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Empowerer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 06:30 PM
Original message
A perspective on Professor Gates' arrest
Edited on Thu Jul-23-09 06:30 PM by Empowerer
The events leading up to Professor Gates' arrest, the arrest itself and reaction thereto - from the President and others - cannot be fully understood without considering it within the larger context. Unfortunately, many people not only don't understand that context but refuse to even consider that there is one.

So, I will try my best to explain it because I think that if we try to see a different perspective, we may be able to better understand where Prof. Gates was coming from.

First, let me make one point that some may find difficult and even offensive, but it is true. Stick with me here: I am presenting this from an African-American perspective in hopes that white people who may not fully understand may be able to consider a point of view they had not previously considered. However, I am not going to try to present the white American perspective to help African-Americans understand because, frankly, black Americans already are fully aware of and understand the white American perspective (also known in American culture as "the American perspective"). It's a rarely mentioned but nonetheless unassailable fact that black folks have always intimately known white folks in this country, while the opposite has not always been and may still not be the case. We are fully immersed in and aware of how white people think, what their various experiences, opinions, strengths and weaknesses are. We live it every day, we're exposed to it every day, we're surrounded by it every day, we see it and hear it in the media every day. So we get it.

Now, let's do us.

I don't know what Professor Gates' personal experiences have been. But, based on my own experience and that of my African-American friends and colleagues - especially black men - I have no doubt that he has also experienced specific and glaring instances of discrimination and profiling, experiences that are not commonly encountered by white Americans.

Professor Gates was born in 1950 in West Virginia, below the Mason Dixon line, before Brown, before the Civil Rights Act, before the Voting Rights Act.

He has spent his life living in a country that often treats black men as servants or criminals no matter how distinguished and respectable they may be.

He lives in a country in which my teenaged brothers were regularly stopped and often yanked out of and occasionally thrown spread eagle onto the hood of their car by police officers who didn't believe that car really belonged to their parents, parents who had to constantly remind them not to say or do anything that would cause them to get shot while escaping - something that never happened to our white classmates living in the same affluent community.

He lives in a country in which a top aide to the President of the United States - like my brothers back in the day - was yanked out of HIS car, frisked, harassed and humiliated in front of his wife - also a top aide to the President of the United States.

He lives in a country in which a friend of mine, a young African-American lawyer, Harvard grad practicing with top firm in the city, standing in a courtroom dressed in an Armani suit and carrying an expensive leather briefcase was "mistaken" for one of the hookers being brought in for arraignment - by the assistant prosecutor.

He lives in a country in which my cousin, an African-American who looks like he could be Hispanic, was detained and when he tried to leave, beaten on the sidewalk, by store personnel who assumed he was using a stolen credit card because it bore an "American" name.

He lives in a country in which racial profiling is a real, not an imagined problem. He lives in a country in which blacks are still all-too-often profiled, suspected as criminals, assumed to be intellectually inferior, and treated as something different, slightly exotic and somewhat untrustworthy - and when we suggest that this is the case, we are just big whiners "playing the race card."

He lives in a country in which for years I refused to set foot in Boston because of terrible memories of regularly being called "nigger" whenever I walked around in the city during my college days.

He lives in a country in which my distinguished, accomplished and prominent father is STILL handed claim checks and asked to fetch parked cars and gestured over to tables and asked to refill champagne glasses at formal dinners by white people who have been conditioned all of their lives to assume that an 80-year-old black man dressed in a tuxedo (even when every white man in the vicinity is also dressed in a tuxedo) must be there to serve them.

This was the context against which Professor Gates pushed back. This was the context in which President Obama, a black man who - whether he talks about it or not - has more likely than not also experienced similar humilitations and who knows that, if he weren't the President of the United States but instead a colleague of Professor Gates who was treated this way in his own house, he, too, would have been hauled off to jail.

I don't know what Professor Gates' experiences have been, but I know the experiences that my friends, family and I have endured. And against that backdrop, Professor Gates' reaction to the police behavior is perfectly understandable. Different people react differently to such treatment. Some people try to ignore it. My father tends to just shake his head and feel sorry for the perpetrator - especially when he knows he ruined their whole day by telling them who he is and watching them slink away, mortified. And some people, like Professor Gates, get mad.

One need not have endured these experiences to at least appreciate and respect the fact that most black people have. It only exacerbates the racial divide in this country when people refuse to consider this larger context but instead dismiss Professor Gates and the countless blacks who have stepped forward in recent days to say, "Yes, I understand. The same thing happened to me . . ."

There's much you can learn from our voices and stories and histories.

We're telling you something.

Please listen.

Please learn.


