Is Reverend Wright a bigot?

[cali]

He uses bigoted language. So is he a bigot? I think the conclusion has to be yes. "Them Jews aren't going to let him talk to me"? Try replacing Jews with Gays or Whites or Hispanics or Blacks. Any statement like that is clearly bigoted.

Wright: Jews blocking him from W.H.
By ALEXANDER BURNS

President Obama's former pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, believes Jews are preventing him from getting in touch ...

... with the president of the United States, reports the Hampton Roads Daily Press.

The Daily Press: "Wright says he does not feel any regrets over his severed relationship with President Barack Obama, a former member of the Chicago church in which Wright was the longtime pastor.

"Wright also said that he had not spoken to his former church member since Obama became president, implying that the White House won't allow Obama to talk to him. He did not indicate whether he had tried to reach Obama …

"Asked if he had spoken to the president, Wright said: 'Them Jews aren't going to let him talk to me. I told my baby daughter that he'll talk to me in five years when he's a lame duck, or in eight years when he's out of office. ... They will not let him to talk to somebody who calls a spade what it is. ... I said from the beginning: He's a politician; I'm a pastor. He's got to do what politicians do.'"

http://www.politico.com/politico44/perm/0609/expastor_returns_5b296cdf-74a5-41c0-a62e-ea16ad1a0577.html

[FSogol]

1. Yes, but why is he back in the news? n/t

[Deja Q]

5. Doesn't politico have a reputation for doing this sort of thing?

It's not like I go there frequently or anything, but Wright (he's the anti-gay guy, right? Or is he the anti-white one or the anti-black one, or which anti-prefix was he again?) is ye olde news. I think he helped build Stonehenge too, that's how frigging old that 'news' was...

[Occam Bandage]

8. So does Rev. Wright. He's stuck his head in front of the camera every chance he's gotten. nt

[vaberella]

2. I didn't think so before...I saw him as classist (proletariat supporter).

However, his recent comment "dem Jews" definitely makes him a bigot to me.

[TheBigotBasher]

88. Vaberella

I ask you to consider it in the context of Axelrod and Emmanuel, who no they would not let him gain access to Obama. A badly worded statement, but them jews, in that context is not the same as the jews, which would suggest a big jewish conspiracy.

Unfortunate remarks yes, bigoted no.

Ask why this picture is being painted.

[cali]

105. more apologist crap. sorry to see it.

and love that you believe Wright that it's Axelrod and Emanuel who are keeping Obama from Wright. Grab a clue: Obama is keeping Wright from him. He's no political moron, and I take him at his word that he's disgusted with Wright.

[Mike Daniels]

106. Lot of people using selective defense re: Wright

He generally says things they agree with re: the white man and such so they'll wilfully ignore the overtly racist things he says.

It's not unlike defenders of the African dictator (Mugabe?) who they give a pass to because the dictator "stuck it to the man" when he confiscated property. Never mind that the dictator then gave the land to his cronies who proceeded to drive the country into the ground economically. All that matters to these folks is that their guy speaks "truth to power".

[brendan120678]

109. So if you are complaining about one African American...

it's okay to call him the "n-word," but just don't use that word to refer to the entire population?

[Sebastian Doyle]

115. The "n-word" is a racist slur. "Jew" is not.

I'm not justifying the context in which Wright used the word, but "Jews" is not comparable to "ni**er".

[Occam Bandage]

3. Yes, and I'm hardly surprised that he's anti-Semitic,

given his admiration of Farrakhan.

[Captain Hilts]

13. VERY true. Farrakhan really fueld anti-Semitism in the black community.

Then there's Jesse Jackson's reference to NYC as 'Hymietown'.

[HopeOverFear]

29. he's anti white period.

[butterfly77]

34. Really..

then why are many of his friends white,or jewish, and the members of his church are white. I say bullshit. I don't believe it.

[HopeOverFear]

36. Farrakan? Really???

[burning rain]

80. Seems to me the previous poster was referring to Farrakhan, you to Wright.

For my own part I doubt that Wright is a convinced anti-white bigot. He lives in a nearly all-white gated community.

[LostinVA]

99. I doubt Louis Farrakhan has any white or Jewish members in Nation of Islam

I'd LOVE to see a link to that.

[butterfly77]

35. Some more bullshit..

just because you bring up Jesse jackson,rev sharpton and farrakhan doesn't mean that everyone in the black community believes,or goes along with everything they say just as I don't think that white people all go along with everything the kkk,aryan nations,etc...go along with what they say.. Are black people suppose to be stupid and white people have all of the sense in the world. Why a different standard for blacks??

[Occam Bandage]

48. I don't think he meant to imply that the entire black community

is anti-Semitic, or that blacks are sheep following Jackson/Sharpton/Farrakhan. Either statement would clearly be false.

However, I think it is fair to say that anti-Semitism rates among the black community is most likely higher today because of Louis Farrakhan than they would be otherwise, just as it's fair to say that militant paranoia and hate are most likely higher today among rural whites because of Bill O'Reilly and Glenn Beck than they would be otherwise.

[cali]

62. nope. no different standard for me. Clearly YOU have a different standard

[mopinko]

14. not to be startin' rumors or anything

but i would be shocked if he and farrakhan aren't friends. there is a strong black nationalist presence in that part of town there, the nation of islam and all that (farrakhan lives in hyde park, also.). they feel justified in their dislike of whites and jews, as well as others they perceive as their oppressors, like the arab and korean merchants.
the attitude of many is that an oppressed person cannot be a racist or a bigot. i think that is bullshit, but it is there.

[Occam Bandage]

20. "The attitude of many is that an oppressed person cannot be a racist or a bigot"

I spent four years in Hyde Park, and I agree with this statement.

