Questions for the Obama Critics

[Yavin4]

Have any of you ever been in a leadership position in your lives? And, if you have:

Have you ever had to answer to stakeholders in your leadership that hated you and worked to undermine your leadership at every turn?

Had to deal with powerful forces who could move you out of your leadership?

Had to form coalitions of groups that may not approve of what you're doing?

Had to share your power with other groups?

And, if you have experienced all of that, then what advice would you give Obama on how to deal with these issues? What would you advise Obama to do with Blue Dog Dems and the moneyed interests that dominate America?

I'm just wondering.

[muntrv]

1. Another one: Have you ever used your brain?

[Yavin4]

3. I'm not Trying To Start A Fight

I'm really trying to get some insight. I think that most people have never been in a leadership position before, and they don't really understand how that's different from being a constituent.

[muntrv]

6. The question wasn't directed at you, but the Obama critics. Sorry for not

indicating that.

[madmax]

2. "Nice f------ discussion board. There's nobody here."

"Nice f------ discussion board. There's nobody here." -- Actual Text of The First Ever Post on DU

:rofl: Yeah, Baby - and just look at us now :) :bounce:

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

4. The critics here don't strike me as people with much leadership experience.

I'm not all-pro, but I've managed more then 10 people at several jobs and it was like herding cats. It's takes special skills to keep things humming...

[Fire1]

9. "The critics here don't strike me as people with much

leadership experience." That's putting it mildly.

[goclark]

19. I marvel at the leadership skills of President Obama

After being in Administrative positions for many years, it can be like walking a tight rope.

He is amazing ~

[MarjorieG]

5. That's why I liked the corp heavy White House TV 'town hall,' brought a lot of that reality home.

They are all stakeholders we have to work with.

[salguine]

7. What horseshit. You don't need leadership experience to know when you're being fucked over.

[AuntPatsy]

11. I take it your answer would be no

[salguine]

36. It isn't yes or no, because I don't see why any of the questions have any relevance to

criticizing any of the actions of the President.

[Yavin4]

45. Here's The Relevance

When you criticize leadership, which I do endorse, your criticism should be based on a firm understanding of the position, and if you were ever in a leadership position, you would have a better insight into what Obama is going through.

For example, if you were a leader who had to share your power, then you'd have a better understanding of how to build compromise with people who don't share your goals.

[jgraz]

27. Apparently some people do

[mdmc]

8. I take it that his health care pitch was pretty middle groundish?

I didn't see it and am looking for some info..

but I will answer the questions in your OP -

Have any of you ever been in a leadership position in your lives? And, if you have:
YES

Have you ever had to answer to stakeholders in your leadership that hated you and worked to undermine your leadership at every turn?
Perhaps not hated. But I have worked with people that were not on the same page as me. Sometimes I had to work with people that wanted to go the exact opposite direction as me and it was terrible.

Had to deal with powerful forces who could move you out of your leadership?
Yeah. And I buckled to their pressure and did their bidding. And still got nowhere.

Had to form coalitions of groups that may not approve of what you're doing?
Yes. I did pretty good at building coalitions with the opposition.

Had to share your power with other groups?
Yup and ditto.

And, if you have experienced all of that, then what advice would you give Obama on how to deal with these issues? What would you advise Obama to do with Blue Dog Dems and the moneyed interests that dominate America?
My only advice to Obama is to do whatever it takes to get re-elected. We all know that Obama will be better then whoever the GOP puts up. And the choice will be Obama or the GOP. And the smart choice will be on Obama. So my advice would be to fuck the liberals, fuck the working class, suck up to the corporations and to the main stream media, and win re-election.

[AuntPatsy]

13. do you honestly believe that your last sentence is what Obama is doing?

[mdmc]

14. no that is my advice to him

I honestly think he is doing the best that he can.