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Political Tiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. K & R! n/t
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musicblind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
2. The police officer was likely lying about Gates reaction to his behavior
or at the least exaggerating. Police think they are owed all this respect and get their panties in a wad if they don't get it.
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whoneedstickets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Exactly, Gates' crime was not being appropriately deferential...
Our 'public servants' the police have become conditioned to expect, and now demand, servility in the population. Anyone who dares to not grovel in the presence of their authority is a threat to public order. The days of the humble, human(e) cop are over. This is reinforced by the code of silence and the slap-on-the-wrist disciplinary commissions who never hold these guys accountable.

examples:

http://brainz.org/30-cases-extreme-police-brutality-and-blatant-misconduct/
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
72. As I posted earlier on this topic, you don't have to be African-American to
experience the arrogance of the police. Just try living in a poor neighborhood, maybe one in which the majority of people are of color or are immigrants. Even if you are white, you will suffer from overbearing police officers. And it is especially bad if one or more family members have just a trace of a foreign accent. That's a sure tip-off that the person who "talks funny" may be a criminal -- even if the person who talks like that called the police in the first place. The police are just on edge the moment they deal with certain people who live in certain neighborhoods or who are a certain color.
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watrwefitinfor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
3. K & R
You write movingly and well. And I like your name.

Welcome to DU.

Wat




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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
5. We live in a country where 25 to 30 percent
of the population is very very racist. And,unfortunately, a good percentage of these racists are also of limited intelligence, have a strong authoritarian attitude, and are quick tempered. We call those people cops.

Prof Gates is lucky he wasn't cuffed and THEN shot.

Think that's an outrageous thing to say? Ask Oscar Grant III... oh, wait, you can't, a police officer (one of three holding Mr. Grant to the ground even though he was NOT resisting arrest) SHOT HIM IN THE BACK while Mr. Grant was handcuffed.
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Uzybone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
6. the white American perspective (also known in American culture as "the American perspective")
Excellent OP.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
7. Thank you and rec'd. nt
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PretzelWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
8. perfect. this is very good perspective.
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Klukie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
9. I am not only listening and learning...
but I will spread the word. Thanks for the much needed perspective.
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busymom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
10. Look...I'm a white woman,
Edited on Thu Jul-23-09 07:44 PM by busymom
so take what I'm saying with a grain of salt..because clearly my opinion is colored by my whiteness <sigh>

But....If I had to break into my house because I lost my key or whatever, it was reported, and black officers came out to the scene and asked me for ID, I would immediately present it out of respect for them and the office that they hold. I would never yell at an officer.

BTW...a black police officer saved my life when I was 5 years old....and the individual trying to end my life? white...

Just a little perspective...
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Whooosh, the OP went right over your head, imo
Please read Dr. Gates words on this, it may, just may educate you as to the facts of the case if nothing else.

Link to Dr. Gates words:

http://www.theroot.com/views/skip-gates-speaks?page=0,1

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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. You are correct. It would've been racist for cops NOT to take the report seriously.
I've had to try to break into my home a couple of times. If a neighbor had reported a possible break-in, and cops arrived and asked me for proof I lived here, I'd thank them for responding so quickly, and I'd GLADLY AND IMMEDIATELY show them proof.

These are the people who PROTECT our property. They were following a CALL-IN of a possible break-in. They didn't just show up to hassle someone.

If Gates has a history that causes him not to want to respond to authorities, he needs therapy. Our policemen, our courts, our judges, all of our officials have jobs to do. If we expect them to do their jobs, we simply have to do certain reasonable things, when requested.

I WANT my neighbors to call in possible break-ins at my house. I WANT the police to follow up on those calls immediately.

BTW...who was the neighbor? Anyone know? Why didn't she know that Gates lived there? Do the people in that ritzy neighborhood not know each other? I find that strange.
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Empowerer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. I have heard no one, NO ONE claim that the cops should not have responded to the report or gone to
Prof. Gates' home.

But once they got there and confirmed that the report was wrong and that Prof. Gates was indeed the owner of the house, they should have left.

But beyond that, Sergeant Crowley - especially considering he was supposedly a "racial profiling expert" - should have IMMEDIATELY surmised that the report was not only wrong, but that it was possibly the result of blatant racial profiling by the complainant and that Professor Gates had been placed in a very difficult and embarrassing and frustrating position by finding the police on his doorstep and having to prove he was not a criminal and that, given the context and history I described, he might react differently than a white person in the same situation might react. At that point, his antennae should have gone up and his temper gone down.

Instead, the officer aggravated the situation, treating Professor Gates with disrespect and insensitivity and when Professor Gates became further agitated as a result, he put a 58-year man in handcuffs in broad daylight in front of his neighbors and hauled him off to jail to be fingerprinted and photographed like a common criminal.

Racial profiling sent Sergeant Crowley to Professor Gates' house, but he had no way of knowing that and had no control over the situation since he was just doing his job - he had to respond. But after he got there and learned that no crime was taking place, all of the control shifted to him. And, as the President so rightly pointed out, he blew it.

I'm not accusing the officer of racial profiling or racism - I don't think any of us know his heart or his motives. But when he found himself in the midst of a racial profiling situation, he failed to adjust his own behavior accordingly or to assess Professor Gates' response in the appropriate context - instead, he treated him as if he was just some man who was behaving in a "tumultuous" manner for no good reason.

THAT's the problem.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #14
33. Let's try this just ONE MORE TIME...
Just for chits and giggles:

"I’m saying ‘You need to send someone to fix my lock.’ All of a sudden, there was a policeman on my porch. And I thought, ‘This is strange.’ So I went over to the front porch still holding the phone, and I said ‘Officer, can I help you?’ And he said, ‘Would you step outside onto the porch.’ And the way he said it, I knew he wasn’t canvassing for the police benevolent association. All the hairs stood up on the back of my neck, and I realized that I was in danger. And I said to him no, out of instinct. I said, ‘No, I will not.’

My lawyers later told me that that was a good move and had I walked out onto the porch he could have arrested me for breaking and entering. He said ‘I’m here to investigate a 911 call for breaking and entering into this house.’ And I said ‘That’s ridiculous because this happens to be my house. And I’m a Harvard professor.’ He says ‘Can you prove that you’re a Harvard professor?’ I said yes, I turned and closed the front door to the kitchen where I’d left my wallet, and I got out my Harvard ID and my Massachusetts driver’s license which includes my address and I handed them to him. And he’s sitting there looking at them.

Now it’s clear that he had a narrative in his head: A black man was inside someone’s house, probably a white person’s house, and this black man had broken and entered, and this black man was me.
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Solomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #33
36. LOL You know the "i would have been glad the cops came to
check my home" is their straw man argument.

No matter how many times you point to the facts, they ignore them and refuse to accept it. The only way for them to win is to pretend that Gates refused to show his ID.
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #36
47. exactly.....sad really....
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #36
56. So lemme see here... the issue is NOT ABOUT:
Edited on Fri Jul-24-09 02:38 PM by Karenina
1. the person who made the call
2. the police responding to that call
3. who said what to whom

The issue IS ABOUT a completed investigation which was handled in a VERY UNPROFESSIONAL MANNER by an officer who
1. illegally entered a citizen's home
2. illegally refused requests to identify himself
3. and very stupidly failed to use any training he received in "de-escalation."

How am I doing so far?
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NYDem Observer Donating Member (313 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #14
61. I'm amazed at how many people just don't get it.
Black men have good reason not to be trustful of cops to begin with. Now try a situation where you are in your own house and being made to look like a criminal.
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Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. You really don't get it do you?
Did you READ the OP?
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #10
25. I appreciate what you are saying but in Gates case the officer
knew who Gates was by sight, he knew he lived in the neighborhood. It's in the police report. There was no reason to insist on a drivers license.

The officers earn respect just as anyone else does, and just like everyone else they don't just get defference because they are police officers. (it doesn't matter what the race is of the officer)

Now having said that I know from personal experience that being a Police Officer is one of the hardest jobs in the world and one of the most dangerous. The officers do put their lives on the line every day and they see stuff that the average citizen can only imagine.



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Kind of Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #10
27. I agree, your opinion is colored by whiteness.
Edited on Thu Jul-23-09 10:00 PM by Kind of Blue
I don't think unless you have personally gone through it in some form, perhaps not exactly as Dr. Gates, could you sympathize even a little with what the OP is saying.

My personal experience is that I've been through it with both black AND white officers, so I think a lot of them are on a power trip.

I'm glad your experience with black officer was a good one. Hey, a wonderful white cop help me when my car was stalled on the freeway, totally rescuing a damsel in distress. But that didn't stop another one from pulling me over when he felt like it and following me home every single blessed night because I didn't "belong" in a certain neighborhood. So the way I see it, your total negation of what the OP is saying is beyond being colored by whiteness but a total whitewash.