[mopinko]

22. just ask lu palmer

he'll tell ya.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

4. Yes.

[HopeOverFear]

6. and he wonders why Obama separated himself from him

[960]

15. think about that one.

He knows Obama heard him talk like that for 20 years, then all of a sudden Obama didn't want to associate any more.
So yes, I can see why he wonders.

[TheBigotBasher]

79. Of dozens of tapes sent to them by a certain campaign

the news media could only find two 10 second rants worth showing to create a poutrage. So how do you know what he said for 20 years? Were you there or are you relying on Fox?

[firedupdem]

159. yeah, every sermon, every sunday was about the crap fox pushes..

and you know this how?

[960]

168. Oprah quit the chuch years ago because of his idiocy.

[jobycom]

7. That comment was. Whether everything else about him is, I can't say.

I've agreed with a lot of what he said about 9-11 and about the darker side of America's history. His comments here, apparently made to the reporter in front of a witness, are disturbing. I don't know how much they define him.

Others have made bigoted comments and gone on to demonstrate that the comments weren't the full description of them. I don't know enough of Reverend Wright to know how to judge him. Obviously, the only time he will make news will be when he says something that insults someone--that's just how the media defines his role. So without knowing him, I don't know how we can judge.

Not defending his comments, which were disturbing. Nor him, really. Just saying I don't know enough. Maybe others do, but I don't.

[nomorenomore08]

27. Yours is a pretty balanced and reasonable post, I think.

These comments may be Rev. Wright's most blatant demonstration of anti-Semitic tendencies, but they aren't the first - at least one poster upthread mentioned his association with Farrakhan, which looks more than suspicious now in light of Wright's latest remarks.

But on the other hand, I can see plenty of folks using Wright's unfortunate prejudices to discredit everything else he's said, much of which is quite true and valid. And if it can be established in the public mind that "God damn America!" = "Jew-hatred", then that's just one more blow against anyone who dares question this country's history, institutions, or foreign policy...

[Liquorice]

54. "God damn America" is very offensive to me. nt

[nomorenomore08]

64. Then this country must have been very good to you. Be glad about that.

Not everyone's experience is the same, however...

[Liquorice]

67. Oh please. I don't blame every bad thing that happens to me on America. Obama doesn't either. nt

[ecstatic]

73. exactly! nt

[Liquorice]

75. I was raised by a single mom in abject poverty. Exactly is exactly wrong. nt

[ecstatic]

76. Your point being that everyone should love America from birth...?

Were you ever treated like a second or third class citizen because of the color of your skin?

[Liquorice]

77. God damn America is offensive to me. That's much different than loving America

from birth. Sorry if you don't see the distinction. And if you knew my background, you'd feel like a fool for what you're saying.

[joeybee12]

9. Oh yeah he's a bigot...only a bigot would make a comment like that

so casually.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[jefferson_dem]

10. Yes.

His views on Jews, as expressed, are unbridled bigotry and indefensible, in my view.

[OneGrassRoot]

11. Discussion of racism and bigotry of all forms are long overdue...

It simmers beneath the surface and feeds hatred and fear...fueled by the Limbaugh/Faux crowd (minus Shep Smith -- I'm giving him major props!).

It's there and very dangerous, IMHO. Obama's election and -- much to their surprise -- him making it to inauguration, really set them off.

The good news is that the younger generation seems to have moved beyond this; the ones who are racists and/or bigots are heavily influenced by their family in many instances. Hopefully they can change.

[Captain Hilts]

12. I think his long track record of such language says he is. nt

[Liquorice]

16. Of course he is! And he has been for many, many years. nt

[DrToast]

17. Yes, and it bothered me that Obama belonged to that church

I realize he was probably doing it for political reasons, but still.

If Oprah is smart enough to leave, he should have been too.

[JuniperLea]

18. I agree... clearly a bigot...

People need to understand that equality is equality, and no one is more equal than another. If it's not ok to talk about "Them Blacks" and obviously it isn't, then it isn't ok to talk about "Them Jews" either. No "Them People" type comments should be tollerated by anyone, period.

[scheming daemons]

19. Yes... he is.

[butterfly77]

21. No.

I don't see how a preacher preaches a sermon and gives facts about what has gone on in the past and then relates it to the present and the prove in right in front of everyone's eyes and they prefer to deny it)I don't see how that makes him a bigot. I guess he would be if a bigot to some if they can't see things with an open mind or are on a steady diet of Slannity,O'lielly,limburger and the rest...

[MadBadger]

26. His rhetoric doesnt lead you to believe he just may be anti-semetic?

Them Jews wont let me near Obama.

Because thats what normal people say, right?

[butterfly77]

30. No.

and yes some normal people say things like that everyday. I don't believe he is a bigot.

[joeybee12]

41. Them black people won't let me near him...

...wanna try again?

[butterfly77]

46. He teaches love and togetherness for the races...

don't you get it yet..

[joeybee12]

49. Yeah, I get it...

but you don't...and it's good to see that the majority of the people here are very dismyaed that you can't get it.

[butterfly77]

50. And I guess now ,,,

you are angry because I don't believe it..

[joeybee12]

57. Apparently you can see through the "internets" and judge my disposition...

...pretty fancy stuff.

[LittleClarkie]

92. Nah. Just can't see how you're managing to call it "love"

is all.

[Occam Bandage]

51. Sure. He also thinks there's a "Jew" conspiracy to keep him away from Obama.

Ergo, he is an anti-Semite.

[cali]

55. no, he clearly does not. people who teach love, don't use bigoted hateful language, genius.