[AuntPatsy]

16. thank you so do I

[AuntPatsy]

10. reality is hard for some to deal with

[damntexdem]

12. Not particularly an Obama critic, but ...

I have had plenty of experience with those who wanted me to shut up because I hadn't had enough experience, didn't realize what was involved, couldn't see the big picture, and so on. For example, starting with the Vietnam War, I have dealt with those who argued that I should oppose the given war because of such reasons. I have had and continue to have a response to such critiques, and I apply it equally to anyone who might claim that I should not criticize Obama: "screw that, here's my position." Or when asked by what right I expressed my opposition to a given war: "by the right that I fight for by opposing your war." I do not and will not recognize "well, you haven't been there" as an objection to my making a critique.

[Hutzpa]

15. I'm kicking because I'm curious to see

how this plays out.





:kick:

[AuntPatsy]

17. Those wishing to cause trouble will avoid this question like the plague they

are helping to spread because it requires more than the mere, he sucks and cant do anything right posts a few durs like to throw out there

[RandomThoughts]

18. My opinion.

Have any of you ever been in a leadership position in your lives?

Not sure

And, if you have:
Have you ever had to answer to stakeholders in your leadership that hated you and worked to undermine your leadership at every turn?

Yes, I was smeared, and had social and economic life ruined for buying a soda drink that a man with no money asked for while at a tavern. He was a cripple that was an ex felon, when confronted with not ostracising him, I refusing to be mean to him. I think he also owed rent money to his former landlord that was the presumed arsonist of his house for insurance money, and that arsonist was a member of a vigilante social group. I laughed when they threatened me, so they smeared me.
:shrug:
Since smear lead to loss of work, I went to work for a big corporation. There I was demoted from management for refusing to say 'offering to pray for someone might be harassment'(although I never did that at work, it was a principle of being forced to agree with a different belief.) Then I was fired partially for refusing to lie at work a few weeks later. Been poor with no money since then, only bill is food and electricity, luckily an individual helps with that, although I believe some day to get compensated to pay back or forward that generosity.


Had to deal with powerful forces who could move you out of your leadership?

No, since I do not claim any leadership nobody can move me out, but if I was there or not I would not know anyway, nor would it effect what I do. If I say something, its power would not be in knowing who listens to it. But on the topic of dealing with powerful forces, I don't make deals with 'forces' but it seems things go pretty well for me when things go against me. But that's none of my doing, or I don't take any credit for it.
:shrug:


Had to form coalitions of groups that may not approve of what you're doing?

Not sure, but I think their are many groups that work for good works. I think I try to explain what I think is right and let people choose their own direction. But I think people should have to choose and face the fate of those choices, or at least learn from them.


Had to share your power with other groups?

I would probably say all power I know of comes from one source, but what power I would have I would of coarse share with anyone of good, but it goes against my ideas to think it is my power, it is more our power when given, and it would not be given by me, although I think it is given to anyone that works for the good things.


And, if you have experienced all of that, then what advice would you give Obama on how to deal with these issues? What would you advise Obama to do with Blue Dog Dems and the moneyed interests that dominate America?

I do not accept they dominate America. And the temptations to deal with them leads to bad things, so I try to be as honest and kind as I can, and try not to pity them too much, since nobody likes that.

I think President Obama, Pelosi, And Reed are doing a good job, and I hope they will get a good bill past, and many other good things done. I don't think they need my advice, but if anyone got any inspiration, or disagreed with things I think, that would be fine also.


I'm just wondering.

Me too and it is wonderful.

[Mira]

20. He He Hey - it's the first time ever I recommended

and it jumped two places up. This must be (and is) a valuable thread.
I like the way you think.

[LWolf]

21. Answers:

Have any of you ever been in a leadership position in your lives?

Yes.

Have you ever had to answer to stakeholders in your leadership that hated you and worked to undermine your leadership at every turn?

Rarely, but it happened. Generally, I had to answer to stakeholders who often opposed me, but "hate" was not involved.

Had to deal with powerful forces who could move you out of your leadership?

Yes.

Had to form coalitions of groups that may not approve of what you're doing?