Believe me, if you've been through it enough times or even had family go through it day in and day out, I would hope that you would yell or take some kind of stance once and for all.
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #10
35. Look at me I am a white woman too and I have yelled at a few police in my time...
Ive never been arrested,, they deserved it, they knew it, I knew it, and I am a white woman....period, end of story
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busymom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #35
38. classy
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #38
46. Absolutely, thank you for noticing....
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #10
39. So do you have anything to say about what is in the OP, or is it all about you?
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polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #10
43. And I certainly would not
call the person who reported it names....(Gates apparently did not, but people here are) I would actually try to find that person to THANK him or her for being a good neighbor!
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #43
74. I've heard the story that it wasn't actually a neighbor who reported
the professor -- that it was a woman walking down the street. It would be interesting to hear what that woman has to say for herself -- if she exists.
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polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #74
79. IF she exists?????
What is that supposed to mean?

I don't have it handy right now, but her name and the fact that she actually is employed at Harvard have been published.

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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #79
81. Thanks. I had heard two stories about this.
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Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #10
53. I'd say straight up blinded. You refuse to see.
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Ysabela Donating Member (208 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
59. And if you presented your ID and they STILL harassed you in your own home...
you would still be polite and treat the harassing officers with respect? I highly doubt it.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #10
73. So, Professor Grant's crime was being tired and grouchy.
Have you ever locked yourself out of your house? It can be an exhausting experience at any age and even for a healthy person. Professor Grant reportedly has had two knee replacements. That meant that he probably wasn't up to climbing in a window. He may have just needed desperately to sit down and relax for a few minutes after sitting in a car, traveling and then not being able to get into his house.

Regardless of how uncooperative Professor Grant was up to that moment, after the officer saw the professor's I.D. and ascertained that the professor was in his own house, he should have left. If the professor was discourteous, the officer could have cited him and left. The arrest was totally unnecessary. There can be no charge of resisting arrest because there was absolutely no reason for the officer to be arresting a non-violent person in his own home.

The officer is just lucky that Professor Grant is not a passionate NRA gun owner. Of course, the officer profiled Professor Grant as an older middle-aged gentleman as soon as he saw the man, his ID and realized that he lived in the house in which he was standing. The officer may have had a tough day too, but arresting Grant was completely out of line.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
11. Very powerful OP
Recommended.
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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
13. What if the cops had failed to follow up on the call-in of a possible break-in?
Would people claim it's racist that the cops didn't take a break-in of a black person's residence seriously?

What if someone HAD broken in, and a neighbor saw but didn't call it in? Would the neighbor be accused of being a racist for not caring about her black neighbor's property, like she would a white neighbor?

I don't think many people are going to be reporting possible crimes at black homes for awhile. And could be the cops won't be responding to them very quickly.

It's a lose-lose situation. Neighbors and cops are damned if they do, damned if they don't.
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. How about they *don't* arrest him after he has shown them his ID?
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Uzybone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Why are people delibrately missing the point?
no one is saying the cops did anthing wrong by responding to the call. NO-ONE, not even Prof Gates.

That is not the problem.

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Rex_Goodheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Then why did he protest that the officer followed him into his kitchen
without permission? Why did he irately ask the officer for his ID and badge number when the officer had acted quite reasonably up to that point?

The OP is ridiculous, anyway. So, a black man knows how a white person thinks, but a white person doesn't know how a black person thinks. Condescending bullcrap. It's not difficult to know what EITHER thinks, especially when they post on boards like these.

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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. DU and people like you have brought out the worst in me in over the past few weeks
The racism and almost as bad, the DENIAL of racism has almost become too much.

If you can read this heartfelt OP and all you get out of it is that it's "condescending bullcrap" then there aren't enough prayers or words of wisdom in the world that can help you.
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Empowerer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. You are just the kind of person I was directing the post to and it's very sad that you've
learned absolutely nothing from it and, in fact, just see it as an opportunity to further shut your ears and your heart to a point of view obviously held by many, many people.

Very sad. For you.
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ellacott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #19
45. Wow
That's a good question. What did the officer do to make Prof. Gates respond in such a manner? Of course you can't even try to understand this from another perspective. That question has been answered in an earlier posting.

Most of the white people who have been criticial of Prof. Gates have never heard of him before. They probably think he's another black studies professor. It's amazing that so many people don't know who he is and the type of work he does.

I am constantly amazed at my liberal peers.
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BklnDem75 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #19
54. Warrantless nonconsensual entry, perhaps?
The Fourth Amendment prohibits warrantless entry into a home for the purposes of
making an arrest. Kirk v. Louisiana, 536 U.S. 635, 637-39 (2002); Payton v. New York, 445
U.S. 573, 586-87 (1980). To justify a warrantless entry into a residence, the government must
show the existence of probable cause and exigent circumstances. Kirk, 536 U.S. at 638. The
existence of an arrest warrant allows entry into a dwelling in which the defendant lives, but
entry into the home of a third party must be supported by a search warrant or exigent
circumstances. Steagald v. United States, 451 U.S. 204, 211-22 (1981). A non-exigent entry
to effect an arrest of an overnight guest of a third party requires at least an arrest warrant to
comply with the Fourth Amendment. Minnesota v. Olson, 495 U.S. 91 (1990).
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Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #19
57. It's not bullshit.
Edited on Fri Jul-24-09 02:45 PM by Drunken Irishman
We don't live in an era where the media is dominated by blacks. We don't live in an era where all our politicians are black. Where all the TV personalities are black. Where everyone in power -- whether at the local level or national level -- is black.

