Senator Snowe says she is working with Senator John Kerry on a fallback public option trigger

[Better Believe It]

July 8, 2009
Handful of Senate GOP Still Dealing on Health Care
Trish Turner
Contributing Editor
FoxNews.com

In fact, at 12:45pm today, Baucus’ GOP counterpart, Chuck Grassley, R-IA, will be meeting with Reid. Grassley told Fox that he plans on asking the leader just what he meant by his comments to Baucus, saying, “We’re still at the table. I think a bipartisan solution is the only solution.”

Finance Committee Republican Olympia Snowe of Maine, who has been at the center of health care negotiations, said she, too, plans to ask Reid the same question, when she joins the meeting with Grassley.

Reid is also expected to meet with Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-UT, and Sen. Mike Enzi, R-WY. These four Republicans make up a core group of negotiatiors who have been working day and night with Baucus and his staff, along with a handful of committee Democrats.

At present, Baucus’ bill does not include a public option outright, but Snowe said she is working with Sen. John Kerry, D-MA, on a “fallback” public option, a government-run plan that would kick in should reforms not be robust enough to achieve universal health care that is affordable for everyone.

http://congress.blogs.foxnews.com/2009/07/08/handful-of-senate-gop-still-dealing-on-health-care/

The above article provides yet additional confirmation that Senator Kerry is not opposed to a so-called trigger for a public option.
He suggested a 10 year trigger in a Senate meeting last week.

---------------------------------

In a closed-door meeting of Senate Finance Committee Democratic members and their staff Wednesday evening, Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.) suggested that the committee bill include a ten-year delay between passage of health care reform and the implementation of a public option that Americans could buy into, according to two Democratic aides.

Under the plan floated by Kerry, a public health care option would only be triggered by private insurance companies failing to meet certain criteria after ten years. Known as the "trigger" in legislative lingo, the idea is vociferously opposed by health care advocates who consider it the death of reform.

Reform advocates say that the system is already broken and that there's no need to wait any longer, also warning that the insurance industry might be able to game the criteria and prevent the public plan trigger from ever being pulled.

One source familiar with Kerry's unexpected suggestion said that the idea seemed to have little impact on the meeting and that the senators quickly moved on.

Previously, Kerry has expressed strong support for a public option without a trigger so that would be available immediately.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/25/kerry-pushes-for-public-o_n_220822.html

-------------------------------------

In what appeared to be a possible response to the above article, Senator Kerry's spokeswoman did not deny that Kerry suggested a 10 year trigger at the meeting. In fact, she doesn't even mention the meeting or what Senator Kerry said at the meeting in her entire statement!!!!

Read her full statement.

She merely said that Senator Kerry does not prefer "trigger proposals". I'm sure he doesn't prefer them. In fact, he might have said at the meeting that while he doesn't favor "trigger proposals" perhaps a ten year trigger should be considered in order to get a health care plan passed.

In fact, Kerry's spokeswoman made that exact point in her statement when she flatly said that a trigger should be considered
"if it's the only way to get universal health coverage" passed into law!

And now it's comfirmed that Senator Kerry is discussing a "fallback" trigger proposal with Senator Snowe.

[masuki bance]

1. Prediction- 1) Outrage. 2) Statement from the offices saying

"I have fought since birth for a public option, I campaigned on it, and it is what I prefer."

3) Everyone says "see, it was a lie"

4) Trigger passes.

[Better Believe It]

6. Senator Kerry does prefer a public option. But that doesn't mean he opposes a trigger!

[masuki bance]

11. Exactly! That's my point, everyone falls for this old spin.

The non-denial denial.

[avaistheone1]

66. The trigger option is the same as doing as exactly nothing. Shame on Kerry if he supports the

trigger.

[karynnj]

67. His office says he is for the public option - NOW

Choose to believe an anonymous source on FOX making a vague claim

OR

Believe the position stated by Senator Kerry's spokesperson.

[avaistheone1]

68. That is why I said IF.

I do remember Senator Kerry just sitting there at the Senate table not saying a word as the those courageous doctors came to the Senate protesting that single payer did not have a seat at the table.

I have called Senator Kerry's office myself. I was not overwhelmed by his support for the public option. He sounded lukewarm. So I am not very impressed with him on this issue.

[karynnj]

72. The Senator answered the phone, that is pretty impressive

Senator Kerry was on Dean's list from the beginning. The Nation magazine reported that he read some of the letters from Dean's effort into the Finance committee's record. The Boston Globe mentioned that he was supporting Kennedy's vision in the Finance committee - though as he is one of only SIX public option supporters on a 23 member committee. Kerry has been one of the people who worked for expanded health insurance. He and Kennedy wrote the precursor bill to SCHIP. Their version would have made it an entitlement and it would have not differed by state. He also had a very good plan in 2004.

It is stunning that you had no problem believing John Edwards, even though there was no match between his actions in the Senate and his words in 2008. Yet, you aren't impressed by someone who has fought for healthcare and was one of the key people, after Kennedy and Hatch, who deserve credit for SCHIP.

