People PUL-LEASE stop calling these people "PRO-LIFERS"

[LynneSin]

I find it difficult that anyone whose only concern is that fetus gets born as pro-life.

Do they support this endless war that is killing thousands of our soldiers and even more innocent Iraqis including children?

Do they support the death Penalty

Do they oppose giving every child born the basic right to live the American Dream which includes ensuring that all children have proper healthcare and a strong education.

They are NOT pro-life.

They are anti-choice.

Please use the right terms.

[goclark]

1. Excellent point ~ they are Anti - not Pro anything

The Rethugs were smart to use Pro and we should not play into their hands.

[LynneSin]

3. Well I've seen 3-4 threads about the 'pro-lifers'

and it's like we DUers have bought into their terminology. Just like when we called Dr Tiller an 'abortion doctor'. Tiller was a doctor and one of the things he happens to do was perform abortions. Why must we single out just the one thing of many that he does and call him that term. In that case two weeks ago I saw my Doctor, the one 'Pee in the cup to see if there is an infection' doctor

:crazy:

[Cha]

32. I got on one of those threads and

said.. 37. Only it's not "Pro life" ..it's
"Anti-Choice" because anything else and they're right there for the DEATH.

"Anti-Choice Hypocrites"..and sure they have a right to protest for their view.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

53. I'd call him a PRO-WOMAN doctor. nt

[supernova]

2. Forced-Birthers

is what I call them.

Because that's what it is. They have a pregnancy and birth fetish, not a concern for the health and well-being of infants and children.

[ensho]

18. kick

nt

[NewJeffCT]

4. Agree with you 100%, but

when I started calling people anti-choice on DU a few years back, I was told I shouldn't call "pro life" people that because it would be name-calling.

[LynneSin]

10. um.... you're kidding me

I'm kinda on the fence with some democrats. I mean if someone out there truly opposed all forms of death including abortion, war, death penalty AND wanted ensure our kids had health care and education, I'd almost let it slide. But even some of those folks I've seen or met - they still feel there should be provisions for when the mother's health is in jeopardy or rape/incest. But these folks protesting in DC against Sotomayer - they are anti-choice. Nuff said.

[NewJeffCT]

14. I think it was meant

that we shouldn't resort to name calling like Fox News calling people that are pro-choice "pro abortion" instead of pro choice

[KakistocracyHater]

31. I think choice sounds awful, call them anti-birth control instead

because that is what they are attacking, ALL forms of birth control they call abortion. Emotionally, I think 'choice' sounds like Henry sending Anne Bolyn to the gallows, he made that choice(or those around him); sounds really cold. They word & phrase things carefully to manipulate emotions, I want to correct those fake-feelings & I know TRUTH matters enough to be shouted everywhere.

[marybourg]

33. Since when is "choice" cold? Sounds warm & human to me.

But then, I don't listen to wing-nut propaganda.

[KakistocracyHater]

49. & thusly you MAY be shoving those wavering

it DOES sound cold-I CHOOSE abortion, instead of-I use bc pills. You don't see/feel that? Many people on the Right decide thru feelings, & the same can be said of those on the Left. I'm asking for language that feels fine for many people, not the choir, so to speak.

[marybourg]

78. Sorry. I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. nt.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

61. but that would preclude rape and incest victims

whose attackers rarely if ever use any form of birth control. And I've talked to people who think these victims should be forced to carry the product of crime to term. Sorry, but in my view, that's all that tissue is. If the victim sees it differently and chooses to go ahead with her pregnancy, then I support her. But I also support those who wish to have the pregnancy terminated--and should they ever find their attackers and do them in, I'd call it justifiable homicide.

[KakistocracyHater]

76. again I am NOT talking about real abortion, I agree with you about

rape, incest, etc. I am talking what the Right is falsely calling "abortion" like bc pills, diaphragms, nuvo rings-they call regular contra-ceptives abortion. I fully intend to peel away the people who are fooled by this blanket-term & don't yet realize the scam, the deforming of words which are threatening the health of every female, from the cradle to the grave, & even between.

[JohnnyRingo]

5. Not to mention their standards on "justifiable homicide"

Many "pro-lifers" maintain an arsenal with stockpiled ammunition.

