Ok I would like to have a second choice as far as candiates go

[JohnKleeb]

It was originally Kerry when I drifted with Dean and him like this time last year, then it was Dean after I switched to Kucinich, and up until recently it was Kerry. I am now undecided in my second choice. I would like someone to support someone should my guy withdraw, or I may just wait till we choose our nominee, :shrug:
Convince me
I already have a first choice, nothin will change that but my second choice. I'll try to make a decision, and if I dont, that means after if he does withdraw, I will have no candiate, thanks guys in advance.

[Jack_Dawson]

1. Clark if you want a true liberal

[anti-bush]

43. A true liberal

who voted for Nixon and Reagan twice. He is definitely a true liberal.

[genius]

48. He's better than Dean in all areas

But tell me how he's a liberal. By the way, I'd be fine with his getting the nomination. The only thing bad I know about him is his position on DU (where a change of postion could guarantee him votes in the general). THe one thing I like about him is that he could could credibly argue against Bush's military background.

[dd123]

52. How can you call Clark a liberal?

The guy supports bombing Vieques, supports a constitutional amendment banning flag-burning, supports using depleted uranium, supports mini-nukes, aaggh.

[Mattforclark]

54. It is very easy

http://matthew.forclark.com/story/2003/11/15/15491/218

Kucinich also supports flag burning, which surprises me, as does Dean. I don't think that excuses it on any of their parts, though. But in any case, the President plays absolutely no part in the passage of constitutional amendments, so that issue seems to be kind of irrelevant to me.

Clark does not support mini-nukes. Where are you getting that from?

On DU, he merely says that there is no scientific evidence of the harm it may cause. I haven't seen any myself.

I don't know enough about Vieques to make an educated comment.

[sandnsea]

2. Well you know where I'm at!

Who do you trust to take the country where you want it to go.

There's no doubt in my mind that the only choice we can count on is John Kerry.

[JI7]

5. i'm with you

john kerry.

[JVS]

3. I comparisons between Clark and Dean remember...

Dean's record is real. He has actually done the things that appear in his political record. They may not be the most pleasing, but they have actually been accomplished.

Clark on the other hand has not had to enact any political views because it hasn't been his job. This leaves him free to talk about great liberal values, but he hasn't ever had to deliver.

[Darranar]

4. Sharpton...

he is also calling for an end to the occupation of Iraq.

He is my second choice.

[Mairead]

6. Mine too.

Al's definitely my second choice.

[lcordero]

15. Same here

[JohnKleeb]

23. I like Sharpton

Seen him speak a couple of times.

[Wickerman]

7. Wait to make your decision after the primaires

or, a few rounds in. If you want to vote Dennis in yours, go ahead and don't sweat it. 2nd place doesn't matter until Dennis is (possibly) eliminated. What really matters is ABB. I realize (at least I think, forgive me if I am wrong) that you can't actually vote, but the sentiment is there. :thumbsup:

[JohnKleeb]

8. Yes youre right I cant vote

[JI7]

12. you can still campaign, and get others to vote.

you can get your family and if you have older friends to vote. and you can still help campaign for candidates.

[JI7]

9. hey john

what state are you in ? what date is your primary ? maybe you can decide after the first few primaries to see who is still in. and i heard kucinich is staying in until the end so it might not even be an issue.

[JohnKleeb]

13. Virginia

[goobergunch]

16. February 10 - Virginia Primary (n/t)

[JohnKleeb]

18. Thanks

[wryter2000]

10. Second choice

I'm not really sweating a second choice. Right now, I'm working for my first choice. When we have a nominee, he or she will be my first choice.

Are you so rich you want to send two candidates money? :)

[JohnKleeb]

14. Just preparing for the worst

I got me a bad case of the primaries blues today.

[blm]

11. For progressives and workers?

Kerry. He and Kucinich are the most progressive candidates.

[cryofan]

37. Yeah, but Kerry is a blue blood skull and bones yale man

How can we trust these people to go against the status quo?

[Clark4VotingRights]

17. Forgive me for cutting and pasting what I wrote in the Skinner thread

JohnKleeb. But I wanted to share why I think Clark can/will win.
BTW, I love Kucinich too; I know he's irreplacable.
But I would love for Clark to be your second choice.

1-Money is one of Clark's many strengths.

First he's shown he can raise it. Lots and fast.
I think he’s demonstrated it to a pretty dazzling degree in fact.
Of course he doesn't have as much accumulated as Dean...yet. He's been in the
race just over 3 months! But when people see him and hear him, the money flows.
He’s that impressive.

I feel certain that there are tons of rich Dem celebrities that will gladly donate to Clark.
He’s been meeting with them all along. Great people like Steven Spielberg.

And he probably has the option of declining federal matching funds for the GE, just like Dean and Bush did. He’s not a fool. If the playing field is completely off balance because of Bush’s bucks, he’ll level it. He knows he’s in the battle of his life; he won’t go in unarmed. He is most definitely not a fool.

2-We can't win without the south. Clark has the best southern strategy.

It's part of the reason he spent time there instead of Iowa.
He appeals to some crucial demographics: African Americans and white men.

