I don't give a shit about John Edwards' personal life and I never did. I disliked him

[cali]

for his hypocrisy. He worked for a slimy hedgefund and he invested a huge amount of money in it. He made money off the backs of Katrina victims through Fortress. he built and obscene energy guzzling McMansion while preaching to us about conservation. He was one of the biggest dem cheerleaders for the IWR. He voted twice for dumping nuclear waste at Yucca Mtn. He voted for a shit bankruptcy law. He shuttered his scholarship program when he dropped out. He lambasted Howard Dean over healthcare in 2003 and 2004- from the RIGHT.

He's a sleazy fucking asshole phony who USED the poor.

I said so at the time. And I say so now. He wants to lie to his wife and us about fucking some groupie while his wife has terminal cancer, that's disgusting, but it's his goddamn business- well, except for the fact that he was arrogantly stupid to think he could get away with it.

[Barrymores Ghost]

1. We gonna need a lot of butter here.

:popcorn:

[cali]

3. too bad we can't see the unrecs. I bet this thread gets more of them

than any other thread has since the inception of that function. And frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.

[CTyankee]

32. I am so ashamed to say that I fell for his shtick and supported him early on.

I also defended him when the first photos came out about the woman and the baby.

But, Cali, you hit the nail on the head, you really did! I can't believe that I was so blind to his obvious narcissism. WEll, I guess I can in retrospect since I thought what I liked was the way he and Elizabeth worked through her cancer together and how nice a couple they seemed.

I'm not devastated but I am chastened for all of my blind trusting of him and his campaign. He was not what he said he was. In fact, he was the opposite.

Sadder but wiser, that's me...

[denem]

57. There no shame in being moved by a very accomplished trail lawyer.

That's what they do for a living. Move people by connecting with what they want to hear. It's hard to comprehend that someone who speaks to your strongest, most immediate feelings doesn't feel them too.

[roguevalley]

15. his patriot act biz still stings me.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

48. With a Cali post, butter is usually required n/t

[alcibiades_mystery]

2. Yup

:thumbsup:

He was also useless and probably a major drag on the Kerry ticket. Cheney made him look like a schoolboy in the debate. Cost Kerry a percentage point at least.

[PresidentObama]

11. Revisionist history n/t

[alcibiades_mystery]

18. Nope

[karynnj]

42. Not really

It may be too drastic because a VP usually as little impact. With Edwards, his debate was neither good or bad, which was a disappointment for me because he was over hyped in advance for that due to his history as a lawyer. He also did not create any major crises. (His comments on Christopher Reeves verged on creepy, but nothing like the constant strange things Palin did.)

The downside is more versus what could have been. From the convention speech on, Edwards seemed like a paler, less enthusiastic version of who he was in the primaries. I watched 2 of his campaign appearances on CSPAN - identical down to facial jestures - changing only in small ways due to the crowds. They were not bad, they just lacked enthusiasm. There also was the fact that he refused to ever defend Senator Kerry. It was not just on the SBVT attacks, but on other attacks.

The time I was most disappointed was when he went to WV after the REPUBLICAN PARTY, not an independent group, had fliers speaking of Kerry as one who would take their Bibles away. Think of Edwards' background - Southern Baptist, family man, person used to speaking to juries. This was a time when he could have chucked his speech - spoke of his own religion, then spoke of the fact that Kerry does go to church on Sundays. He could have used all his charm and eloquence to make an Obama like speech to say that the Democratic party respects all religions (and no religion) and that the Republicans should be ashamed of themselves. Instead he did nothing.

Now, I know there was revisionist history - out of Edwards' mouth - that he did want to defend Kerry. But, I believe Shrum and the anonymous Kerry aides who said he didn't even after telling Kerry he would. My guess - in August 2004, Edwards felt they would lose and he feared that defending Kerry personally could hurt him in 2008 - so he brushed his hair and smiled, and went out and did the stops he was asked to do.

I don't know if another VP would have been better. All would have been better defending Kerry. Many would have been better agaisnt Dick Cheney. But, the media really wanted Edwards. I rewatched a few of the early joint interviews, because they were linked to some Edwards' articles this year. Every one asked Kerry things like whether he thought Edwards would add the energy and charisma needed - this after Democrats voted 3 to 1 for Kerry over Edwards. The story had he picked Gephardt or Durbin would have been that he was too vain to pick the supposedly charismatic Edwards. There likely would have been no gain from the VP selection and likely a dip.

