Tale of the tape on Howard Dean

[PatrickS]

WASHINGTON - Aired in Canada and PBS stations in the United States, “The Editors” is a public affairs TV show that most Americans probably haven’t seen. It features a roundtable panel of politicians, journalists, and policy wonks who discuss American and Canadian politics, foreign affairs, and social issues.

But old episodes of the “The Editors” might soon become must-see TV for followers of the 2004 presidential race. While governor of Vermont, Howard Dean was a regular guest on the show, and the NBC News Investigative Unit has now obtained the videotapes of 90 of his appearances from 1996 to 2002. They help answer one of the race’s biggest questions: Just who is Howard Dean? Is he the angry, liberal, combustible flip-flopper that his opponents and some chattering pundits claim he is? Is he, as other rivals suggest, too conservative when it comes to guns, trade, and balancing the budget? Is he ignorant on foreign policy issues? Or is he the magnetic, straight-talking candidate his admirers say he is?

As reported by Lisa Myers on NBC's “Nightly News,” Dean comes across in these tapes as having a wide-ranging intellect, a sharp tongue, and shifting views on some key issues. 

Yet he also shows that he’s much more consistent on issues — like affirmative action and trade — than some of his opponents give him credit for. And despite the constant complaints that Dean has no foreign policy experience, he demonstrates a good grasp of international affairs.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3908334/

[slinkerwink]

1. I thought it sounded like a hit piece on Dean so I didn't watch it

I'm surprised that they did a good take on Dean.

[Nlighten1]

3. The funny thing is...

it almost sounded like they were trying to make him look bad but what they showed him saying....I loved it and agreed with him.

[slinkerwink]

4. then that backfired on them!

;-)

[ClarkGraham2004]

2. 5'8, big head, unelectable.

Sorry, couldn't resist. :p

[PatrickS]

5. I wondered how long..

before anti-Deanies would make fun of this article...not long I see.

[Military Brat]

11. Joke is on you ... people gravitate to persons with large heads

Regarding Vanna White: "And then one day, as she stood in a long line of young women bucking to become game show hostesses, she caught the eye of the TV mogul Merv Griffin. He was struck, he was to explain later, by her large head. Famous people, he noted, often had very large heads." http://www.pocolpress.com/sooner.htm

It's a fact: Merv Griffin preferred hiring people whose heads were disproportionately larger than their bodies because something about that physical configuration was appealing to the mass audience. And before you make a joke about his campaign being a game show, that's exactly what they've all been reduced to, just about.

Spin the wheel, Alex, and give me anything but a W!

[NewYorkerfromMass]

13. Nancy Reagan fit that bill

she was pretty weirdly proportioned.

On topic: Presidents tend to be tall and fully headed with hair.

[YellowDawgDemocrat]

14. Clark wears a hair piece

The next Dean attack flyer?

[JNelson6563]

24. He does? Wow!

Oh, I get it you're kidding! haha!

I doubt it will make it to the flyers though. The ones I've heard about were factual. No need to make stuff up.

Julie

[MercutioATC]

27. Clark needs to pull out the suit with the "BIG shoulders"

...his current suits aren't nearly cartoonish enough...


...seems I couldn't resist either...


:P

[Closer]

6. Too bad this

isn't a hit piece or a dean flame. It'd get a LOT more attention here at DU :eyes:

[madfloridian]

8. Ha!

.

[PatrickS]

9. I agree.

A positive article on Howard Dean? No way!

[madfloridian]

7. That is a great story! Love this part when he was righteously angry.

SNIP..."And Dean seemed to display a sharp tongue a few times on the show. In an April 1998 discussion on welfare policy, one panelist remarked that 80 percent of children who are born to single mothers end up on welfare. Dean lashed out at that statement. “That is absolute crap. This is absolute unmitigated garbage.” (Welfare experts at the Brookings Institution and at the Center for Economic and Policy Research say Dean is most likely correct, certainly according to welfare rolls in the 1990s.)

But other frequent guests on “The Editors” don’t believe that Dean ever demonstrated a temper. William Powers, a media critic at National Journal magazine, notes Dean always relished a good debate on the show. “He was combative and seemed to enjoy the combat.” But Powers, who wrote a 2002 article in National Journal about Dean’s appearances on the program, stresses he was never the angry person that his critics accuse him of being. “You never got a sense of real hostility.”

[PatrickS]

10. bumping!

:)

[batman]

12. what? dean IS consistant?!

;)

this is a keeper thanks!

[cthrumatrix]

15. Breaking...this "anger slam" on Dean is "BS"....nice ploy

[slinkerwink]

16. and it backfired on them and didn't even draw the attention of

other supporters since this article is a positive Dean article.

[FrenchieCat]

17. I just saw the piece....on NBC

where Dean praises George W. Bush in December of 2000 and says that he will probably be a 2 term president...

Also when he talks about Iowa caucuses being useless and the extreme fringes......that caters to special interest groups...

I don't think that this will play positive, IMO...

Personally I found the tapes pretty devastating.... let's see how this plays in Iowa....before you all dismiss it, OK?