He's the *only* major white guy Dem to consistently speak out about the strategic
disenfranchisement of our black citizens to steal elections. He's the only major white guy Dem to blast the racist criminal justice system, that targets young poor black men to disproportionate degree, labels them as "felons," and robs them of their right to vote (traditionally Democratic, hmmmm). He’s fighting for that right, and not taking that demographic for granted. And he has greats like Charlie Rangel and Andrew Young on board as campaign co-chairs.

And this is where is military background will help immensely.
The military is one of the most integrated institutions in the US.
A lot of the black voters here on DU, and that I talk to (doing voter registration) cite this as a huge plus.

And, southern good ol’ boy white guys? I think they’ll prefer a four star general to any of the Yankees. Dean would have to find a strong southerner to run with. Clark is a strong southerner. That's a huge advantage.

3-He’ll get the traditionally Republican military vote.

Um, just might help there to have a four star general who is speaking out on their behalf, who is appalled at Bush’s misuse and abuse of them. Sending them to be killed for no reason. Not arming them properly. Not giving them adequate pay. Slashing veteran’s benefits.

Who could address those issues better than General Clark? He truly deeply cares about our soldiers. It shows.

4-He has experience caring for the needs of every military family under his command, and his progressive domestic platform.

I won't repeat his entire presidential platform. You can read his policies here:
http://clark04.com/issues/

But he’s proposed the most *progressive* tax plan of any candidate.
He's intensely focused on jobs, education, and training.

5-He has the military/soldier credentials, and the diplomatic credentials.

Clark is a diplomat first and foremost.
He respects our soldiers…his soldiers (unlike Bush), and will put them in harms way, only as a last resort.

He negotiated the Dayton Peace Accords.
I’m thinking that after four years of Bush flipping the bird to the world, it would be good to have an experienced diplomat reaching out to other nations. Clark can do that better than anyone.

6-He has the military/soldier credentials, and the humanitarian credentials.

He fought possibly the only war US history that was waged for humanitarian reasons.
Clark shamed Clinton into stopping "ethnic cleansing" in Kosovo.

Samantha Power, the founding executive director of the Carr Center for Human Rights Policy (1998-2002), and the Pulitzer prize-winning author of A Problem from Hell: America and the Age of Genocide (Basic Books, 2002).

General Clark is one of the heroes of Samantha Power's book.

According to Power, General Clark was already passionate about humanitarian concerns, especially genocide, before his appointment as Supreme Allied Commander of NATO forces in Europe. When genocide began to occur in the Balkans, he was determined to stop it.

She describes his efforts in behalf of the Dayton Peace Accords and his brilliant command of NATO forces in Kosovo. Her chapter on Kosovo ends, "The man who probably contributed more than any other individual to Milosvevic's battlefield defeat was General Wesley Clark. The NATO bombing campaign succeeded in removing brutal Serb police units from Kosovo, in ensuring the return on 1.3 million Kosovo Albanians, and in securing for Albanians the right of self-governance.”

So in an era where the US has no moral authority thanks to the BFEE, here is a man with immense moral authority.

7-General Clark has immense moral authority and significant foreign policy experience.

Supreme Allied Commander of NATO forces in Europe…’Nuff said.

8-He has presidential demeanor and looks. It matters.

He’s friggen impressive. He’s brilliant yet personable, tough and compassionate. Handsome as hell, physically fit as hell. Hey, it matters. His appearance gets people’s attention, and his eloquence and brilliance seals the deal.

9-BushCo has manipulated us into needing a “wartime” president.

Whether we like it or not, we’re stuck. BushCo created the need for "wartime" leadership, which he can't provide. He's given us: War in Afghanistan (for the Caspian pipeline, but still war), war in Iraq (for oil, but still war), war on "terra,"...war war war.
And the Pugs will claim the Dems are weak on national defense.
You know, wimps.

How will they make that claim stick if the Supreme Allied Commander of NATO, a four star General is our nominee?

Picture a debate between Bush (the rich boy who got out of Vietnam by having his daddy get him a slot in the national guard, then went AWOL...from the friggen national guard!) and Clark. Clark will serve him his ass on a platter.

Did you see Clark's interviews with the standard media whores a few
weeks back: Russert, Mathews,...everyone on Faux News?
He ate them for lunch. They never knew what him 'em.
But he did it with poise and dignity, with a professional presidential demeanor.

Now when they interview him they're downright differential.
They practically roll over to get their bellies rubbed.
They've learned that he will fight back. Unlike the traditional spineless Dem.

Picture a debate between Bush and General Clark…

I rest my case.

[JVS]

19. Dean is better on money

[Clark4VotingRights]

29. Er, would you care to expand on that point?

Maybe support it with some facts?

[JVS]

30. Clark is taking matching funds. This regulates when+ how much he spends

Dean isn't taking matching funds. This means that he can spend as much as as he gets whenever he wants.

[Clark4VotingRights]

33. Oh, I see. Thanks for the follow up. Tho' I addressed that in my post...

And I don't believe that Clark is locked into matching funds
for the GE, just the primaries.

Either way, I honestly believe his fund raising ability is competitive
with Bush's. For the reasons already given.

[redqueen]

20. Are you watching Kucinich?

I'm so mad I'm still stuck at work!!!!

Anyway I vacillate between Kerry & Clark as my second choice. I would like to support Al, but with no experience and no formal policies fleshed out yet...