As to the single payer doctors, they were part of a non-violent protest - just as he was in Lexington, MA in 1971. He believed then and still does in the right to protest - and just as then, part of that protest can be getting arrested. Kerry was not running that committee and he would have been out of order had he done anything. He did not have the ability to allow them to speak. The fact is they did get what they wanted - attention for single payer - and option that just one Senator is publicly for.

As there are currently just 40 Senators on Dean's list - it seems that calling their offices might be more productive than calling Kerry's. That number needs to improve. It is because that number is not above 50 that it might be necessary to go with Snowe's plan with the shortest trigger that can be negotiated. That might be the best that can be done. Given the increased subsidies to people above the Medicaid line and below the level where they could be expected to pay for it completely and features like removing pre-existing conditions as a criteria for rates or inclusion in the plan, this bil will be better than the status quo.

[karynnj]

43. How does the trigger pass that committee?

1) Currently there are 6 Senators on that committee in favor of a public option with no trigger. Snowe is the only one of the remaining Senators who will vote is there is a trigger
2) There are 23 Senators on the committee
3) How does it pass?

Additionally, given that a public option will not pass the committee, which would be better for the bill passed out of committee - one with no mention of a public option or one that has a trigger. Remember that the bill as written out of Finance is not final - even for the Senate. It will be merged somehow with the HELP bill and via amendments. It then has to be reconciled with the House version. Remember that this committee is overweighted with conservative Democrats.

[masuki bance]

44. "one with no mention of a public option or one that has a trigger"

The one with a trigger. That is exactly what is being debated. So, why would you ask how would it pass? You answered your own question.


All the claims that people are making that a trigger is not being discussed is ridiculous.

[karynnj]

46. No one said it is not being discussed

It is being discussed. It is a serious proposal made by a serious, senior Senator, Olympia Snowe. My point is that the ONLY way a public option with a trigger (or without one for that matter) can pass the committee is if they win over many of the Senators absolutely against it.

You completely missed my point. At this point, the committee draft has no public option. My question was rhetorical. It passes only if Snowe convinces enough of the Republicans and the Democrats AGAINST the public option to favor a public option with a trigger. It might be that two realistic choices for a bill to come out of that committee may be:

- A bill, like the draft, with no public option
- A bill with a public option with a trigger

If you were a Senator on that committee - and the trigger bill was voted on first, how would you vote knowing that if it failed, the bill with no public option at all was likely to pass? Which is easier for the entire Senate and then the reconciliation process to turn into a plan with a public option?

[masuki bance]

47. Plenty of DUer's have gone ballistic claiming that Rahm, Kerry

and others have not discussed it. That is my point.

[karynnj]

48. I have seen them argue that they are not ADVOCATING for that

It is common knowledge that Snowe has proposed this. She is one of the senior Republicans on the committee and a highly respected Senator. There is no way her idea would NOT get some discussion.

The problem is the OP and others not understanding the difference between Senators (or Rahm) discussing something and Senators proposing something or advocating for something.

[xchrom]

2. i liked Trigger as what's his names horse --

not as anything to do with offering an honest health-care system for americans.

[RandomThoughts]

5. And it was gutted and stuffed. Triggers are not a good way to go. n/t

[RandomThoughts]

3. I am not going to believe it, with all the talk that is being in the media.

I am sticking with believing that a strong public option will pass, without triggers or delays. If they sell out to a few people bought by private interest, then they should all go down, not making them vote on it by compromising away a strong public option is just as bad as being one of the ones bought.

It is not that complicated.

However with all the noise back and forth, I still think it will pass, because I don't want to think about the alternatives.

[DrToast]

4. Bullshit.

Don't believe this crap.

[PretzelWarrior]

7. Call Senator Kerry himself and ask his office

pretty darn simple. Cut to the chase and take out the lobbyists and media middlemen/women.

Senator John F. Kerry (D- MA)

D.C. office phone:[phone]

D.C. office fax: [phone]

http://kerry.senate.gov/contact/email.cfm

If he doesn't deny it, then tell him you are against it. This especially works with people who are actually FROM MASSACHUSETTES.

[Better Believe It]

9. Senator Kerry and his spokeswomen are not denying it.

They know how to call news conferences.

Are we suppose to beg him for a response?

[PretzelWarrior]

12. no. merely asking would suffice.

citizen journalism is alive and well. go forth and verify, dude.

[karynnj]

49. There is no way Kerry, or any other Senator, will call a news conference

to deny an unsourced rumor on a position taken in committee. Kerry's office quickly put out a statement with his position.

The fact is that he is on that committee, has attended closed door and open hearings on this issue. He and his staff have likely spoken to every member of that committee. I didn't see you object when Schumer's office denied similar comments about him that actually included a direct quote from Snowe.

The fact is that you are blatantly biased against Kerry - and have accused him in rants of having Joe Lieberman as his VP and fighting against Nader, rather than Bush. Search is a wonderful tool on DU - and now I see where you are coming from. You have at some point attacked nearly every Democrat - and have praise mainly for Nader. In doing so, you have routinely said bizarre things - as in this post - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8331387&mesg_id=8331508 The fact is Lieberman was not JK's VP nor did he waste money attacking Nader. In fact, Nader actually was impressed by him and did not repeat the ridiculous line of there being no difference between Gore and Bush with regards to Kerry. (link - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/glenn-hurowitz/what-kerry-did-right-eng_b_88317.html )

[DrToast]

10. Are you impugning the integrity of a Fox News blog?

How dare you, sir! </Olbermann>

[PretzelWarrior]

13. yeah. corporate whore media has no role in this, right?