[ecstatic]

69. If someone said that (and it was true), it would come across as bad sarcasm

and not with malicious intent. I think the rev. just has a different sense of humor. Are the people in Obama's inner circle Jewish? If so, then I think the rev. just made an unfortunate joke. If the people in Obama's inner circle were all black, I would feel the same way if someone made a comment joking about that.

[Reterr]

59. "yes some normal people say things like that everyday"

Your "normal people" who use language like "them Jews" are bigots.
Some people on the left use Israel's awful policies as an excuse to foster and develop some pretty anti-semitic and disgusting attitudes towards all Jewish people.
And the current climate is prefectly ripe for conspiracy theorists to use "teh joose" as an excuse for every fucking thing.

I remember typing Tim Geith into google once and google's auto fill thing brings up as the third potential search "Tim Geithner Jewish". It is disgusting that such attitudes are sometimes passed off as lefty...

[LostinVA]

98. "Normal" people do NOT talk like this every day

However, normal bigoted people do speak this way. I, my wife, my friends? None of us use slurs. BECAUSE NONE OF US ARE BIGOTS.

[Rebubula]

153. LOLZ

Nice job excusing reprehensible behavior. Imagine if Karl Rove had said the same thing; Ted Kennedy; Robert Byrd; Bill Clinton??? What is your reaction then? The asshole that shot up the Holocaust Museum was mad about 'Them Jews' - does he get a pass??

Normal people that say things like everyday ARE FREAKING BIGOTS!!!!

[Indenturedebtor]

175. If anyone said that in front of me I might punch them in the ear

If I weren't at work that is. Have to look out for my family.

You should consider the quality of the people that you surround yourself with.

[TheBigotBasher]

84. "Them Jews"

being Axelrod and Emmanuel and not "the Jews" which would make him a bigot.

[Occam Bandage]

124. His excuse is that he meant "the Zionists."

So it isn't a reference to two people; it's a reference to a vague cabal. Still anti-Semitic.

[Indenturedebtor]

176. "Them Blacks" would be acceptable then

I wonder how my boss would react if I said something about "them blacks". Or how about "them gays"...

Yikes give me a break.

Just because he didn't tie it to the ever popular Jewish Conspiracy b.s. doesn't mean that it wasn't racist. There are other forms of anti-semitism than the ones that are widely popular on the left and far right.

[Occam Bandage]

28. "Them Jews won't let me near him" is not "giving facts about what has gone on." nt

[cali]

42. So if someone said "Them Gays are keeping the President from having

contact with me" that person wouldn't be a bigot? Your post is a crock of shit. The words he uttered were undeniably bigoted.

[ecstatic]

72. If he said "the gays" or "the blacks" or "the women" or "the men"

it would simply be a description of who was among Obama's inner circle. Where does the bigotry come in?

[Occam Bandage]

89. So, you think Obama's inner circle is controlled by the Jews? nt

[cali]

101. hard to see that the poster meant it any other way.

this is an interesting thread.

[ecstatic]

117. I have no idea who is or isn't

Jewish in Obama's circle. I couldn't care less about someone's religious background.

[Occam Bandage]

119. There's a difference between "some people doing X are Jews" and "the Jews do X."

A huge difference.

[cali]

100. let me give you a primer. blaming nefarious acts on someone's ethnicity

or sexual orientation or gender is bigoted. this is a no brainer. describing people in a negative way- and yes saying the jews are keeping me away from Obama- is an accusation. if you don't see the bigotry, you need serious help.

[Phx_Dem]

23. By the headline, I thought maybe he'd been taken out of context, but

it doesn't appear so. What a hateful think to say. This loser needs to shut his fanatical, biggoted mouth.

[Clio the Leo]

24. Oh, what a day this has been....

..... 8 hours ago, what he said was funny .... suddenly not so much.

[Rhythm]

39. No kidding... n/t

*sigh*

[Autumn]

25. Yes n/t

[CreekDog]

31. Yes. References to so called "Jewish conspiracies" are bigoted

plain and simple.

[HopeOverFear]

32. and yet, he never walked into a building and shot anybody

funny that...

[question everything]

38. Oh, is this the standard to compare?

If someone just spews sentences full of hatred but does not shoot anyone, then that someone should be given the benefits of the doubt?

[cali]

44. gosh, David Duke never walked into a building and shot anyone either.

You certainly set the bar high.

[HopeOverFear]

45. You're right. I was wrong to say that.

Hatred is hatred, no matter where it comes from.

[question everything]

33. Hey, Rev: I've got news for you

Obama really does not want to have anything to do with you. He was elected in spite of you, not thanks to you. So why won't you leave him alone and let him do the things for which he was elected?

You had more than your five minutes of fame. Now, go away.

[tammywammy]

37. Yes n/t

[dansolo]

40. Hasn't he considered the posibility that Obama doesn't want to see him?

I got the impression that during the campaign Obama became quite disillusioned with Rev. Wright. I believe that Obama just doesn't have any interest in communicating with him at this time. I don't think " the Jews" have anything to do with it.

[joeybee12]

43. With an ego the size of Chicago...

...that has never crossed the Good Reverend's mind.

[Beacool]

52. The man likes the sound of his voice a little too much, me thinks.

He talks a lot of crap and yes, anyone who states that the "jews" won't let Obama talk to him is a bigot.

:eyes:

[TheBigotBasher]

71. I would have thought you would have liked to have dug the knife in as it were.

He did not say "the jews" he said, "them jews". The most plausible explanation being Emmanuel and Axlerod.

Stupid comment yes, bigotry no.

