Is something better than nothing?

[busymom]

This has been at the forefront of my mind this week as the discussions about healthcare reform heat up.

I admit though from the outset that I am a bit of a cynic. Over the years I have come to trust our elected officials less and less...even those whom I have worked hard to get elected. Some of my fellow dems seem at times to just not have that extra oompf to push something through and stand up to the republicans. I'm specifically thinking about the events following 9-11 and voting to give Bush approval to go to war.

So here we stand at a crossroads in our nation with access to affordable, quality healthcare being a real crisis. And...I see how medicare is and is .. not working out and wonder how the heck our government is going to manage healthcare for the general population. As it is, the govt. bean counters opt to save money with medicare regularly by cutting payments to providers and creating complicated drug plans that you almost need a degree in to figure out. My mom is 65 and hasn't signed up yet because she can't get it all figured out.

Now, as the plan for a public option/healthcare option are coming out, we are hearing things like congress might be opting out of the public option to maintain their own gold standard health care (they are too good to be put into the system they are trying to create???), there will be potentially $5000/person deductibles?, there may be rationing of care for older people (which ... hey... it may have to be that way, I don't know...we have to cut costs somehow...maybe 100 year old grandma shouldn't get the pacemaker?...but who gets to make that decision? Her doctor or the govt. bean counters?). Once again, it seems like our government is more interested in the special interests of big business (insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies and lawyers) than the people.

I know we are all eager to put something out there and get it passed, but is getting something out there right now better than waiting awhile and hammering out all of the details?

Maybe I'm just a simple person, but I can't understand why this healthcare bill has so many pages to it. We want a public option that is reasonably affordable, covers catastrophic illness and preventative care. Why can't we simply look at stopping litigation for every fart (obviously, there are cases where litigation will still be necessary, but we are a litigation overkill society right now), demand that the pharm companies charge the same amount for drugs for americans that they do for say...canadians and mexicans. After all, we already pay for much of the research with our taxes that fund nih grants, etc. If that means that pharm companies have to cut their advertising budgets, or spend less money trying to figure out how to name the next viagra pill then so be it.

Why can't congress just lay it down and say "we want a public option that funds annual check-ups, catastrophic coverage for ICU, chemotherapy, etc". We will lower costs by limiting ridiculous lawsuits, demanding that the pharmaceutical companies step up to the plate and by making sure that everyone is to opt in for coverage so that they don't just buy in when they are sick.

Again...I'm just a simple gal....but I see this becoming way too convoluted and at the end of the day I'm afraid that in the push to pass something, we will get something we don't want.

[LWolf]

1. We already have something.

A broken system, but a system to insure people, and provide some low income people with public insurance, already exists.

Do we want something worse, or something better?

That's the question.

I'd rather stick with the crap we've got now than end up with something worse.

[busymom]

2. Our system is broken...

I sure won't deny that. At the same time, I wonder if what is being proposed right now is an improvement at all...or if it will even make things worse across the board?

I feel like the insurance companies have a stranglehold on us. I watched my chemo buddy lose his health insurance in the MIDDLE of a bone marrow transplant because he had "missed too many days of work". That's just bs. We pay dearly for our health insurance and have large out-of-pocket expenses before our plan kicks in...but it at least paid for my treatments and all complications and hospitalizations...so that's good. At the same time, there are people without insurance here who got the same care and their bills were written off by the system.

It is completely messed up.

We need to think in terms of preventative care and screenings, catastrophic coverage and affordable prescription drug plans.

I don't think a for-profit insurance company can play a role in that.

I wonder why someone with more brains than I have can't start a not-for-profit insurance plan with reasonable monthly premiums that covers at least necessary health care. I'm not talking about cosmetic procedures ... but life-saving treatments. If there was a way to have it be reasonably priced, then more people would opt in because they want the security of being covered just in case...

Again...I'm a simpleton.

[babylonsister]

5. Lots of people are praising this (so far, warts and all) including

but not limited to Howard Dean. I'm waiting to see what the final outcome will be before panicking.

Dr. Dean's Second Opinion

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-07-15/dr-deans-second-opinion/full

[busymom]

8. awesome...thnx for the link!

[LWolf]

21. You are not a simpleton,

and someone already has put forward a not-for-profit plan: HR 676. Conyers & Kucinich have kept single-payer not-for-profit on the table for years now.

Our "mainstream" reps are all in the pockets of the industry; they won't pass anything that pisses their biggest donors off.

That's why we don't have it already, and that's why this fiasco of a process is going to result in something that may not be any better than the broken system we've got now.

[FrenchieCat]

3. Obama speaks about those who are afraid of changing

things due to fear of something different when it is accompanied by complexity.

I think that it is very comfortable to opt for the status quo
over Change that hasn't been totally hashed yet,
and therefore is not concrete. Especially if there are enough forces out there
putting out different messages, in order to keep you afraid and confused and frozen.

Meanwhile, The Republicans are banking on folks just like you.....

[busymom]

4. So you are one of those people...

who blindly trusts in the government and our officials even when the red flags start waving and then gets pissed when things don't work out?

You put it pretty well. Yes, I am a little dubious about a massively expensive bill that hasn't been properly hashed out yet. I don't know many republicans who bank on ME! LOL

[BlooInBloo]

6. "I don't know many republicans who bank on ME!" - All of them.

This has been another episode of Simple Answers To Simple Questions.

[busymom]

10. My chidren bank on me...my family banks on me...

My fellow democrats bank on me to show up, do the footwork and AND to think critically and ask questions. I expect nothing less for them because I want the best from this country.

I'm not a rethug that falls in line with the talking heads just to tow the party line.

[FrenchieCat]

11. No. Actually, I'm keeping myself informed on the various complexities,

and what are the facts and what are the rumored fictions of it....
and that keeps me from getting confused and believing things that have no real basis,
and keeps the Republicans from making me afraid.

What I know as of now is that the bills are still fluid, and therefore the speculating,
and interpreting done by those with an agenda moves me very little. In otherwords,
I ain't buying something put out by either the Left or the Right, just because it is being
sold.

Perhaps because as a Self employed person paying $1,200 per month for Kaiser coverage that includes $75.00 co pays per visit, I already understand the high cost of health care and the difficulties in paying for such....and understand that Doing nothing is not an option that I would suggest to anyone. I also, yes, do have faith that Barack Obama, the President that I voted for, will not make things worse in this area. That's a perogative that I choose over supporting doing nothing based on confusion generated by the speculators.

[busymom]

13. I didn't suggest doing nothing...

I asked if pushing through something quickly to have something is better than getting nothing before the end of August...perhaps I didn't make that clear enough.

you are right that this plan is all still fluid and discussions about it are still speculative. How, then can we the people support something being pushed through by August 7th without having a clearer understanding of what IT is?

[FrenchieCat]

17. You suggested exactly that. Read the title of your OP....

and the last two sentences of the text of your op.

You can clean it up now, but yes, you were exactly suggesting that doing nothing might be better than doing something.

[busymom]

19. I won't edit anything...

read my entire post before jumping to conclusions. Of course, you also have to consider the context of this post that was made while a lot of discussions were ongoing about the details of the new public option, potential funding issues, non-support from blue dog dems, confusion over $5000 deductibles and requests to finish the bill after the August break instead of pushing it through before....

context...

[FrenchieCat]

24. The context that you left out was in your analogy.....

in comparing a 16 years stall on health care reform with votes from congress after 9/11.
And adding that before the 16 years, there has been stall in health care reform since Truman.

context worth considering means including context that makes sense.....and not just coming up with a concerned rant.

"Deferring reform is nothing more than defending the status quo, and those who would oppose our efforts should take a hard look at just what it is theyre defending."-Barack Obama

And Ted Kennedy...."For me, this is a season of hope, new hope for a justice and fair prosperity for the many and not just for the few, new hope. And this is the cause of my life, new hope that we will break the old gridlock and guarantee that every American -- north, south, east, west, young, old -- will have decent, quality health care as a fundamental right and not a privilege."

[Better Believe It]

14. And who are the bankers and insurance industry banking on?

They are banking on the the political whores they bought in Washington, Republicans and Democrats.

We are not afraid, confused and frozen.

We are angry with the moneyed interests that control Washington.

Why do you fail to understand that?

And if you want to really find out what is being proposed in healthcare, I suggest you read the House and Senate bills and learn something! You don't have to believe me. Get informed and find out for yourself. It appears that your almost totally uninformed on the subject of healthcare.

I suppose we could all sing along with you that happy refrain you keep delivering on Democratic Underground .....

http://www.smart-central.com/happydays.htm

I think you need a strong dose of reality.

Read.

Learn.

Study.

I won't be visiting Fantasyland.

[busymom]

15. Thank You

Someone on here published a graphic of who supports a public plan vs how much they are getting paid by insurance companies. It was pretty bad!

There is something terribly wrong with health insurance companies who can buy our officials (even when it comes down to creating a public health care plan). These same companies regularly deny people paying high premiums for procedures, cancel plans in the middle of expensive treatments and make people jump through ridiculous hoops to get care.

How can we break away from this!!!

[FrenchieCat]

18. The beauty about your words is that it examplifies your

feeling of superiority...without any evidence as to why you should feel this way about yourself, other than your dogmatic all or nothing approach, and your personal insults.

Unyielding dogmatic ideologues wishing for things that ain't even happening. This is exactly the fairyland that one can only live out in their dreams, because the realities for solutions are much more complex than just feeling angry about the monied interests that control Washington....as you put it.

[Better Believe It]

23. Not at all. It just seems that most people here read more and are better informed than you ....

and understand that Wall Street and corporations have more pull in Washington than common working people.

If you did some serious reading you would understand that.

[FrenchieCat]

25. Your superiority complex

is stupifying, to say the most.

[katandmoon]

29. No, they're banking on Obama and other DINOs caving to the health insurance industry

[DrToast]

7. We could do better. n/t

[TexasObserver]

9. Yes, because Something gets a check on the list, and Nothing doesn't.

Something gets us to the point where there is some effort at Universal Health Care. Something can be amended and expanded in the future.

[busymom]

12. If we make sure that that something is the best it can be

then maybe the amendments and expansions necessary will be less. As it is, once this health reform is passed it will take time to go into effect and even longer to start figuring out what does and doesn't work ... then the issue of the cost and what isn't working will be out there in time for the republicans to seize on it as their campaign issue.

I want the best possible plan for us as quickly as possible. I'm just questioning how fast we feel like we have to push it through.

[FrenchieCat]

16. Seems to me, based on this quote of yours which appears to be the conclusion of your op,....

"I see this becoming way too convoluted and at the end of the day I'm afraid that in the push to pass something, we will get something we don't want."

Since that seemed to have been your original concern (as opposed to now your concern being you wanting "the best possible plan for us as quickly as possible"), then your initial quote is exactly the reaction that Republicans want from as many as they can get it. In fact, this is the exact reaction they were looking for back in 1993....and they got exactly what they ordered, and all we got was a bigger bill for less treatment year after year after year. So I disagree with your op..."Doing something is better than doing nothing" in this case.

[busymom]

20. I don't want the plan as quickly as possible...I want

a solid, good plan and I'm willing to wait 2 more months if THAT is what it takes. I don't want it to get started, discover that too many things won't work and then have to begin the clustermunch of overhaul right out of the startng gate.

Here's my point. Is passing something quickly just to pass it better than nothing? No. No it is not. It is better to revise, fix, sort it out, take a few months and then pass a good, solid bill that is clear.

I don't want a bigger bill for treatment each year, but on its face this bill seems to not be a cost-reducer.

I want REAL health care reform for the american people...not insurance company money driven, half-ass reform pushed through quickly before we have a chance to evaluate it.

[FrenchieCat]

26. We have been discussing Health Care reform for the last fucking

16 years, and then since Truman.
Just because you didn't pay attention then,
doesn't mean it didn't happen!

And at the end of the day, it ain't just about you,
it is about all of us.....and a bill named after Teddy Kennedy and with his blessing,
is way fucking better than what the Republicans recommend; doing fucking nothing some more. :eyes:

[Jennicut]

22. I am torn, I want a better plan but then we may get nothing at all.

Social Security certainly was not the same back when it started.
We shall see.

[yourguide]

27. If we had gotten something in 1993/1994...

the Obama administration would likely be pushing though all of the compromises the Clintons would have had to have taken to get something through back then. The Clintons would have laid the groundwork for the new system.

Obama is starting almost from scratch now.

I dont have stars in my eyes or any illusions, I know what I want, and what we as a country need and doubt seriously we are going to get it all but getting some of it (like a public option) at least lays the groundwork for future improvements.

[solstice]

28. I think you answered your own question when you

said "Once again, it seems like our government is more interested in the special interests of big business (insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies and lawyers) than the people."

BINGO.

So - the answer is a resounding no. Because - we haven't really GOTTEN anything!