Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Democrats Signal They WON'T Take Advantage of Filibuster Proof Majority

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 09:58 AM
Original message
Democrats Signal They WON'T Take Advantage of Filibuster Proof Majority

Before onetime comedian Al Franken is sworn into office as Minnesota’s newest senator, Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid (D-NV) is aiming to lower expectations regarding the Democrats’ filibuster-proof majority.

“Democrats aren’t looking to Sen. Franken’s election as an opportunity to ram legislation through this body,” Reid said in remarks welcoming Franken to the legislative body Monday. Franken replaced former GOP Sen. Norm Coleman after a protracted court battle for the seat.

In other words, despite controlling the Senate by a filibuster-proof 60-vote margin, Democrats are seeking to downplay their hand.

“Franken also tried to minimize the effect he will have on the Democrats’ agenda,” Roll Call’s Emily Piece wrote in an article Tuesday.

“A lot has been made of this number 60,” Franken quipped. “The number I’m focused on is the number 2. I see myself as the second Senator from the state of Minnesota.”

Reid seemed to suggest that the fate of legislative battles in the Senate — and perhaps the defeat of the Democrats’ ambitious plans — lay in Republican hands. Democrats appear to have an uphill battle in the Senate for plans to provide healthcare to all Americans and impose carbon caps on polluting industries in an effort to stem global warming.

“Senate Republicans must understand that Sen.-elect Franken’s election does not abdicate from them their responsibilities to govern,” Reid remarked. “It’s up to them to decide whether they’ll continue to sit down and be the ‘party of no’ or sit down and work for the common good of the people. It’s up to them.”

More at this link: http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/07/07/democrats-wont-take-advantage-60-vote-majority/

CAN WE STOP THE GAME OF PRETEND NOW?

The democrats have been allowed to play the good cop to the Republican bad cop for a long while now. Every time courage and leadership are required, they don't even BEGIN to fight. Now that they are in full power, they have run out of excuses for not representing the people? The jig is up.

Let's say it together - ONE PARTY CORPORATE FASCIST SYSTEM (with the very few exceptions of true leaders found in the democratic party aside - we all know who they are).

This has to stop. We have to stop being pawns in this vicious circle. The dems won't stand for us, why do we stand for them?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Bonn1997 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
1. I wish Obama would threaten to campaign against Dems in the primaries who aren't on our side.
I think that's the only chance we have at getting these Congressman to fear siding with high-paying lobbyists over the public interest.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
41. I wish Obama would declare his unabashed support to universal coverage single payer system
I wish Obama would declare the DOJ was going after all the war criminals damn the political consequences
I wish Obama would declare that it is undemocratic and unconstitutional for the corporate machines to count our votes and ordain the GOP approved "Winners"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bonn1997 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #41
50. My one and only wish is for
an indefinite number of wishes!
You have good points, though. I agree with them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
subterranean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
2. I guarantee you the republicans would be ramming through legislation
if the roles were reversed. Hell, they did it even without a filibuster-proof majority! Why is it only the Democrats who have to play nice?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 12:03 PM
Original message
They have a much, much, much more cohesive caucus
and ideology.

We have to get all the liberal and moderate votes, virtually every "old school" Republican votes, and even maybe a few current Republican votes.

All they ever had to worry with was keeping Collins, Snowe, and Specter on board. People who just want a more moderated brand of their batshit craziness, people they could lose because they could usually get a Democrat or two (sometimes lots more) to go along.
They nearly always had the votes to push through their wildest dreams, we start with a bare majority within our own party towards our principles and have to water down from the 30+ we can for the most part depend on.

If the Republicans had a legitimate party we'd not have any 60 in our caucus, we have picked up ALL of the moderates and probably in the double digits people who would be Republicans in most any other time. The Republicans have grown the Democratic party by going so far to the extreme that they can't get elected in what still are moderate to conservative states and districts.
I wish we could take credit for moving the national conversation but for the most part we have just watched the GOP self-destruct and have "reaped the dividends".