[JohnKleeb]

21. no I am not because no TV in here and am busy

[in_cog_ni_to]

22. Clark, John.

He's going to be an extraordinary president. He will beat Bush and we will probably pick up seats in congress too. He's the best choice. :7

[jfiling]

24. A case for John Edwards

Michelle Cottle of The New Republic has made a great argument for Edwards here.

Considering that the Democrat I've most liked over the past 23 years is Bill Clinton, and the fact that Edwards reminds me more of Clinton than any other Dem candidate, and it seems plain to me that if he had even half the support that the rabid Dean fans ( who don't give one whit about the fact that on just about every issue he's taken both sides ) Edwards would be a monster sleeper candidate.

As it stands, all he can do is keep getting his message out and hope that he crushes the field in SC, leading him to more victories as the primary season rolls along.

[AP]

40. Rank the candidates according to any measure that matters and

you're probably going to have Kucinich at the top of that list and Edwards in slot two.

The issues that matter right now: the shift in cultural, economic, and political power up the income ladder. Because Edwards is defining himsef according to this issue, you can rest assured that President Edwards is going to do something to reverse this 30 year trend.

[anti-bush]

44. Edwards has

been running a campaign about issues and helping America. He has the best plan for helping the working and middle classes. The other campaigns have ben to focused on what others have said in the past, and don't have a positive vision for the future of America.

[JohnKleeb]

45. I must admit I am very impressed with him, that is Edwards

In fact when I had Kerry at number 2, he was like at 3 and for quite some time there was a tie. I still havent decided yet honest.

[JohnKleeb]

25. kick

[curse10]

26. You know how I feel John

Stick with Kerry.

Next to the DK he is the most liberal. I'm stealing from Will Pitt, but check out his record:

John Kerry on Abortion

No criminalization of a woman's right to choose. (Jun 7)
Voted NO on maintaining ban on Military Base Abortions. (Jun 2000)
Voted NO on banning partial birth abortions. (Oct 1999)
Voted NO on disallowing overseas military abortions. (May 1999)

John Kerry on Budget & Economy

Bush policy kept economy afloat in recession-keep some of it. (Sep 25)
No excuse for special tax cuts for the rich. (Jun 17)
Voted NO on prioritizing national debt reduction below tax cuts. (Apr 2000)
Voted NO on 1998 GOP budget. (May 1997)
Voted NO on Balanced-budget constitutional amendment. (Mar 1997)

John Kerry on Civil Rights

Include a sunset provision in the Patriot Act. (Jun 17)
Voted YES on adding sexual orientation to definition of hate crimes. (Jun 2002)
Voted YES on loosening restrictions on cell phone wiretapping. (Oct 2001)
Voted YES on expanding hate crimes to include sexual orientation. (Jun 2000)
Voted YES on setting aside 10% of highway funds for minorities & women. (Mar 1998)
Voted NO on ending special funding for minority & women-owned business. (Oct 1997)
Voted NO on prohibiting same-sex marriage. (Sep 1996)
Voted YES on prohibiting job discrimination by sexual orientation. (Sep 1996)
Voted NO on Amendment to prohibit flag burning. (Dec 1995)
Voted NO on banning affirmative action hiring with federal funds. (Jul 1995)
Shift from group preferences to economic empowerment of all. (Aug 2000)

John Kerry on Corporations

Democratize the process of corporate boards. (Sep 25)
Voted NO on restricting rules on personal bankruptcy. (Jul 2001)

John Kerry on Crime

Voted YES on $1.15 billion per year to continue the COPS program. (May 1999)
Voted NO on limiting death penalty appeals. (Apr 1996)
Voted NO on limiting product liability punitive damage awards. (Mar 1996)
Voted YES on restricting class-action lawsuits. (Dec 1995)
Voted YES on repealing federal speed limits. (Jun 1995)
Voted NO on mandatory prison terms for crimes involving firearms. (May 1994)
Voted NO on rejecting racial statistics in death penalty appeals. (May 1994)
More funding and stricter sentencing for hate crimes. (Apr 2001)
Require DNA testing for all federal executions. (Mar 2001)

John Kerry on Drugs (snicker)

Voted NO on increasing penalties for drug offenses. (Nov 1999)
Voted NO on spending international development funds on drug control. (Jul 1996)

John Kerry on Education

Voted YES on funding smaller classes instead of private tutors. (May 2001)
Voted YES on funding student testing instead of private tutors. (May 2001)
Voted YES on spending $448B of tax cut on education & debt reduction. (Apr 2001)
Voted NO on Educational Savings Accounts. (Mar 2000)
Voted NO on allowing more flexibility in federal school rules. (Mar 1999)
Voted NO on education savings accounts. (Jun 1998)
Voted NO on school vouchers in DC. (Sep 1997)
Voted NO on $75M for abstinence education. (Jul 1996)
Voted NO on requiring schools to allow voluntary prayer. (Jul 1994)
Voted YES on national education standards. (Feb 1994)
Offer every parent Charter Schools and public school choice. (Aug 2000)
Three R’s: $35B for Reinvestment,Reinvention,Responsibility. (Jan 2001)

