I Am Not Black - But If I Was Arrested For Trying To Enter My Own Home

[TomCADem]

...and I had provided identification showing that I lived at that home, then yes, I would think that the police officer in question acted "stupidly." Maybe there was a racial profiling issue at first, who knows, but once I produced identification that showed that I lived at my house, then it is obvious that the police officer is in the wrong. The "stupid" comes in when you STILL arrest the person AFTER you know that there was mistake about the person breaking into their own home.

[MercutioATC]

1. I don't agree with the arrest, but that's not WHY Gates was arrested.

From all the available information at this time, Gates was arrested because he was allegedly verbally combative. It may be a bullshit reason, but he was NOT arrested for "entering his own home".

[AuntPatsy]

3. I call bullshit on your attempting to go thread to thread excusing the behavior

of the officers involved....with the available information it is fact that his race had everthing to do with his arrest

[MercutioATC]

17. Soo you believe that a white man who acted in the same way would have been treated differently?

In you opinion, was the alleged racism because the officers saw a black man and assumed he was an intruder or did the officers just decide that they wanted to mess with a black man who was legally in his house?

[AuntPatsy]

20. i know so

[MercutioATC]

23. We have different definitions of "know"...but everybody is entitled to an opinion.

Mine differs.

[okieinpain]

74. how could you know so. n/t.

[MadMaddie]

51. An older white man with a cane in his home would not have

been treated the same way. Let's be realisitic, this was an affluent area and the unwritten rules are different.

The officer should have been astute enough to look at the DL and figure out that it was the mans home. The officer was wrong.

[MercutioATC]

55. This is a Harvard-owned house in Cambridge.

I'm sure the police are quite used to seeing affluent blacks.

The officer didn't assume Gates was an intruder because he was black, nor did he arrest him because he was black.

He asked for ID because he was responding to a breaking and entering complaint and he arrested Gates (justifiably or not...and I believe not) because Gates acted like an ass.

[jefferson_dem]

63. "....because Gates acted like an ass."

...because he was about to be arrested for breaking into his own fucking home, most likely because of the color of his skin.

It's a truly amazing line of defense you're propping up here.

[okieinpain]

75. I believe gates could have handled himself better. he might have been

tired from the trip, or the officers attitude could have pissed him off. either way gates could have been the bigger man. that's what I teach my kids.

by the way to be really, really, honest I've gotten into it with an officer about not having on my seat belt, and I got a extra ticket for making an illegal lane change, extra 150 bucks because I didn't follow my own advice.

[mkultra]

85. shockingly, "acting like an ass" is not illegal.

Once gates showed his ID, the cops legal duties ceased.

[Fire1]

88. BINGO!!! n/t

[MadMaddie]

95. In the officers report he said he knew who Gates was

and he knew whose house it was, that should have been the end of it.

Gates was arrested at his home for disorderly conduct. So now in post 9/11 America if you dare question a cop you get arrested? If you don't show deferrence to the police you can get arrested?

[quiller4]

81. Yes I do. A white man would not have been taken into custody. n/t

[babylonsister]

22. You rock, Aunt Patsy!

:thumbsup:

[xultar]

86. Where in that person's post did they excuse the behavior?

[countingbluecars]

5. How dare a black man speak

up for himself to a white cop. Surely a reason to be arrested. It's about race!

[sandnsea]

6. Oooh, don't ask a cop for his badge number

That's verbally combative.

Did you read his account of what happened? Google it up.

If I had been arrested every time I mouthed off at a cop, I'd still be in jail. Complete Bullshit. Start to finish. I am shocked that anybody defends cops who act this way, anywhere, to anybody.

[okieinpain]

76. but they do. I've also been confronted by black police officers too.

I think a lot of cops are just asses period.

[sandnsea]

82. Never had a cop treat me like that

And I am *not* a compliant citizen. I don't think I've had an interaction with cops where I wasn't bitchy. They've never even threatened me. I think they might treat men differently or something, but cops also seem to treat people differently in small towns. Maybe because they never know whose kid or wife they're stopping, I don't know.