The sad truth is that we probably don't have even 50 with a strong left lean.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #2
40. They're not playing 'nice'...
They're playing 'victim'... to the detriment of us all.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
3. All of that sounds like standard fare to make everyone sound bipartisan
Would Reid admit to any desire to "ram through" his agenda? Of course not, because that choice of words automatically paints things in a bad light. Franken's comment is supposed to make him sound committed to his state and his constituents instead of a national agenda, which is fine, because that's his job and it's what Minn. voters want to hear. Reid's last remark is designed to get the "party of no" comment out there again, and to make it clear that their continued noncooperation will still have consequences on the functioning of the Senate.

This isn't a white flag moment, even though I still wish someone with more guts than Reid was in his position.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
quantass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #3
33. Correct -- "The Art of War" strategy #3
Edited on Tue Jul-07-09 11:53 AM by quantass
However, dealing with democrats raising white flags is a consistent pattern. Many democrats (but not as much as republicans) also are corrupted by lobby money. Now couple that with their consistent lack of backbones and you get a hint of who they really are.

I thinkdemocrats would set a different course as a whole if Reid was not majority leader since it is his actions that set the precedence for how others in the party should feel and act. You act like a wuss and others will do the same.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BobRossi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
4. Empty suits.
I've had it with them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
5. As Samantha Bee said on Daily Show last night, they're now waiting for a Super-DUPER majority of 67.
:eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
asjr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
6. Playing nice in politics will not get us
anywhere. Why should Democrats be the only ones that should play nice? Republicans do not know the meaning of the word "nice." I wonder at times why the people we elected are sitting in Congress. Politics is a dirty game and we may as well learn how to play.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. personally, playing nice is what attracts me to the Democrats aside from the issues obviously
I don't want a dictator, even if I agree with what is being dictated.

That said, I'd love to see some real reform on equal civil rights and health care, but I don't think taking a "screw you" stance will get them there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kermitt Gribble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #8
16. You can't equate this to a dictatorship.
This is a democratically elected majority, chosen because the people either liked the Democrat's agenda or disliked the republican agenda. It is a mandate. However, with their reluctance to push through a Democratic agenda, we are now seeing that there really is no Dem vs repub - just a corporate party with a few stragglers as mentioned in the op.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #8
26. How is a legislative majority 'a dictatorship'?
What sort of nonsense is that?

You will not see any real reform as our party refuses to use its strength to pass real reform legislation and instead negotiates from a position of weakness to meaningless non-change non-reform legislation that does nothing to change the fundamentals of the neoliberal reagan republican party rule we have suffered under for 30 years.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. ok, perhaps my analogy was a bit full of hyperbole
but I still think that we can have our agenda successfully pushed through without resorting to Republican tactics.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #30
46. What exactly is 'republican tactics' regarding using your majority?
Was it 'republican tactics' when FDR and LBJ used their majorities to push real and meaningful reform through congress? Because if that is 'republican tactics' those were just about the only times in the last 100 years that real meaningful progressive reform made its way through congress and into law.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #8
54. I think
That it is ONLY the issues that attract me to particular democrats. I could give a rip how nice they are. If a democrat is soft on the issues or a corporatist or likes to get all mushy and bipartisan with the repukes and sell out the working class, then I have absolutely no use for them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. fair enough
And for what it's worth, I dislike the whole "spineless
" thing more often than not - I do wish they'd fight for more things I believe in. That said, I don't want them to resort to dirty tactics, and other mud-slinging BS, and that includes outright obstructionism. That's mostly what I meant by Republican tactics.

And that's how I read that statement, that they were not going to abuse the filibuster proof majority - in large part because (a) even with 60 Democratic votes, that doesn't mean they are all aligned the same and (b) I think it just creates a situation that the Republicans will use against them both in chamber and in elections.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
7. Look, as much as I personally would like to see them pass some things this way
I don't like when the Republicans act like lock-step asshats, and I doubt the conservatives in this country would like it if we did.

Call me crazy, but doesn't the government represent all of us, or is supposed to anyway?

I agree that mainstream politicians are too corporate for my tastes, and yes I agree that the Dems need to strengthen their stances on things and represent us better, but.... I can't see how anyone can say with a straight face that there's one party fascism here. I think the differences in the two major parties are quite glaringly obvious, even if they are both more to the right than I am personally. I'll still take Obama and the other Democrats - warts and all - over McCain, Palin, and the modern GOP any fucking day of the week.