[lamp_shade]

6. I know how you feel. It drives me CRAZY.

[LynneSin]

8. It's bad enough the republicans do it - why do we do what the republicans say

:grr:

[mzmolly]

7. BRAVO! They're anti-safe/legal and rare.

eom

[tomm2thumbs]

9. here here nicely put nt

[YOY]

11. Fucking A!

+1!

[central scrutinizer]

12. pro government interference

involving medical decisions between a woman and her doctor

[tularetom]

13. The last time some asshole announced to me that he was "pro life"

I responded "So you're opposed to the death penalty? Well, that's good I guess. And how about that war in Iraq? Lotsa lives being lost there. Glad to hear you oppose that too".

Didn't stop him from telling people he was pro life. But it did stop him from telling ME. Anything. So that worked out well.

[marshall]

40. That person would be following strict Catholic teaching

No abortion, no death penalty, no war. The Pope has made it pretty clear.

[zulchzulu]

15. Pro-Governmental Reproduction Choice Intrusion

Yes, anti-choice...

[Canuckistanian]

16. Pro-Forced Pregnancy

It's the fundie way - keeps uppity women "in their place".

[Orsino]

17. I have stopped calling them anti-abortion, too.

While true, it fails to distinguish them from pro-choicers, who presumably don't favor abortion as a pastime, either.

[LynneSin]

20. +1 on that comment

No one is truly 'pro-abortion'. My official stance is that is that pregnancy is a private matter and I shouldn't butt my head into the decisions made between a woman and her doctor.

[BOSSHOG]

21. Conservatives are in agreement

they think government should stay out of our lives unless it involves a vagina or a penis.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

63. Perhaps a better term for them is

Pro-government intrusion in your private life. If the argument is explained that way, wonder what conservatives would say?

[polmaven]

19. Spot ON, sister!

:thumbsup:

[uponit7771]

22. ..& they hate to be called anti-choice, for the left to keep repeating "pro life" is to feed Luntz

...talking points

[Wednesdays]

23. K&R

:kick:

[MyUserNameIsBroken]

24. I still like calling them

The Fetal Rights Brigade. It's subtly subversive.

[question everything]

25. They are anti woman right to privacy

Similarly, our side should not use the term "partial birth abortion."

We should not let them determine the rules of the debate, including the terms used.

[wisteria]

26. Yes, we really defeat our purpose when we give the opposition credit it this way.

They are actually anti-choice and anti-women.

[TokenQueer]

27. THANK you!

:thumbsup:

[pipi_k]

28. sometimes I forget and start to call them "Pro Life" but

then remember that they're nothing but Anti choice.

Then I call 'em as I see 'em.

[msanthrope]

29. "Abortion Rights Opponents" is what I heard Tweety use today.

I liked it.

Takes us out of the pro-anti spin....

[ElboRuum]

30. OK. How about this...

I call them pro-gettingofftellingotherpeoplewhattheefftodoandwheretoeffinggo-ers.

[ksoze]

34. Anti-choice

[cali]

35. I don't really give a shit what they're called. And I'm sick of the

scolding on this.

[cally]

36. YES!!!

They are anti-choice. They support putting women in jail for making choices consistent with their own moral values, medical needs, and religious beliefs. Anti-choicers support imposing their own morality and religion on others through the power of the state.

[themaguffin]

37. Healthcare, Education, Consumer Protection, and

many many other domestic, economic and foreign policies are matter of life. I could not agree with this thread more.

I always tell someone when the use the term pro-life that sorry no, pro-life mean pro-life and is much more significant than these partisans think.

[and-justice-for-all]

38. They are the Anit-Women and not Pro-Life...

Kind of hard to Pro-life and Pro-War...

[Th1onein]

39. There are some people that are truly pro-life.

I am one of them. And, yes, I am against abortion and I am anti-choice, when it comes to abortion. However, I don't think that all "pro-lifers" are against war, or the death penalty, or euthanasia, or for any of the things that you mention that support life.

There is a difference.