[okieinpain]

84. right cop at the right time. I had a cop tell me stuff can happen to me

while i was working on a school copier. I think he was sweet on the school secretary and felt like I was being to nice to her, and this was a black police officer. after he said that she asked him to walk out into the hallway and he didn't come back while I was there.

so yes, the police period has some pretty stupid people in their ranks.

and I'll swear on a thousand, zillion bibles that this is a true story.

[sandnsea]

87. Oh I completely believe you

I didn't say cops don't act like jackasses. I've had a few think they were going to "go there" with me, it just doesn't work. I just look at them like they're nuts and laugh at their antics. I'm a harmless woman, get serious, let's get this problem resolved and get on with our lives. They don't know what to do with me. Like I said though, I think they might react differently to men, it's more of a challenge to their egos or something. My husband always jokes with them and that seems to work well for him.

[BlooInBloo]

7. Ooooh - "combative" now was he? HAHAHAAHAA!!!!

[baldguy]

8. Gates was arrested because he was black.

Once he produced his ID for the officer, there was no longer any probable cause & no suspicion of B&E. THAT'S WHEN IT SHOULD HAVE ENDED.

[TomCADem]

16. No, Gates Was Arrested Because The Officer Was An Idiot and...

...did not know when to back-off. Racial profiling is acting on stereotypes. However, once you see the ID, and know the person lives there, then the police officer should have gotten off of Gates' lawn and apologized. Not doing so, was stupid. It may have been motivated intially by racism, but going forward and arresting a homeowner was just stupid.

[democracy1st]

61. sounds like a birther to me

[indepat]

79. The only time I have ever had a gun (actually guns) pulled on me was when I was walking out of my

house one evening in Columbus, OH in the early eighties. The somewhat-crazy neighborhood watchdog had observed a truck sitting in the street in front of our house with its lights on and motor running (an auctioneer had delivered three massive chairs we had purchased earlier in the day and was having "car-trouble" with the rented truck). When I stepped out the front door, several of Columbus' finest, with shiny pistols drawn and pointed at me, were chanting in effect, don't make any funny moves. I was not scared but instantly realized I could be killed on the spot so I kept reiterating, "this is my house, I live here." About that time, my wife came to the door and produced my federal enforcement credentials. The police apologized, withdrawing their weapons and stating they had received a report of a possible burglary in process. I later wondered how that episode might have played out had I been a person of color. :D

[RaleighNCDUer]

9. You know what? In your own home you are allowed to be as verbally

combative as you wish with ANYONE you wish. It's YOUR HOME.

Technically, the officer following him INTO the house against his express wishes was a violation of the 4th amendment - and the 2nd Amendment nuts would agree that he had the legal right to defend himself against an armed intruder with lethal force.

He just used words.

[TomCADem]

10. Verbally Combatitive? Man! Right Wingers Would Be Arrested Left and Right!

If a police officer cannot handle a resident getting ticked off at them because he gives them a hard time about entering their own home, then that person is not really fit to be a police officer. "Verbally combative?" What the hell happened to free speech? Shoot, if "verbally combative" was the threshold, then the government could shut down tea bag rallies throughout the nation. Limbaugh would be lead away in handcuffs after each show.

[Political Tiger]

11. Even still, there was no reason to arrest him.

People are allowed to be "verbally combative" in their own home, especially when they are innocent of any crimes. Once the cop saw the Professor was upset the cop should have just left....he really had no business staying there once it was established there was no crime committed.

Since I wasn't there I don't know if this incident was racially motivated or not, but it was the cop, not Gates, who was the source of the problem. He, as the President said, acted "stupidly."

[TomCADem]

12. Exactly! When Is Rush Limbaugh Not "Verbally Combatitive"?

I am just saying.

[Political Tiger]

15. .....and if anyone deserves to be arrested, it's that disgusting blob!

:rofl:

[MercutioATC]

14. And that's exactly what I stated.

...when I said it might be a bullshit reason.

My point is that it's not accurate to say that he was arrested for entering his own home.

[Political Tiger]

19. I know. I was just expounding on your point. n/t

[tblue37]

42. I wonder how that cop feels now, having been called out by the President of the United States

for "acting stupidly." Talk about an embarrassing mark on one's record!

[alcibiades_mystery]

18. "Contempt of Cop"

Many police officers seem to believe that this is a crime.

