Health Debate on C-Span----for all who claim that debates are NOT public.

[vaberella]

Now there was a post on the Health debate not being on C-Span, yet today I saw no post of it as an announcement, and since I just woke up from a quick nap, I turn on C-Span and that is what I'm seeing. It's a rather nasty debate as well.

It's called "Senate HELP Cmte. Continues Work on Health Care legislation" on Senate Health Policy. What's also interesting, currently the debate is on the addition or exclusion of Abortion within the health bill. A Dem from Utah Supports an amendment to deny WOMEN abortion services through something called the Hatch Amendment, and Dodd doesn't. <----Keep in mind I'm a bit groggy from the nap but I had to post this news here.

The Amendment has been failed as well. The discussion was basically without the Hatch Amendment federal tax dollars could be used to preform an abortion. Casey supported this amendment as well. The new amendment deals with something called a conscious amendment--which protects workers not to participate, if they choose, in an abortion. Hide amendment included.

I'm a bit tired from people making claims and based on a reporter when I personally has seen most of these Health debates and meetings. Here is another one for those who are interested...link below---Oh and I'm sure they'll be discussing it tonight as a recap.

The topic is moving fast, so it's hard to keep up when groggy.

http://www.c-span.org/Watch/Media/2009/07/13/HP/R/20700/Senate+HELP+Cmte+Continues+Work+on+Health+Care+legislation.aspx

Edited: To correct that it was Casey not Bayh. Oh the conscious amendment (since there are laws on the books that support the right of the worker) has been rejected.

Next Amendment is amendment 277 (similar to Coburn 270). This amendment denies abortions full stop and it has full on language. It is similar to the Hide Plan, however with support for Family Planning then they support abortion. So this is to deny that. Dodd-Kennedy are against it.


Update: Brought up by Sanders for Amendment 203 and it talks about Fraud committed FROM Private insurance. It provides payment through gateway plan and upto 6x payment of claims. He is providing examples---Phizer defrauded medicaid program, Johnson & Johnson in Texas---pending for giving money to public officials, Glaxo paid fees for medicaid , Sanofi Aventis by misrepresenting prices of drugs for medicaid. He goes into private insurers---United Health manipulating users. Aetna settled, Cigna settled, all medicare/medicaid fraud. Tenent (?) over billing of medicare/medicaid.

Repubs are supporting it. It passed unanimously. 23 Ayes and 0 Nays. A major amendment.

I Love Sanders

[flpoljunkie]

1. Thanks!

[vaberella]

2. De Nada...I didn't watch from the beginning. If it started at 2 I missed 15 minutes. n/t

[napi21]

4. Cspan also puts the hearings up on video later. I'm not sure if it will be up tonight or not

until tomorrow, but I watched all the ones there that I missed during the day.

[vaberella]

6. Yes they do. I've watched them later. It's just after a time they are not maintained. n/t

[RaleighNCDUer]

3. If no one is talking about single-payer, then there is NO honest

public debate.

This is nothing but a show trial before we are executed.

[vaberella]

5. Then I find your post worthless and a joke. You are not a concious voter.

Listen, this is a debate on what is involved with a public option. This would be included in a single payer plan as well, this issue would be heavily debated and discussed----if abortion would be included in such a plan. There are many Dems who are Pro-Life or support the fetus and would not support it on a single payer plan. So for you, to marginalize, and limit the importance of this debate out of hand is absolutely ridiculous and disgusting. You are very disappointing in your statement to me.

[girl gone mad]

7. Why so rude?

That post didn't warrant your over the top response.

[vaberella]

8. Did you not read the post? My statement was far from over the top.

The poster basically stated that since there is no single payer and this is a discussion on the public option and just another health care it DOESN'T MATTER. That annoys the hell out of me. You may want something else. But this is a health debate, this is about our health and what is decided upon for the nations health. So this still affects us but because it doesn't have something s/he wants it's not worth the time. :WTF: and that is definitely the impression the poster is giving.

*A show trial before execution? :WTF: * If there was single payer this would be a fundamental aspect of the discussion.

[Cleita]

9. I hope with this debate that the true intent of the special interests, profit,

will come to the forefront and maybe single payer universal health care will be seen as the best option after all. Just keeping my fingers crossed.