[Doctor_J]

41. a lot of dems are brainwashed by hate radio and cable "news"

they use the same talking points as the limbeciles. They will calim that they listen to hate radio as "opposition research", but in fact are subject to the brainwashing just the same.

[DatManFromNawlins]

42. It's pro- and anti- abortion rights

Pro-choice is just as much a bullshit term as pro-life.

We are speaking about a specific group of medical remedies which are classified as abortions.

I'm pro-abortion-rights.

And anti-bullshit. What is right needs no euphemisms.

[Boomerang Diddle]

43. Agreed!

n/t

[AlinPA]

44. Exactly. Thank you.

[Pool Hall Ace]

45. All they are really "pro" is fetus.

Once the child is born, they do not care about the child's rights.

Especially if that child grows up to be gay.

[mwooldri]

46. I still prefer anti women's rights. nt

[mwooldri]

47. If you want further proof that this women's right needs to be kept...

... then you need to listen to this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b008w3xq/Afternoon_Play_Be_My_Baby/

(sorry it's only going to be available until this coming Sunday, then gone)

The Afternoon Play: Be My Baby. This is a drama-documentary - both set in the 1960's and today, in the pre-legal abortion era, when women from poorer backgrounds would go somewhere, have their baby and be thrown back into the world. It also details in the drama about one young woman's attempt to abort her baby as well. This was a shocking enough play at the end of it, the Radio 4 announcer advised those who had issues about the play to call the station and discuss it with trained staff, to refer to if needs be to professional help locally.

It's a 45 minute long programme. Sorry it's no soundbite, but certainly a play with a very heavy duty message that I feel is valid to today's life.

[jgraz]

48. OK, but "sex-fearing, woman-hating, subliterate douchenozzle" is a real mouthful

:shrug:

[slackmaster]

50. Anti-choice is just as inaccurate as pro-life

The proper term is anti-abortion.

[WinkyDink]

82. Wrong. Then the opposite is "pro-abortion".

[colinmom71]

51. The funniest thing happened to me last week...

Somehow I wound up on a mailing list that an anti-abortion political group used for a mailing. I received a plea to donate to this group to lobby against the "Freedom of Choice Act". The card reads, "Stand for Life, Defend the Innocent"...

Hrmmm... I guess I'm not one of the innocent worthy of protection then. See, another pregnancy would endanger my life. But then, I'm a grown woman and not a cherubic infant so my life must somehow be of less worth for protection. So no, I do not see them as pro-life, just pro-fetal life at any cost.

[patriotvoice]

52. Pro-control is what they are. They're "for" the government telling you what you can & cannot do...

with your own body.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

54. A better label would be Anti-Woman

these people who put the presence of a mass of largely undifferentiated cells above the life of a living woman (or GIRL, since young girls are also frequent victims of rape, incest, manipulation and enslavement) would better be called Anti-Woman.

Rather than xtian subjection to abstracted dogmas that are blind to the realities of this world, I favor the Buddhist ideal to reduce suffering. Who suffers more? A mass of cells with no nervous system or a living woman?

Unfortunately, it seems to me that the fact of sexism is something so deeply embedded in our society that it can never be called out for what it is.

[get the red out]

58. +1

Completely anti-woman. They want women's sexuality strictly controlled.

[muddrunner17]

55. Well said!

[BlueJazz]

56. Yep...My Mother taught me many years ago that these Anti-Choice people are...

...really pro-sadness and are people who see the world in Black & White and never think things through.

She also used to say.."They just want the poor to have unwanted children as the Well-to-do can always hop on a plane and fly to a country that is pro-choice OR have their Family Doctor perform the operation on Little Mary"

She (again) also said: "I'll bet if you gave an IQ test to pro choice and anti choice people the pro choice folks would out-score the others by 20 points"

More like 30 points Mom :)

[get the red out]

57. They support torture too

There was a survey a few months ago that showed that very regular church goers were more inclined to support torture.

[Moral Compass]

59. Agreed - Stop letting them set the playing field

The language you use sets the playing field for the argument. By letting them alter the language you allow a profoundly negative movement, one which is really not for anything, but against many things--to change the initial perception of the listener.

They are not pro-life, but anti-sex. They are not pro-life, but anti-women's rights. They are not pro-life, but anti-contraception.

They are not even anti-abortion or pro-abortion avoidance. That is why they are against contraception. That is why they conflate the birth control pill and the morning after pill with abortion.

If they are pro anything, they are pro-vengeance and pro-retribution. They are for making the dirty sluts that have sex outside of marriage suffer and they are for their children suffering in poverty. They are for the removal of second chances. They are for stigma and punishment.

Call them the anti-sex, anti-contraception, anti-free choice, or the even the old anti-abortion movement. There is nothing pro-life about them.

<:hi:>

[mlevans]

75. How about "pro meddling"? Does that work for anybody?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

60. This is so true

And the thing that gets me is these same people applaud when a doctor is murdered. I've even heard one person say that once a woman is pregnant, by whatever means (even rape), their rights are gone, and the fetus's rights triumph everything. Interestingly enough, that same person told me that the Japanese children and babies who died in the atomic blasts at the end of WWII "deserved" to die because they supported their Emperor. So yeah, they are simply pro-fetus. And they sure aren't pro-life. Seems once that fetus is born it is somehow corrupted and it is not worthy of any support whatsoever.

[laylah]

62. I have called them

Anti-Choice since God/dess was a child. I concur with your message :thumbsup:

[pasto76]

64. absolutely! The civilian deaths in Iraq alone are outrageous!!

and they dont seem to care about that.

[undeterred]

65. There are many people who are against abortion,

against the death penalty, and against war.

[Ilovevermont]

66. I could not agree more -

Repeatedly we lose ground when we let others define the terms.
"Anti-abortion" is more truthful. We might also
begin to reject "anti-war" and stress that we are
pro peace. And labeling as environmentalists, a negative term
in the media, all those who would like a little clean water,
breathable air, and food that doesn't cause serious long range
illness has to be changed. How about "common sense
folks," the ones who are really pro life.

[ananda]

67. They are anti-choice forced-birhers!

nt

[The Doctor.]

68. Whenever I get the chance, I stop at one of their demonstrations and ask;

"Did you support the Iraq war?"

When they say 'no, I don't support any war.', I tell them I appreciate their integrity.

When they say that 'it had to be done' or something, I tell them they are not at all 'Pro-Life', but they are 'anti-choice'. If they argue, then I ask them how they can be 'pro-life' and 'pro-killing' at the same time. Usually, I just tell them they're hypocrites and leave.

[sakabatou]

69. As the late George Carlin said

"Pro-life is anti-woman!"

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/80fc8238cc/george-carlin-pro-life-is-antiwomen-from-classicstandupfan

[bongbong]

70. My name for the idiots

I call them "authoritarians" or "pro-government-control" people. Seeing those are two of their bete noires, calling them by a name reflecting their true hypocritical nature seems perfect.

[Leo The Cleo]

71. They certainly aren't pro-life. They are abhor-tionists!

they are anti-abortionists. These folks abhor life. They are "abhor-tionists." They advocate the taking of lives across various spectrums. One said that if black babies weren't born that crime would go down. They certainly have no regard for life after it gets here. They get down right nasty.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

72. I must admit I am sometimes guilty of this.....

I will try to do better.

[LynneSin]

74. That's because the Media sells us on "pro-life" and "pro-abortion"

we just have to fight back.

[florida08]

73. exactly

even more closely related to anti-social. They're pro-gun..pro-war..pro-torture..pro-murder(Dr. Tiller..he reaped what he sowed crap) anti-universal healthcare..anti-S-Chip..and anti-education..anti-jobs..ok you get the idea.

[Cali_Democrat]

77. You hit the nail on the head. n/t

[Raine]

79. I never call them anything but ANTI-choice nt

[lunatica]

80. They like to refer to themselves as anti-abortion which is much worse

[WinkyDink]

81. Always have used "anti-choice".

[slackmaster]

83. The problem with couching language is that eventually it can go too far - Example from NPR today

Someone was interviewing a representative of PETA.

The interviewer asked if people who bomb facilities where experiments are done on animals are morally superior to people who bomb "choice clinics". :crazy:

I believe the proper term is OB/Gyn clinics.