[gauguin57]

54. O/T, but that's a very cute picture of John Kerry and Mama T.

I'm going to add it to my collection of cute photos of famous Democratic couples.

[PresidentObama]

59. Please do. They're a beautiful couple, eh? :)

[snake in the grass]

34. As much as his heart may be in the right place...

...Kerry, too, was a drag on his campaign.

[alcibiades_mystery]

36. I agree..Kerry lost the election

He did better than should have been expected, contrary to media claims. He was a Massachusetts senator vying with a sitting President "during wartime." He should have lost by 6-8%. That he didn't shows that the general disaffection with Bush went further back then Katrina in a way the media often fails to acknowledge.

[snake in the grass]

40. He probably won it, considering the b.s. that went down in Ohio...

...but Kerry chose not to fight. This became evident at the convention, and I don't mean fight like the GOPlers. I mean he should have pounded the message hard about how badly W. fucked up. He didn't, instead bringing a knife to a gun fight.

Sigh.

[karynnj]

44. Kerry's speech at the convention was excellent, his deates were excellent

and his rallies were FAR more enthusiastic than Edwards' were.

The drag on Kerry's campaign was the coverage of it. You would not know from the cable or network news that he broke records on attendance all over the country. He was also hurt by backstabbing by the snakes in the grass who joined his campaign before the general election. A good person does not go to media friends criticizing the campaign while it is going on as many Clinton aligned people did.

[FrenchieCat]

4. See, on this one, Cali speaks for me!

The guy just never hit the right notes with me.

I know he's apologized for everything (and I mean everything) after-the-fact,
but after so many times, apologies get old and stale.

[MichiganVote]

5. Well said.

[PresidentObama]

6. What's the point of this thread?

So you can feed your ego because you were 'right' about him?

Just because you've been trashing him for years doesn't mean you have to launch a thread about how right you were.

John Edwards career is over. Move on. Find a new target in the Democratic Party to trash.

[denem]

58. The point of this thread is getting a yea or nay

Rec/Unrec. Pretty obvious. It's also pretty appalling that people here are prepared (anonymously) to play apologists for a borderline sociopath.

[elehhhhna]

7. he gave me the creeps from day 1. HATE to say so, but it's true.

he's a slimy pretttyboy. Any man who's that pretty and colors his hair at his age gives me the willies.

[Lasher]

8. Actually his affair wasn't just his business.

He was having the affair while campaigning in the primaries. If he had won the Democratic nomination it is likely Republicans would have found out. Then it would have been McSame and Caribou Barbie in the White House, IMO. I don't think I'll ever forgive him for gambling with our future so recklessly.

[mitchum]

22. That's the reason I am disgusted with him

[Arugula Latte]

52. That's what infuriated me, too. How dare he risk the presidency like that?

The country could not have survived another Republican presidency -- My gawd, especially with the McCain-Palin Clown Show. What a deluded narcissist to put himself out there for the nomination!

edited to say: I was an Edwards supporter for awhile because I believed he did care about addressing poverty. Oy vey.

[Lasher]

53. I've tried to forgive him for that.

Then I think about Sarah Palin with the launch codes and I'm as disgusted with him as ever.

[mzmolly]

9. What'd I miss?

:popcorn:

[dionysus]

10. this one will be good.

:popcorn:

[earth mom]

12. UNWRECK.

And happy to kick this the hell off the greatest page with MY vote. :evilgrin:

[zulchzulu]

13. Why are we commenting about Edwards...

I thought he was toast a long time ago. I never liked him very much in 2004 and 2008. It actually came as no surprise to me that he was cheating on his wife since I think he was striking back at her for essentially making him run for President.

The story about how Kerry had heard the same story from Edwards about his son's loss before and Edwards tried to say he never shared that story with anyone was enough of a clue that Edwards was not very trustworthy.

But, that said, I thought he was gone in the news. Is he back?

[question everything]

14. Just to point out

first, Al Gore, too built "an obscene energy guzzling McMansion while preaching to us about conservation."

Second - what are we supposed to do with nuclear waste? We use radio isotopes in medicine and in research. What are we supposed to do with it?

I am not defending Edwards I just wonder about attacking him, alone, on these two points.

(And I am not sure why we are talking about him, again. Will have to search the forum, I suppose).

No "U" from me. Don't believe in this system.

[Jane Austin]

16. A couple of things he did made me suspicious of him over time.

One was that he let people think - never correcting them - that his father was a union man and that he grew up desperately poor.

His father was a "floor man" for management. Later he became the manager of a textile mill. In the post-war South, that made you solidly middle class.

Besides, wasn't the movie Norma Rae all about how the mills weren't unionized in the South?

I listened to Thom Hartmann every day and time after time people called in gushing about Edwards, and many of them would say they loved him because he was from a good union family, or that his father was a good union man, so he understood the working poor.

Neither Thom nor Edwards ever corrected that mis-impression.

Edwards did something else that seemed sleazy to me, and that was at an occasion when all the primary candidates spoke before a meeting of the DNC.

Several times in his speech he said "Will you stand with me? Will you stand for the poor? The forgotten? (I'm paraphrasing here) Will you stand with me? Will YOU stand up?"

So of course as people were hooting and hollering and clapping, they finally stood up.

Edwards did this at least five times during his speech, and I commented to Mr. Jane Austin that he was manipulating people into giving him standing ovations.

Sure enough, the coverage of those speeches said that Edwards was the only one who got standing ovations, and that in fact he'd gotten FIVE standing O's.

Edwards couldn't have done that without a lazy media's help, but I hated to see itcoming from him.

These two things weren't huge deal killers, but they gave me a look at his character that I didn't like.

My opinion didn't improve from that point.

[goclark]

30. Txs for the eye openers nt

[mitchum]

60. Yes, and as a floor manager in a southern textile mill...

his dad more than likely spent a lot of time delivering anti-union sentiments to those working under him. My dad had the exact same position and that was an expected job responsibility.
Now, my father profoundly regrets those past actions, but it still happened.

[invictus]

17. K&R. Cali, you are absolutely right. n/t

[lumberjack_jeff]

19. No room on the greatest page for the interesting and provocative.

But plenty for the toolish and dicklike.

[harmonicon]

20. that's fine and all, but why bring it up now?

When I made posts like this during the primaries they were often locked or deleted. That man's boat has sailed, and I hope - it sure seems that - we'll never have to hear from that snake oil salesman again.

[cherokeeprogressive]

21. He seemed slimy and dishonest to me from Day One. n/t

[hay rick]

23. K & U

[road2000]

24. Seriously:

What prompted this now? I thought he sank beneath our wisdom like a stone long ago.

[tishaLA]

26. I'm wondering that too

I don't like Edwards--never did--but this is out of the blue.

[Tom Rinaldo]

47. The usefulness of the tone of the OP can be debated...

...but I think there should be an important role for group self reflection on this board. John Edwards inspired fierce and sometimes aggressive loyalty from many on this board in years past - during times when it really mattered; while Democrats were in the midst of deciding between several compelling choices who we should nominate for President.

We are far from an important primary season right now, but that time will surely come again. It is useful for us all to reflect on how deeply our passions during those times are rooted in reality rather than our own projections.

[Uzybone]

25. No argument from me, Edwards was a giant fraud

I am glad we democrats had the vision to see through his charade during the primaries.

[Inspired]

27. Well, I used to like him. Now I don't. But why this thread, why now?

I don't get it. Is he back in the news or something?

[Raine]

28. I admit he had me fooled

now I can't tolerate the sight or sound of him. :puke:

[Clintonista2]

29. Flamebait

[Pool Hall Ace]

31. I agree, and I certainly hope he does NOT resurface.

He needs pack up his huge ego and disappear off the radar screen.

[DrToast]

33. I've got some bad news. You do care about his personal life.

He worked for a slimy hedgefund and he invested a huge amount of money in it. He made money off the backs of Katrina victims through Fortress. he built and obscene energy guzzling McMansion while preaching to us about conservation.

What do you think this stuff is?

[cali]

63. I think those examples point to his hypocrisy on public issues.

and I made that perfectly clear.

[tritsofme]

35. I don't particularly care about his personal transgressions

But let me tell you, the whole saga was nothing if not endlessly amusing.

[jeremyfive]

37. Contrasting View of Edwards

Just to offer a contrasting opinion, I liked Edwards and still do.

His infidelity is unfortunate, but it seems that it is being dealt with honestly and honorably, despite the considerable fall-out afterwards.

As a Southerner, I see a great deal of hostility toward the South in these posts. I won't get into an essay here on Northern oppression and ignorance of the region, but let's just say it's the sort of thinking that reduced the Southern intellectual William Styron character in "Sophie's Choice" to an Opie Taylor dolt in the movie version. (Well, if another poster can reference "Norma Rae", I can reference "Sophie".)

I very much admired how Edwards, along with his fellow candidates, gave an praiseworthy showing of themselves in front of the gay caucus debate. Edwards was confident, agreeable and non-threatening in all respects. (By gross contrast, the GOP would not even consider attending such a debate, though invited.)

Edwards is generally well spoken and engaging--he is usually not off-putting even when on the attack. I do accept his embrace of the common man, coming from a farm family in North Carolina myself.

Marital problems are best left between the man and his wife.

At least Edwards did not lie to the American people, use taxpayer money to fund an affair outside the country, and cover up with a huge lie about "the Appalachian trail" (Argentina is nowhere near)--as did Mark Sanford. Bill Maher today said he admired Sanford for "being in love"--I despise Sandord for his hypocracy (his attacks on Bill Clinton for similiar behavior cannot be ignored), theft of public monies, lies and the unexplicable continuance in office (hopefully, this is very temporary).

[Occam Bandage]

38. So, he's a jackass, but you like him because he's friendly and panders to poor folk,

even though Cali just explained in pretty thorough detail how all his "acceptance of the common man" is a shtick that he's never, ever backed up with action.

I do like your explanation of how his affair wasn't that bad, though, because there's worse people out there. Only, you know, Edwards did lie to the American people (and still does, regarding the paternity of his child), and he did use money from the public to fund his affair, for which he is currently under Federal investigation, and he did attack Bill Clinton for the affair when he was in office. Basically, every reason you have to hate Sanford is a reason to hate Edwards--but gawsh, he's jest a charmin' devil, ain't he?

[jeremyfive]

41. Smug post, Occam

I don't find Edwards charming, just bright and personable.

Edwards gives a good presentation of himself.

I believe what I read and follow. Cali's opinion is Cali's opinion--not an "explanation".

Mark Sanford tawks lak you, Occam Bandage. No sense.

I don't despise Sanford for his infidelity, though coming from a right wing hawk, it is particularly nauseating. I despise him for his despicable policy and self righteous posturing, in light of his whoring and lies to the national media. (Does Sanford think we are THAT stupid?)

[TankLV]

51. Yeah - just another "charming, bright and personable" HOMOPHOBIC BIGOT!!!

[karynnj]

46. Honestly and honorably????

He lied in his confession!! He lied about the timeline and he may well have denied a baby he fathered. These two things would be true if he was from Maine, Alaska or Kansas.

The fact is that I read far more attacks on Northern candidates of far greater accomplishment and integrity because they were not Southern. Me, I do not blame the South for Edwards' character flaws, they are Edwards and he would have them if he would have been raised in Massachusetts.

[TankLV]

50. He's was a FUCKING HYPOCRITE!!! Just another "sanctity of marriage" asshole

while keeping his boot on the backs of GBLT persons!!!

He will FOREVER reap our DERISION and SCORN!!!

[cali]

62. oh for pity's sake. there was nothing in the OP that lends credence to your

claim of an anti-southern bias coming into play re JE. I have never indulged in south bashing and that he's from the south has nothing to do with my antipathy toward him.

As I said, my dislike of this slimy character isn't rooted in his personal life.

[Occam Bandage]

39. Edwards being kept out of the limelight is the silver lining to 2004's stormcloud. nt

[Avalux]

43. Hey cali - couldn't have said it better myself.

Pegged him as a huge phony from the beginning; hated that he was the VP for Kerry. Completely insincere. :hi:

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TankLV]

49. Don't forget how he CONDEMNED Clinton for HIS actions while HE WAS DCING THE SAME THING!!!

Another disgusting "Holier than thou" moralist who's anything but...!!!

[SidneyCarton]

55. Tell us how you really feel Cali...

You seem to be holding back some.

[WI_DEM]

56. I agree. I've always found him to be a phony.

[ellacott]

61. Russ Feingold felt the same way

He was asked why he wasn't endorsing Edwards when he spoke like the most progressive of all the candidates. Feingold said that his voting record as a Senator didn't match his words as a candidate.