[Beacool]

81. I think that Wright is a bigot, and furthermore, doesn't particularly care for white people either.

:shrug:

[TheBigotBasher]

83. Based on what?

At most 20 seconds of tape derived from dozens of tapes sent to ABC and Fox News by a desperate campaign trying to play a "Jesse Jackson" card?

This shows him really not caring for white people



I guess he wasn't caring for white people when he counselled the Clinton family through their "difficulties".

I guess he did not care for white people when he served in the US Marine Corps.

[Beacool]

86. I think that he has a chip on his shoulder the size of a boulder.

Joining the Marines had nothing to do with liking or not liking whites. Neither was performing his job at the Naval hospital.

As for the Clintons, he attended the prayer breakfast and may have given Bill advice. But he was not in Bill's close circle of advisers, let alone Hillary's.

[TheBigotBasher]

87. And you base this idea of him having "a chip on his shoulder" on what?

Having so completely dismissed his past service for all levels of America, white and black, poor and as powerful as a President?

All you have to go on is the dirt that a failing campaign tried to dredge up for no reason but to wind up "hard working, white America".

20 seconds of video, taken entirely out of context is enough for you to say a black preacher has a "chip on his shoulder" about whitey?

Wow.

Do you still like Siskind, Murphy and Johnson?

[Beacool]

110. The Clinton campaign did not dredge this up.

ABC and Fox were the first ones to air the Wright clips. If Hillary's campaign had wanted to pass them to the media they would have done it when it mattered, before the IA caucus.

Let me put it this way, if a white preacher talked about AA the way Wright talked about whites and if a presidential candidate had attended that preacher's church for many years, that candidate would have been lambasted and justifiably so.

You like the guy? Your prerogative.

[butterfly77]

148. I like people who speak the truth..

and Rev.Wright I believe if he says anything against any race he will give you historical FACTS but some won't listen because they think his way and style of speaking is racist or bigoted. They usually take the media's talking points or headlines and let them do the thinking for them.

Maybe some need to do some research on some of the subjects Wright talks about. Maybe some need to visit his church, but to some they would think that the church is being racial because in SOME cases blacks and whites worship differently,depending on the church...

[Indenturedebtor]

178. In studying Medieval History I can appreciate some of the good things

that many of the horrible bastards in history have done.

I myself am many things and not all of them are good. But I'm not a bigot... Wright is.

[butterfly77]

185. Can you feel the love..

why so hostile, I simply don't believe he is a bigot.

[butterfly77]

143. Thanks for posting this...

I was looking for this pic..Some people are listening to Slannity's talking points too much.

[cali]

97. of course it's bigotry. What if Axelrod and Emanuel were gay

and he'd said "them gays"? It's stupid yes. bigoted comments are stupid.

[Indenturedebtor]

177. Because Emanuel and Axelrod's defining characteristic is their Ethnic Group/Religion

Uh huh.

[genna]

189. I think the difference between the comment and being a ego centric person is

an inch wide.


The progression I've had on Rev. Wright is substantial. I don't think anyone will change my mind on Trinity UCC, Salem Catholic Church and the work they do in Chicago. I saw it with my own eyes and can't see how anyone on this board will change my mind on it.


For me, he could have been a pastor in most churches I've visited or been a member of. The ways he organized his sermons or produced a critique of daily living as a black person was spot on for the most part. It is the institution of the black church which has gotten African American people this far. If the way AAs express our faith is under attack, I am willing to take on the criticisms. I don't any group can define for me what our experience has been.


I think Rev. Wright has finally gone past a point I could defend. Obama chose a path in discussing his faith. I disagreed initially because I don't think any person should tell him how to express his love for Christ.

Rev. Wright was battered by the press and as such couldn't see anything besides his own self interest. Obama's run for the WH caused Wright's work to be disparaged. Defending himself by intentially blaming Jews is unacceptable. We have to deal with our own baggage by examining our conscience. If the media accused him of things he didn't say, didn't mean, or had no intent of, then there is little to nothing he can do defend himself in this racial climate.

These media types wanted to say racism was over and we are now in a post racial world. Rev. Wright's rhetoric was projected by the MSM as an anachronistic 60s black nationalistic hold out. The MSM plowed him under. Blaming Jews as a whole or individually isn't going to make that media portrait/projection go away even in light of these right wing assassins from the past few weeks. Until the terrorist bites them (the media or anyone else) directly on their ass will they see a problem. Otherwise the threat is a fantasy of a crazy uncle who lives in the attic.


I think Wright's damaged ego is blinding him from his call to love those who spitefully misuse you and treat you like you are less than nothing. Life is too short to entertain these negative thoughts. The heartache is between Rev. Wright and Obama. Jews had nothing to do with that.

[Milspec]

53. Yes and in a word...

he's an idiot

[Reterr]

58. Probably and I suspect insane to boot.eom

[emilyg]

60. Yes.

[WeDidIt]

63. Yep, his bigotry takes a fairly succinct path.

Generally, this form of bigotry is referred to as "anti-semitism".

He's an anti-semite.

[rollin74]

65. yes

a paranoid bigot

[Zavulon]

66. He's a bigoted, insane gasbag unworthy of attention, from the media or anyone else.

There are very few things I want more than for him to just shut the fuck up once and for all.

[TheBigotBasher]

68. How about he was speaking in an off handed manner

with a very bad, inappropriate choice of words, to say Emmanuel and Axlerod would never grant him access. It makes his choice of words stupid, but does not suggest that he is a bigot.

[ecstatic]

70. He's not a racist. He just has a different

way of joking/saying things and he's old. The point he was making is that he does not have access to Obama and will not for the foreseeable future. The tacky part comes into play when he pins it on a specific ethnic group; but at the end of the day, it's just harmless sarcasm.

[LittleClarkie]

93. What if we replaced Jew with, say, your own ethnic group

Would you still see harmless?

[cali]

102. yep. joking is a great excuse. old age is a great excuse.

harmless sarcasm? no, it's classic anti-semitism. and it sucks like any other form of bigotry. but do continue your rank apologetics for bigotry. it's most interesting.

[Occam Bandage]

126. He's joking! He's old! It's harmless sarcasm!

"The Jews control government" is one of the oldest and most dangerous forms of hate speech in existence.

[cali]

149. too bad that there are people right here in River City that believe that crap.

[zulchzulu]

74. Reverend Wright is political poison... and he made it all happen all by himself

I like him to a certain extent, but he will be political poison for the rest of his life. He had a chance to not do the obvious mistakes he made from a media perceptual standpoint. And since he declares himself to be political, he turned down the wrong road.

May he enjoy his retirement. And may he possibly revisit the words Jesus said in his final journey in his life.

[genna]

190. He had a lot of help, but I don't believe his last contribution to society will be this

Jewish comment.


What upset me the most about the primary was trying to explain why it is okay for
the Newt Gingrich.
Sean Hannity.
Rush Limbaugh. 's of the world

to disregard non White people, but it is not okay for Rev. Wright or Father Flagher to discuss white privilege in specific terms. I don't think trading for one prejudice for another should be okay.

[Raineyb]

191. I wouldn't put the discussion of white privilege in the same category of

Newt Gingrich and Sean Hannity's blatantly obvious race baiting at all.

[S_E_Fudd]

78. Yes...nt

[Colobo]

82. Of course he is.

[crimsonblue]

85. Yup.

[ddiver]

90. Yes, thank God Obama walked away from him.

He is toxic.

[LittleClarkie]

91. You don't have to replace Jew with anything else

It's a bigotted statement all by it's lonesome self.

And I'm sick of the "Barack secretly agrees with me, he just can't say it" bullshit, and the arrogance of thinking his opinion is sacred truth. As if he could never be wrong.

Dude can kiss my grits.

[Indenturedebtor]

179. You do have to replace it for people who agree with Wright n/t

[Raineyb]

94. It never ceases to bemuse me to find the vigorous discussion of racism around here

when it can be applied to someone of color. There's a whole lot of people who have no goddamn credibility when it comes to talking about race and not surprisingly they show up on this piece of shit thread.

[cali]

96. It never ceases to amaze me that some people want to excuse outright

bigotry because it came from someone of color. What Wright said was not OK. And this isn't the first time. At DU we spend, rightfully, a vastly greater amount of time discussing the very real racism of white America. That doesn't mean that bigotry such as Reverend Wright exhibited in that comment, shouldn't be discussed.

[Raineyb]

116. We don't discuss white racism in this board.

We have some people who call it out and a great many people who tie themselves up in knots coming up with reasons why black people who say something is racism are wrong in order to avoid facing it.

As per usual you all are quick to decide that a black person is wrong, or deficient but when we discuss the every day effects or the more subtle forms or racism the excuses come out. Until that stops happening there's a whole lot of shut the fuck up that needs to be spread on this piece of shit thread.

You have no credibility but your willingness to take the easy route in calling out Rev. Wright while not doing a bloody thing to look at yourself is exactly why this thread is shit.

[Occam Bandage]

120. That's a pretty flagrant lie.

This board discusses racism on the part of white individuals quite frequently.

[Raineyb]

158. No you think we discuss racism. We do not.

We barely dance around the issue and it's usually clouded by jackasses who consistently make excuses for it.

But the same jackasses never miss an opportunity to talk shit about people of color though. And if I were to point out the racism in that they'd deny that too.

We don't discuss racism at all because people like you can't handle it.

[genna]

192. I think it is the same problem.

I think most people can see fault when it is some other race. When it is our own, it is harder to see.

What pissed me off the most when we were talking about those monkey cartoons, those racist watermelon welfare bucks, and the other racist demagoguery is people had an explanation for it.


I think this comment is scapegoating at its worst. I understand why other AAs can't see it when a collective group of nonblack people gang up on a black person. I do think Wright stepped over the line.

I also think it hilarious how many people who don't see racism can see Antisemitism. It comes down to being able to police ourselves.

[Raineyb]

194. I never said anything about what Wright said one way or the other.

And frankly it's not germane to my point. It seems to me that many white people on this board don't have enough respect for us to even consider our opinion when we say something is racist and that situations like this give those same people a socially acceptable way to continue to express that contempt.

Expressing that discomfort does not at all mitigate or excuse anything Rev. Wright said and I don't think that the assumption that I am doing so is at all warranted.

[cherokeeprogressive]

95. He's not a bigot. He's just anti-Semitic

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

[EffieBlack]

103. sooo - the day after an antisemitic white supremacist attacks the Holocaust Museum

the press is digging up Rev. Wright and, the old standby, Louis Farrakhan?

How predictable.

[cali]

104. no. this was published the before the attack when Wright made the comments.

The media is surely exploiting his comments. That does NOT excuse them. Good dodging of his actual remark. Sorry you can't actually address that.

[solstice]

107. Sounds like it. And how could Obama not KNOW that when he was OBAMA'Spastor?

[Teaser]

113. who cares? I don't.

.

[MadBadger]

114. What's a Spastor?

[scheming daemons]

122. *Ahem* Welcome to DU

[firedupdem]

160. Have you ever been to his church? How do you know what his

sermons are about? Why did they keep looping that same fucking tape if they had 20yrs of info? Drop that RW bullshit! It didnt' work then and it certainly won't now.

[Indenturedebtor]

180. Assuming that Wright showed up yesterday and said this

He would still be a bigot.

I have associated with bigots and other forms of crappy people in the past myself. It doesn't make me a bigot, it just means that I made some bad choices. I don't blame Obama. But Wright is clearly a douchebag.

[Jennicut]

108. Yes, I think he is. He follows the Louis Farrakhan way of thinking.

I will never understand why one minority group would want to pit itself against another.
I think Obama overlooked it for years because he was his friend and a mentor/father figure that he never had.
Sad when you have to face the truth about someone you love but it happens. My own parents can be racist/paranoid at times but I still love them. that being said Obama was right to denounce any of his outrageous, racist comments.

[butterfly77]

145. So they all think alike like republiCONS huh..

[BklnDem75]

111. Who cares?

Wright's in no position of power. He's doesn't even lead his church anymore. Whatever he does or say has absolutely no effect in our daily lives whatsoever. The article misleads on purpose. Anyone with a clear head can see that. Is he bigoted? Perhaps. Why should we care? He's not writing laws that effects us. He's not a representative. The only ones that makes him relevant are the ones who wants to continue hating on him.

[Teaser]

112. maybe...but here's the deal

I don't know if this is a pattern of behavior or not. Sometimes people make bigoted statements, but they are not, at heart, bigots. Wright may simply have woken up on the asshole side of the bed that morning. However, If Wright has shown a pattern of insensitivity toward Jewish people, then yes, but I have no data on that.

[Bjorn Against]

118. Is there actually a recording of him saying this?

The words certainly look bad, but I don't want to pass judgment based on something that was written in Politico which is not a credible source in my opinion. If I were to hear the words in context and he really did say what Politico quoted him as saying without any additional context that would change their meaning then yes I would say he was a bigot. I am not however going to take Politico's word for it that he said this, I need more proof than simply the words of a right-wing website before I jump on someone.

[Clear Blue Sky]

121. Yes. How can his comment be interpreted otherwise?

[kwassa]

123. Update: Wright said that he meant Zionists, not all Jews, and that he misspoke

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/06/rev-wright-i-meant-to-say-zionists-are-keeping-me-from-talking-to-president-obama-not-jews.html

Rev. Wright: I Meant to Say “Zionists” Are Keeping Me from Talking to President Obama -- Not Jews
June 11, 2009 3:08 PM

In an interview on a liberal satellite radio show, Rev. Jeremiah Wright attempted to clarify his comments to the Newport News, Virginia. Daily-Press about “them Jews” preventing him from speaking to President Obama.

“Let me say like Hillary, I misspoke,” Wright said. “Let me just say: Zionists.”

Wright said “I’m not talking about all Jews, all people of the Jewish faith, I’m talking about Zionists."

..........................................

Wright then criticized Israel, saying, “I quote Jews when I say this,” and referencing books by Jewish authors such as “Judaism Does Not Equal Israel: The Rebirth of the Jewish Prophetic” by Marc Ellis and “The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine” by Ilan Pappe.

so no, I don't think that Wright is a bigot, and I have never thought Wright was a bigot, in any way, shape, or form. He has often preached against various types of bigotry.

[Occam Bandage]

125. That makes things worse, not better.

Before this "clarification," it was possible he was talking about Axelrod and Emanuel in particular. Now, it would still be bigoted of him to call those men "them Jews" as he is clearly implying Jewishness is to blame (can you imagine if Hillary had referred to Obama and Jesse Jackson, Jr. as "them blacks?").

However, he has now made it clear that he believes it is not just two advisers who are controlling the President. He believes "the Zionists" are controlling Obama. So it's not "all Jews" that are controlling Obama, it's simply a cabal of pro-Israel Jews that control him. His clarification is still straight out of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

[kwassa]

127. You are making a connection that doesn't exist.

To say that Obama is controlled by the pro-Israel lobby has no connection of any kind to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

How can you connect those two ideas?

The idea that the pro-Israel lobby has enormous political influence is a well-established fact. Whether or not they control Obama's Middle East policy is certainly up to question, and Wright believes that they do control it, apparently. How they would control access to Obama, except in the sense that there would be political repercussions if Obama did meet with Wright, is very unclear, though. Wright is blowing smoke, but this hardly makes him a bigot. Wright's sympathies are clearly more with the Palestinians, but that doesn't make him a bigot, either.

[Name removed]

129. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Meshuga]

130. You are the one making connections to water down what Wright has said

Being a Zionist does not mean you are part of a "Israel Lobby". The very people who push the Protocols of the Elders of Zion like to mask their antisemitism by claiming to be "anti-Zionist" as opposed to antisemites.

Sorry but your defense of Wright is not convincing to me.

[kwassa]

136. Here is a definition of Zionist

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/zionist

Zi·on·ism (zī'ə-nĭz'əm)
n. A Jewish movement that arose in the late 19th century in response to growing anti-Semitism and sought to reestablish a Jewish homeland in Palestine. Modern Zionism is concerned with the support and development of the state of Israel.
Zi'on·ist adj. & n., Zi'on·is'tic adj.

Now, wouldn't a pro-Israel lobbyist be a Zionist by definition?

[cali]

137. what does AIPAC have to do with wright's idiot accusation that

them Jews are blocking him from Obama. Ok, now it's "zionists", not jews. All Zionists aren't AIPAC members, they aren't even all Jews. And that definition is not a terribly good one. OH, and then there are Zionists like Rabbi Lerner- a true spiritual leader who doesn't use bigoted language, and JStreet.

You're digging a very deep hole. Interesting to watch it.

[kwassa]

144. What hole?

Would you say all AIPAC members are Zionists? It would fit the definition of Zionism I posted below.

and if all Zionists aren't Jews, it would support Wright's contention that he is not anti-Jewish.