John Kerry on Energy & Oil

ANWR won't provide any oil for 20 years. (Sep 25)
Invent our way out of oil dependency-don't drill our way out. (Sep 25)
Invest in advancing secure forms of energy instead of oil. (Jun 17)
Led effort to try to raise fuel efficiency standards. (May 3)
Create new energy sources to end Mideast dependency. (May 2002)
Voted YES on targeting 100,000 hydrogen-powered vehicles by 2010. (Jun 10)
Voted YES on removing consideration of drilling ANWR from budget bill. (Mar 19)
Voted NO on drilling ANWR on national security grounds. (Apr 2002)
Voted NO on replacing CAFE standards within 15 months. (Mar 2002)
Voted NO on preserving budget for ANWR oil drilling. (Apr 2000)
Voted YES on keeping CAFE fuel efficiency standards. (Sep 1999)
Voted NO on defunding renewable and solar energy. (Jun 1999)
Voted NO on approving a nuclear waste repository. (Apr 1997)
Voted NO on do not require ethanol in gasoline. (Aug 1994)
Supports tradable emissions permits for greenhouse gases. (Aug 2000)

John Kerry on Environment

Safeguard the environment and grow the economy. (Jun 17)
Voted NO on confirming Gale Norton as Secretary of Interior. (Jan 2001)
Voted NO on more funding for forest roads and fish habitat. (Sep 1999)
Voted NO on transportation demo projects. (Mar 1998)
Voted YES on reducing funds for road-building in National Forests. (Sep 1997)
Voted YES on terminating desert protection in California. (Oct 1994)
Voted YES on requiring EPA risk assessments. (May 1994)
Reduce liability for hazardous waste cleanup. (May 2001)

John Kerry on Families & Children

Fund Head Start to leave no child behind. (Sep 4)
Voted YES on restricting violent videos to minors. (May 1999)
Give parents tools to balance work and family. (Aug 2000)

John Kerry on Foreign Policy

Voted YES on enlarging NATO to include Eastern Europe. (May 2002)
Voted YES on killing a bill for trade sanctions if China sells weapons. (Sep 2000)
Voted NO on cap foreign aid at only $12.7 billion. (Oct 1999)
Voted YES on limiting the President's power to impose economic sanctions. (Jul 1998)
Voted NO on limiting NATO expansion to only Poland, Hungary & Czech. (Apr 1998)
Voted YES on $17.9 billion to IMF. (Mar 1998)
Voted NO on Strengthening of the trade embargo against Cuba. (Mar 1996)
Voted YES on ending Vietnam embargo. (Jan 1994)
Progressive Internationalism: globalize with US pre-eminence. (Aug 2000)
Multi-year commitment to Africa for food & medicine. (Apr 2001)

John Kerry on Free Trade

Dean's trade policy is protectionist. (Sep 25)
FTAA needs more labor and environmental standards. (Sep 4)
Fix NAFTA-canceling it would be disastrous. (Sep 4)
Capitalism and democracy go hand in hand. (May 3)
Voted YES on extending free trade to Andean nations. (May 2002)
Voted YES on granting normal trade relations status to Vietnam. (Oct 2001)
Voted YES on removing common goods from national security export rules. (Sep 2001)
Voted YES on permanent normal trade relations with China. (Sep 2000)
Voted YES on expanding trade to the third world. (May 2000)
Voted YES on renewing 'fast track' presidential trade authority. (Nov 1997)
Voted YES on fast track trading authority. (Nov 1997)
Voted YES on imposing trade sanctions on Japan for closed market. (May 1995)
Build a rule-based global trading system. (Aug 2000)

John Kerry on Government Reform

Flag and patriotism belong to all Americans. (Jun 17)
Voted YES on banning "soft money" contributions and restricting issue ads. (Mar 2002)
Voted NO on allow signatures for voter registration instead of photo IDs. (Feb 2002)
Voted YES on McCain-Feingold campaign finance reform. (Apr 2001)
Voted YES on limiting funding for the National Endowment for the Arts. (Aug 1999)
Voted YES on cloture of 1998 McCain-Feingold overhaul of campaign finance. (Feb 1998)
Voted YES on favoring 1997 McCain-Feingold overhaul of campaign finance. (Oct 1997)
Voted YES on Approving the presidential line-item veto. (Mar 1996)
Voted NO on banning more types of Congressional gifts. (Jul 1995)
Voluntary public financing for all general elections. (Aug 2000)

John Kerry on Gun Control

Voted YES on background checks at gun shows. (May 1999)
Voted NO on more penalties for gun & drug violations. (May 1999)
Voted NO on loosening license & background checks at gun shows. (May 1999)
Voted NO on maintaining current law: guns sold without trigger locks. (Jul 1998)
Prevent unauthorized firearm use with "smart gun" technology. (Aug 2000)

John Kerry on Health Care

Cover more citizens with health plan like Congress gets. (May 3)
Lack of accessible health care is a disgrace. (May 2002)
Voted YES on allowing importation of Rx drugs from Canada. (Jul 2002)
Voted YES on allowing patients to sue HMOs & collect punitive damages. (Jun 2001)
Voted NO on funding GOP version of Medicare prescription drug benefit. (Apr 2001)
Voted YES on including prescription drugs under Medicare. (Jun 2000)
Voted NO on limiting self-employment health deduction. (Jul 1999)
Voted YES on increasing funds for Medicare prescriptions. (Mar 1999)
Voted YES on increasing tobacco restrictions. (Jun 1998)
Voted NO on banning human cloning. (Feb 1998)
Voted YES on Medicare means-testing. (Jun 1997)
Voted YES on medical savings acounts. (Apr 1996)
Establish "report cards" on HMO quality of care. (Aug 2000)

John Kerry on Homeland Security

No new generation of nuclear weapons. (Sep 4)
Automatic citizenship to immigrants who serves in army. (Sep 4)
Voted YES on adopting the Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty. (Oct 1999)
Voted YES on allowing another round of military base closures. (May 1999)
Voted NO on cutting nuclear weapons below START levels. (May 1999)
Voted YES on deploying National Missile Defense ASAP. (Mar 1999)
Voted YES on military pay raise of 4.8%. (Feb 1999)
Voted NO on deploying missile defense as soon as possible. (Sep 1998)
Voted NO on prohibiting same-sex basic training. (Jun 1998)
Voted NO on favoring 36 vetoed military projects. (Oct 1997)
Voted YES on banning chemical weapons. (Apr 1997)
Voted NO on considering deploying NMD, and amending ABM Treaty. (Jun 1996)
Voted NO on 1996 Defense Appropriations. (Sep 1995)

John Kerry on Immigration

Amnesty to anyone here over 5 or 6 years. (Sep 4)
Voted NO on allowing more foreign workers into the U.S. for farm work. (Jul 1998)
Voted NO on visas for skilled workers. (May 1998)
Voted NO on limit welfare for immigrants. (Jun 1997)

John Kerry on Infrastructure

Voted YES on Internet sales tax moratorium. (Oct 1998)
Voted YES on telecomm deregulation. (Feb 1996)
Chief information officer to digitize federal government. (Aug 2000)
Promote internet via Congressional Internet Caucus. (Jan 2001)

John Kerry on Jobs

Trade grows jobs. (Sep 25)
Jump start jobs at home via energy independence. (Sep 4)
Voted NO on repealing Clinton's ergonomic rules on repetitive stress. (Mar 2001)
Voted NO on killing an increase in the minimum wage. (Nov 1999)
Voted NO on allowing workers to choose between overtime & comp-time. (May 1997)
Voted NO on replacing farm price supports. (Feb 1996)

John Kerry on Principles & Values

Favorite song: Bruce Springsteen, "No Surrender.". (Sep 9)
Need a president who won't write laws only for contributors. (Sep 9)
Contest between common sense values and extreme ideologues. (Jun 7)
I'm talking about things that matter to people. (May 3)
It is time for this country to ask again, why not? (May 3)
Religious affiliation: Catholic. (Nov 2000)
Supports Hyde Park Declaration of "Third Way" centrism. (Aug 2000)
Member of Democratic Leadership Council. (Nov 2000)
New Democrat: "Third Way" instead of left-right debate. (Nov 2000)
Member of the Senate New Democrat Coalition. (Jan 2001)

John Kerry on Social Security

Guarantee Social Security soundness, even if unpopular. (Sep 25)
Don't threaten Social Security on Wall Street trading block. (May 2002)
Voted NO on Social Security Lockbox & limiting national debt. (Apr 1999)
Voted NO on allowing Roth IRAs for retirees. (May 1998)
Voted NO on allowing personal retirement accounts. (Apr 1998)
Voted NO on deducting Social Security payments on income taxes. (May 1996)
Create Retirement Savings Accounts. (Aug 2000)

John Kerry on Tax Reform

10% bracket in Bush tax cuts was Democrats' idea. (Sep 25)
Bush tax cuts reach 32 million in middle class. (Sep 25)
We're tired of being trickled on--Middle class tax cuts now. (Jun 7)
Voted NO on $350 billion in tax breaks over 11 years. (May 23)
Voted NO on cutting taxes by $1.35 trillion over 11 years. (May 2001)
Voted YES on reducing marriage penalty instead of cutting top tax rates. (May 2001)
Voted YES on increasing tax deductions for college tuition. (May 2001)
Voted NO on eliminating the 'marriage penalty'. (Jul 2000)
Voted NO on across-the-board spending cut. (Oct 1999)
Voted NO on $792B tax cuts. (Jul 1999)
Voted NO on requiring super-majority for raising taxes. (Apr 1998)
Voted NO on FY99 tax cuts. (Apr 1998)

John Kerry on War & Peace

Maybe on $87B for Iraq-repeal Bush tax cut to pay it, if yes. (Sep 25)
De-Americanize Iraq: the exit strategy is victory. (Sep 9)
Vote for war was needed to push Saddam on inspectors. (Sep 9)
$87B for Iraq only when internationalization is addressed. (Sep 9)
Don't miss 3rd opportunity in Iraq to bring in UN. (Sep 4)
Don't send more US troops to Iraq-share power & share burden. (Sep 4)
Against a misapplied blanket pre-emptive doctrine. (Jun 17)
Intelligence information should not be manipulated. (Jun 17)
Disarm Saddam, but war should be a last resort. (May 3)
Preferred diplomacy, but supported invading Iraq. (May 3)
Vietnam didn't threaten US; US war crimes did. (Apr 1971)
Vietnam war was criminal hypocrisy and tore apart US. (Apr 1971)
Voted YES on authorizing use of military force against Iraq. (Oct 2002)
Voted NO on allowing all necessary forces and other means in Kosovo. (May 1999)
Voted YES on authorizing air strikes in Kosovo. (Mar 1999)
Voted NO on ending the Bosnian arms embargo. (Jul 1995)
Condemns anti-Muslim bigotry in name of anti-terrorism. (Oct 2001)