Do they know this? Probably. I do think we need to be more active in communicating with our elected officials and in being aware of issues, and to hold them to their promises or vote them out, but I fail to see how saying "THEY'RE ALL THE SAME!!1!" is the least bit productive.

Instead of FEARING the government (which plays nicely into their hands, don't you know), we need to BE the government. Fearing the government and saying they are all the same breeds discontent and apathy, and imo makes fewer people vote, which does nothing to break the oligarchy that corporate powers hold, but in fact helps them.

If you're worried about corporate influence, then hit the corporations where they feel it: in their wallets.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #7
31. The majority of voters voted Democrat. The majority of voters voted for a Democratic agenda.
To not push for a Democratic agenda would go against the desires of the majority of voters.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. Well, all I am saying is that when Bush won (or "won" as I see it)
that did not mean that I wanted them to push their agenda through unopposed - even though they did try to do that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #31
49. And Republican Senators represent less than 20% of the voting population in the United States
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
9. In the immortal words of Check Cheney: "So?"
Edited on Tue Jul-07-09 10:16 AM by rocktivity
The filibuster-proof majority is Reid's concealed carry weapon: Not meant to be shown OR used unless absolutely necessary, but giving you peace of mind and confidence because you CAN show or use it when absolutely necessary.

:headbang:
rocktivity

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
10. It sounds more like political speak
They wont come out and say, "Too bad, so sad, republicons are obsolete and superfluous." Dem are just saying the politically correct thing to say. Just like no one (except crazy republicon King) is saying Michael Jackson is an icon of nothing more than a media feeding frenzy and a distraction from real issues.

Both statements will anger people for no purpose.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OHdem10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
11. Here is first clue this was going to happen.
Watch TV. Watch all channels. Channel Surf. In other words
watch TV and discern a theme (even though subtle that is being
propogated.

Starting last week. The GALLOP POLL . Country is conservative.
Country is conservative Country is conservative.

Polls are used to sell ideas. Gallop is used over and over for
this purpose. Gallop is a Republican Organization and results
skew Republican.

Connvince the American People the Country is conservative. Then
you can stop Health Care and other Initiatives dead in its tracks.

This has been the tactic used for eons. This is how they
stopped Clinton on many issues.

No one is willing to stand up and fight for the country. It is
easier to keep digging in the same hole. They are going to have
to run the country further off the cliff and enough people in
the upper 75,000 dollars annually and above before anyone can
bring about change. The Conservatives are running things and
our party is accomodating them. Nothing has changed.

The Country is conservative. I do not buy this but those who
count do.

Wall Street is planning their bets that Health Care does not
pass.

WSJ had a piece --WH is ready to postpone Public Option to a
later date. Now, who rules.





Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
craigmatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
12. The dems only really have about 52 votes for health care reform
I can't help but think that what they say is true. Republicans squeeze every drop of power from every situation they're in while the dems want to give power back if they ever get it. Obama is going to have to twist some arms like LBJ.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. One more than what is needed for reconcilliation vote on the matter...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OHdem10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #12
19. We have Deocrats who are not leaders. They are interested in only
one thing. Each person saving his /her seat in house or senate.

How did Baucus start off?? What can I do to get Republican Votes.
They never intended to win.

They could have written a Bill that would serve and help the
country--then gone out over the country explaining the bill
getting the people's support then presented it and let the
Republicans attack it. If they could change some things
without seriously harming the bill, good. Then brought
it to a vote.

From the beginning they were appeasing Republicans. This is
not looking out for the country.