[blm]

24. even better... a 'source' familiar with the meetings...IOW... One of Schumer's SHILLS

is STILL trying to push trigger onto Kerry when it's Schumer who is pushing it - just as Snowe stated CLEARLY in DIRECT QUOTES last week.

Funny....the poster had NO OUTRAGE for Schumer's role.

[beachmom]

52. Never mind. Bloody Fox News. nt

[TornadoTN]

8. Don't the Palin's have a kid named "Trigger"?

That's about the only Trigger that makes sense in this debate, since many kids are going without health care along with their families.

A trigger is just a delay tactic to keep affordable health care from becoming a reality, sorry to say.

[lamp_shade]

15. I just wet myself a little.

[ProSense]

14. Still trying to float this BS story, huh?

You saw this, and you know the Finance Committee bill is being negotiated with Baucus as the chair.

[Cha]

16. All that energy used to

float shit..imagine if it went for something substantial.

[Better Believe It]

18. Senator Kerry should come out of hiding and fight for a public option and against a trigger!

He can and should answer two simple questions.

Is Senator Snowe lying?

Was Senator Kerry's spokeswomen lying when she publicly said in a news release that Senator Kerry supports a "trigger" if that's what is needed to get a healthcare bill passed?

[blm]

22. supports a trigger if that's the only way to get PUBLIC OPTION passed. SCHUMER's the one dealing

the public option away and you and his shills keep tryingto push it off on Kerry with stories planted with Schumer-friendly bloggers.

SCHUMER'S behind trigger and his shills are behind these planted stories.

Same tactic they used to attack Kerry during Alito filibuater. Same one they used to attack Kerry with lies about 2006 campaign donations.

Can't keep it honest, eh BB?

You just LOVE Schumer's trigger-happy plans, dontcha?

[Better Believe It]

26. Only problem is the "trigger" will never be pulled with a public option "trigger"

Look at what happened with the prescription benefit "trigger" passed in 2003. Have drug costs come down to "trigger" the public option?

[blm]

30. I was correcting YOUR spin - and you KNOW it.

.

[masuki bance]

20. Yes, and actually read it all the way through.

"...and obviously if it's the only way to get universal health coverage then people will consider a trigger that ultimately guarantees a strong public option."

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

17. A trigger that goes off when an already failed system fails (surprise!) again

Your leaking water heater leaks all over your ceiling and ruins it. A tech comes in, empties the pan of water and puts a float alarm in but does not actually switch out the water heater. Will you be surprised when the alarm goes off yet again and you have yet more damage? What did you gain from putting in the float alarm as the interim step? Nothing!

[blm]

19. STILL trying to pass off SCHUMER'S trigger onto Kerry, eh BB? Schumer's SHILLS have your ear?

.

[Better Believe It]

28. I'm opposed to any trigger suggested by Senators Kerry, Schumer or anyone else. Period.

Is that clear enough?

[blm]

29. Be honest - you show NO OUTRAGE for Schumer. You TWIST to pin it on Kerry when

he's a far more staunch advocate for public option than Schumer ever was...PLUS, Schumer and his staff have planted stories against Kerry before and it is apparent they are doing so AGAIN. The claim that Kerry is pushing trigger comes from an anonymous source who is 'familiar' with the meetings to a BLOG. When it was Schumer being outed as the one doing the trigger dealing it came from DIRECT QUOTES from Snowe herself.



YOU gave credence ONLY to anonymous claim against Kerry - in fact, you posted it TWICE and EDITED it maliciously to blame Kerry.

You wouldn't even comment on the REAL REPORT about Schumer's role that had DIRECT QUOTES from Snowe.

Something's crystal clear, BB - you promote the Schumer shill's version of events - I guess Schumer somehow miraculously earned YOUR trust - trust that damn few at DU would bestow on that piece of deceitful slime..

[ProSense]

31. Don't waste your time

The OP has issues with Obama and anyone who was one of his strongest allies.

[blm]

32. He sure LOVES SCHUMER and his shills and their PLANTED STORIES. Probably helped Schumer undermine

Alito filibuster, too.

[Mass]

21. If an unknown blogger on Fox says so, it must be true.

Also know that Snowe has said she was negotiating something with about everybody on the Finance Committee (and has had to retract that already half a dozen times). This is not even a direct quote. May be she just has no luck finding somebody.

I agree that I would want Kerry come out strongly and kill this BS, if anything to make you focus on what matters, but you are asking me to trust an unknown Fox blogger.

[blm]

35. FOX blogger says Snowe said it - but Snowe STATED last week she was working with SCHUMER on trigger.

So....who is interested in making Kerry the fallguy for trigger with these PLANTED stories? Schumer and his staff. Just like they planted stories against Kerry during Alito filibuster which Schumer was dead set against.

[blm]

23. HAHAH...hey BB - you used OLD text HuffPo had to CORRECT - but you KNEW it would help Schumer

and his tactic of pinning trigger onto Kerry.

Why would you intentionally mislead DUers, BB?

[Better Believe It]

25. Senator Kerry should clearly oppose any so-called "trigger" for a public option

Senator Kerry needs to get off his butt like Senators Sanders and Rockefeller and begin campaigning hard for a public option and publicly reject a so-called public option trigger because that trigger will never be pulled.

---------------------------------------------

Do Democrats Realize They're in Charge?
by Ezra Klein
Washington Post

Today, everyone is up in arms about a Wall Street Journal story in which Rahm Emanuel goes through those motions. I'm not particularly up in arms about this, because it's not a change in rhetoric. At all. They've been saying the same thing since the first day. Barack Obama has said this. Kathleen Sebelius has said this. Nancy DeParle has said this. And Rahm Emanuel has said this previously. As it has been, so it still is.

But I was struck by the rationalization Emanuel provided for the so-called "trigger" public plan. This is not an argument I've heard before:

Mr. Emanuel said one of several ways to meet Mr. Obama's goals is a mechanism under which a public plan is introduced only if the marketplace fails to provide sufficient competition on its own. He noted that congressional Republicans crafted a similar trigger mechanism when they created a prescription-drug benefit for Medicare in 2003. In that case, private competition has been judged sufficient and the public option has never gone into effect.

Putting aside the success, or lack thereof, of Medicare Part D, this is a bit of a weird comment. In 2003, Republicans controlled the White House, the House of Representatives, and the U.S. Senate. As such, when they tried to pass their legislation adding a private prescription drug benefit to Medicare, they allowed a small concession to Democrats: a weak public plan that would be activated if certain conditions weren't met by private industry.

What Emanuel is saying here, however, is that in 2009, when Democrats control the White House, the House of Representatives, and the U.S. Senate -- and have larger margins than Republicans ever did in the latter two -- that they are interested in settling on the same policy compromise: a weak public plan that would be activated if certain conditions aren't met by private industry. That's a bit weird. Weren't elections supposed to have consequences?

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/07/do_democrats_realize_theyre_in.html

[blm]

39. BB - Is Kennedy for public option? Cuz this Globe article sez Kerry "PROTECTING Kennedy's vision"

on healthcare overhaul in the Senate Finance Committee.

But then, you prefer unnamed sources shilling for Schumer who is the REAL CULPRIT pushing trigger to Olympia Snowe - just as she STATED last week.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2009/06/29/colleagues_say_kerry_is_in_midcareer_metamorphosis/

Schumer KNOWS how gullible some bloggers are and expects kneejerk stupidity to win out over facts - he COUNTS on it.

[beachmom]

54. Sorry, you have zero interest in this issue. You are only here to bash Kerry

in some sort of bizarre long term vendetta.

I am disgusted by the bizarre behavior of so-called "liberal bloggers", who only care about bashing Democrats they hate anyway. I just watched a story on BBC last night about the health care system in Holland. It is all private but heavily regulated.

[MarjorieG]

27. They work together a lot, and trigger attempt may be cover so she can sign onto public option later.

Kerry's long been an advocate of this public plan, and his 2004 plan was great.

[blm]

33. Except Snowe stated in DIRECT QUOTES she was working with Schumer on trigger. Only anonymous

source claiming to be familiar with meetings makes claim to blog that Snowe is dealing with Kerry on this.

[dionysus]

36. snowe probably talked to kerry at the damn break room vending machine and clowns ran with a pack of

lies...

[blm]

37. those clowns are Schumer's staff. He's the one dealing trigger with Snowe and he wants it pinned

on Kerry in the blogosphere. That HuffPost asshat Ryan Grim is close to Schumer's office and he posts whatever Schumer needs without question. The FOX blogger had no named source, either.

[redqueen]

59. The bright side of this is that Kerry will get a lot of calls

and emails from people against the trigger - which IMO is just corporate welfare.

Even if unnecessary, it can't hurt.

[Mass]

60. Agree. I just wished EVERY single 60 Dems get the call.

[redqueen]

61. Hear hear!

Daily!

[dionysus]

34. didn't you post this unsourced lie like two days ago?

[TayTay]

38. So, let me get this straight

The OP cited an article from Fox News which is citing an article from Roll Call, which is a subscription only source that can't be verified casually on the web, that Republicans are saying that they are not happy that Sen Reid may or may not have said that he wants Senate Finance Committee Chair Max Baucus to stop courting Republicans on health care reform. However, Fox News also reports that Sen. Reid may have issued a clarifying statement that he didn't actually say this to that source that can't be generally accessed on the web.

However, Fox News interviewed some Republicans who weren't there when Sen. Reid allegedly told Roll Call that he didn't want Republicans catered to for health care, but that the Republicans know what he meant anyway and they don't consider themselves to be irrelevant and cite work with Democratic Senators on things like a public trigger, only the Democratic Senator mentioned was never interviewed to see if this was true. And the OP is up in arms because, ahm, I'm not sure why.

Furthermore, this came up before on the Democratic Senator and he denied it, only the OP states that the denial of a story that was not attributed didn't count because, ahm, the OP didn't like how it was denied.

So, let me get this straight: I am a Mass voter. I am supposed to call Sen. Kerry's office and say, "Ah, I know you denied being in favor of a trigger option on the public funding option on health care reform. But some guy at Fox News says they interviewed a Republican who says that they might be working with you on this. Ah, this may or may not be based on something that was said to Roll Call or Fox News or not. But, ah, could you get right on that? Thanks"

Seriously, WTF?

[karynnj]

41. Your summary here is brilliant

The other thing is the one fact we know is absolutely true is that Snowe has had this position for months. I assume that she has spoken to almost every Democrat (and likely Republican on that committee.) It would seem that only Democratic sponsor for it that would make sense is one of the Democrats AGAINST a public option without a trigger.

Why? If she can not win over most of those Democrats and some Republicans on the committee, it has no more chance of passing the committee than the public option itself. Right now there are 6 Democrats who support the public option on that 23 member committee. Then there is Snowe who supports it only with a trigger. It won't pass with either 6 or 7 votes.

[Inuca]

63. Only 6 dems?

Really? That's quite stunning. I have not had the time to follow too closely, I did not know about this...

Any idea/speculation about how whatever comes out of the finance committee will be meshed with what comes out of he HELP committee? From the little I know, the two versions may be quite close to night and day? Am I wrong on this?

[karynnj]

65. Only 6 on the Finance committee

I compared the list that Howard Dean has on his site with the membership list of the Finance committee. The 6 are Rockefeller, Kerry, Bingaman, Stabanow, Schumer and Menendez.

Here is Howard Dean's list - http://standwithdrdean.com/where_congress_stands?chamber=Senate&party=&state=&hc_status=1&commit=Filter

Here's the Finance committee:


MAX BAUCUS, MT
JOHN D. ROCKEFELLER IV, WV
KENT CONRAD, ND
JEFF BINGAMAN, NM
JOHN F. KERRY, MA
BLANCHE L. LINCOLN, AR
RON WYDEN, OR
CHARLES E. SCHUMER, NY
DEBBIE STABENOW, MI
MARIA CANTWELL, WA
BILL NELSON, FL
ROBERT MENENDEZ, NJ
THOMAS CARPER, DE

CHUCK GRASSLEY, IA
ORRIN G. HATCH, UT
OLYMPIA J. SNOWE, ME
JON KYL, AZ
JIM BUNNING, KY
MIKE CRAPO, ID
PAT ROBERTS, KS
JOHN ENSIGN, NV
MIKE ENZI, WY
JOHN CORNYN, TX

Even in the Senate as a whole, Dean has just 40 on his list as "Yes". Maybe Obama will use his influence to increase that number - but we are not yet anywhere near 50 - which makes attacking Senator Kerry, who is strongly in favor of a public option is ridiculous.

Like you, I am mystified on how the two committees' bills can be combined.

[Inuca]

69. Thanks for the info!

6 is slightly less than half!!! And speaking of mystified, what on earth is Wyden doing? I know he has his own plan that he has been working for quite a long while with Bennett (UT), but still.... Wyden is no Ben Nelson! Anyway, we shall see... Heard this morning while driving to work that the summer deadline seems less and less likely. In my view, and based on no information whatsoever, they never really meant to have it done by the August recess, I think it was more like a kind of bargaining chip.

[Better Believe It]

42. So let me set you straight so you can set the record straight!

You wrote:

"I am supposed to call Sen. Kerry's office and say, "Ah, I know you denied being in favor of a trigger option on the public funding option on health care reform."

You don't know that!

There are several problems with your proposed phone call.

1. Senator Kerry has not denied suggesting a 10 year trigger on the public option at last weeks meeting.

2. Senator Kerry's spokeswoman has not denied the report that Senator Kerry suggested a 10 year trigger on the public option at last weeks meeting.

3. Senator Kerry's spokeswoman in a news release clearly stated that Senator Kerry favors a trigger on a public option if that's needed to get a health care bill with a public option passed. That's the exact opposite of your false claim! Read the news release without distorting it.

4. Neither Senator Kerry, nor none of his spokespeople have denied the report that Senator Snowe said she is working with Senator Kerry on a "fallback" trigger for a public option.

Rather than a phone call, it might be better for you to address your concerns in a more formal way to avoid any further confusion or possible misunderstanding on your part. So write a letter to Senator Kerry asking for clarification on the four hard facts I presented.

I wish you the best of luck in getting a response to your letter .... or perhaps it might take something a whole lot stronger .... like a miracle!

What do you think the chances are you'll get a frank and honest reply, or for that matter any reply at all?

I'd say the chances are somewhere between zero and none.

So until you have something new and concrete to offer rather than pretty weak political spin, Senator Kerry suggested a 10 year trigger for a political option and is discussing a public option trigger with Senator Snowe!

No more dodges, evasions and sophistry.












2. Senator Kerry nor his spokeswoman have denied the report indicating Senator Kerry suggested a 10 year trigger at a meeting last week. In fact, Senator Kerry and his

[karynnj]

50. Lol, you are the one who needs to be set straight

It is pretty clear that she understands her Senator and his spokesman considerably better than you do.

[TayTay]

51. This fails to make the case for action

And tries to prove a negative, i.e., that Sen. Kerry did not say something, to prove an assertion that is, itself, a negative.

I will not take any action or encourage anyone else in MA to take action based on what you say here. It is flimsy at best and based on hearsay that is unsupported by any of your cited sources. Those sources are 3rd hand or suppositions based on your assumptions and unsupported by any hard evidence.

Action is not called for here and I don't see the need for any letters to be written at this point. There is no underlying proof that Sen. Kerry has called for a trigger, only the false positive that he might have based on hearsay.

Perhaps more hard evidence based on something actual would, in turn, build a compelling case for action. This "explanation" is not even close to that.

[Inuca]

62. For TayTay

:applause: (and just for the fun of it :fistbump:)

[quakerboy]

40. Senator Snowe

Can either step up and put her name to real heath care, or she can face her constituents along with the rest. And unlike some, she ain't from Oklahoma. Though for some reason she seems preternaturally popular. Why is that?

[Inuca]

64. Because she is a good and smart senator

she is not a liberal, but she os not a ideologue either, and tends to think with her own head. Also she is pretty good at working with others, whether they are Rs or Ds. I assume she is good for Maine as well, I have no idea. I generally like her. I heard her last fall introducing La Palin somewhere in Maine with quite laudatory remarks and I cringed and felt sorry for her.

[karynnj]

45. Fox News is not a credible source

You would not accept the things it says of your hero Nader. There is no direct quote here from Snowe. At this point, the ONLY person willing to stand behind a comment is Kerry's spokesman speaking for him.

You also distorted her comment. She simply said that many options are being discussed. Discussing something and sponsoring it are miles apart. As Snowe has been pushing this idea for months, it would astonish me if she didn't advocate for it with Kerry and all other members on the committee.

[beachmom]

53. Your point? At this time there is zero chance of the public option passing the Finance Committee

I am so sick and tired of these games liberal activists play. I am for a health care reform bill passing Congress. But some are more interested in bashing good Senators who have worked on this issue for YEARS. WHATEVER!!

[Joanne98]

55. The trigger is a TRAP!

[beachmom]

56. This thread is crap!! Fox News is now a reputable source? nt

[Mass]

58. No, it is not, but the OP is famous to try to push any rumors against Dems rather than doing

something positive about healthcare.

Rather than this crap (issued from half a line in a Fox post), he could write a post asking to call every single Dems to tell them that a public option is NOT negotiable. Now, that could be useful, but this OP is useless and defending Kerry against it is a loss of time and energy.

[redqueen]

57. No, Kerry has NEVER supported a trigger.

If this issue was really your concern, you'd have just called his office and asked.

1-800-828-0498



No, it's quite obvious you don't really care about this issue.

You're not fooling very many people, you know.

[Better Believe It]

71. Senator Kerry's spokeswoman said Kerry might support a so-called trigger

Are you claiming that Senator Kerry's spokesperson lied?

Senator Snowe said she is having discussions with Senator Kerry on a possible trigger.

Is Senator Snowe also lying?

Prove Senator Snowe and Kerry's spokeswoman are lying.

I'm listening!

[karynnj]

73. You are inferring from her sentence more than she said

She said they are discussing options. There is no direct quote from Senator Snowe saying anything about Kerry - there was one for Shumer. No one is saying that she or Senator Snowe is lying.

I am completely willing to believe that Snowe has spoken to Kerry about a trigger - and that she has spoken to every member of that committee. That does not mean that he is currently for a trigger.

I also said in your last flaky op that if the option comes down to a Finance committee bill with no public option and one with a triggered public option, Kerry and EVERY ONE of the public option supporters on that committee will vote for the triggered public option - because it is the better of the two.

You can't always get what you want. Would you reject a hamburger because you really wanted a cheeseburger but the diner you were at couldn't provide cheese?

[Better Believe It]

75. I'm really sorry to hear that Senator Kerry has influenced you to support the so-called "trigger"

The so-called "triggered" public option is in reality no public option.

Once again, Senator Kerry needs to get off his butt like Senators Sanders and Rockefeller and begin campaigning hard for a public option and publicly reject a so-called public option trigger because that trigger will never be pulled.

Do you know what happened with the prescription benefit "trigger" passed in 2003. The trigger was never pulled and it never will be pulled!

You wrote: "You can't always get what you want. Would you reject a hamburger because you really wanted a cheeseburger but the diner you were at couldn't provide cheese?"

They are not offering you a hamburger, not even a plain bun!

Here's a better analogy.

Would you reject a $5 restaurant offer to visit their "buffet" dumpster in the alley because the diner wouldn't allow you to have a cheeseburger with fries for $5?

You'd probably go dumpster diving with a wide grin and a big "thank you" to management.

Because it's sure better than nothin even if the rancid food sends you to the hospital .... oh wait .... you can't go to the hospital, the public option trigger hasn't been pulled!

[karynnj]

78. Senator Kerry prefers no trigger -

Now, you could say that Senator Kerry influenced me to support the position he has - which is for a public option. In fact, that is my preference quite independent of the Senator.