This country has never been like that. Many Americans -- most, in fact -- live in communities where there isn't even a large enough black population to find a statistical significance. Many Americans don't even know a black person well enough.

So how the hell can we know their experience, what they've gone through and what they think?

We don't know their lives because we're not positioned to see their lives. I live in a community where only 3% of the population is black. The biggest minority here is Hispanic and even then, I would not dare suggest I know anything remotely close to what they're going through.

I do not.

In the immortal words of Homer Simpsons, "I'm a white male, age 18 to 49. Everyone listens to me, no matter how dumb my suggestions are."

And that is the goddamn truth. Every black person has been thrust into the white experience because they have no choice. America is the white experience, so no, I don't think it's condescending to suggest they know more about us than we do about them.

Look at it this way, I'm a Catholic living in Salt Lake City, Utah, home to the LDS Church. Most Mormons do not know a damn thing about my faith, but I surely know about theirs. I know how Mormons work and I know how Mormons pray and I know how Mormons live their lives.

But many Mormons would not have a clue about how I live mine. They might fall back on Catholic stereotypes, but beyond what they've maybe read in a magazine or saw in Angels and Demons, they're totally oblivious to what my experience. Especially that of being a non-Mormon in a Mormon community.

Like, you know, being asked what ward I belong to every time I introduce myself to someone new and getting a cold stare when I admit I'm not LDS. Or not being allowed to play with certain kids because my family weren't LDS. Or being excluded from events because they all tied to the wards and I felt out of place. No Mormon in Utah has never known what it feels like to be a minority. Specifically since 99% of the Mormons here are white.

I don't dare suggest I know anything about being black or what they've gone through or what they think.

Because I don't. I'm white. I've always been white and I'll always be white. I've got it made in the shade.

And anyone who thinks whites don't have it easy, especially if you're a white male, compared to women and other minorities, well then you're just in denial.
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NYDem Observer Donating Member (313 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #19
62. If thats what you got out of the OP's message
you clearly weren't paying attention. You may want to read it again.
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intaglio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #19
64. Imagine; a man enters your home without permission
indeed he has been asked not to enter your home.

How do you respond?
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #19
76. An officer may not enter your home just because he wants to.
Once the professor said he owned the house, the officer should have allowed the professor to get his ID. The professor, please remember, has, reportedly, had two knee replacement surgeries. He is not likely to be all that swift on his feet. President Obama said the professor walks with a cane. The officer was completely in the wrong. He got overemotional and lost his balance. So what if the professor did to.

The officer was in the position of authority here. That means he was responsible for setting the tone, for making sure that emotions did not get out of control. We expect that of teachers. We expect that of judges. Why not ask that of police officers? It would really reduce crime and violence in our society if police officers made defusing anger, bringing peace to a situation, their first priority.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #16
42. missing the point is easier than having to actually confront the issue
x(
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DrZeeLit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #42
55. Exactly. And another point is... would that question have been posed in a Bush presser?
And your answer would be no.
In fact, the entire incident wouldn't have seen more than an inch of ink if Barack Obama wasn't president.

I grew up in the Watts area (we were in the curfew area for the riots). And I have ALWAYS felt that we of other skin colors, especially white, will NEVER know what it feels like to walk into a 7/11 and feel the eyes of the cashier follow us around the store, drive down an all-white neighborhood and watch every person stop and stare... and so many more incidents that I noticed when I went out with my black friends. I never saw my friends get angry or hostile -- only saw fear and sorrow in their faces. I never forgot. Those experiences have shaped my life forever.

Oh, and I have another question. Who called in the complaint on Professor Gates? Who didn't know he lived in that house? If he had identification that showed that was his residence, he didn't just get it that afternoon. Identification is a process that takes a couple weeks (drivers license, etc). They didn't see him in the neighborhood prior to the incident? I was wondering about that. And of course, I am wondering, if he had been white, would those neighbors have called? I guess we will never know, but it is a wonder.
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #16
48. In fact, Professor Gates has *thanked* the neighbor who called in
the possible break-in (during an interview), and he has said he will probably send her flowers. He is not mad at her--or at the fact that the police officer responded to the call. He is mad at the way he was treated once the officer responded to the call.
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. You have missed the whole DAMN POINT of this OP
It's almost as if you read it backwards.
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #13
28. Whoa! Did you really say this?
"I don't think many people are going to be reporting possible crimes at black homes for awhile."