[chimpymustgo]

18. You have to SEE the piece. It's not good for Dean. At all.

He comes across as angry, belligerent, opportunistic. And the things he said about the Iowa caucuses. Holy cow. Paging Dick Gephardt, John Kerry, John Edwards. Material for new ad in aisle 4.

[Jerseycoa]

19. No, not good

Not good. Not good. All in all, a dark day in Deanland. Whew!

[JNelson6563]

22. I thought it was very good

I didn't have a problem with any of it. I did after I heard the teaser. The way they made it sound concerned me greatly.

After I saw the report I expected more. The teasers had been rather hinting at darkness that wasn't there. I kept waiting for the dirt to surface.

Why does this thread remind me so much of all the remarks we read about the Wellstone memorial? You remember don't you? None of the reports were anything like the real thing had been....why was that again?

Hmmmm.

Julie

[JNelson6563]

21. What???

Nonsense. None of those things is true.

Julie

[JNelson6563]

20. Let's do the twist!

Me thinks ye are confused:


where Dean praises George W. Bush in December of 2000

Oopsie! Nope that was Clark. See Dean said he believed that "in his heart Bush is a moderate". See? That's not praise. No, it is an assessment of Jr. on the heels of a long campaign where Jrposed as a moderate and every corporate news whore promoted the notion. On the other hand, Clark said:

05.11.01 -- "I'm very glad we've got the great team in office, men like Colin Powell, Don Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, Condoleezza Rice... people I know very well - our president George W. Bush. We need them there." -- Wesley Clark

and after that he went on to say:


01.07.02 -- "President George Bush had the courage and the vision... and we will always be grateful to President George Bush for that tremendous leadership and statesmanship."

See? Now that's praise!!

and says that he will probably be a 2 term president...

BZZZZZZZZ!!!!!!! Wrong again! He said folks are saying Bush'll be a one termer like his father. Dean disagreed with that very confident assumption. As you can see Team Bush has done a remarkable job of keeping the public un/misinformed and he is enjoying high poll numbers. I certainly hope no one here disagrees with the theory that Bush will be tough to beat. Seems Dean was right not to dismiss Jr.'s tight grip on his usurped throne.

Also when he talks about Iowa caucuses being useless and the extreme fringes......that caters to special interest groups...


Oopsie! I believe Dean actually said those caucuses were dominated by special interests and that it was an awful system. Fortunately they have changed the caucus system so that folks don't have to be there for so many hours anymore. It used to be an all day thing, like 8 hours long. I can't imagine a more effective method of discouraging participation, can you? I wonder if many Iowans agreed with Dean, which would make sense, considering the changes they've implemented since Dean made that remark. I'll betcha!

I don't think that this will play positive, IMO...

I admire your optimism! I do hate to see such false hopes though. They are always dashed so brutally....*sigh*

Personally I found the tapes pretty devastating.... let's see how this plays in Iowa....before you all dismiss it, OK?

heh heh Do you think they were nearly as "devastating" as the tape of Clark praising Bush (that' actual praise now, not your above version of it ;-) )? And by all means, let's see how this plays in Iowa. I am sure they weren't looking through the same lens as you were and are unlikely to see what is not there.

By the way Frenchie, how are you coming along with those facts you mentioned way back when? Here's a refresher for you:

Dean has a great chance at the nomination....
lousy chance of winning....

this theory is not made up, but based on facts...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=788596#788614

Julie

[chimpymustgo]

23. Um, Julie. Did you see the piece? The real facts.

Some things don't translate into print. Maybe it's on the MSNBC website. Please watch the story before you opine.

[JNelson6563]

25. Yes, I saw the story

Didn't you?

Julie

[chimpymustgo]

26. Yes, I did. And I saw a belligerent hothead who is not ready or equipped

to be President of the United States

I don't see how any but the most strident Dean supporters could see otherwise - and some of them are probably jumping off this doomed bandwagon, even as we speak.

[bearfartinthewoods]

28. i just saw it on cnbc....wasn't pro dean by my eye

but i was half asleep. g'nite

[dsc]

29. flat out wrong

He didn't say Bush would be a two term President. He said, correctly, that it was folly to assume he would be one. Get it right next time.

[Samantha]

30. I saw it and thought it was devastating

particularly the remarks he made about the Iowa caucus. This was timed to air strategically right before the Iowa primary to hurt Dean. Make no mistake. His criticism of the special interests in Iowa (on both sides of the aisle) and the tediousness of the process, his unwillingness to listen eight hours a day to others telling him how to run the country, will not play well in Iowa. That is entirely what this was about. How to slow Dean in Iowa, and if NBC's efforts tonight are successful in that mission, who will benefit? Gephardt?

I have never been critical of Dean at this site. I am not a proponent of Dean's, nor a critic. I have said he is the best politician in the group. I believe this tape will hurt Dean in Iowa and I am angry that NBC has showed its hand -- it WILL influence the outcome of election 2004 through the willingness to display its Corporate prejudice towards certain candidates. Shame on NBC. Typical dirty Republican trick ....

Hopefully the Dean campaign will recognize this for what it is and issue a statement to attempt to counter the damage.