I didn't have to "form" them. Just deal with them.

Had to share your power with other groups?

Of course.

what advice would you give Obama on how to deal with these issues? What would you advise Obama to do with Blue Dog Dems and the moneyed interests that dominate America?

Use the bully pulpit, the power of veto, and the Democratic Majority to push through reforms that take corporations out of power at every level:

bigger, stronger, and better-enforced anti-trust laws

re-regulate media, enacting some sort of modern, updated, and well-enforced fairness doctrine

undo the privatization and political manipulation of public education; turn it back over to educators.

enact 100% public financing, mandatory equal media time, publicly funded, organized, and moderated debates that ensure every candidate gets equal time and answers every question, and IRV for all elections.

[Yavin4]

23. Thank You For Your Response. I Have More Questions for You

Now, to do all that's in your advice to Obama, he would need congressional approval. He does not have the power to do those things by himself. Thus, he would still need to get Congress to pass all of these measures, some of which would be against their own political interests.

So, without the power to do all of these things, how would he be able to get them through Congress?

[LWolf]

25. Use the bully pulpit, meet with them, pressure them,

and use the political capital the first democrat in the wh brings to his first term.

The same energy and organization that he used to get himself elected.

[Yavin4]

26. Bully Pulpit Tactics Don't Work On People Who Ideologically Oppose You

For instance, you want Obama to fight for public financing of campaigns when several prominent Dems have gotten millions from campaign contributions. It's how they get re-elected. Thus, you're advising Obama to ask prominent Dems to give up their source of power.

Also, you're underestimating the ego of the politicians on Capitol Hill. Some of them have been getting elected to their office since before Obama was born. They have egos as well, and if a President loses congress when said congress is of the same party as the president, then it's a disaster.

[AuntPatsy]

31. do you think they undestand yet?

[Yavin4]

34. People Don't Get It That Leaders Cannot Do Whatever They Want Whenever They Want

Esp. in a democracy. A president has to work and compromise with others.

People in leadership positions understand this well.

[LWolf]

61. An administration that will use power to threaten Democrats

who oppose war funding, but who will not use that same power to get votes for progressive reforms, is misusing that power, imo, wasting my time, and delaying the reforms and healing that this nation needs.

This administration obviously doesn't hesitate to use whatever means necessary to achieve its goals. Too bad its goals benefit the wrong people.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/12/white-house-browbeats-dem_n_214870.html

[Birthmark]

22. Yes to all of your "qualifying" questions.

What I would advise him to do is stake out a minimum position (privately, of course), demand much more than that and then "compromise" --making sure everyone in the whole world knows that he's compromised. He doesn't seem to do that.

As for the Blue Cross Dems, for the top priority items I'd simply tell them that for these issues (and they should be very few) they either support my position or look forward to a primary challenger that I would back with enthusiasm and many personal visits.

[Yavin4]

24. That Is Actually Some Good Advice

But how well do you think that it'd go over that he compromised with the left? By staking out a strong position and compromising, people on the left would say that he's weak.

[Birthmark]

29. Thanks

Every issue is going to be slightly different in circumstance, of course. There are some issues that don't lend themselves to compromise.

In answer to your question, there will almost certainly be criticism, with or without compromise. The extent and depth of the criticism is what really matters. Pissing off 5% of your base isn't a big problem. Pissing off 50% is probably unacceptable. One needs to figure out your tolerance for criticism, the type of criticism and the importance of the issue. There are issues that might well be worth sacrificing a second-term.

So far, I'm unimpressed with Obama. I don't think he's terrible and he's definitely a horizontal "8" better than Bush. But he really hasn't been masterful, IMO.

That said, there's no doubt that he is a highly intelligent man and will likely improve as time passes.

[jgraz]

28. So we actually have to BE president to criticize the president?

Just when you think the DU bus couldn't get any shorter... :eyes:

[AuntPatsy]

30. the op said no such thing try reading it again and perhaps you will be able

to impart value to his or her question instead of the usual snarkiness which gets us no where

[jgraz]

32. I don't think it's possible to "impart value" to this OP

It's pretty much value-proof.

[PVnRT]

47. Usual snarkiness - like your other replies in this thread?

The hypocrisy, it burns.

[Yavin4]

35. No, That's Not What I Asked

I asked if you've been in a position of leadership, and then I presented challenges that might have faced your leadership and then I asked you for advice on how to handle those challenges.

I have no problem with anyone criticizing Obama, but if you do offer criticism, it would be helpful for the cause if you could offer how the situation could be handled.

For instance, how would you handle Blue Dog Democrats?

[jgraz]

38. You're assuming Obama wants to "handle" the Blue Dogs

From here, it looks like another convenient excuse to kowtow to Big Pharma and the insurance companies.

If Obama were actually serious about healthcare reform, he would have opened with a Single Payer proposal, then compromised if necessary (except no one would have compromised once the potential cost savings became public). As it stands, he opened with a watered-down proposal and now he's using the Blue Dogs as an excuse to water it down even further.

[Yavin4]

40. So You're Going To Avoid The Quetions

Well, if Obama really is just a sill for corp America, wouldn't the most politically expedient and advantageous thing to do is put off healthcare reform altogether?

[jgraz]

42. I'm not going to waste time on questions that don't make sense

Very little of what your questions imply is actually true.

[Yavin4]

44. How Is That So? How Is What I'm Implying Not True?

Is is not true that leaders have to work with hostile factions that undermine them? Is it not true that leaders have to share power? Tell me, what about my questions is not true?

And again, attacking me is not answering the question. It's avoiding it.

[jgraz]

48. Because Obama is *choosing* not to lead.

*This* is what leader sounds like:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=341411&mesg_id=341411

And *this* is what Obama is doing instead:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3982189

[Yavin4]

49. If He Were Choosing "Not To Lead"

Wouldn't he avoid healthcare reform altogether? That would be the far easier political choice would it not?

Also, leadership is a heck of a lot more than making speeches.

[jgraz]

50. With 70% of the people in favor of it? Looks more like following to me.

The "hard" part of healthcare reform is finding a program that will fool most of the rubes without pissing off the corporate overlords.

[Yavin4]

52. One of the Hard Lessons That I Learned In My Leadershio Experience

was that being right, having the facts on my side is not enough, not nearly enough, to get your way.

Sure, there are opinion polls that will show you that America wants healthcare reform, but when you get into the details of it, you run into resistance, and a leader has to overcome that resistance.

My advice to you is to become a leader of something, and learn just how hard it is to overcome egos and build consensus even amongst like-minded people.

[jgraz]

54. Yes, it's not nearly enough. You need principles, passion and the talent to persuade.

Which is what I thought I was voting for in the fall.

My advice to you is to become a leader of something, and learn just how hard it is to overcome egos and build consensus even amongst like-minded people.

This is why I came down on your condescending, patronizing OP. Your "being a leader" shtick tells me you're a bit new to the leadership concept. Most of us with real leadership experience don't talk about it like we just found a shiny new penny.

[Yavin4]

56. You Choose To Attack Me Instead of Offering Some Real Experience

Again, it's easy to slash and burn than to actually build and contribute.

My OP just asked some very basic leadership questions and asked for your experience. Now, if you don't want to share that's all well and good, but if you want to hijack threads and make it into a personal pissing match, then I think that your true motives are suspect.

I think that you're just here to sow dissent and create friction within the DU community.

Most of us with real leadership experience don't talk about it like we just found a shiny new penny.

The best leaders that I have ever encountered enjoyed discussing their experiences as a leader because the most fulfilling aspect of being a leader to encourage others to do the same, not attack someone.

In the end, all you are is a disruptor. You exist solely to pick fights instead of being a constructive member of DU. I'm not going to respond to you in any posts because it's obvious that you are here solely to cause trouble and create tension.

[jgraz]

58. Oh noes! Someone disagreed with me on Teh Internets!!!1111

If you don't like people disagreeing with what you post, you should probably stop posting.

My advice to you is to develop a thicker skin.

[Raffi Ella]

33. Thanks, I appreciate your post.

I was very disappointed with President Obama tonight. I'm feeling less than optimistic- I don't know...He's just so charismatic that I guess I thought he would just do this, you know?

But after reading your post I realize it's not all in his power, that we are a big tent, that the blue dogs are blue because they won red areas and that it's not so easy for them (if they want to be re elected).

I think the President could've done a much better job tonight but after reading this OP I am feeling less angry at him. It gave me some much needed perspective.

We do need to support him, he needs us now more than ever. I'm not happy with tonights conference but I am not going to hammer him over it. He came to power at one of the worst times in Our history, he has a lot on his plate. If anything he needs us to rally and stand with him.

I wish Hillary would make a statement on this issue. I think she could really help but I guess that isn't part of her job now.

Where are all the Dem's on the Hill? Why haven't I heard more support from them!??

anyway, I'm rambling but this is the only thread I saw worth responding to so I'm saying it all here, lol-thanks for the post.

K&R

[Yavin4]

37. Leadership Is Very Difficult

I went from being a team member to being a leader, and I can tell you that my experience changed my perspective. I use to think that the team leaders had it easy. All they had to do is tell other people what to do. I learned that a big part of leadership is balancing egos, and working with people who have a hostile agenda against you. I didn't handle it very well, and things went South for me.

I'm learning a lot about leadership from Obama. I think that his political instincts are progressive, but I think that he has to work in the system. He is taking a major political gamble on healthcare. The easy political out for him would be to table it entirely. Instead, he's pushing hard for reform, and he's battling big moneyed interests against him.

[DatManFromNawlins]

39. I'll bite

Have any of you ever been in a leadership position in your lives? And, if you have:

Yes, multiple times.

Have you ever had to answer to stakeholders in your leadership that hated you and worked to undermine your leadership at every turn?

I once spearheaded a campaign to lead a group which basically had 3 separate groups which were all at odds with each other. I wouldn't call it hate, but I would consider them to be generally less than constructive. Keep in mind though, that most people who are leaders deal with others who are representing themselves. The people in Congress are representing their constituents and are right to do so, regardless of what anyone believes the "common good" is.

Had to deal with powerful forces who could move you out of your leadership?

Yes, they're called voters. My first leadership position was as an assistant to the leader of a group. I ended up running against the leader and won. Then I ran against the leader of the organization, and won, mostly because people knew that I would act as a leader to rein in the power which the position possessed. For example, I got term limits for leadership positions approved, and used my own seat of power as an example for others who might have otherwise been unwilling to vote for such an issue. They didn't want to lose their own positions via term limits, but they salivated at the prospect of gaining a seat that I was unlikely to lose had I run against them.

Had to form coalitions of groups that may not approve of what you're doing?

It's called compromise. You don't always get your way, regardless of how much of a mandate you think you possess. As a leader, you need to recognize the value of different points of view and try to come to a consensus which benefits the most people when you can, and use your leadership to make bold steps forward when you must, even if it rubs some the wrong way. Part of the reason why I believe Obama is going to have such a hard time getting movement on health care is that he came out and declared that he was going to get health care passed, compromise or not. You can either burn through political capital and good will like a candle or a firecracker, but once you've burned through it, it's hard to get back. Once you make such a declaration public, you can't put that genie back in the bottle and it will be spun whichever way is worth the most to those who oppose you. Obama is bright, but I don't find him to be brilliant in terms of how he's handled himself thus far.

One of the reasons I generally prefer a President to have been a Governor is that they already understand how the balance of power works between the legislative and executive branches. When Obama first took office, he looked like he was hovering in the background and bending to the wills of Pelosi and Reid. Then he had enough of that, and he started to become so loud that to many he seemed like another "great decider." He needs to keep in mind that while his office might be the highest in the land, his branch of government is not. You can only use the bully pulpit for so long before people perceive you to be a bully and start to tune you out.

Had to share your power with other groups?

Yes, to differing degrees. I have been a leader of a small group, leader of a large group, leader of the entire organization, and also a leader in an organization where my vote was worth double of the votes of the leaders who reported to someone else but whom I managed.

And, if you have experienced all of that, then what advice would you give Obama on how to deal with these issues? What would you advise Obama to do with Blue Dog Dems and the moneyed interests that dominate America?

Why do you think the Blue Dogs have a less valid opinion? Why do you think the "progressive" leaders are so much more righteous or correct?

Charlie Melancon and Mary Landrieu are both Blue Dogs, wouldn't you say? But they are from completely different ends of the earth when it comes down to how they represent their constituents, even if they generally come to the same conclusion. Landrieu does a generally good job of representing Louisiana, but she comes from a long line of patronage and has hands deep into the pockets of bankers and power brokers in the state. Melancon, on the other hand, doesn't have this at all, but honestly represents his district to the best of his ability.

If you were the representative of a conservative district where the vast majority are middle to upper middle class, generally have wonderful health care plans, as well as corporate pensions, how are you going to jump up in front of these people and tell them that they have to change their ways, when their ways WORK for them? Or even if you did and they refused, are you going to betray them and their vote?

If I were Obama, I'd push for term limits for Congress, even if I knew it wouldn't pass. I'd push for more campaign finance reform and embarrass the politicians who live and die off of lobbyist dollars. I'd start a 1 hour weekly call in show to have a direct dialogue with America instead of sitting behind a teleprompter or a podium and a group of reporters who ask the same canned questions over and over again. Prepared radio addresses will never match spontenaity. I'd demand that any health care bill that passed my desk would mandate that all government employees including ALL who serve in Congress be enrolled in that public health care plan. It is imperative for a leader to know what is in the hearts and minds of his constituents, and you cannot possibly get that in the White House echo chamber, just like it is paramount that your constituents believe that you're being fair with them. You can't lead them unless they know you are WITH them.

I'd privately push for any congressman or senator who was sitting on any of the committees which were involved with any of this financial catastrophe to be moved elsewhere and get new blood in there. Chris Dodd needs to be 10 miles away from anything dealing with the credit markets, and Barney Frank needs to never so much as utter the words "Fannie Mae" again. Being a leader is more than just beating down the other side; it is also about recognizing the weaknesses of your own position and turning them into strengths when you can.

America is fed up, more than anything, with the huge influence that corporations have over our government, yet I see very little action to directly change this course. If Obama wants to build more of that capital and build trust amongst those who might not trust him, he needs to do the right thing even if it's painful or embarrassing for some of his own. Asserting his independence is the first step towards getting those who have never trusted him to at least perk up their ears and start to listen. They want reform even more than they want the nebulous concept of change, so give it to them, and then you'll get your change.

[Yavin4]

41. Thank You for an Excellent, Well Thought Out Post

I agree with everything that you're saying, but the one major problem that any leader has to deal with is egos, esp. political egos.

Yes, it's easy to say move out Barney Frank or Chris Dodd, but these guys has held elected office for years, and they can get easily re-elected. Pushing them out, even if successful, would mean hell to pay down the road.

Term limits also steps on the egos of the congresspeople. Term limits was at the heart of Gingrich's Contract with America, but that was quickly dumped.

Finally, I challenged your notion that the average American is as fed up with corporate influence as you say. I think that the average, non-political American wants the best possible deal for themselves. Back in '93, a lot of Americans got their healthcare from their employers, and they didn't want reform. In the 16 years hence, healthcare benefits are disappearing from the jobs that are being created, and that's why this issue is reaching the breaking point.

