Here's a third way on the Gates thing a) it was overt racism b) it was not overt racism or c):

[Political Heretic]

a statement like this:

c) given our history and social attitudes toward race I would be surprised if race didn't affect this situation - whether it was overt or not is something I can't say. I don't know what when through the mind of the officer. But I do know the narratives and stereotypes that continue to pervade or culture, and which none of us can completely escape. While it might be technically allowed to arrest someone out of their own home for speaking obnoxiously to an officer, I think the decision to do so was pretty stupid. And its a good thing that each of us question whether internalized or overt attitudes about race could have influenced that decision in any way. In the end however, only the officer will ever know for sure.

[DarthDem]

1. Agree

Amd it was also stupid for Gates to berate the officer. Just go inside your house. Dumb - - particularly from a Harvard professor.

So I'll take (d) - - everyone involved behaved stupidly. Happens all the time.

[MercutioATC]

2. "d) I don't believe is was racism, covert or overt"

I believe that the officer would have responded in exactly the same way if the only difference was that Gates was white.

[Political Heretic]

3. I didn't include that "answer" because it is historically ignorant and sociologically idiotic.

:shrug:

[MercutioATC]

4. Your choices assume that racism is ALWAYS a factor in ALL decisions.

I disagree.

I'm not discounting the historical reality of racism, not do I question that it still affects us today.

I do not, however, believe that ALL encounters between people of different races are, by nature, "racist".

[Political Heretic]

5. You can disagree all you want, without having sociological research or historical evidence

on your side.

By the way saying "I do not, however, believe that ALL encounters between people of different races are, by nature, "racist" is a straw man re-framing of what I've actually said.

[MercutioATC]

6. "All interactions between people of different races have an inherently racial component"

Is that more accurate?

[Political Heretic]

13. racial does not equal racist

[LooseWilly]

11. So you pick D because you don't believe race played a part...

... because you believe that the white cop wouldn't've been willing to give his name and badge number to a white professor either?... or because you believe that the white cop would've been just as miffed and just as eager to arrest a white professor who accused him of wanting his ID and not being willing to give his name and badge number in return because the professor in question was white?...

"It's because I'm White!! Isn't it??"

"Thank you for complying with my earlier request. You're under arrest."

Yeah, maybe you're right... maybe, "if the only difference was that Gates was white" it woudn't've made any difference whatsoever.

And, maybe the birthers would've been just as vocal about John McCain having been born in the Panama Canal Zone, had he won the election... :tinfoilhat:

[BlooInBloo]

7. It's funny how hard white folks will work to avoid calling other white folks racist...

WOOT! WHITE UNITY!!!

:rofl:

[Number23]

10. ha!

:thumbsup:
:rofl:

[Political Heretic]

14. What "white folks" are you refering too?

[bliss_eternal]

8. When Rodney King was beaten w/in an inch of his life...

the officers involved cited, "procedure" and "necessary force."

So, tell me again how "only the officer knows for sure." :eyes:

[Political Heretic]

15. Sure, I'd be happy to: you need to add the words "in this case."

In this case, only the officer knows for sure, because as far as I know there are no other witnesses.

Little different. Also, what an officer "claims" publicly and what he "knows" in his heart are two difference things.

[bliss_eternal]

18. i see.

too bad you can't (or won't).

[Political Heretic]

19. I see just fine.

So do you.

[EFerrari]

9. Only the officer ever knows for sure? Seriously?

[Political Heretic]

16. You changed "know" to knows" and make the phrase sound like a generalization about all officers.

That's something you did, not what I said.

This officer, will be the only one to ever know for sure what was going on in his heart at the time, because unfortunately it is only his word against the word of the accuser, there are no witnesses that I am aware of that can shed any additional light on his motives or actions.

That's a far cry from saying what you suggested which is that only "the officer" (as a general noun) ever knows (in any context) for sure - which is not something that I said.

[EFerrari]

20. Then I misunderstood what you were saying. nt

[TexasProgresive]

12. Not having been there - I can imagine it was over reaction

Perhaps Gates tired and irritable from his trip snapped at the cop who reacted badly, or perhaps the cop was rude to Gates and that started it. What we might have here is a case of 2 thin skinned individuals who behaved poorly. With the few facts available I get the sense that the cop needs some training in how to defuse a situation and not be a detonator. There are entirely too many cops who feel that they have to prove and defend their authority and right to use power. No law abiding citizen should have to fear the police but many do.

[alcibiades_mystery]

17. I think that's correct

:thumbsup: