How the media "gets" that pushing a debate of a 2nd Stimulus could kill a Health Care Public Option!

[FrenchieCat]

If you are paying attention to the news, now that the Michael Jackson funeral is over, you may have noticed more and more talk about a 2nd stimulus being debated in the media.

Some of us attempted to figure out where this 2nd Stimulus "Buzz" was coming from just last night and this morning:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8518125

http://www.fourfreedomsblog.com/Blog.php?Act=ViewBlogPost&BlogID=750


So why would it make perfect sense to start pushing a 2nd stimulus right in the middle of debating health care reform and the Public Option?

Well, you see, the Public Option debate is actually being won by Democrats right now. Polling shows that a larger number of Americans want a public option....so what is the Corporate media (who make millions upon millions every year from Pharma and Insurance advertising) to do about this? After all, how much is being spent daily by those against the Public Option, to defeat it? Something like 1.4 Million......A DAY! :wow:

Here's their plan: While in the middle of deciding whether we can trust government to administer a public health care option, start talking about a 2nd Stimulus.

Why?

Because that would apparently signal that the first stimulus plan, after 6 months....."Obviously" just isn't working; which means that this experiment of doing a very large governmental administered plan to deal with our economy is nothing more than a failure.

In otherwords, the conclusion we are "supposed to reach" is that since giving large amount of money to government to administer positive results in the economy fails, then why should we conclude that giving a lot of money to the government to administer health care could work?

Those who don't want health care reform to include a public option believe that "ordinary" Americans will be able to come up with that answer, and it is the answer that "they" want, the ones fighting the Health Care Public Option; a great big "NO, we Can't" to government administered programs.

You see, this 2nd stimulus conversation is soooo Brilliant in fact, that I believe that someone smarter than Obama would have had to come up with it; perhaps a group of people, whom I suspect, most voted for John McCain back in November of last year.

I do wonder how long it took the GOP in their collusion with big corporate media to come up with this masterpiece of an attack plan...and I'm wondering how long it will take brilliant Dem strategist to figure it out? It is, after-all, quite an effective strategy, considering that one only need so many patsies on each side and so many dumbass uninformed Americans to make it work.

So right now, all they need is enough clueless "Democrats" who are more interested in being able to say "I told you so" than those who understand the true ramifications in agreeing with Republicans that the Stimulus package just hasn't worked. Of course, they do not have to look far to find those Liberals who enjoy bashing Obama as much as the GOP to give their plan some leftward push....cause all they need is enough of them who are willing to shout out....."See I told you so! Told you we needed a bigger stimulus! Krugman was right and so am I!"

Meanwhile, the ignorant Americans who believe that the media still reports truth with their news, will be urged to stop trusting this President (done subliminaly as well as just outright)....and at that point we can all say Goodbye to the public option...cause if the government can't make such a large stimulus work, why give them any role in our healthcare?

That's how I see it, and when it comes to Media Grand Ol' strategery, I have rarely been wrong going back quite some ways.

[dkf]

1. That is funny because I haven't seen any Repubs talk up a second stimulus yet.

Can you cite any Republicans who are advocating this?

Warren Buffet doesn't count, neither does Krugman or Tyson as they are all Obama supporters.

[FrenchieCat]

4. Here......

"Even though the president on the first of July had said that the stimulus bill had 'done its job,' my constituents see it differently," said Rep. Mike Pence, R-Ind. "The only thing the stimulus plan has stimulated is more government and more debt."
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=8039651&page=1


"All of this talk about a second stimulus bill has been rather interesting," House Minority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, said Wednesday at a news conference with other House Republicans. "I think it's an admission on the part of the administration that their stimulus plan is not working."
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=8039651&page=1

----------------------------------

The Republican National Committee will unveil a new Web video Thursday critical of President Obama's plan to revive the economy.

It is the third such video released by opponents and supporters of Obama's stimulus strategy in the past 24 hours. The Democratic National Committee released a Web video criticizing House Majority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, for recent comments he made on the plan, and House Republicans have issued their own video critical of the plan.

Full script after the jump


Time: 01:17

Voice: "Barack Obama."

Chyron: BARACK OBAMA

Voice: "A failed stimulus plan."

Chyron: A FAILED STIMULUS PLAN

Voice: "Unemployment 9.5 percent."

Chyron: UNEMPLOYMENT 9.5%

Voice: "What would he have done differently?"

Chyron: WHAT WOULD HE HAVE DONE DIFFERENTLY?

President Obama: "There's nothing that we would have done differently."

Voice: "Nothing?"

Chyron: NOTHING?

Voice: "A failed stimulus plan."

Chyron: 2 MILLION JOBS LOST

Voice: "A budget deficit of 1.8 trillion."

Chyron: DOUBLING THE NATIONAL DEBT

Chyron: $1.8 TRILLION

President Obama: "There's nothing that we would have done differently."

Voice: "Nothing?"

Chyron: NOTHING?

Voice: "Biden says they got it wrong."

Chyron: THEY GOT IT WRONG

Vice President Biden: "We and everyone else misread the economy."

Voice: "Obama's response?"

Chyron: OBAMA'S RESPONSE?

President Obama: "There's nothing that we would have done differently."

Voice: "Nothing?"

Chyron: NOTHING?

Voice: "Stimulus money squandered on fraud and wasteful spending. Not on creating new jobs."

Chyron: STIMULUS MONEY SQUANDERED ON FRAUD AND WASTEFUL SPENDING NOT ON CREATING NEW JOBS

Vice President Biden: "We know some of this money is going to be wasted … People are being scammed already."

Chyron: $18 MILLION FOR RECOVERY.GOV WEBSITE REDESIGN

Voice: "Obama's answer?"

Chyron: OBAMA'S ANSWER?

President Obama: "There's nothing that we would have done differently."

Voice: "Nothing?"

Chyron: NOTHING?

Voice: "Even Democrat leaders are disappointed."

House Majority Leader Hoyer: "I don't think anybody can honestly say that we are satisfied with the results so far."

Chyron: MAJORITY LEADER STENY HOYER

Voice: "An economy in trouble. Soaring unemployment. Soaring deficits. Stimulus money misused."

Chyron: SOARING UNEMPLOYMENT SOARING DEFICITS MONEY MISUSED

Voice: "Obama's answer?"

Chyron: OBAMA'S ANSWER?

President Obama: "There's nothing we would have done differently."

Chyron: NOTHING

Chyron: Paid for by the Republican National Committee. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/07/09/first-on-the-ticker-rnc-blasts-obamas-stimulus-plan-in-new-video/

[Cleita]

2. Well, we the people, got Congress to actually start coming up with a real

health care reform plan when it looked like all they were doing was rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. A massive email, telephone and snail mail campaign to all the media outlets could perhaps make them change their tune as well.

[FrenchieCat]

8. Yes, we need to push back hard!

and some of us need to stop buying what is being sold to us at the flea market, aka, via corporate talking heads.

[RandomThoughts]

3. And every time they try something like that it has backfired.

Because it is based on a lie. And people know it.

They created the economic problems.

The stimulus will take some time to work

It would be worse without stimulus.

They are fighting against states raising taxes to pay for jobs they want to see get lost.

Any way you look at it, the Republicans currently want the US to fail because they do not care about people in the USA.

[FrenchieCat]

5. That is as long as folks don't buy into the spin......

and in this case, the indirect attack was supposed to mask the aim and the dual goal.

[annabanana]

6. I do believe you are onto something...

It (2nd stimulous) seems to be the flavor of the day in corpomedia... Odd that few of them bother to mention that onlt about 10% of the original stimulous money is out the door...

And that the slowness of $$ dissemination is at least partly because the obstructionist repugs won't confirm Obama's appointments..

YEE GODS!

[FrenchieCat]

7. the meme yes....is this 2nd stimulus that President Obama stated

we didn't need right now (cause he would be a fool to say outright that it won't ever be needed)at his last press conference on the subject "when asked".


Plus the meme of his "dropping" poll numbers.

equals......hard work by our Corporate media.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

12. And the fact that several Repug governors (i.e Sanford, Jindal)

have been hemming and hawing about and even fighting NOT to take the stimulus $$$$ Well, gee, what do they expect? Well, we know what they hope will happen- that people will blame Obama for the stimulus not working- but hopefully people are not spun into oblivion enough to realize that if their governors aren't taking the money, there's no way their states are going to benefit from the stimulus money- that the stimulus is going to work! Geez!!!!
:eyes:

[Sebastian Doyle]

9. The fake Democrats in the Senate are determined to kill the public option one way or another

Thom Hartmann just reported that Mary Landrieu is now claiming to support a "public option".

Now anybody knowing her pathetic voting history would know better to believe this corporatist DLC swine is even remotely interested in voting for ANYTHING that benefits the American People. So her comments to the contrary, along with those of other known traitors like Schumer and Spineless Harry Reid, are huge red flags that the "fix is in" already as far as any REAL progress in health care. :evilfrown:

[FrenchieCat]

10. And so this relates to this 2nd stimulus talk?

please elaborate.

Thanks! :hi:

[Sebastian Doyle]

11. Didn't you make that connection in the OP?

I was just expanding on that. :)

[FrenchieCat]

13. I wanted more from you,

more, more, more! :)

[FrenchieCat]

14. See by the ratings that this is rubbing some the wrong way?

Wonder why?

Hope they have actually commented, so we can debate! I always love a good debate.

[Oregone]

46. Because you are developing a pattern of convincing people to not fight for a corrective stimulus

And now manufacturing reasons, going so far as to use demagoguery.

There are numbers and there are facts to discuss. People don't need an irrational fear of losing health care reform as some road block to the truth and to doing the right thing.

[RandomThoughts]

15. They are trying to change public opinion with deception.

The truth is the economic problems came from the last 30 years and Bush policies
The stimulus will take some time to make a difference
And some states and Republicans want the USA to fail so they can have political power. They don't care about the people of America.

But America knows the truth, and knows what they are doing.


So to lighten things up with a few movie clips how about some scenes from Slap Shot

Hanson Brothers
http://www.up-video.com/watch.php?type=youtube&v=LJkHm2WtSsk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i_D6oQO6b8
(Note that Paul Newman himself said that it was not about violence, it was cartoon violence, and I don't think of it in violent ways either.)

The funny thing is they think of taxes as taking, but do not see distribution through a system like capitalism as taking. It is all perspective for self gain.

And a song
Where's the love
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrWamyL4Azc

Something has been going on and I don't know what it is
You don't mind the taking girl, but you don't know how to give
You drove me crazy but I don't know baby
You're thinking that it's me you're fooling
Where's the right in, all of our fighting?
Look at what you're doing
Where's the love
It's not enough
It makes the world go 'round and 'round and...
Where's the love
Give it up
It makes the world go 'round and 'round and 'round
Can you tell me what you see whenever you look around?
We're tripping all over ourselves and pulling each other down
We're separating, consciousness is fading
Are you thinking that it's me you're fooling?
Where's the right in, all of our fighting?
Look at, look at, look at what we're doing



Dark clouds all around, lightning, rain pouring down
Waiting for the bright light to break through
Face down on the ground
Pick us up at the lost and found
We've got to change our point of view, if we want the sky blue
We're segregating, consciences are fading
You're thinking that it's me you're fooling
Where's the right in, all of our fighting
Look at what we're doing

[FrenchieCat]

16. Thanks RandomThoughts.....

I do appreciate your input on this, and on many other issues!

[depakid]

17. The second stimulus "buzz" is coming from economists looking at the numbers

It's not some media conspiracy.

[FrenchieCat]

18. Can you point me to those creating the buzz,

rather to those responding to it?

Thanks.

PS: Cause I do believe in Corporate media conspiracies.....

[depakid]

21. See my thread on this very page, for starters

Many predicted (based on the numbers) that this was likely to be the case- and that it would become politically troublesome down the line to add onto the original bill.

One of those deals that happens when "compromise" and "bipartisanship" are deemed to be more important than fighting for effective public policy.

Want to see what effective public policy looks like? Check out what the Rudd government's done to avoid recession in Australia.

[DrToast]

20. Oh god, they've gotten to you, too! n/t

[Jennicut]

29. Its coming from economists, some in the administration, some in Congress and some Rethugs

Obama himself has not declared it yet.
I don't see how it could pass anyway...what Conservadems would vote for it a second time around?

[depakid]

36. "what Conservadems would vote for it a second time around?"

Depends how it's framed. Dean Baker's idea (below) of a This "pay for play" tax credit would be something that many would get behind- as it incorporates their favorite shibboleths.

[Jennicut]

40. LOL. Landrieu and Nelson won't even vote for cloture with the party

as stated just recently. It does not matter how its framed. Maybe they can be blackmailed though (Cheney probably rolled that way).

[depakid]

43. If it saves jobs in their districts- and it's framed that way

they'll have a hard time stamping their feet about a tax credit.

[DrToast]

19. Is Laura Tyson in on the grand conspiracy!?!

The UC Berkeley economics professor, a member of President Obama’s Economic Recovery Advisory Board, said in Singapore today that the $787-billion plan Congress passed in February "will have a positive effect, but the real economy is a sicker patient."

The plan turned out to be "a bit too small," she said.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/money_co/2009/07/laura-tyson-is-adding-her-voice-to-those-calling-for-more-economic-stimulus-spending--the-uc-berkeley-economics-professor.html

By the way, I'm not in favor of another stimulus, but your grand conspiracy theory is ridiculous.

A second stimulus is a legitimate debate right now. It's not some crazy conspiracy cooked up by a cabal of media elites hellbent on stopping health care reform. Good lord.

[FrenchieCat]

22. Why is a 2nd stimulus a legitimate debate right now?

considering that only 10% of the initial stimulus has been disbursed...and while we are right in the middle of a health care reform debate, in particular, the validity of a public option?

As for crazy conspiracies, please see Corporate media support of Clinton impeachers in 1998, GWBush support during recount 2000, all out nationalism in 2001, march to war in 2002, John Kerry all out assault in 2004, and Rev Wright/Bill Ayers threats our elections in 2008.....for good grief!

Crazy conspiracies have happened before, and they will happen again. And yes, the corporate media is nothing but a cabal hellbent on stopping health care reform. So you got something right....at least.

[DrToast]

24. This is why

This chart is from Obama's economic team prior to the stimulus. It assumed that without the stimulus, the unemployment rate would peak at 9% in 2010. Well, it's July of 2009 and we're at 9.5%.

[FrenchieCat]

26. Yes but.....

[Oregone]

48. So even with that chart, EVEN with it, it is WAY under predictions used to craft the stimulus

Thats why we are here:

[Oregone]

47. Ive posted this multiple time. Some people just DONT get it.

I am bewildered by the ignorance or naivety.

[masuki bance]

25. DeFazio, Tyson, Buffett, Rendell, Romer, Hoyer, etc.. all part of this nefarious cabal?

But Democrats like Rep. Peter DeFazio see a problem that could be a solution: “Stimulus II” — a major five-year investment in roads, transit and high-speed rail.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0709/24723_Page2.html


Here's Rendell testifying-

Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell (D) on Wednesday urged House members to consider another stimulus package just for infrastructure projects in order to produce more jobs.

Rendell, in testimony before the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, said that the $787 billion stimulus passed by Congress and signed by President Obama in February will work to boost the economy.

But Rendell, also testifying in his role as chairman of the National Governors Association, called for another economic recovery package full of infrastructure projects.

"I would like to see a second stimulus devoted solely to infrastructure," he said.

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/rendell-urges-second-stimulus-with-focus-on-jobs-2009-07-08.html

[FrenchieCat]

28. Yeah...he's a governor from a hard hit area,

so I see why he would want a 2nd round of stimulus.

He will simply have to relie on a health care plan to be the next stimulus.

Oh, and, I understand that some Democrats somewhere may have mentioned a 2nd stimulus....
but I would very much like to see their quotes in context in buying into who is pushing what.

What I do know is that pushing a 2nd stimulus now is follie, and so I can see why the media
are just very able and willing to push the idea....especially now.

[masuki bance]

30. So you can justify it for the hard hit areas? nt

[DrToast]

33. Map of hard hit area

[masuki bance]

37. Exactly. nt

[FrenchieCat]

35. Again......

criticize the original stimulus, advocate for a 2nd one, but understand what this will do to the debate in reference to the Health Care public option.

If you don't see the relationship between government administered programs and a conclusion that will be made of one and than used against the other, than I can't really help you.

So go ahead, and prop up Mr. Rendell and both of you can feel righteous like a mighty river and feel as good as you want about it.

[masuki bance]

38. Why doesn't it surprise me that again you find a way to

spin any criticism of Obama or his policies as a harbinger that the end times are upon us?

[FrenchieCat]

39. How does it surprise us that you are getting personal with me?

but have yet failed to convincingly debate why arguing for a 2nd round of stimulus at this very moment will be anything positive when relating it to the Health Care Public Option agenda debate that is the debate that we were having all up until yesterday when the 2nd stimulus issue all of the sudden became the latest rage.