I think that what Obama should do is actually take a page from Bush/Cheney. Keep talking about the healthcare crisis that's upon us. Bring up the costs of employer provided healthcare and how it's disappearing. Keep the heat on congress and don't let them go home until this crisis is resolved.

[opihimoimoi]

43. no real critics....mostly armchair cybersnipers and Diluters

[Autumn]

46. I have had a lot of Presidents

going back to Eisenhower. Very few of them got a pass on the criticism. As to the issues you raise Obama is smart enough to handle them if he chooses . Or he can chose to go along with them. Time will tell.

[Deja Q]

51. Using that logic, Roger Ebert should be railed at because he never made a movie...

Yet he's one of, if not THE, highest rated movie critic.

So one needn't be a leader to point out what they think won't work.

[Yavin4]

53. Actually,Roger Ebert Was Involved In Making A Movie

He wrote the screenplay for Beyond the Valley of the Dolls.

But I do agree with you that you don't have to be a leader to point out what does not work. However, having experience as a leader does broaden your perspective and gives your criticism more creedence and makes it more constructive.

I strongly advise you to become a leader of something. Organize an event or lead a group, esp. where you have to share power with others and build consensus.

You need to experience it first hand, and once you do, it will give you a better perspective on Obama's leadership.

[ItNerd4life]

55. Actually, many people in business deal with the issues you stated.

I'm in IT, I deal with it all the time. The mistakes Obama are making are many including:

1) Doesn't say if this covers illegal aliens.
2) Doesn't say if there are other free market options to try, like insurance companies being able to offer catastrophic insurance.
3) Isn't honest about the long term. The plan will force insurance companies too close because they can't compete against government. Forcing many people into unemployment.
4) Isn't going at this in phases, it's all or nothing. Why not a phased approach? That's what many businesses do.
5) Isn't giving multiple choices and trying different approaches to see what works best.
6) His cost estimates are a joke. No government program has ever cost what they expect, it's always worse, much worse.
7) WHY DOESN'T CONGRESS HAVE THE SAME PLAN THAT THEY WANT US TO HAVE?

You have to convince people who disagree with you that this is the best option. Instead he says he wants it done by August. That makes people feel like it's being crammed down their throats.

I am being serious when I say you asked some good questions and I've hoped I've provided insight in how I deal with people who disagree with me.

[Yavin4]

57. I Work In IT Environment As Well

In my environment, I am transitioning the stakeholders from manual labor intensive processes to automated processes, and I am meeting intense resistance because, in all honesty, I threaten people's jobs. I have to deal with factions of people who are working against me all of the time. I have to deal with egos. I have to deal with entrenched political interests.

When you say, "You have to convince people who disagree with you that this is the best option.", there are people who will never agree with you because by disagreeing with you, their own personal interests are better served. Sen. Max Baucus will get MORE campaign contributions by disrupting the President's agenda instead of working for it.

The reason why Obama wants it done by August is because he knows that the Fall and winter months are the heavy campaign fund raising seasons for 2010.

[TheKentuckian]

60. If there were other free market oriented solutions

then why have they not come up over the last 50-70 years of this thing spiraling into the toilet? There is no free market fix because the market is working properly by increasing profits and negating stockholder risk. The market is not capable of getting us out of the whole it has dug. The market is in all effect the antithesis of how to handle this problem.

Why can't the up to know supposedly god like market compete against a government plan and why should anyone give a shit if it can't? Most of the people you theorize will be out are still going to be needed no matter who is paying the bill and public option allows this to happen gradually so that those people can be moved around. I understand this argument against instant transition to single payer but against the option? Seems strawmanish to me. The industry would be around for quite a number of years before it deservedly collapsed under it's own weight.

What kind of phases are you looking at? Phase what? The deaths, reduction in quality of life, the massive whole in the budget, the near 20% of our GNP, the people enslaved by their jobs due to fear of losing coverage, or the ruined financial health of millions?

He should be telling Congress to look at their benefit offerings and make it clear that he demands the same coverage and options for the people.

[kjackson227]

59. K & R. Great post