[vaberella]

10. Actually that is not the forefront of the disucssion. It seems abortion takes the key role.

Abortion was debated on this forum yesterday. So it's up for discussion currently and not many people are watching.

This is definitely a public option debate and refining. The private insurance people are barely discussed. This is how far we take the public option and what is going to be excluded if any and what will be added. It seems by default that the public option will protect those who are seeking abortion (meaning funding for Family Planning offices and what not) however there seems to be that there will be language to protect extenuating circumstances.

Update: Kennedy plan adopted and moving onto Amendment 203. Brought up from Sanders and deals with fraud.

[Cleita]

11. So I hope that our pols don't let the right frame women's health as

abortion rights. If they allow them to corner them into that discussion, any hope of health care reform is lost. I can't watch right now because I'm at work.

[vaberella]

19. Oh okay. I'm trying to update the mandates.

The right has no control. Check my recent update the right and left agreed (including McCain) unanimously to basically smack the private insurance and Big Pharma from fucking the people through medicaid/medicare and even health care provider.

[slipslidingaway]

16. Agreed n/t

[Kalyke]

12. It's not to deny "people" abortion services... it's to deny WOMEN

reproductive services.

If the "people" in question included men, abortion would be a God-given right.

Sorry - just had to point out that, while women are "people," not all "people" are women.

:hi:

[vaberella]

14. Thank you...I'll make it clear. You're 100% correct. n/t

[Kalyke]

15. Thanks.

I'm just tired of cranky old white men trying to control my uterus.

Phewwwwwwwww.

;)

[vaberella]

18. Hah. You don't to see this panel.

They dominate and that's exactly what they're doing. But some of them seem to have moms, wives, sisters, and daughters, which is a good thing since anything could happen and one would never know what happens in the future.

[slipslidingaway]

13. There was no real or public debate on different health care

systems, I think that has been the complaint.

What they have been debating recently are the amendments to a particular piece of legislation, that is far from allowing all sides of any issue to come to the table and discuss the big picture of health care, (adding in edit) which P. Obama said he would do during the campaign. His personal preference was for the public option, but said all sides would be allowed into the discussion.

That was not allowed to happen and again, as far as I know, has been the major complaint.


"Senate HELP Cmte. Continues Work on Health Care legislation
LIVE Video

The Senate HELP Cmte. is continuing it's markup of health care legislation. Senator Christopher Dodd (D-CT), who is chairing the mark up in the absence of Chairman Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-MA), announced that he hopes to finish the mark up on Tuesday."

[vaberella]

17. There actually has been.

If you watch any of the discussions with Sebelius and various other claims there has been that debate. I have argued otherwise. I've seen the debates. Many of the Dems do support single payer and have publicly discussed it and debated it. Currently the focus is on the public option and maintaining elements of single payer.

And actually if you read the post I saw, the post said there was no debate on the health care reform. Not specifying on health care systems.

Plus this is the plan pushed by President Obama, so I would assume those who supported CANDIDATE Obama then they would support President Obama's plan of a public option since that's what he talked about for the last 2 years. He did not push the single payer as a candidate.

[slipslidingaway]

20. I disagree, the WH Summit was the big kick off meeting for health care reform

but it excluded ideas from the beginning and set the tone for discussions in Congress.

At the last minute, after calls to the WH and a planned protest by doctors, one advocate was allowed to attend. You can check the WH site and see that his name is not even included in the discussion group that he was finally allowed to attend.

And then they were excluded from almost all of the Congressional debates as well, the Finance Committee then voted to approve three closed door sessions to discuss HC.

Not sure why people do not remember what happening from the beginning in March, hopefully you will understand why some people say there has been no real debate. Most sessions have been open...some have been closed.

:shrug:

"Single payer advocates apparently being excluded from health care discussions. (White House summit)

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/3694

Posted by madfloridian in General Discussion
Mon Mar 02nd 2009, 03:22 PM

President Obama Must Include Single-Payer Advocates In National Health Care Debate

The president wants this process to be open and transparent, with the goal of achieving universal coverage. However, groups representing physicians, nurses, and consumers who advocate for a single-payer system of national health insurance have thus far been excluded from the (White house) summit..."


If you are talking about the post above, he stated there has been no honest public debate and mentions single-payer, which is a different HC system.

"If no one is talking about single-payer, then there is NO honest public debate..."

I know some people try and equate the public option with single-payer, not for profit HC, but they are not the same.

[vaberella]

21. You are aware that the article you posted and bolded was before the WH Health Summit right?

The entire first 2 hours was dedicated to talking about single payer. But that wasn't the only time. Did you see any of the talks with Sebelius interviews. There were also other many debates in the health section. I'm not basing my point only on the WH Health Summit.

[slipslidingaway]

22. Of course I am aware, that is why I posted it, they were not being

included in the planned, future event!

I'm not basing my point only on the WH summit which is why I mentioned the Congressional hearings as well, but the WH summit did set the tone for future discussions IMHO. Policy is set from the top.

If we wind up with some weak option maybe some people will believe the opening move played a role....or we could just blame the Republicans.

:(


Posted on February 27, 2009

President Obama Must Include Single-Payer Advocates In National Health Care Debate

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2009/february/president_obama_must.php

"...The Clinton task force on health reform made a similar mistake of excluding the voices of those who support a single-payer system, and the result was a complicated, inadequate reform proposal that catered to the interests of insurance companies and failed to garner public support. At a time when public support for single-payer is greater than ever - more than 60 percent in recent polls - we urge President Obama not to make the same mistake. He must include single-payer advocates in the health care summit next week."


Published on Tuesday, March 3, 2009 by Corporate Crime Reporter
Obama to Single Payer Advocates: Drop Dead

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/03/03-15


Single Payer Advocates Nearly Shut Out of Obama Health Forum
http://www.blackagendareport.com/?q=content/single-payer-advocates-nearly-shut-out-obama-health-forum


"The entire first 2 hours was dedicated to talking about single payer."

I find it hard to believe that the first 2 hours was dedicated to talking about single-payer and I would need to check the video to be sure, but The WH Live Blog paints a different picture.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/09/03/05/Live-blogging-the-White-House-Forum-on-Health-Reform/

"1:00: The media is filing in to the East Room as we close in on the start of the Forum on Health Reform. Guests are just beginning to arrive in the Grand Foyer, where they are receiving a copy of the Report on Health Care Community Discussions being presented to the President this afternoon. More on the contents of the report soon!

1:07: In the last ten minutes, the Grand Foyer has filled with members of Congress, health care experts and physicians, business owners, insurers, and everyday Americans - all with a stake in the health reform effort. The energy is building as guests make their way into the East Room.

1:09: The President just entered the room joined by Policy Director Melody Barnes, and Travis Ulerick, a firefighter and EMT who held a community discussion in his hometown of Dublin, Indiana.



1:15: Travis Ulerick tells the assembled group that the time is now to reform our health system. He thanks President Obama for challenging him to get involved - he held a discussion in his community in January that grappled with the problems in our health system, and submitted suggestions for reforming the system to the President's health care team. Travis was one of over 30,000 Americans who held community discussions on health care over the holidays.



1:20: President Obama greets the packed house, saying "This was the hottest ticket in town." The President's first address at the Forum is unambiguous that we cannot delay health reform: "Our goal will be to enact comprehensive health reform by the end of this year."

1:25: Before the group heads to breakout discussion sessions on the subject, the President says he believes this time around the effort to reform the health care system is different: "this time the call for reform is coming from the bottom up."

1:30: The President concludes his first address to the forum guests, telling everyone to get to work: "this time there is no debate about whether all Americans should have quality, affordable health care - the only question is how?"



Breakout Sessions

2:07: Now I'm sitting in a breakout session in the Executive Office building."

[slipslidingaway]

23. Half of the WH summit "was dedicated to talking about single payer."

???

When you search the report issued by the WH for...single-payer, not for profit, HR676, Medicare for All....there are zero matches.

"President Obama brought together leaders with diverse views at the White House Forum on Health Reform. The White House issued a report highlighting the productive discussions from the event."

http://www.healthreform.gov/reports/index.html#whitehouse


White House Forum on Health Reform
Report issued March 30, 2009

http://www.whitehouse.gov/assets/documents/White_House_Forum_on_Health_Reform_Report.pdf

[boppers]

24. K&R.

Repeating a lie should not make it true.