John Kerry on Welfare & Poverty

Voted YES on welfare block grants. (Aug 1996)
Voted YES on eliminating block grants for food stamps. (Jul 1996)
Voted NO on allowing state welfare waivers. (Jul 1996)
Voted YES on welfare overhaul. (Sep 1995)
Finish welfare reform by moving able recipients into jobs. (Aug 2000)

He's catching fire and really finessing his game plan- watch for some great things from the Kerry campaign in the next month :-)

[jfiling]

31. Um, I see Dean-esque contradictions here...

Voted YES on setting aside 10% of highway funds for minorities & women. (Mar 1998)
Shift from group preferences to economic empowerment of all. (Aug 2000)

Well, which is it? Either we make preferences for minorities and women, or we make no preferences at all

Voted NO on mandatory prison terms for crimes involving firearms. (May 1994)
More funding and stricter sentencing for hate crimes. (Apr 2001)

No consistency at all on mandatory sentencing.

Capitalism and democracy go hand in hand. (May 3)
Voted YES on granting normal trade relations status to Vietnam. (Oct 2001)
Voted YES on permanent normal trade relations with China. (Sep 2000)

These are not democratic countries with which Kerry wants to engage in capitalistic trade agreements

Voted YES on deploying National Missile Defense ASAP. (Mar 1999)
Voted NO on deploying missile defense as soon as possible. (Sep 1998)

This one is just too easy...

[diamondsoul]

27. My endorsement for a second?

Kerry, then Clark. Sharpton and Braun should be my scond and third on stated positions, howver I think both are too focused on their specific pet issues.(MY opinion alone, and I own that so come get me if you must.)

Kerry, he's been a liberal/progressive voice in the Senate for what feels like forever. To me with that much time in the Senate it was sure he'd eventually NOT vote with us. He's still a good man and I love him dearly.

Ok, I ummm....just scared the bujeebers out of my kid...

Kucinich Kerry, Kerry Kucinich.....OMG, that's positively orgasmic! LOL

[JohnKleeb]

28. I had Kerry there for the longest time

I still have yet to decide but Kerry seems likely to be the one. I like Kerry a lot in particular because of his strong stance on the environment and other solid liberal overall views. To be honest, he kinda a little bit remains me of Kennedy, of course older but hes a godo guy in my book.

[blm]

32. Then I suggest you go study all of them with your eye for progressiveness

and character and values. There are some good guys in this group. You may just return to your original two choices.

[JohnKleeb]

34. You're right

[cryofan]

35. I am in the same boat that you are, John,

My first choice is also Kucinich, but given the apparent amateur status of the top level management of his campaign, we are realistically going to have to get a second choice.

Dean is out for me, despite his exceptional talents as a speaker and debater (see my sig for why). Edwards is also a truly talented speaker-debater and very personable, but he is apparently a conservative, almost as conservative as Dean AFAIK.

So, it really comes down to Clark, Gephardt and Kerry. All three are inferior to Dean in talent, but I think they can beat Bush, any one of them, if the full weight of the Democrats are behind any one of them, and with halfway decent luck.

Clark can beat Bush the easiest, even though he lacks somewhat in speaking vim and vigor. He is well educated and as smart as Clinton. Good prole background. I am wary of his chummy relationship with the corporate world, however. He claims he will take a path away from the neocon neolib corporatist path trod by both Clinton and Bush, but can we trust him. He had an interview on 60 minutes a couple of days ago...hmmm....I am not so sure I liked what I saw in his eyes when he spoke of his decision to run. But he often comes across as very presidential and he has the background and appearance to beat Bush easily with good backing and good circumstances. Also remember that the Army, in which he was a top man, is organized in a far more equitable and reasonable and humane way than is the USA itself, when you consider social issues/social safety net.

Gephardt has solid labor connections. I like that a lot, as I do his prole upbringing and public school background. I was impressed when I recently saw him at a stump speech in Iowa, but his debate performances have been not that great. And his longtime insider status makes me doubt his willingness to step away from the neolib neocon path, and he did give the OK for the war.

Kerry: supposedly has a longtime record of social liberalness. And his supporters here claim he will go for more progressive taxation....He very recently came out with some kind of Contract With America style plan. I really liked the progressive sound of it. His debating/speaking? Good enough to take Bush, but of course, that's a low bar. Another big downside to Kerry is that he is rich and comes from Blue Blood background, and even went to Yale and was even a member of the detestable rich boy frat "Skull and Bones" (just like Bush). Don't know if I can go there!

All three are better candidates than Gore. We could do worse with all three. Right now I am leaning Gephardt, and Clark as my backup second man.....gotta like that common man background. Can't trust the rich man to break up the status quo!

[isbister]

58. Re: same boat

His debating/speaking? Good enough to take Bush, but of course, that's a low bar.

Sometimes when a candidate is on stage with eight other people trying to get their message out in a very short amount of time it may appears as if they are not getting the job done as well as you'd like or think they should...maybe they aren't.

When two candidates run for President (or Senate or whatever), that's all that is up there. There is a lot more time for the candidates and there is a lot more focus on what they're saying.

Kerry once faced a sitting Governor who was very popular (72-something approval rating) for the Seante seat he now owns. All of the pundits said that the other fellow, Bill Weld would wipe the floor with Kerry and... wait until the debate, Kerry was a goner. Kerry's a Senator and the Weld fellow is.. somewhere, moved to out of the state to New York. (Just think if Kerry debated bush, maybe bush would move out of the country!)