:crazy:

Good for the neighbor for reporting a 'suspected' break-in. The cop did his duty and showed up at the residence to find a very exhausted Gates who did as he was told and presented his IDs. Rightly, Gates was pissed to be treated the way he was in his own home; I would have acted the same way in all probablility (and I'm a white woman). NOT Rightly, the cop was irritated by this black man who gave him a hard time. THAT'S the problem.

It isn't about a suspected break-in. It's about how the cop handled the situation.
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #28
50. See my post #48 above. nt
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #13
40. who said they shouldn't have followed up on the call
"I don't think many people are going to be reporting possible crimes at black homes for awhile. And could be the cops won't be responding to them very quickly."

:wow:

Of course, there's a long history of cops not responding particularly quickly to calls in minority neighborhoods anyway ...
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #13
75. Honeycomb, you are not paying attention.
No one is upset about the fact that the officer went to the house. We are upset about the fact that the professor was arrested for telling the officer off in the professor's home. That is what was stupid.

An officer should not arrest a person because the person insults the officer when the insult is merely verbal. The officer should ascertain that nothing illegal is going on and leave immediately.

What amazes me in this situation is that no one is complaining about the waste of taxpayer money that occurred when the professor was arrested. Think about it:

1) The officer lost time hanging out at the house with the professor after the officer knew full well that the professor was in his own home.
2) The officer wasted his time with the handcuffing and presumably the booking of the professor.
3) The officer wasted the money spent on personnel and materials reaquired to handcuf and book the professor.
4) The officer wasted the money and time driving the professor to the police station.
5) Presumably, the arrest and booking started the work on writing police reports, contacting the DA's office, etc.
6) Imagine what might have happened to an ordinary person in the same situation, a person who was not famous. That person would have had to either hope for a decent public defender or hire a defense attorney.

This officer was way out of line. Going to the house and making sure the professor was who he said he was. Great, but the minute he had identified the professor as the occupant of the house, the officer should have left. No one who has anything to do in the legal system, not a judge, not a lawyer, not a police officer, not a clerk in the court, no one with responsibility in the justice system has the right to get so angry at someone just because of personal verbal insults. It is juvenile. I'm surprised this happened. I have had to listen to horrible personal insults in my life and just stay cool and calm. Comes with the territory. And by the way, I've dished it out a few times too, and the recipients had to be cool and calm also.
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shimmergal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
17. Thank you.
All true. And sad.

As a slightly elderly white woman, I KNOW I'm likely to be treated differently by a police officer than a black man would be. I didn't understand this totally, though, until the year when I was driving a much-battered old Cadillac. I probably got stopped more by police in that car than in any other five-year period, before or since. In all but one case (that one in a speed trap), once he came up and started talking to me, the policeman would back away, and at most write out a warning ticket. I'm sure if I'd been black, or possibly a teenage boy of any race, the treatment would have been different.

Now I've always been cautioned to be polite to police officeers, and I tend to do so, but it's more out of fear of antagonizing them than from automatic respect. Also if I look like I'm about to cry it seems to hit a cautionary note, at least with male police:)

As far as Prof. Gates' experience, no one has mentioned that he was just returning from a long flight from China. That's a very exhausting trip, and being unable to just get into his house so he could unwind must have been an added frustration. That's enough to make someone grouchy, even before the targeting for "being at home while black" which seems to have happened.

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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
24. Empowerer this was a great explanation.
This is a learning and teaching moment for all Americans.

Welcome to DU!:hi:
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Boomerang Diddle Donating Member (566 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
26. Great post! Thank you! n/t
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angee_is_mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
29. Damn
Preach, preach!!!!!!!
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bertrussell Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
30. A perspective on Professor Gates' arrest
Thank you for this, Empowerer.
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SunsetDreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 02:13 AM
Response to Original message
31. Empowerer
Thank you, for this very well written, thought provoking post. I am listening.
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Empowerer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #31
34. THANK you!
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 07:49 AM
Response to Original message
32. Great post, Empowerer. You speak for many of us.
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BklnDem75 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
37. Amen. K & R
Still makes the blood boil.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
41. kicked and recommended


