Healthcare Reform or Screw Job?

[DemocracyInaction]

I 'betcha' (as Sarah the Dim would say)that the following three things are going to be the final product of this abortion of a healthcare bill that, unfortunately, our Blue Dogs (aka Republican wanna-be's)will end up serving to the American people:

1. The uninsured will finally have insurance...that won't be worth the goddamn paper it's written on. It will keep them out of the expensive emergency room, BUT will also keep them out of most doctor's offices because will not pay enough to docs to service them.

2. The insurance companies will proudly announce that they are answering the call of Obama to "bring down healthcare costs". Translation: they will cut the benefits of all with health insurance to the bone and still keep screwing them up the ass with ever rising premiums. (You will pay more for less---but don't worry, you probably won't live too long).

3. To the delight of the Repubs, this will be the open door to slash Medicare and Medicaid. Thus, the elderly will have to pay such a terrible premium for companion insurance that only the rich will survive.

Ohhhhh....did I mention #4?: In 2010 (or before), we Dems will be kissing our sweet asses goodbye and the Republicans will have achieved all their goals and the heath insurance industry will live and reign forever and ever...AMEN.

[PretzelWarrior]

1. did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed, Eyor?

that is some pessimistic chit right there, bro.

[DemocracyInaction]

2. Pretzel--have you been watching...

...these Dem clowns on the Hill who are bending over backwards to scuttle reform AND kneecap Obama (and their stupid selves) at the same time?--you know, the ones who would rather die than be seen as "progressive" or "liberal"? We will get an abortion of a reform bill very favorable to the insurance companies or we will get nothing. Nothing is beginning to sound like the better option.............. I've watched this joke being kicked around the Hill for a good share of my 60-some years and there is no way WE THE PEOPLE are going win. But you can bet the insurance companies will end up delighted because we can't even get the Dems to stand together.

[Oregone]

5. Is there a historic example of an issue that would of challenge an entrench special interest so much

(such entrenchment instantly removes single-payer from being considered).


Are there any examples of the people winning a battle against giants this large? Maybe the Tobacco legislation (but that still left those companies in play)?

[Oregone]

3. You are probably more pessemistic than I on this

:)

I can't imagine its not going to make personal expenses, on average, cost less than currently.

On the other hand, it will not deliver affordable & accessible health care universally to all. It just wont. Anyone who believes otherwise is in La La Land. Will it be engineered to do that after X number of years, and suceed the entire way? Who knows. Ill guarantee you people will still suffer in the meantime.

Ill be interested to see if the average out-of-pocket expenses are down in a couple of years (or private insurance profits for that matter). Id also be interested to see if personal bankruptcies of insured people go down significantly in that time.

[RBInMaine]

35. Public option will either shock the insurance co's into reducing rates or drive them out of business

and then public option will morph to near-medicare for all. The goal: support Obama and get the public option !!

[vaberella]

4. Coburn the Republican is making some strong arguments...however it's a dirty deal.

He cares nothing about the patients and more about the workers. So we get shafted for more money to the care givers. Don't get me wrong, doctors need to get paid, but this is unfair to us.

[Jakes Progress]

6. In the back of our minds,

I think most of us who have watched politics for a while feel the same way. You get tired of getting your hopes up. You get tired of watching young people's enthusiasm sapped by the bastards who beg for our vote and then screw us over. We way past shame on them. It's happened so many times that it's shame on us now. Big time.

(This thread got un-rec'ed? Who is in favor of giving in to the insurance industry. Did the "gang" just unrec because of who posted? Was it because some member of the purity league thought it was anit-Obama? I would like to see a real reason for un-rec. Surely there must have been some cabal of terrorists controlling the Greatest page that made this absurd and very devisive procedure a part of the DU experience.)

[DemocracyInaction]

7. Jake---what's up?

I haven't posted for months and saw all this un-rec, rec, thing a ma jig fighting going on. Man, this doesn't seem ummmmm too "democratic" as in "democratic underground". It would be nice to see the board fighting over important things. It has too often gotten bogged down in "teenager" territory brawls..if you know what I mean!!!

[Jakes Progress]

10. I do. I do know what you mean.

Used to teach high school, so I know it when I see it.

[asteroid2003QQ47]

8. GENOCIDE of The People, by The People, For (2 or 3% of) The People!

I posted this in another thread earlier and it attracted no attention. Why wait fifty or a hundred years for the historians to correctly label what presently passes for Uncle Sam's health care plan
as GENOCIDAL!
If we cannot call it by it's proper name today, how can we ever hope to defeat it?