The GOP cannot usurp any power unless the Democrats permit them
to do so.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #12
21. I totally agree. If Obama doesn't put some skin in this and press
the democrats to vote like democrats - those democrats are not going to get re-elected. It is game over for the democrats and for Obama too. Period.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #12
27. Yes but they should have 60 votes to end debate.
And then 52 votes is more than enough to pass legislation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Teaser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
14. "ONE PARTY CORPORATE FASCIST SYSTEM"
surely a form of Godwin applies here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Thrill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
15. LOL you think Republicans would be saying this shit?
These guys are fools
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SpartanDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #15
20. They would, but they'd be lying.nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #15
38. No. They are not fools. They are just the other side of the same one party coin

They have had their cover blown.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CanonRay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
17. Why do we bother?
Working on campaigns, donating. Why? If they don't pass health care, I'm done.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
18. To post here at DU we are expected to support Democrats and to stand with them.
Not on every single issue or that we cannot be critical of them, but we are expected to be supportive of them in general. If we don't like that then I guess we can choose to use someone else's bandwidth.

Also, another point, if it is written Republican then it should also be Democrat. That is a small point but it is telling of an attitude. If we are willing to give Republicans respect by capitalizing their name then we should do the same for Democrats here at DU.

60 is not a magical number and we all know this. Al Franken himself has publicly stated this, so we can give up the pretense that this is some kind of firewall against a filibuster. However, if the Democrats are serious about having Democrats and those who caucus with them toe the line then it should be indicated that for those who continually choose not to vote with the Republicans then there will be a price to pay for them. All that Democrats need are 51 to retain their power, but with all there is to be done, party discipline should be strictly maintained. There should be clear consequences for those who choose to continually vote with Republicans against the Democratic majority.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #18
29. 60 is the number that ends debate and brings bills to a vote
pretending otherwise is delusional or dishonest. They can vote against the bill, they need to vote for cloture.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #29
36. Yes, that is what should happen but most likely will not.
They will stop the bill by not voting to end debate so they may claim they didn't vote against it. It's like a way of having your cake and eating it too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #29
42. Where was that 60 vote "Rule" when the GOP had 2 votes?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. Indeed. Then again when they were the party in power they acted like the party in power.
But there were cloture votes that failed from 2000-2006. It is a rule.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #45
53. But pRetzeldimwit "deserved an up or down vote" and a filibuster was unameriKKKan
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
22. If that's how it plays out, the timing is perfect for a viable third party. nt
Edited on Tue Jul-07-09 10:55 AM by polichick
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
23. I'm shocked, shocked I tell you. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RandomThoughts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
24. Personally I am not putting that much faith into what I read in the news
I think things will get done.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Orangepeel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
25. Duh. You couldn't get 60 Dem Senators to agree on lunch
It's not the party "not taking advantage". It's that the party has never had the kind of control over individuals that the repubs have.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #25
37. Indicating that the Republicans have the leverage to dictate legislation is a different point

This isn't about the dems agreeing upon everything.

It is about the tact they take & the way they lead.

You get the majority and the first announcement you make is that you don't intend to use that power?

Can you imagine what the Republicans would do with that type of power?

The one party system is exposed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
crikkett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
28. What absolute dumb-bunnies.
Sheesh.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
34. The reality is that there are many issues where not all 60 Senators are in agreement
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
35. this is just infuriating. what kills me is that the republican congress.........
...in the early 2000s passed Bush's monstrous, obscene tax cuts for the rich by 51-49 majority. what happened to the threat of filibuster back then??

the Dems are gutless and spineless; i tend to think at this point that all of this two-party nonsense is a charade, a "good cop-bad cop" pretense to placate the voters.

the Dems are basically a center-right party, and the Repugs are ultra-right. both serve their corporate masters, not the American people. (with the exception of just a handful of people in the congress.) :(

:grr:

:mad:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
central scrutinizer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
39. keeping their powder dry
gotta choose your fights
gotta know when to go to the mat

Please add your euphemism for spinelessness
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
43. Once Again: Democrats Need 51 Senate Votes to get things passed, not 60 votes like Republicans cla

We just need 51 Senate votes, with or without reconciliation, to pass universal healthcare and other badly needed progressive legislation.

Even 50 votes will be enough with Vice-President Biden casting the tie breaking vote.

Don't let anyone b.s. you by claiming 60 votes are needed to pass a healthcare bill without reconciliation because the Republicans might threaten, or heaven forbid, might engaged in an actual Senate floor filibuster against the bill.

Let them! How long do you think they will obstruct the Senate by filibustering against a public option favored by a big majority of the people. The longer they filibuster the more they isolate themselves as anti-healthcare obstructionists.

All filibusters end. Make them get their cots out on the Senate floor, no phone in phantom filibusters will be allowed by the Democratic party. In current practice, Senate Rule 22 permits filibusters in which actual continuous floor speeches are not required, although the Senate Majority Leader may require an actual traditional filibuster if he or she so chooses.

We don't need the Republicans and even most so-called "Blue Dog" Democratic Senators will have to oppose a Senate filibuster against healthcare with a strong public option.

We'll get the 60 votes to end Senate debate, have no fear of that, and than the Senate can vote to pass the bill with a simple majority.

And of course, we can always keep the so-called "nuclear option" in our back pocket ready to deploy if necessary to stop any filibuster dead in its tracks!

One might think that only Republicans are permitted to use that option to hear some people whine.

Unless you have a bunch of whimps in the Senate, I think not. And if they are really that eager to wave the white towel of surrender at the slightest sign of opposition, how do they expect to prevent the Republicans from regaining control of the House, Senate and White House in 2012? That's exactly what will happen if the Democrats can't produce with their big majority in both houses of Congress and control of the White House.

If they don't pass universal healthcare with a public option now and if they don't stop this economic crisis from becoming a full scale economic depression, the Democrats are toast in 2012 .... they will go the way of Herbert Hoover and the Republican party of 1932.

It's now or never for President Obama and the Democratic Party. It won't get any better.

And let's end the nonsense about fake Republican filibusters:

--------------------------------------------

Time to End the Filibuster By Making It Real
By Robert Schlesinger, Thomas Jefferson Street blog
U.S. News and World Report
March 2, 2009

Is it time to eliminate the filibuster? Definitely not. But David RePass, an emeritus professor of political science at the University of Connecticut, has an interesting suggestion in today's New York Times along those lines but distinctly short of it.

RePass bemoans the fact that the filibuster has given the senate's minority party a functional veto over legislation in that chamber by requiring at least 60 votes to pass something. But, he points out, real filibusters never actually happen these days: the modern "filibuster" is more threat than action.

Which is where RePass' solution comes in:

... fixing the problem would not require any change in Senate rules. The phantom filibuster could be done away with overnight by the Senate majority leader, Harry Reid. All he needs to do is call the minority's bluff by bringing a challenged measure to the floor and letting the debate begin.

In other words, don't get rid of the filibuster. Instead make it real: Force Republicans to actually get up and tie up Senate business and explain why they're doing it. If the GOP (or the Democrats, in time, when they are back in the minority), want to filibuster they should be able to—but they should have to actually do it.

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/robert-schlesinger/2009/03 /...

----------------------

The tyranny of the minority
By PETER FENN
March 19, 2009
Peter Fenn is founder of Fenn & King Communications, a Democratic political consulting firm. He worked on the Senate Intelligence Committee and was a top aide to then-Sen. Frank Church (D-Idaho).


President Barack Obama has it right — there is a lot to change about Washington. The problem is, not much will get changed unless we confront the runaway filibuster in the U.S. Senate.

I remember, as a Senate page in the 1960s, the great debates on civil rights that would go on night after night. The rows of uncomfortable beds rolled in made Army barracks look luxurious. As a new Senate staffer in 1975, I also remember the heated debate over the effort to change the vote on cloture from two-thirds to three-fifths, or 60 votes, to shut off debate. Most of us thought that was a good thing, changing the Senate’s Rule 22, which was adopted in 1917. We believed it would be easier to stop obstructionists from paralyzing the Senate.

Thirty years later, boy, were we wrong. I joke that you need 60 votes to rename a post office. The “phantom filibuster,” as University of Connecticut professor emeritus David RePass calls the mere threat of a filibuster, has tied the Senate in knots.

There are really three alternatives. The first is to confront the filibuster as it was intended: to demand continuous debate on an issue, causing a major confrontation with the minority. This would tie up the Senate and provoke a political standoff. The second is to invoke the so-called nuclear option and end the filibuster altogether. The third is to further lower the number of votes needed — say, to 55 instead of 60. This option still leaves the Senate with the problem of a continuous supermajority to pass legislation.

As long as one party or faction feels compelled to constantly require 60 votes to pass anything, the short-term option may be to call its bluff and bring in those lovely cots to sleep in just off the Senate floor. The lawmakers can all look like Jimmy Stewart in “Mr. Smith Goes to Washington.” Or they can look like obstructionists who are impeding real change for the nation.

Please read the complete article at:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0309/20178.html

-----------------------------------

Op-Ed Contributor
Make My Filibuster
By DAVID E. RePASS
David E. RePass is an emeritus professor of political science at the University of Connecticut.
New York Times
March 1, 2009


PRESIDENT OBAMA has decided to spend his political capital now, pushing through an ambitious agenda of health care, education and energy reform. If the Democrats in the Senate want to help him accomplish his goals, they should work to eliminate one of the greatest threats facing effective governance — the phantom filibuster.

Most Americans think of the filibuster (if they think of it at all) through the lens of “Mr. Smith Goes to Washington” — a minority in the Senate deeply disagrees with a measure, takes to the floor and argues passionately round the clock to prevent it from passing. These filibusters are relatively rare because they take so much time and effort.

In recent years, however, the Senate has become so averse to the filibuster that if fewer than 60 senators support a controversial measure, it usually won’t come up for discussion at all. The mere threat of a filibuster has become a filibuster, a phantom filibuster. Instead of needing a sufficient number of dedicated senators to hold the floor for many days and nights, all it takes to block movement on a bill is for 41 senators to raise their little fingers in opposition.

The phantom filibuster is clearly unconstitutional. The founders required a supermajority in only five situations: veto overrides and votes on treaties, constitutional amendments, convictions of impeached officials and expulsions of members of the House or Senate. The Constitution certainly does not call for a supermajority before debate on any controversial measure can begin.

And fixing the problem would not require any change in Senate rules. The phantom filibuster could be done away with overnight by the Senate majority leader, Harry Reid. All he needs to do is call the minority’s bluff by bringing a challenged measure to the floor and letting the debate begin.

Some argue that this procedure would mire the Senate in one filibuster after another. But avoiding delay by not bringing measures to the floor makes no sense. For fear of not getting much done, almost nothing is done at all. And what does get done is so compromised and toothless to make it filibuster-proof that it fails to solve problems.

It also happens to make a great deal of political sense for the Democrats to force the Republicans to take the Senate floor and show voters that they oppose Mr. Obama’s initiatives. If the Republicans want to publicly block a popular president who is trying to resolve major problems, let them do it. And if the Republicans feel that the basic principles they believe in are worth standing up for, let them exercise their minority rights with an actual filibuster.

Please read the complete article at:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/02/opinion/02RePass.html ...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
44. "We have to stop being pawns in this vicious circle." - could not agree with you more, but... in pra

in practical terms.... what do we do???

seriously, anyone??

i'm fed up with this pretense of a two-party system, but... short of voting for third-party candidates, at least on local level, and short of engaging in activism, WHAT ELSE CAN BE DONE??
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sixstrings75 Donating Member (173 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
47. Pretentious Capitalizing Of The First Letter Of Each Word In The

Header...


Followed by an insulting diatribe against Ralph nader, Dennis Kucinich. Parroting of right wing meme's with a touch of Libertarian panache.

Hurling of insults and name-calling against anyone who dares question the Dems.

Obligatory, "it's only been 6 months' comment

Obligatory, "Why are you here?" comment

Obligatory, "He's doing what he said he will do" comment.

Finished with a mock statement of concern and final condescending insult.



*** There did I cover everything?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
winyanstaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
48. You are correct in my opinion.
This is inexcusable in light of the disasters our Nation is facing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
51. Reid needs to be defeated in 2010- one way or another.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-07-09 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
52. Reid has got to be the most spineless, milquetoast individual
holding public office. Look at this guy cross-eyed and he caves without so much as a whimper. It's very discouraging.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-08-09 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
56. As lon as NoHorse Harry is in charge, expectations remain low.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 26th 2024, 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC