all -- kind of hard to take Somerby seriously when he is as catty about shallow attributes and frivolous traits as Maureen Dowd on a bad day.

He goes on to equate the modern-day Republican party's "bad racial history" with - surprise - Rich's dislike of Gore. Personally, I don't feel a few years' worth of snide columns can compare to decades of racially-based strategies, but that's just me.

But ultimately, it's a strawman. Frank Rich did not write an entire column about Jindal as a racial token. He didn't even write a whole column about Jindal.

Somerby relates Jindal's political career and leaves it at that. His entire attack on Rich is filed away as more proof of the dumbing-down of liberal politics, despite the fact that he's based his screed on a whole three sentences, ignoring the loads of statistics about Louisiana's poverty problem and budget shortfalls, the comparison to Mark Sanford's South Carolina with its similar unemployment rates and grandstanding against the stimulus, the takedown of Santelli & the pseudo-populist revolts, and the poll numbers showing how unpopular these approaches are. That's just in a few paragraphs.

His analysis of those few lines may or may not be spot on -- everyone's got an opinion on Jindal's rise to prominence. But claiming that a few bunk lines in an otherwise statistic-filled and well written column brings Rich down to the level of a Hannity or a Kristol is ludicrous.

[Vattel]

35. I see your point.

Somerby does have a tendency to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

[Better Believe It]

19. So who is writing and fact checking President Obama's speeches?

We had enough of that from Bush.

The errors must be brought to Obama's attention and those responsible should be called on the carpet.

No more errors.

Obama's credibility will be reduced if this becomes a common occurance.

[Berry Cool]

24. Bob Somerby doesn't like anyone but Bob Somerby.

He's got an ego as big as Limbaugh's. He thinks he's the only truth teller in all the media, and that every other progressive and liberal in the media other than him is a stupid whore.

His act wore out with me fast.

[Louis-Emmanuel]

25. Wow. It's ad-hominem attack day

Have you guys noticed that everything said about Somerby today had nothing to do with his research about 8th grade math rankings?

Interesting.

[Better Believe It]

29. Has he written any really powerful and effective speeches?

If what you say is true he ought to be replaced pronto!

[LynnTheDem]

31. U.S. falls in education rank compared to other countries

http://kapio.kcc.hawaii.edu/upload/fullnews.php?id=52

U.S. slipping in education rankings
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/11/19/US_slipping_in_education_rankings/UPI-90221227104776

NEW STUDY FINDS U.S. MATH STUDENTS CONSISTENTLY BEHIND THEIR PEERS

WASHINGTON, D.C. - Despite a widely held belief that U.S. students do well in mathematics in grade school but decline precipitously in high school, a new study comparing the math skills of students in industrialized nations finds that U.S. students in 4th and 8th grade perform consistently below most of their peers around the world and continue that trend into high school.
http://www.air.org/news/documents/Release200511math.htm

Science and Math Scores on Decline: Growing
http://www.prlog.org/10039100-science-and-math-scores-on-decline-growing-toy-store-aims-to-strengthen-our-future-competitive-edge.html

U.S. Teens Trail Peers Around World on Math-Science Test
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/04/AR2007120400730.html

Bottom line; we're not "Number 1" in anything much any more other than number of own citizens in jail.

[waiting for hope]

36. Do you want to know what bothers me?

Not one mention of the failings of NCLB - not one.

Commentary: Throwing billions at schools won't fix them

~Snip~

Seven years after the adoption of the No Child Left Behind law, it is clear we are still leaving many children behind.

Tinkering with existing policy is unlikely to produce different results. The Obama administration needs a bold new strategy for reforming our public education system if it hopes that our schools are going to play a more significant role in moving the nation forward. However, so far, and certainly it is still is early in the term of this administration, no new vision or strategy for reforming the nation's schools has been articulated.

~Snip~

Obama has spoken out about the challenges confronting public education, most notably in his inauguration speech and most recently in his address before Congress. On each occasion, he has lauded the achievements of charter schools and chided public schools for their failures.

The president's use of the bully pulpit will undoubtedly be essential to usher in new reforms, but given that 90 percent of children in the United States attend public schools, it is clear that he or one of his appointees will need to do more than criticize public schools to address the tremendous challenges we face.

~Snip~

I bookmarked this from 2007 - an excellent analogy of NCLB:

NCLB and dentistry

[struggle4progress]

39. High school drop-out rate in major US cities at nearly 50 percent

By Barry Grey
3 April 2008

A report released Tuesday by an educational advocacy group founded by retired general and former Bush administration Secretary of State Colin Powell finds that almost half of all public high school students in the US’ fifty largest cities fail to graduate.

The report states that only 52 percent of public high school students in these cities graduate after four years, while the national average is 70 percent. Some 1.2 million public high school students drop out every year, according to researchers.

The report finds that, overall, 17 of the public school systems in 50 major cities have graduation rates of 50 percent or lower, and the average graduation rate of all 50 systems is 58 percent. The findings are based on federal Department of Education statistics for the 2003-2004 school year ...

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/apr2008/scho-a03.shtml

[struggle4progress]

40. Are children isn't learning

No Child Left at All? Report Shows Stunning U.S. Drop-Out Rate
Posted by Amanda Marcotte, Pandagon at 10:27 AM on April 7, 2008.
Are children isn't learning

If you read the report by the EPE Research Center (PDF), you'll see what I mean ... Baltimore, Cleveland, Detroit, and Indianapolis all have graduation rates under 35 percent. That's not dropout rates -- that’s graduation rates. And there are 17 major U.S. cities that have graduation rates below 50 percent. But even more sobering, and what shows what's really going on here, is the comparison of the graduation rates between cities and suburbs.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com.nyud.net:8090/2137/2396097156_f8347b3c3f.jpg

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/81600/