They call it "disorderly conduct."

[Hugabear]

78. Especially when the arrestee is black, eh?

Seems like many cops have a much shorter fuse, and are much quicker to arrest, when the person they're dealing with is black.

[havocmom]

24. Asking an officer who was dead ass wrong for name and badge#

That is not combative, that is your right. Then the officer refused to provide information an citizen is entitled to. Hell, ANY sane person would be a tad "verbally combative".

Good officers know how to take a righteous vent. If they can't, they do not have the temperament for the job. The cop was not doing it right and went into defensive mode because of it. Arrest was attempt at CYA.

Good cops want idiot cops rooted out. Bad cops endanger all cops.

[tabatha]

30. He was not.

He repeatedly asked the officer for his name and badge number, in his own home.
The officer probably thought it was beneath him to reply.

If that is grounds for arrest, then something is wrong.

[MercutioATC]

37. The officer states that he gave Gates his name.

I'm not taking the officer's word as fact, but your assumption is a matter of contention.

[lxlxlxl]

31. why is being 'verbally abusive' a reason to drag someone to jail?

it's not. cops can walk away. it was the guy's house.

[MercutioATC]

32. Did you even read my post? You're agreeing with me.

I said that it might be a "bullshit reason"...


...but Gates was NOT arrested for "entering his own home".

[KingFlorez]

33. I never knew being "verbally combative" could get you arrested

Interesting logic.

[MercutioATC]

36. Then you've been unaware of "disorderly conduct" laws.

They exist.

[TomCADem]

58. Disorderly Conduct Charges Often Leads To First Amendment Issues...

Particularly where the person being arrested is not violent, is not using profanity, and is merely expressing an opinion. Now, in Gate's case, Gates was on his own property in his own house. I would really be worried if police were given discretion to arrest people just because they were upset after the police officer mistakenly suggested that they had broken into their own house. I remember working as a salesperson, and I've dealt with really annoying customers, but guess what? That's part of the job. With a police officer, you have an even greater responsibility to keep your emotions in check, particularly when you just wrongfully accused a homeowner of breaking into their own home.

[WinkyDink]

65. WITHIN ONE'S OWN DOMICILE? Not drunk, not playing loud music to annoy, no firecrackers,...?!

Show me that law. The cop just said it as a catch-all.

[KingFlorez]

83. Nice try, but that doesn't apply in this case at all

[Ysabela]

45. Being an uppity black man is always a valid excuse for arresting someone.

Sarcasm intended.

[MercutioATC]

53. So has acting like an ass when police are investigating a complaint.

Regardless of your race.

It's not "right" but it's accurate.

[WinkyDink]

64. "Verbally combative" WITHIN ONE'S OWN HOME? NOTICE the charges were DROPPED.

[CBGLuthier]

67. "loud talking" on his own porch

Just call it uppity and be done with it.

[Teaser]

69. If a cop comes on my property, I can mouth off to them all I want

and they can't do dick about it. And then I can ask them to leave, and if they don't have a warrant, they'd better get their ass off my property.

[harmonicon]

72. he was arrested for being black (nt)

[JTFrog]

73. What a surprise coming from you.

Not.

[Hugabear]

77. Congrats for defending such blatant racism

One might expect to find such strident defense of racism on FR, but not here. How many times have racist cops used "verbally combative" as an excuse to arrest a black or Hispanic person?

[quiller4]

80. and he had every reason to demand name and badge number

from the cop. It is not illegal to raise your voice. The disturbing the peace charge was bogus. If it had happened to me I'd be planning a significant lawsuit. I know the mayor apologized but in my view that is not enough.

[Political Tiger]

2. That's right. Once it was determined he was in his own house the cop had no business

sticking around.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

4. At that stage he was trespassing

[Political Tiger]

13. Yes he was. Why would the cop stick around other than to stir up trouble? n/t

[MercutioATC]

21. Words have meaning. The officer was NOT "trespassing"

until the time that it had been proved that Gates provided identification AND Gates requested that the officer leave the house.

From the statements, the officer left the house without even being asked to.

[babylonsister]

Did he ask Gates to come out before or after he put the cuffs on him

and charged him? :eyes:

[MercutioATC]

28. Gates left the house on his own before he was cuffed.

...at least, that's what Gates says.

[Fire1]

90. STOP TRYING AND FAILING DISMALLY TO

RATIONALIZE WRONG!!! Anyway you cut it, THAT FASCIST RACIST POS WAS WRONG!! PERIOD.

[angee_is_mad]

25. Here's the deal

the man just got back from China. He has a bad leg, so he was probably physically tired and wore out. He comes home and his door is jammed. His limo driver helps him get the door open.

Here comes the cops. They questioned him like he has broken into his own damn house. Remember he is tired and sore and he probably wasn't in the mood for some bullshit. He probably got agitated and the cop wanted to put this UPPITY NEGRO in his place after Gates showed him his IDs.

At the end of the day, the cop is trained to keep a COOL HEAD. When Prof. Gates showed him his ID, the cop should have apologize for the inconvenience and left. But no, the officer had to show this negro who was in charge and arrested his ass to bring him down a peg or two.

Quick question. How many thieves rob a house in a limo? Curious minds want to know.

[uponit7771]

26. ...not only that, how many come to the door when the police knock on it!?

...the more I think about it the more the Cambridge cops sound like assholes.

[angee_is_mad]

29. and the neighbor

she was able to see two black men breaking into a house, but didn't see the damn limo in front of the house?

This is an upper middle class neighborhood, but I would still think that having a limo at your house isn't an everyday occurrence and would have stuck in her mind.

[tblue37]

44. The "limo" didn't have to be a real limo. Even here in Lawrence, Kansas, the

service that drives you to the airport in a van is called a "limousine" service. When I get home from a trip, I land in Kansas City, and then I usually take "the limo" back to my apartment in Lawrence, Kansas. If I had to have help getting into my home and the driver helped me, I would say, "I asked the limo driver to help me," but the vehicle would just be a van, not a limousine.

[Fire1]

91. But just so happened, IN THIS CASE, it was a LIMOUSINE

AND THANK GOD HE WASN'T IN GOD DAMNED KANSAS!!!!:mad:

[tblue37]

43. And don't forget,, When Gates came to the door, he was still talking on the phone--

just another sign the officer could have read to indicate that the man was in his own home.

[dorkulon]

46. You've got to admit, it would be a great cover. ;-)

Agreed on all points, BTW. My lawyer told me tonight that Disorderly Conduct is also known to criminal lawyers as "Contempt of Cop" -- mouth off to the cops and that's the charge they'll haul you in for, just for pissing them off. This applies to anyone, though, of any race, especially if they're poor.

[glitch]

62. Doesn't anyone ever sue for false arrest anymore? nt

[Starry Messenger]

27. Thank you!

This whole thing was so fail.

[deep1]

34. Thank you!

Thank you, and happy you see it that way. It was plain old stupidity with a healthy dose of racism and arrogance.

It seems that certain posters on this board want Obama to just be meek and not speak of such things while they are the same ones advocating dialogue on gay marriage and rights! What a double standard that we can't speak of racial issues and police abuse of the law.

[Bluenorthwest]

71. The only poster defending those racist cops on this thread

also attacks GLBT rights threads. What you say is a lie told to support your own divisive objectives in life.

[Kdillard]

35. Seriously it turned a minor situation into a bigger deal than it needed to be.

I completely understand why the Professor got upset.

[angee_is_mad]

38. He has a bum leg

he just got back from an international flight and comes home to a door that is jammed. That is enough to irritate anybody and then comes Cambridge's Finest.

[Kdillard]

41. Yeah I was watching CNN and Soledad Obrien mentioned that

about his bad leg. I don't know what this Officer thought he could gain by escalating the situation besides being on a power trip. If he were being assaulted or the Professor had refused to show id that was one thing but this was a situation that clearly called for "letting it go".

[Fire1]

92. 'The Professor' is not the only one upset. Have you ANY

idea how often this happens ON A DAILY FUCKIN BASIS to people who are NOT 'Professors??????????????'

[Prism]

39. Seems like a-hole cop syndrome

The kind who will arrest you just to show you who's boss. The police arriving and asking for ID was reasonable since a neighbor reported a break-in. However, once innocence was established, the police should've done a "Sorry for the trouble, have a good night." Even if the professor was tired, cranky, and belligerant, the police should've understood he felt like he was being accosted in his own home.

Instead, a-hole cop syndrome kicked in, and it's "Mouth off to me, will you? Well how about I just arrest you for disorderly?!"

And that is how civil suits get started.

The city was right to apologize. The arresting officer could do with a bit of training as well.

[dorkulon]

47. My lawyer says Disorderly Conduct is AKA "Contempt of Cop"

Piss them off and that's the charge you'll get.

[Prism]

50. Yep

Sometimes it's justified. I've seen police using ample discretion where they could conceivable arrest someone and won't (think outside bar scenarios). But once someone runs their mouth, out come the cuffs. In those situations, sometimes the person is just begging for it.

Doesn't seem to be near the case here, though.

[noamnety]

40. Police were called to our house when my daugher was breaking in.

She locked herself out, tried to jimmy open a door, set off the alarm.

Police came, she explained. They left. She showed them no ID at all - she didn't have any here to show.

[Ysabela]

48. I bet I can guess what race your daughter is... n/t

[noamnety]

52. And I'd bet you'd guess right.

I figured it would be redundant to post it.

[orwell]

49. The same thing happened to me about 25 years ago...

...A neighbor called the cops because she saw me going through an open window in my house. I had forgotten my keys.

When the cops came about 10 minutes later they walked in through an open back door and saw me SMOKING A JOINT!

They asked me to show them some ID to prove I lived in the house. Freaked out as hell, I put down the joint and showed them my ID.

The cops said thank you and LEFT!

It was a very nice neighborhood in the Oakland Hills, part of the San Francisco Bay Area.

I'm glad it wasn't Cambridge...

[MercutioATC]

57. Did you tell them that they were only asking you for ID because they were white and you were black?

If you had, the outcome might have been different...whether that's right or not.

You were cool and immediately complied with their requests, and they were cool and overlooked the pot.

[wisteria]

54. I see nothing wrong with the police answering a call of a possible break in.

That is their job. What seemed unnecessary, is the arrest after the professor provided pictured identification.

[MercutioATC]

56. But they asked a BLACK man for ID in his OWN HOME!!!

That makes it racist!

:sarcasm:

[TomCADem]

59. No...

Just stupid for letting their emotions get the better of them, and not simply apologizing and leaving. I actually don't see it as a race issue, because even a racist should understand that hauling in someone based on a disorderly conduct charge based on what the person said to you in anger when the call was a break-in, which turned out to be wrong, will not stick.

Even if Gates was white, the arrest would have still have been stupid on the officer's part.

[MercutioATC]

60. I agree. The arrest was unjustified, but it wasn't based on race.

...at least that's what I consider to be a reasonable conclusion with the information we have now.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

89. Which is completely consistent with Obama's statement.

There is trust put in police officers that they will not abuse the authority that is given to them by the people. So the argument is that both Gates and the cop acted like jerks? Fine. But only the cop chose to misuse his authority to arrest someone because his feelings were hurt.

[Fire1]

94. And YOU are in denial to put it mildly. n/t

[WinkyDink]

66. Race was everything. It was the impetus. Two words: Amadou Diallo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amadou_Diallo

It was racism from the gitgo, and the cop threw up other charges to see if they'd stick---to COVER HIS A**.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

68. From Kos- Diary w/Gate's account & a picture

This happened at 12:30 IN THE AFTERNOON. A lot of people seem to think it happened late at night.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/7/22/756574/-Henry-Louis-Gates-Arrest,-In-His-Own-Words

[Zen Democrat]

70. To arrest someone for "disorderly conduct" in their own home .... that's STUPID!

Apparently the policeman asked him to step outside on the porch, where several other officers were waiting, and placed him under arrest on his porch BECAUSE disorderly conduct in not an offense in one's own home. This was beyond STUPID!

The police may have dropped charges, but if it were me, I'd be suing a police department. This is one clear teachable moment for the New Haven officers.

[kestrel91316]

93. Gates wasn't even arrested for trying to enter his own home, lol.

He was arrested for being an "uppity n----r". And good for him. We need a few more.

That cop needs his clock cleaned.