[masuki bance]

41. My disagreement with you is the media conspiracy angle

You have framed this as if the media has created this, when it's quite obvious reading the quotes that there are honest calls for more help from leaders such as Buffett and Rendell. I haven't advocated that position, but I can't stand people going Alex Jones all the time.

[FrenchieCat]

44. The media has attempted to frame the debate at every turn thus far,

and have picked up on this particular meme
at this particular time and I believe that they are running with it.
Watching coverage, it would be hard to argue otherwise.

The 72% disapproval result of a 2nd round of stimulus
as indicated by the poll done by CNN
tells me that they feel they have a chance this time around
to have one issue affect another without the public realizing this
until too late.

I'm just here to forewarn, like I tend to do.
Do with it what you will.....

and discredit me and imply that I am a Obamabot if that works for you.

I've stated my opinion clearly, and I'm not backing away from it,
based on my experience and evidence pointing to a reasonable common sense analysis.

[Raine1967]

53. RE: Tyson

But on Tuesday, according to news reports, Laura Tyson, a member of the president's Economic Advisory Panel, said that while the current stimulus is of an appropriate size and includes "a significant amount of investment in long-term growth," another may be necessary to put the economy on the right track. Speaking at an economic forum in Singapore, Tyson said she was expressing her own views, not the administration's position.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/cq/20090707/pl_cq_politics/politics3159400_7

[grantcart]

23. This has been my fear all along

We may be reaching a real debt ceiling vis a vis international loaning countries (Germany, Japan and China already signalling concern) and a second stimulus could soak up the last remaining debt margin making health care reform die for lack of another huge bond offering.

[FrenchieCat]

32. Which is why a debate about a second stimulus makes no sense right now,

and only hurts us in a variety of ways.

[Jennicut]

27. We won't get a second stimulus right now, not if we want health care

What do people want....more money toward the economy or health care reform? We are not getting both. I think Obama understands that as do Rethugs. Not so sure Buffet, Rendell and others understand that. 2010 elections are getting close. I don't think its a conspiracy, just something the Rethugs think they can spin.
Of course, if they say its a failure, how much worse would we have been without it? We can't measure that until all the money is out there.
I am not sure what some on DU want....a second stimulus would wipe out health care reform and not all the money from the first is out yet.

[FrenchieCat]

31. Thanks for getting the point of this OP......

Priorities here are important. It is tempting, especially for those who never really cared for the original stimulus to begin with, and have not really much been enamored with what Obama has proposed and who is advisors are....to criticize this President and call him all wrong.....but at the end of the day, the real point is that there is no way we can advance health care reform by criticizing the original stimulus nor by pushing a 2nd one. This is a common sense analysis, not just my ranting, regardless if one believes in Media conspiracies or not.

[Jennicut]

34. I just think we cannot have both right now. I am a realist.

What Senators would vote for it, knowing they are up for reelection in 2010? Indies are balking at more deficit spending. We have to keep them to keep a Dem majority and to get more things passed that we want. Dems are not the greatest but we get absolutely nothing with Rethugs back in charge.

[Hutzpa]

42. The sad part is the enablers

who are helping them push this distorted premise.

This is the reason why I'm pissed at people here who keeps making suggestion
about not voting come next election, it's all part of their elaborate plan to
derail him in multiple ways.

It's not going to happen.

An excellent post as always Frenchie.....:thumbsup:

[Oregone]

45. The Sky is Falling. OH NOOOES! We CANT talk about guessing wrong. We can't discuss stimulus

Fear, fear, fear. If we talk about the facts and numbers, we will never get healthcare reform. Oh noes!!!!!

[FrenchieCat]

50. The point is specifically that the sky ain't falling,

although there are a few who act like it is.....and like to state the same facts as to why
over and over and over again.

[Oregone]

52. Yep, everything is right on target!

Right on target. Oh Noes! But we can't talk about it!!!! Fear!

[ProudDad]

49. Actually, when it comes to health care

it's not the pukes that are the problem...they're toothless...

It's the blue-dog dems who ALSO don't believe that health care should be a right nor that government can actually do anything other than build a big-fuckin' war machine to lord over the rest of the Earth to steal the dwindling resources they need for their big-fuckin' war machine...

[ProudDad]

51. And that industrial growth economy is DEAD - thank goodness!

http://www.postcarbon.org/look_bright_side

Hope it don't take everyone down with it...