I have not seen anything Sanders has done on a public option. Rockefeller wrote one op-ed. He chairs the Finance committees health subcommittee. Kerry has been incredibly busy as the chair of the SFRC. I would be willing to bet that you would not claim Kerry was working hard on this if he did the same thing. He pushed for a near universal healthcare plan in 2004.

Why attack one of the 40 Senators for a public option, instead why not work to persuade the rest.

The details of the plan itself and the trigger,if there is one, will determine how good that plan is. I actually think the size of the subsidies to people above the Medicaid level and the threshold they go to may be more important to affordability than whether there is a public option. The public option will not be free.

[Better Believe It]

81. Kerry doesn't "prefer" it but as his spokeswoman pointed out he'll go along with it

Just like you will.

Any health care bill that includes a so-called "trigger" should get voted down by every true liberal/progressive in the Senate.

[karynnj]

86. That is stupid

I think the thing to do is to work as hard as possible to get the public option. However if the choice is between a bill significantly better than the status quo and the status quo - they should vote for the bill. If they all voted against it, it would fail and the alternative is not a better bill, but what we already have. It would be elitist not to do so. How do you face someone with a pre-existing condition, who can not now get insurance - but could under that bill?

I can now see why you are a Nader fan.

[blm]

91. YOU are going along with those trying to pin Schumer's trigger dealing on Kerry. You're not here FOR

public option - if you WERE you would know that Kerry is leading the fight for public option in these meetings to protect Kennedy's vision of healthcare reform.

Why have you invested yourself in the lies of anonymous cowards?

[blm]

79. Sorry YOU can't comprehend Snowe's DIRECT QUOTE that SCHUMER is the one dealing TRIGGER

and that you put more stock in anonymously sourced blogs than you do Senator Snowe's direct quote.

Do you have an explanation why you believe Snowe is lying about Schumer's role as trigger negotiator?

[blm]

74. Finish the focking SENTENCE -IF there is no other way to get public option INTO the reform bill...

and only THEN would trigger be CONSIDERED.....and....Senator Snowe is NOT QUOTED as saying she is working with Kerry on trigger, but she WAS QUOTED DIRECTLY last week as saying she was working with SCHUMER on trigger deal.

Why are you trying to help Schumer pin trigger deal on Kerry and using anonymous sources instead of Snowe's OWN DIRECT QUOTES?

[Better Believe It]

76. A so-called trigger will kill the bill. That's why progressives oppose Kerry's trigger suggestion

Are you unfamiliar with the "trigger" in Bush's prescription bill passed in 2003?

It was a handout to the prescription drug industry and did not reduce prescription costs.

[blm]

77. YOU CLAIM Snowe said she was working with Kerry - Snowe was QUOTED as working with SCHUMER

but YOU need people to believe it's Kerry based on an anonymous source on a FOX blog and a blogger close to Schumer's staff.

Why?

Why are YOU invested in protecting Schumer's role as the trigger dealer?

Explain why YOU believe Snowe is lying about Schumer.

[blm]

80. You claim it's confirmed Kerry suggested trigger - PROVE IT using a source. Snowe SAID Schumer is

negotiating trigger last week. You SAW that article last week, yet you want people here to believe it's Kerry though NO SOURCE can be found for that claim.

Why are you so invested in protecting Schumer and tarring Kerry for Schumer's actions?

[Better Believe It]

83. Kerry's spokeswoman said Senator Kerry could support a trigger.

Is she lying?

Do you really think this is some gigantic conspiracy?

Kerry suggested and would have no problem supporting a trigger.

He has a right to support that and I have a right to be opposed to a public option trigger.

Kerry and Snowe haven't issued any denials and it appears that Kerry's spokeswoman stands by her statement, that Kerry would support a public option trigger if that got a healthcare bill passed.

So why are you so upset?

Facts are facts.

[blm]

84. Prove that Kerry suggested trigger. Snowe SAID it was Schumer who was dealing trigger.

Is Snowe lying?

Kerry's spokesperson said Kerry supports strong PUBLIC OPTION and would CONSIDER trigger ONLY if it was the ONLY way to get public option into the bill - you know this and CHANGED THE MEANING to get a' healthcare bill passed'...so...WHY are doing this?

Why are you working to pin Schumer's REAL ACTIONS (as Snowe revealed in her quote about the negotiations) onto Kerry and using anonymous sources to do it?

[Ikonoklast]

70. More half-truths and distortion from the OP.

What source will you use next, Stormfront?

So sadly apparent, your agenda.

[blm]

82. SUBJECT LINE IS A LIE - Snowe ONLY quoted saying she's working with SCHUMER on trigger.

Attributing Schumer's role to Kerry is DISINFORMATION and this FOX blog should not be allowed on DU as a source, especially with a KNOWN LIE.

[masuki bance]

85. Good grief, I'm not buying your portrayal of Kerry as a defenseless whipping boy.

If Schumer is backstabbing Kerry, I think John would shut that down pretty loudly in public or just as effectively privately.

[blm]

87. Snowe SAID she's working with Schumer on trigger - where were you on THAT thread? The ONLY source

claiming it's Kerry she is working with is anonymous.

Good grief yourself.

You must not be so interested in the issue if you don't KNOW by now that Kerry has been the LEAD ADVOCATE for public option in these closed door meetings.

The Nation last month said Kerry is reading letters from Dean's site into the transcripts. The Boston Globe reported that Kerry is PROTECTING Kennedy's vision of healthcare reform (strong public option) in these meetings.

Where were you on THOSE THREADS?

Too busy believing UNSOURCED claims from anonymous blogger?

[masuki bance]

90. Your yelling doesn't change the fact that Kerry's own spokesperson

made a statement in response to that article and the furor it provoked and chose not to deny it. Matter of fact the last sentence of the statement specifically left that door open. Every word, every sentence in a statement like that is carefully chosen. His office has not said that it was untrue, or that Schumer is making up lies.

The story made no claim that Kerry was against the public option, or that the trigger is/was his first and only choice.

[blm]

92. Not to deny WHAT? He wasn't pushing or suggesting trigger - spokespesperson said

that trigger would ONLY be considered if it was IMPOSSIBLE to get public option into the reform bill AT ALL.

And us older folks use capital letters for emphasis, not shouting.

Why do you discount the facts presented in other threads about Kerry working to protect Kennedy's version of bill, and Snowe's quote that she's working with SCHUMER on trigger, while you put stock in anonymous source on a FOX blog and as per Ryan Grim who some of us know to be plugged in tight with Schumer's office?

Do you ever WEIGH credibility? Kerry's been pushing for strong public option for many years and made it a central part of his healthcare platform in 2004. PLUS...He feels RESPONSIBLE for being Kennedy's voice in these meetings. PLUS.... Snowe stated she's working with Schumer.

[masuki bance]

93. Kerry has been working on the public option since birth, I know.

How does the fact that he is committed to the public option, rule out the fact that he may be discussing triggers?

[blm]

96. they are ALL discussing it - that's what closed door meetings do. Why even ask when his spokesperson

clearly stated that it is no secret it's been discussed, and that trigger will be CONSIDERED ONLY IF it is the only way to GET public option into the bill.

What part of that is even close to what this thread's poster claims?

You would prefer that trigger not even be considered at all if public option gets stopped in committee?

Every progressive senator FOR public option will CONSIDER trigger if it is their LAST resort for public option.

But, our argument here is why you give credence to FOX's anonymous source who asserts Snowe said she's working with Kerry when Snowe herself said she was working with Schumer, and while you downplay credited reports of Kerry's role in fighting FOR public option?

[Better Believe It]

98. He was a very intelligent and well read baby when he was born.

Thanks for pointing out that Senator Kerry supported a strong public option when he was born.

[brentspeak]

88. Kerry's D.C. office response to my question re. the trigger question was this:

"Any suggestion that Sen. Kerry proposes any legislation that would delay a trigger is false."

That according to a prepared statement given to the Kerry office phone-person. Meaning: If there is a "trigger" tied to the public option, Kerry is against any delay of the trigger. The Kerry phone person did not know the answer to the question if Kerry was against a trigger or not. He also said that Kerry was for the public option.

[masuki bance]

89. Geez, why wouldn't he know the answer to that question?

I wonder.....

[Better Believe It]

94. They seem just a bit confused down at Senator Kerry's office :)

He's not proposing legislation "that would delay a trigger".

What the frick does that mean?

Oh .... I get it .... he might propose, or might not propose legislation that would not delay a trigger!

Well, that's clear as mud!

But the phone person didn't know if Kerry is for or against a trigger!

Guess they are all confused down at his office.

Perhaps Senator Kerry was for the trigger before he was against the trigger before he was for it!

That's the ticket!

Perhaps Senator Kerry ought to come out of hiding and let everyone know, in his own words, exactly where he stands on the "trigger" and all other issues concerning a healthcare bill.

He knows how to call a news conference.

[masuki bance]

99. That's classic.

"Any suggestion that Sen. Kerry proposes any legislation that would delay a trigger is false."

Who said he was working on legislation that would "delay" a trigger?

[sybylla]

95. 10 years?

This is something only someone who's never had trouble buying or even keeping health insurance coverage would say. I have to say I'm surprised to hear something so idiotic come from Kerry.

[blm]

97. it's a LIE......Snowe said herself she's working with SCHUMER on trigger - Boston Globe reported

that Kerry is leading the effort in Finance Committee to PROTECT Kennedy's version of healthcare reform which specifically calls for strong public option.

There is a thread on that article in GD.

FOX blogger here took Snowe's statement from last week about Schumer negotiating trigger with her and stuck Kerry's name in there. The OP knows this, but is using FOX's distortion to attack Kerry.

[sybylla]

100. Is that the good news or the bad news?

The fact is it's absolute bullshit that such an option is even on the table. I don't care who's talking about it. All I should be hearing coming out of the mouths of Dems is condemnation for even having the thought.

If there are any Dems with a spine on that committee (and seeing the list I realize there's damn few) they'd make the bastards (conservatives and moderates alike) vote it down in committee and make hay like there's no tomorrow. 70+ percent can vote the bastards out.

Forgive me father for I have cursed. :hi: