The psychic cost of the closet

[dsc]

I am reposting this due to the idea that "gays can hide it" or even that "gays should hide it" is appearing to take some currency here at DU. It really isn't as simple as that.

Keeping the fact you are gay from the people who know and love you necessitates telling many lies. It means changing pronouns of lovers, not telling books you have read, movies you have watched, plans you have made, and a host of other things.

Imagine never wearing your engagement or wedding rings. Imagine never mentioning the love of your life to your friends. Imagine never bringing him or her to a Christmas Party at work. Imagine never mentioning whom you are dating. Imagine never introducing your spouse to your parents. Imagine no pictures on your desk or cubby. Imagine making up false love interests of the opposite gender.

All of the above and more are part of being in the closet. Not only that, but you have to be perfect. You can't ever slip up. You can never have a misplaced he. You can never stare too long at that cute guy. You can never have a well meaning gay guy mention you are gay by mistake. You can never leave a matchbook, magazine, or message where it might be found by mistake.

Trust me it isn't easy. I know I have been there, and I was pretty good at it. But the hardest thing, is knowing that every day, in ways little and big, I plotted to lie. I created a false identity for myself. No one knew the real me. The guilt and shame were toxic.

Yes, we can stay in the closet. But it is costly. I hope this post has made that clear, even if my writing leaves something to be desired.

I am hitting the sack now so I will answer replies tomorrow. Since the other post about us staying in the closet got locked I am posting this.

[hedgehog]

1. Someone here suggested that "gays should hide it"?

What was it, a post from alternate universe DU? If you weren't hitting the sack, I'd ask you to link me there so I could alert on it!

[pnwmom]

2. No one should ever say that "gays should hide it." You're right --

the closet is painful for everyone involved. And anyone who is openly gay should be applauded.

But also, no one should scorn much less attack gay people who choose to remain partly or completely in the closet, for reasons only they are in a position to weigh -- unless the person who is not out is acting in a way that hurts the rights of other gay or bisexual people (for example, a secretly gay member of Congress who votes against gay rights).

In other words, it's up to the individual to make his or her choice on how open to be, just as it's up to every individual to decide how private he or she wants to be in general.

[jclincali]

3. Wish I could rec this 1000 times.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

4. what I want to know is

who in the hell has been saying that around here? Who are you and :wtf: are you thinking?

[Leo The Cleo]

5. Rock and a Hard Place

I think it sours us and ruins us when we have to hide our identities or do not have the means to explore ourselves. It is a shame. Now, I've never been a proponent of people not being able to express themselves, but I must react to the full intent of your statement. There is a striking omission, which attempts to reconstruct the argument. You left out the fact that the comparison was to blackness. And any black person (gay or straight) who has said these makes a very valid point. The oppression blacks feel is due to something that cannot be hidden. It's a flag that is waved and cannot be concealed. No one here has ever said that any gay person should hid their identity. It would be ridiculous. It would be insidious.

But the attempt to omit the context of those statements simply shows that you'd like to scrap details to gain sympathy. That is deplorable. People in this group love the gay communities. No one here wants to marginalize gay communities. It would help none of us. By why the attempt to marginalize, decontextualize and diminish the value of the black community or any other community? I don't think there is a person here who wouldn't lay it all down for our gay brothers and sisters. So why the subterfuge?

[LooseWilly]

11. Subterfuge?

The OP was about a specific point... about being in the closet. Why are you trying to cloud the simple message of the OP... which sounds like a good faith attempt to illuminate the DU community at large, in the event that some might not have thought about it before, as to the effects on an individual of trying to "hide" being gay... why are you trying to cloud this simple illuminatory OP by trying to suggest that this simple point somehow doesn't exist outside of the context of race by insinuating that the OP is an "attempt to marginalize, decontextualize and diminish the value of the black community or any other community".

The language of the OP is describing the effects of a living situation (living in the closet) which cuts across all races, and includes both genders... as well as transgenders. Your comment that "The oppression blacks feel is due to something that cannot be hidden. It's a flag that is waved and cannot be concealed." suggests that you are trying to contrast that with the experience of being LGBT... and in so doing your comment itself suggests that there is an inherent difference between the two that has its foundation in "something that cannot be hidden"... which, in turn, suggests that being LGBT... in contrast with being black... "can be hidden".

To then follow those statements by saying "No one here has ever said that any gay person should hid their identity. It would be ridiculous. It would be insidious." is interesting... precisely because you chose the word "should" to describe hiding identity, rather than "can".

And that is precisely the point of the OP. The cost of that supposition of "can".

[dsc]

12. No you merely said we could

another, in result to a female couple who got verbally gay bashed was, it would have happened to you even if you had been straight. But of course you aren't advocating that, you are just saying we are less deserving of our rights if we don't. Oh I get it.

[omega minimo]

17. Perhaps you misunderstood

There was a story about 2 women verbally harassed by a group of men, who called them "dykes" when they didn't respond to unwelcome attention.

The point was, this could have happened -- and does -- to straight women. Calling them "dykes" is a reflection on the men's stupid assumptions about all women (they must be gay if they don't want us!!) and not necessarily used b/c they believed the women WERE gay.

Pretty screwed up, isn't it?

"in result to a female couple who got verbally gay bashed was, it would have happened to you even if you had been straight."

If that's the story you're referring to, yeah it COULD have happened -- and has and does -- to straight women. Why not have a problem with THAT?

[pnwmom]

13. You have a valid point but another valid point

is that black people, while they don't have the option (good or bad) to hide their color, at least have the advantage of growing up in families with other people of color. Gay people are most often born into families led by straight parents, and often the people they feel they must hide from are those closest to them.

[omega minimo]

18. Very painful and lasting hurt.

[donheld]

6. I had a boss one time who tried to make me get rid of a picture of

a couple of guys in a loving embrace. She lived to regret it. :D

[Leo The Cleo]

8. Funny What People Will Do

If there is nothing vulgar about a picture then it seems a bit much to try and get rid of it. If I were in that situation I'd demand that every single picture in the office get tossed. I'm glad she lived to regret it.

[donheld]

9. That's exactly what i did!

:hi:

[Leo The Cleo]

10. Good for you!

[Rowdyboy]

7. I'm a pretty good case in point....

In 1969 when I was 15 it was definitely not cool to be gay. I shoplifted gay porn from a newsstand because I never dreamed of openly buying it. I could easily have gone to jail had I been caught. I likely would have committed suicide. What can I say, it was a different time.

I spent nearly 25 years working as a state employee helping people find jobs. In that time, I only came out and was 100% honest with 3 friends/co-workers. With the rest, I played the game-DADT. I had friends but always with the unspoken boundaries. We never talked about what was obvious.

"You can't ever slip up. You can never have a misplaced he. You can never stare too long at that cute guy. You can never have a well meaning gay guy mention you are gay by mistake. You can never leave a matchbook, magazine, or message where it might be found by mistake."

I did all those things! Over the years there were a few "misplaced hes", I stared too long MANY times and I've left a few magazines in the wrong place-back in the day. I was able to keep my secret from the person I loved most until I was nearly 40 (my mom). What a sad "victory" for me. I wish she had known far earlier.

Don't misunderstand. All my friends knew. I had plenty of love and support-almost all of it straight by the way (I lived in rural Mississippi). My life was in no way bad but no one should feel it necessary to hide his or her essence. To feel compelled to play down who you are is about as depressing as it gets.

The closet isn't just costly-its devastating. No children should ever face that crap agsin.

[pnwmom]

14. It was a different time, Rowdyboy. I lived through it too,

though as the daughter of a gay man and his sraight spouse. My mother didn't tell us, of course, but every time he came home very late she worried that he might have gotten assaulted or arrested. It was a very real concern. And one day the police showed up looking for my father when I was having a birthday party! Turns out that it was because my father had gotten too many speeding tickets . . . but my mother's face when she opened the door is something I won't forget.

Is it that much better even in rural Mississippi now? I hope so.

[Rowdyboy]

22. We're been openly a couple for 20 years now and never had any trouble....

not even a rude remark-at least to our face. We know most of the neighbors in a three block radius and are friends with many. Got invited to half a dozen parties last year and hosted one in May which was a blast-hell, I even swap recipes with the matriarchs at our local Episcopal church. We've even "adopted" a young straight couple who call us both dad, help us work on the house and come to Sunday dinner.

One point-few of our friends were born in this town. Since we're near an urban center, many people have moved into town from outside both the city and the state. Our closest friends are from Ohio, Massachusetts, Maryland, New Orleans and Natchez. We have some friends among the locals both most are from elsewhere.

Its not what you'd expect from Mississippi.

[pnwmom]

23. Are you near one of the universities? Those are usually the best place to be. n/t

[Rowdyboy]

24. Sadly no....though there are some really old, artistic neighborhoods in Jackson....

near Millsaps and Belhaven colleges. I know several gay couple who live comfortably there.

[Flying Dream Blues]

21. Wish I could rec your post, too.

:hug:

[Rosa Luxemburg]

15. Good post

[Zenlitened]

16. K&R. Excellent post.

Many people just really can't comprehend what it means to live a lie, to maintain such a fiction.

It poisons the person who is forced (or feels compelled) to live that way, it truly does.

And the harm can linger for a lifetime. Some are haunted forever by sadness, an air of regret for all the years lost to hiding.

"Wasted youth"? Imagine if your entire youth was lost to playing a role, pantomiming the life of someone other than yourself.

Closets kill. Emotionally. And, too often, physically as well.

:(

[Fearless]

19. Wow! I'm sincerely glad I didn't see that thread...

They should be too. :eyes:

Don't forget also the psychological problems it causes (especially to one's self esteem) during the formative years. If one is always forced to hide who they are, they will never be truly comfortable with who they are, and be (IMHO) much less likely to find someone that makes them happy to begin with.


On the bright side, kids today don't seem to care about orientation as much. IMHO, it's lost some of the stigma that it once had, probably through widespread portrayal on television and some movies. As a relatively new high school teacher, I was delighted by how far we've come even in the ten years or so since I was in high school myself. (Granted I'm in Massachusetts.) Anywho, just thought I'd add some happiness for the future.

Fearless
:kick:

[pnwmom]

20. I think TV and movies have made a huge difference. n/t

[Fearless]

25. It's amazing just what effect positive role models can have on our children.

[LWolf]

26. I worked with a colleague

who was gay. He lived a very guarded life. As an elementary school teacher, he knew his professional viability was on the line. So he never "came out," even to those of us that he knew he was "safe" with.

He did, in small after work or weekend gatherings, occasionally bring a "friend." I always felt honored that he trusted me that far.

He eventually moved to a city 45 miles away, and commuted back and forth. I think he was happier, and felt safer, not living in the community he worked in.

He's not the only gay colleague I've had, of course. He's just the one that showed me the most of his "other" life.

Gay friends who work outside of education have been more willing to be "out," in my circle.

[dsc]

27. It is hard to be out in education in many places

the lower the grade the harder to be out. I came out to my students this year but I wouldn't have done so in a middle or elementary school.

[LWolf]

28. It might be one of the hardest places.

Probably one of the last places. I'm glad you have been able to do so safely.

I had an administrator who was out, all the way back in the 80s. She mentored me, and she inspired me. She was loved by both parents and teachers as a principal, and by principals as an assistant sup at the DO. When she moved to another district to become superintendent at the end of the 90s, a flood of people from our very large district followed her. Not all at once, but over a period of about 5 years.

That didn't stop her from being targeted by the right wing in our community. The overwhelming support from those she connected with every day prevented her attackers from succeeding.