It is GENOCIDE!
---------------

It's estimated that 137,000 Americans have died between 2002 & 2006 because of lack of health insurance.

http://www.urban.org/UploadedPDF/411588_uninsured_dying.pdf



In February of this year, TPM estimated that 2,220 people had died since Obama took office and because of lack of health insurance.

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/star_mason/2009/02/2220-americans-have-died-becau.php
(Thank you for these tpsbmam)

The information presented in this post explains the basic estimate I use. That estimate currently is 22,000 Americans dying from lack of health insurance per year. Divided by 365 days of the year, the number is 60 Americans per day.
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/star_mason/2009/02/number-of-americans-dying-each.php

*----*----*----*----*----*----*----*----*----*

*----*----*----*----*----*----*----*----*----*

*----*----*----*----*----*----*----*----*----*

*----*----*----*----*----*----*----*----*----*

*----*----*----*----*----*----*----*----*----*

*----*----*----*----*----*----*----*----*----*
= SIXTY DEAD AMERICANS PER DAY!

X 365= TWENTYTWO THOUSAND DEAD AMERICANS PER YEAR!

22 Thou a YEAR but don't you dare call it GENOCIDE!

(If it's not GENOCIDE, what the fuck is it?)

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It is a treadmill, squirrel-trap culture--drugged and frenzied with the hasheesh of industrial servitude and material luxury.
--H.P. Lovecraft

[DemocracyInaction]

13. asteroid--I fear it's going to get worse

Mark my word that the health insurance industry will find a way to twist "reform" to further line their pockets and further deny payments. I will bet you that 10 years from now, those who are still breathing will look back and pine for the crap we have today. The goal is to play on your fears so you will pay any price for healthcare and then flush you anyway. I believe their answer to an aging population will be to try to nicely "exterminate" people but not be so insensitive as to use "ovens" (the ovens would be kinder).

[asteroid2003QQ47]

18. In a few hours this--

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6063966
went to the center of Page 2 with 2 Replies, <0 Recs and only 54 Views thus confirming what I have long suspected. That being, the majority here are the currant children of Hamelin happily trailing a Pied Piper into the abyss.
---------------------------------------------------

“There is still a lot of hard work that we as a country need to do. They can’t look to any one individual, whether it’s Barack or it’s the next new hope that’s going to appear to be that savior. And I would just hate for people to sort of see this potential and think: Oh, now I can rest easy because Barack Obama is going to fix things. It doesn’t work that way.”
--Michelle Obama

[DevonRex]

9. I guess we should all just give up now since we're doomed.

:sarcasm:

[dionysus]

14. you don't suppose anyone on DU engages in vast exaggeration do you?

i mean i can't believe that would ever happen here. no siree..
:rofl:

[asteroid2003QQ47]

15. I suppose history will record the majority here at DU as enablers of...

the greedy, GENOCIDAL, sociopathic PTB!

[dionysus]

17. oh yes, little eichman's complicit in GENOCIDE!!1!!1!!!

:rofl:

[asteroid2003QQ47]

19. Were all your mother's children born with their cord around their neck, kid? n/t

[PurityOfEssence]

11. We've hit the iceberg, and we're apologetically asking for votes for a dehumidifier

The system doesn't work, and any adjustment to it will cause shrieks of outrage from the reactionaries, yet we timidly ask for slight adjustments to the godawful murderous profiteering.

They hate us anyway; we might as well fight for something that will work.

This is lost on this administration; it's Clintonian enabling writ large, and for all the attempts made to please the trogs, they'll never be happy. There's no reason to even try.

There is, unfortunately, a bigger problem: the administration is corporatist to the marrow. Whether this is just the calculated politicking of habitual maneuverers or whether they actually believe that privatized free-marketeering is necessary is little more than an academic question; the result is the same.

[asteroid2003QQ47]

12. Instead of timidly groveling for "slight adjustments" put those GENOCIDAL fuckers...

on the defensive. Force them to defend GENOCIDE for that's exactly what it is
and history will one day record it as such!

[ibegurpard]

32. my reaction precisely

I was in complete agreement with my right-wing friend at work today about this...for completely different reasons.
It doesn't even come CLOSE to going far enough.

[DefenseLawyer]

16. 1-800-SAFE-HEALTHCARE

We keep you legal for less!

[asteroid2003QQ47]

20. Reform or Screw Job? Medicare cuts="Cost Savings"

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/14/house-democrats-to-unveil-health-care-bill/?hp

[SpartanDem]

21. The cuts aren't benefit cuts

You can read more about the type cuts they're talking about

Reduce subsidies to hospitals for treating the uninsured as coverage increases. Instead of paying hospitals to treat patients without health insurance, we should give people coverage so that they have insurance to begin with. As health reform phases in, the number of uninsured will go down, and we would be able to reduce payments to hospitals for treating those previously uncovered. This would be done by establishing a new mandatory mechanism to better target payments to hospitals for unreimbursed care remaining after coverage increases. Beginning in FY 2013, payments would be gradually phased down so that by 2019, funding would equal 25 percent of Medicare/Medicaid Disproportionate Share Hospitals (DSH) funding in 2013, and updated by inflation.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/MedicareFactSheetFinal/

[asteroid2003QQ47]

22. Thanks for the response

I'll have a look but presently see meaningful reform very unlikely.

[earth mom]

23. Screw Job. The medical industry owns Congress-don't forget it.

:puke:

[dflprincess]

24. The insurance industry and big pharma own Congress

those who truly care about medicine do not. Note that Physicians for a National Health Program and other single payer advocates don't get a whole lot of attention.

[ChiciB1]

25. All The Movers & Shakers In This Country OWN CONGRESS! Forget About

"we the people!" Folks, maybe getting worked up about the "name" they put on this thing is the ONLY thing that's applicable!

I always try to remember that "thingey" about THE FINE PRINT!!!!

[smoochpooch]

26. Screwjob. I was just thinking tonight that threats are the only thing that will motivate Congress.

Here's the plan: if you are working against real healthcare reform, Springsteen and Dave Matthews will do a show (or two) and donate all proceeds to your primary opponent. I bet plenty of artists would agree, and the money would add up quick. Isn't it sad that that's the only was to get people to do the right thing?

[ipaint]

27. Anything short of single payer is a screwjob

BILL MOYERS: Sid, you've been watching this and involved in this since 1971. What happens if they pass comprehensive health reform that is really just more of the same in disguise? What happens to health care after that?

DR. SIDNEY WOLFE: Well, the country, whether it's the employers who have to pay for it, or the patients who are paying for it, is going to go bankrupt much more quickly. It is not economically feasible to pass anything other than a single-payer, government collecting the money and paying the bills, and provide health care. It's never been done in any country. Taiwan, of all places, said, we don't like the fact that 40 percent of our people are uninsured. They passed, essentially, single-payer plan and within a few years 90-95 percent of the people were covered.

So, we have lots of models to draw on. Learn something from Canada, learn something from Taiwan, from a number of other places. It's inexcusable that we do anything but that. Anything that passes is not going to work. I guarantee that, 100 percent. And David will agree with me.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/05222009/transcript2.html

Whatever contorted, impossibly detailed and confusing public option is passed it will be a insurance industry purchased bill. It's guaranteed failure will destroy any public support for government paid health insurance. Or government run anything for that matter.

[SpartanDem]

28. You better tell the Belgians , the Swiss, the Dutch

and other coutures that have similar systems they don't have real health care because it's not single payer.

[ipaint]

29. Your missing a key difference

In the case of the Belgians and the Swiss the insurance companies are required to be non-profit and are heavily regulated. In the case of the Dutch for profit insurers can participate but they are very heavily regulated and must compete with non profits on a level playing field.

[SpartanDem]

30. How is the current legislation lacking?

It has the two major element you these system open enrollment and minimum benefits

[brentspeak]

31. $5,000 deductable on top of basic coverage = "screw job"

As another DUer put, the lobbyists won.

[RBInMaine]

33. If public option is so bad, why are the PUKES lined up against it? It will be BETTER than what we

have now. Please try to be positive and support this excellent new president.

[ibegurpard]

34. If you've ever worked in politics

you know that in order to get something passed you can live with, you need to offer up some token opposition to it.

[RBInMaine]

36. I wish we could get single payer now, but we can't. Public option plus other meaningful reforms such

as subsidies, killing pre-existing condition exceptions, creative wellness programs, etc. is the best we can hope for right now. Still, a big improvement over the status quo. And the PUKES will never go along because they are forever indebted to the insurance lobby. So, the goal must be to get the mods onboard under threat of primary challenges and constituent pressure, and say SCREW YOU to the PUKES who will screw themselves by saying no to what 70% of the public wants.

[asteroid2003QQ47]

37. Slowing down the GENOCIDE may be good enough for you,...

it is most assuredly NOT good enough for me!
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The lesser of two evils is evil.
- Seymour Leon

[RBInMaine]

38. You can either bitch incessently to no avail, or get SOMETHING done. Kindly face reality.