:kick:
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
44. K & R!!!
Beautifully written, eloquent and succinct.
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
49. thanks for breaking it down
some people want to pretend this is an isolated incident, but as i told a particularly obtuse person yesterday, this is the same old shit...this is why the watts riots were started. for most of america's existence, law enforcement has been the enforcer of the status quo. as we all know, the status quo for a long time was white supremacy.
i remember the images of people being hosed with firehoses, and threatened with dogs. who were the prepetrators of these crimes? uniformed police officer, upholding the great white way of life. this mindset didn't just magically disappear.
i don't think the officer in the case was guilty of the horrible crimes as the ones i describe above, but i do believe he thought he was doing the right thing by arresting gates. he thought is was perfectly fine to arrest a black man who dared challenge him. obviously a lot people are fine with that too. not suprising in the least.
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
51. K and R
Further, I'd be just as angry if the cop was black or both parties were white or whatever. The plausible race issues just make a horrendous situation even more unacceptable. The root cause is that police do not respect their fellow citizens, grossly misunderstand their place and purpose, see themselves as superior, and view ALL of us somewhere between suspects and scumbag criminals from jump street.
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
52. Let me tell you a few stories from several years ago.
(1) Two of my college students, both young black men, both walk-ons on the KU football team, shared an apartment in a complex largely occupied by college students.

After studying at the library one night, they went back to their apartment, parked their car, and pulled their backpacks out of the back seat of the car. At that point, they were surrounded by cops, whose guns were drawn, and they were forced face down to the ground, where they had to lie for several minutes with guns pointed at their heads.

Why? Well, there had been reports (later debunked) of a drive-by shooting at the apartment complex. Naturally, the cops assumed that two young black men at the complex must be suspects. Needless to say, no young white men were forced to the ground or had guns pointed at their heads that night.)

I don't understand how the cops would assume that these two guys, with their backpacks full of books, calmly pulling into their own parking space at their own apartment, would automatically be suspects in a supposed drive-by shooting.

Oh, wait--they were black. Of course they were suspects.

(2) One of the young men was at the time enrolled in the second class he had taken from me. The first class he took from me was English 101. During that class, I had brought up racial profiling, and this kid, 18 at the time, told me it had never happened to him. His dad and uncles were all police officers in Chicago, and he was sure that Chicago cops didn't do such things.

But after Thanksgiving break that semester, he came up and told me that when he and his cousin had been driving home for break, they were pulled over by cops, and the cops harassed them, even though they had done nothing wrong (not even a traffic violation), and even though they were not charged with anything. Apparently the cops just saw two young lack men driving a decent (not fancy, just decent) car and pulled them over for DWB. Once they had them pulled over, and even though the kids did nothing wrong, the cops just couldn't resist the opportunity to mess with them.

My student was terribly sad and disillusioned, because he was from a family of LOEs and planned to become one himself (which, by the way, he did after graduating from college).

(3) Another story, about another student. This one was a scholarship football player. He had a son in Florida, whom he drove back and forth to visit during breaks. Once he was pulled over in Florida, and the cop used a police dog to intimidate him. The dog lunged at the student, who, as it happens, had a phobia of dogs because of being badly bitten when a child. The student leapt up and over the hood of his car to escape the dog, and was therefore charged with resisting arrest. He had done nothing wrong in the first place, so there was nothing to arrest him for that he could have been resisting arrest for, but he ended up having to spend so much time in Florida dealing with court appearances that he ended up flunking out of school.

I tried to help him by giving him an "Incomplete" so he could finish up his work, but he never did finish it, or the work in any of his other classes, so the I grades automatically turned into Fs.

Maybe he would have flunked out anyway. Maybe he would not have completed his work in any of those classes anyway.

But maybe he was just so stressed out and distracted by the constant trips to Florida to fight those bogus charges that he couldn't concentrate on his schoolwork or even find time to do it.