Point out that hole to me.

[Name removed]

147. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Meshuga]

155. Exactly

"shouldn't shock anyone but the profoundly ignorant"

Well put!

There are others too like Israel Policy Forum and ARZA. They are Zionist groups. Why would Wright have a problem with them?

The "them Jews" slip is revealing enough.

[Meshuga]

151. Of course it would. However,

Wright "accidently" using the expression "them Jews" when he supposedly meant to refer to the so called "Jewish Lobby" and "Zionists" does not make your excuse on his behalf very convincing.

[kwassa]

164. Prove that Wright has a history of anti-Semitism.

If you are going to try to pin this on one remark, you don't have much.

[Meshuga]

183. Oh Brother!

Nice try, but I am not trying to prove anything to you. You are entitled to your opinion and I am not trying to change it. My opinion is what it is and between his own words, and your lame attempts to defend him, my opinion is not changing.

[Occam Bandage]

132. Wright did not say, "pro-Israel lobbyists have undue influence on policy matters."

He said that pro-Israel Jews are controlling Obama to the extent that they choose who does and who does not get access to the President. That is indeed Elders of Zion material.

[kwassa]

135. I disagree.

I don't interpret his statement to mean that they control all access to Obama, only HIS access.

[cali]

138. lol this is getting funnier and funnier. love how many angels you

have stumbling about on that pinhead.

[kwassa]

141. You haven't rebutted a point I've made, so far.

Hurling insults doesn't do it.

[cali]

146. I certainly have. Denying that FACT is just bizarre.

[kwassa]

166. uh, no, you haven't done any such thing.

You rant well, but debate .... not so much.

[Occam Bandage]

152. Oh, okay. So the pro-Israel Jews only control Obama's access regarding Rev. Wright.

In order to believe he was not spouting dangerous anti-Semitic stereotypes, you must believe that absurdity. Which, I might add, is still "nefarious shadowy Jews," it's just preposterously limited.

Kind of like saying, "agh, the McDonalds forgot I said 'no mayo' on my McChicken. Them Jews never get it right. I mean the Zionists who control our corporations. Er, I mean, the Zionists who control whether I get mayo on my McChicken."

[kwassa]

165. what absurdity?

all I am seeing is criticism of one comment taken out of all context.

If you have more proof of Wright's supposed anti-Semitism, aside from this single comment, post it.

[genna]

193. I generally open your threads, but you connected some things that are not related here

Zionists?

I think Wright should stop digging. Let the media conflate whatever else they want to. Wright is not going to gain favor, understanding, or any other kind of 'help' by letting people quote him.

There is no context here that will make that statement better for some.

[cali]

128. oh please. whata slimy,slimy statement. his dig at Hillary

is repulsive- and its not the first time he's gone after her. And the claim that "zionists" are keeping him away from the president is no better than his original statement. not only that but he said Jews, now he's trying to backtrack. he's a blowhard and a bigot. he's really nothing but an ugly little person. and that's sad.

[Beacool]

134. Still bashing Hillary?

What an asshole!!!

Yeah, he's the preacher who gave this "inspiring" sermon on Christmas day. Talk about peace and love on such a holy day.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAYe7MT5BxM&feature=related

:eyes:

[TheBigotBasher]

169. Which parts of that were incorrect?

Where does it say it was Christmas Day?

[AJH032]

171. deleted

[JayMusgrove]

131. Is Wright referring th Axelrod, and Emanuel?

pretty obvious Wright has a problem not being respected by Barack any more, the way Barack respects David and Rahm.

[Occam Bandage]

133. No. He's now claimed he meant to say "Zionists."

It's less "those two guys don't like me," and more "Jewish conspiracy against me."

[SoCalDem]

139. Many people his age, say things like that. Haven't we all cringed when an older

relative or friend has said something that WE now consider totally inappropriate?. The trouble with Wright (and many others), is that they have microphones close by, and news media reporting on everything they say.

Prejudice & bigotry exist everywhere, and sometimes, older people say things outloud, that are not acceptable in the current stage of P.C.-ness.

Wright likes the spotlight, and as long as he says controversial things, he will be in that spotlight. No fool, like an old fool .

[Beacool]

140. Is that your dog?

Cute pic?

:-)

[SoCalDem]

142. Nope.. just an internet pooch that made me laugh, when I saw it

Our poodle use to get a massive case of "icing" when she went out in the show:)

[Beacool]

150. OK, he just looks so adorable with his face covered in snow.

;-)

[Occam Bandage]

154. Yeah, it's true that it's no longer acceptable to complain about the Jews controlling everything. nt

[SoCalDem]

156. Never SAID that, now did I?

I guess speaking of things in general, is no longer acceptable at DU, since more and more posters take every thing as singularly directed at them or their own thoughts..

I am no mind-reader..simply commenting on a fact , that OLDER folks, often say things that "once-upon-a-time" in THEIR youth and perhaps in the privacy of their homes, may have seemed acceptable to THEM...not to ME or perhaps, to YOU.

[joeybee12]

157. He just said he meant to say "Zionists" instead of "Them Jews"...

...yeah just something some old guy would say when trying to make his previously offensive comment ok, no reason to be offended by this of course. Guy's a bigoted tool.

[quakerboy]

161. Does I care?

who is Wright to me?

[roody]

162. Rahm Emanuel is one Jew. Who are the others?

[subsuelo]

163. I've defended nearly everything 'controversial' from Wright in the past.

But this is indefensible.

[Swede]

167. Yes he is.

Some people seem to be okay with that.

[AtomicKitten]

170. In the classical sense, yes. I think in expressing his heart for Palestine,

he uses harsh, insensitive, over the top rhetoric toward Israel. He would be better served ratcheting down the ugly talk.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

181. "classical sense"? REALLY? He wasn't talking about Israel.. he was talking about JEWS

on Pres Obama's staff (the ones Pres Obama CHOSE).

Why make excuses where none should be made?


Some people need to stay out of threads when they don't have anything to offer but excuses for the indefensible.



The country Israel and the Jewish people are 2 different entities. Some shouldn't try to mix the two in order to obfuscate the issue at hand (Rev Wright's bigotry).

Rev Wright's comments had nothing to do with Palestine (or his "heart", :rofl: ).

They were hateful, bigoted comments and shouldn't be defended.

[AtomicKitten]

184. the Word Sphincter Police has arrived !

What part of "yes" don't you understand? Listen/read Rev. Wright's body of work and get back to us, 'kay? Otherwise, "some people need to stay out of threads when they don't have anything to offer but" their own bias manifested as word policing and exploitation of the "isms." We saw enough of that in the last election.

[joeybee12]

186. My, my, my...you seem to be proud of your ignorance and anti-semitism...

...you must make your parents happy.

[AtomicKitten]

187. Your ignorant and divisive anti-Palestine POV is duly noted.

It is possible to have a heart for both the Israelis and the Palestinians, but you wouldn't know anything about that, would you? Both yours and Rev. Wright's divisive verbiage miss the mark by a long shot.

[AJH032]

172. Jesus Christ was a Jew

I don't understand how someone who claims to be of the Christian faith could hate a religious group to whom their Lord belongs.

(Actually, I don't understand how someone can hate an entire group of people, period, but maybe I'm just not irrational enough).

[CreekDog]

173. Computer says yes

[AtomicKitten]

174. LOL.

Love Little Britain!

:thumbsup:

[Uzybone]

182. Yes he is a bigot, someone get that man a pitcher of STFU

why he seeks out the media to make even more incediary remarks is beyond me.

[genna]

188. Up until "the Jews" comment I would have said no. Now I have to say yes to a prejudice

I have been a hold out on Obama's attitude on Rev. Wright because of Wright's theological position on religious issues. I think the drubbing 'black nationalism (I don't think that is a reasonable label for what the black church has taught seminarians)' took because majority white Americans were uncomfortable with it was uncalled for. The black church is all most of us have had for decades, for my forebears centuries. It was and sometimes still is the only group trying to help black people stand up and move forward. The bite from the primaries from what I heard was black Americans aren't allowed to think or believe America has some continued explaining to do. I think America has done some revisionism which is unjustified.


Slavery was not the end...
Jim Crow was not the end...
Obama is not the end...

of hate.
of segregation.
of judgement based on skin color.


I am not shooting myself in the foot for thinking that or being upset about the implication that black politicians have to separate themselves from black institutions because non black people will be offended. If removing other people's offense is the only way for an elected politician to win, why do Republicans continue to win office? Sen. Strom Thurmond continued to be offensive to blacks but found his way into Senate year after year. Obama can't belong to a church now because the pastor's writing and the congregation's associations will be given an inquisitorial examination to make sure they are pure enough for most Americans. Inquisition like what Obama was subject to during the primaries means: Religious freedom is only good so long as other people approve. I think that notion is b.s. Faith is personal for a reason.


That said, Rev. Wright on its face was wrong to blame Jews as a whole or Rahm Emanuel and David Axelrod specifically for Obama will not talking to him. In substance, I think he is wrong.

1. Obama knows exactly who he is. He split from Wright because Wright insulted one half of his genetic makeup. Obama should not be forced to explain to any AA why he should love his mother and her family or justify his racial composition. I think God looks at the heart and weighs the metal of a person based on how they exercise their faith. Wright insulted Obama by saying his beliefs about race were only as good as a primary because Obama is a politician. I don't think that is true.


2. Why should Jews (I read that saying Jews is an insult. I think saying 'the Jews' is meant to be an insult because it treats individuals as a faceless group who move on one accord.) be subject to blame for Wright sticking his foot in his mouth repeatedly and insulting Obama? Obama doesn't need anyone else to think for him. Wright should know that after 20 years of pastoring him. I reject the comment because it smacks of the scapegoating that people have hoisted upon Jews for centuries. I don't think we as AAs need to feed into the historical problem Jews have faced in being blamed for any and everything. Is there any evidence in the media or within his personal experience which suggest people of Jewish descent stand between himself and a willing Obama?


3. I think Rev. Wright will need to brace himself when he does hear from Barack or Michelle Obama in the future when they can say what they really think. I didn't think black liberation theological discussion meant that one black person can define for another how he or she chooses to interact with non black people.

I thought theologians who discuss how religion has been used to subjugate people were trying to allow believers to look at imperfect human fragility, separate our flawed prejudiced historical position on faith, and see that God is God all by himself. God doesn't need us or our bias as a cornerstone to faith. Jesus didn't spend time castigating people based on their racial heritage even if later Christians gained the faithful by enslaving them first.

Wright did the exact opposite of Jesus example. He fell short. I can't judge the older AA generation for feeling put upon by everyone else. I can say to my elders that Jewish people have been subject to discrimination and shouldn't be subject to suspicion based on their religious faith. I think AAs have to learn to look beyond the skin and see the heart. Based on the record here, I don't see Emanuel and Axelrod or any other Jewish person in the administration as being the sole or main reason for Rev. Wright being on the outside looking in.

Wright showing his ass at the National Press Club shifted my view of him. I didn't stick a fork in him because I felt like his life's work was being assailed by the uninitiated and he was striking out. His pain doesn't justify this last statement. If there is a better context out there, then by all means he should present it.