Another big downside to Kerry is that he is rich and comes from Blue Blood background, and even went to Yale and was even a member of the detestable rich boy frat "Skull and Bones" (just like Bush). Don't know if I can go there!

Bush is wealthy. He is very cruel to those less fortunate and seemingly enjoys it.

Kerry and his wife are wealthy... have more money than bush. But they are different. They take the time to help those less fortunate, they fight for issues to help others, they are concerned about the planet and the human beings that live on it.

So, no John Kerry is by no means just like bush.

[cryofan]

67. I would never say that Kerry is "just like Bush"

despite the fact that they are both rich "Bones men". There is a smug self-righteousness in Bush that turns my stomach--literally!

I agree that Kerry is a truly sympathetic and feeling person. I totally get that vibe from him. I could vote for Kerry, and if Bush comes to shove, I could even do a little work for him in the primary. But the Brahmin background and the bones thing means he would not be my immediate second choice.

[seventhson]

36. John, you KNOW my feelings about Clark and Kerry, I know

Kerry is Skull and Bones. That makes him tooclose to Bush for comfort.

Clark is a former Republican supporter who was in bed with the Stephens Group which makes him tooclose to Bush for comfort.

I am going with Dean/Edwards.

Dean's grass roots support will make ALL the difference in the future.

Just imagine putting all that Takeback the media and Moveon technology to defeat Bush and to support Dean,

Dean is not flawless by any means -- but he has many fewer flaws than all the rest in my opinion.


I too would prefer a Kucinich Presidency to any of the others. But reality is that ONLY Dean has tapped into the youth and wisdom and technology of your generation to drive his campaign. That is why it is imperfect and honest and sometimes prone to missteps -- because of his inclusivity and his straightforward manner and his reliance on the masses of people who are fed up with Bush and politics as usual by the DLC.

I hope you will support Dean

Peace

Seventh Son

[zulchzulu]

39. Tinfoil Hatters with the Skull and Bones BS

Look!!!!

It's a black helicopter!!!! It's going to take away your bong!!!! AHHHHHH!!!!!

[Draven]

38. My first choice is Kucinich

and my second choice is Edwards. I'm not going to give up on them until the end, whether they're president or whether they're knocked out of the race soon.

[flaminbats]

41. like you I can't make up my mind. I started looking at these guys in 2002.

Originally I had an open mind toward all of the candidates. I was the most hopeful about Kerry, Gephardt, and Graham due to their opposition to shrub's tax-cuts. I considered Edwards thinking that he would be the first to embrace national health-care. BOY WAS I WRONG!!!

First came the Iraqi War Resolution, this caused me to eliminate Kerry, Gephardt, and Edwards from consideration. I had never seriously considered supporting Lieberman or Braun early on in the primaries. I moved away from Graham after he failed to embrace any universal health-care policy. Then Clark entered the race. For several months I was swaying between Clark and Dean as my first choice, and Kucinich as my second choice. That is until recently!!!

Clark has just released his tax reform plan. As I listened to his speech I agreed that we all needed to pay our fair, and that our freedom is in fact not free! To me this was inspiring, a brave political call to duty...I felt the kind of high you get when you have that first kiss...remember that?

Then came the downer, he was going to allow all income earners who make $50,000 or less not pay taxes. We will need to raise taxes the most on the wealthy, to end the tax benefits for operations overseas, but not for mere vengeance. It must be part of a greater plan to repeal shrub's destructive tax-cuts, and to get our government back on sound financial ground. We should work to get our government out of the hole now, because the time may always come when it is needed for getting us out of the hole! A time when we cannot pay the higher taxes, or when credit is simply too tight for government spending. If we pay off some of the debt now, it will increase our ability to borrow if another economic or international crisis hits in the future!

Only one candidate has not yet jumped onto the tax-cut bandwagon, and I can only prey that she will not give into the temptation to do so. This is Carol M. Braun, her web site is the only one that has no mention of tax-cuts at the present time! For my second choice I am still wavering, if Dean does not embrace a payroll tax-cut..I would consider voting for him. But if he and Braun decide to join this taxcut madness, Gephardt would become my likely fall-back choice. I thought that nine candidates would leave me plenty of options, but only two or three seem to be running on mildly progressive principles.

[rucky]

42. IF Kucinich fades...

Save your energy for the General Election. You'll know who you're supporting then.

[info being]

46. That would make too much sense.

That would put too much power into the hands of the people...and of course the Party doesn't want that.

[genius]

47. Sharpton is idealistically the closest to Kucinich but he has no polical

experience. Kerry is probably the closest of the major candidates to Dennis. He's got a good labor and environmental record. Edwards has the second best labor record but he's had some bad environmental votes, such as Yucca Mountain (which Dean also backed). Edwards seems to be willing to learn. His comments in three debates about concerns about the handling of USA-PATRIOT really impressed me. I think that of the candidates, outside of Dennis and Sharptong, I trust Edwards the mosts. He's a trial attorney and trial attorenys tend to keep an open mind. It's why they can change their approaches to win cases. Edwards seems to be a geniuinely good person. I'm voting for Dennis - no matter what. But if he doesn't get the nomination, I'd like to see Edwards get it.

Take the time to look at the criminal justice thread on Dean and to follow the links. They are really frightening. I am praying Dean doesn't get the nomination because, in good conscience, I don't know if I can vote for the guy (even in the general election) after being reminded of his extreme stances against the Bill of Rights.

[JohnKleeb]

49. Actually I would say Gep has the best record on labor

but I must say I see what you mean about Edwards, he seems to be a good guy, has good intentions, and is in fact a friend of our guy. I like Kerry too. Sharpton, hes a good man. I think my choice will be either Kerry or Edwards.

[isbister]

50. Dennis is the furthest left...

...take one step right and you've got Kerry.

Have you read this:

QUAD-CITY TIMES STAFF

A time for John Kerry

A funny thing about the Iowa caucuses: Candidates spend an inordinate amount of time trying to come across as ordinary guys in the coffee shops, grain elevators, at the factory gates and school gyms.

John Kerry just can’t cut it.

He’s not ordinary.

He’s extraordinary, in the nicest and most qualitative sense.

At the QUAD-CITY TIMES, before he parleyed with editorial board members, we took Kerry to a break room unannounced to talk with three of our co-workers who took a few minutes off the packaging insertion production line. In just minutes, he was speaking easily with them about hopes, dreams, troubles and disappointments and answering their questions. He handled the curve ball deftly and walked away talking about what he learned from them.

That was among the experiences that differentiated Kerry.

All the candidates we met spoke very well.

Kerry listens.

Read the whole story

[JohnKleeb]

51. Kerry does impress me

has a good resume, solid views on many issues, I really like how he has gotten a 96 over the years from the LCV, he seems to be willing to fight for veterans rights as well, and he often worked with my personal hero, Paul Wellstone. Still no decision on my number 2 yet but Kerry is likely to be it. I got an question about Kerry too, do you think if he was elected, he would consider a current endorser, one Robert Kennedy Jr to head up the interior department because I think Kennedy and Kerry would really help the environment out. I do like Kerry even with the troubling IWR vote.

[isbister]

62. Re: Kerry does impress

I don't know about Robert Kennedy Jr... don't know if he'd even take it. I do trust Kerry to make a wise selection though.

And don't get me started on the IWR :-)

[JohnKleeb]

65. I wont get you started on IWR

:) promise
I think he would pick a fine secretary of the interior, this is after all one of Kerry's more stronger issues imo.

[Mattforclark]

53. I think Kucinich and Clark are similar in a lot of ways

IMHO Clark is the closest thing going to an electable version of Kucinich.

http://matthew.forclark.com/story/2003/11/15/15491/218

[JohnKleeb]

55. Wow you learn something new everyday

I admit I am not sure of Clark, but I tell you this, I am impressed that he wants a death penalty moraitum. Good job with this comparsion. I appreciate everyone's help thus far.

[Sean Reynolds]

57. Don't buy into it.

Clark has NO record. It's easy to just make stuff up to garner support.

If we're going where the stand on the issues today, Dean is more close to Kucinich than Clark is. Of course Dean's record as Governor of Vermont is pretty center-left.

[Mattforclark]

63. He is big on foreign aid too

Which is very important to me personally, and seems to be a pretty important part of Kucinich's platform.

Good luck with picking your 2.

[Sean Reynolds]

56. If it were between Clark and Kerry, I'd go with Kerry.

Then not vote or support anyone.

I'm sorry, but John you're better than Clark.

[JohnKleeb]

59. Well ya know despite shit I am ABB pretty much

Youre apologizing for thinking Kerry is better than Clark, lol I think so too, in fact you originally supported Kerry. Well you know I plan to support the nominee.

[Sean Reynolds]

61. I think YOU'RE better than Clark too.

[slinkerwink]

60. I'd go with Dean because he brings hope, and not Clark because of SOA

which Kucinich is completely against.

[JohnKleeb]

64. Well if it was Dean or Clark it came down to

I'd choose Dean. The SOA thing turns me off about Clark as did the Dupleted Uranium thingie, but lol its not just Dean or Clark that I am choosing from :), theres 5 others, now what also turns me away from Clark is my opposition to the war in Kosovo which Clark commanded. I don't mention this much but I must stress it, and I dont like Milosevic. Yep Kucinich is completely against the SOA, do you know Dean's view on it, I know Gephardt opposes it. Did you know that Kucinich got the endorsement of a priest who leads an organization against it. I really dont tell why I have questions about Clark, I used to when he was considering entering and early on when he did but I let it go.

[RandomUser]

66. Kucinich and Clark are allied against Dean on the MIC

Clark and Kucinich both oppose Dean on defense spending. Clark and Kucinich are the only two candidates who have call the MIC and PNAC by name and publicly pledged to cut the Pentagon budget. Dean opposes Kucinich and Clark on this. Dean has stated he will not cut the Pentagon's budget.

[cryofan]

68. I am starting to like Clark more and more

He talking a radical talk. How he can go back on so much of it after the election, I do not see.....I could vote for Clark if Kucinich fails to make a move.

[corporatewhore]

70. I couldnt vote for clark

school of americas and wanted to continue bombing vieques

[BrewCrew]

69. Kucinich and Edwards

Behind Gephardt, I really believe the things they say when talking about foreign trade. I'm ABB. But those 2 are tied as my 2nd choices.