BTW, this young man was very large, in the way today's football players tend to be very large. I think that large black men are in especially great danger from cops, who seem to assume that they are like dangerous animals, no matter how mild mannered they actually are. The two young men whose stories I told at the start of this post were not that big. They were "big" in the sense that they were very healthy and worked out a lot, so they had impressive musculatures, but they were not tall. The one with the son in Florida was about 6'5" as well as being extremely large and well-muscled. I think it is almost a miracle that he was not shot.
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Leontius Donating Member (380 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #52
66. Another story
A white man early twenties and a black man early twenties late afternoon early evening walking out of the back of a large apartment building carrying a box and a small TV are confronted by a white detective walking toward them with his right arm and hand across his body reaching under his jacket wanting to know what they are doing and asking for some ID. When an explantion that one of the men was moving and ID was shown everyone went on their way.
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nolabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
58. One of my grandfathers was an Alabama State Patrolman
in the mid-1960's. He was the scariest man I ever knew for a variety of reasons, and I won't broad-brush policemen because of him, but I overheard him tell tales of abusing black men, of cuffing and pistol-whipping them "in the line of duty." I knew of the racism of people who raised me, the things they said behind backs and in positions of power. I feel the guilt to this day, and hope that we can turn this conflict into an increased and compassionate dialogue. Thank you for trying to give it a start.
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NYDem Observer Donating Member (313 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
60. Thank you OP. Clearly some people don't get it
Bottom line, until you've walked a mile in a black man's shoes you will never understand. As a black man myself, and much younger than Gates I might add, I can't even count the number of times I've been senselessly harrassed by the cops just because I "fit a description". I have the advantage of looking at Gates' behavior from that context, and IMO the cop was lucky that Gates calling out his mama was the most confrontational it got.
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BumRushDaShow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
63. It is the "pile-on" that is what causes the upset
Edited on Fri Jul-24-09 04:17 PM by BumRushDaShow
Incident after incident after incident. Day after day after day. Week after week after week. Month after month after month. Year after year after year. Decade after decade after decade. Century after century after century. Whether it's a black professor yanked out of his own house and arrested for being in that house, or http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/11/22/national/main2205048.shtml?source=RSSattr=HOME_2205048">a black 92 year old woman gunned down like a dog in her home after she reacted to the cop thugs kicking down her door, or http://www.newsday.com/long-island/nassau/after-cop-shooting-nypd-to-survey-undercover-officers-1.1238981">a black off-duty cop killed by a white undercover cop because the white cop saw a black man running, it needs to STOP.

Just today, the Guardian Civic League, which is an organization of black Philadelphia police officers, made the Philadelphia police department demand the shutdown of a popular police web forum http://www.philly.com/inquirer/home_region/20090724_Police_investigating_threats_on_Domelight.html">administered by a Philadelphia Police Sergeant and filled with racist diatribes against black officers.

And just like the "ENOUGH!" clarion call came during the election, so too do so many of us keep yelling "ENOUGH!".
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #63
77. this is the context that many people just don't get
i have a lot of fond memories of my childhood and youth, and i also have memories of eula mae love, and my friend ronnie settles...and it just goes on and on and on and on. it is a pattern, it's not a "mistake" or and "accident".

1979 Eula Mae Love
Eula Mae Love, a thirty-nine-year-old woman who stood about five feet four inches tall, was shot a dozen times by two LAPD officers who were called to the scene after she tried to stop a gas maintenance man from turning off her gas. When they arrived, she was armed with a kitchen knife, but the only thing she stabbed was a tree in her yard
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=6...

1981 Ronnie Settles
(We went to high school together)
was a California State University, Long Beach & Banning High School football player who was arrested by the Signal Hill Police Department in 1981. The morning after his arrest, he was found severely beaten and hanging in his jail cell. A huge furor erupted afterwards over the suspicious nature of his death. The police said he committed suicide, but this story was very weak. The Los Angeles District Attorney filed charges against them, with the Signal Hill Police officers eventually taking the fifth amendment to avoid incriminating themselves. No one was convicted of Settles' homicide, but the city of Signal Hill did pay a large settlement to the family
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Settles

1998 Tyisha Miller
(My parents and sister lived in Riverside at the time)
...About an hour later, one of Miller's cousins and a friend arrived at the gas station and found Miller locked in her car, with her seat back, music playing on the radio and a .380 semiautomatic pistol in her lap. She didn't respond to knocks on her window. The cousin and friend thought Miller was foaming at the mouth. They called 911 and reported Tyisha was in distress, and that she had a gun. They then called her aunt's house to get keys to the car.

Because the 911 call reported that Miller had a gun, a police car as well as an ambulance was dispatched. The police arrived approximately two minutes later. They tried to rouse Miller by banging on the windows and eventually breaking them. At this point, police accounts diverge. Two of the officers say Miller reached for her pistol; two said they weren't sure whether she reached for it or not. The four officers -- all white -- fired about 27 shots, hitting Miller at least a dozen times. The Riverside police have not released tapes or transcripts of the 911 call or of the radio communication among the officers -- a fact that has been singled out by critics, who point out that they had no problem releasing the autopsy report showing that Miller was legally drunk.
http://archive.salon.com/news/1999/02/cov_08news2.html
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justjones Donating Member (596 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
65. Thanks, Empowerer. I personally don't have the energy anymore...
to explain the Black perspective to the majority American (aka White) perspective. It's pretty hopeless IMO. I give up, but applaud you for your words and diligence. I hope I am able to get a second wind some time soon. In the meantime, I just sit a brood over incidents like this.
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lady lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
67. And, sadly, you live in a country where the first black president
is being held to a higher standard for proof of American citizenship than any president or presidential candidate before him.

But now that the news makers over at CNN have declared the issue "dead"...well, we'll see. :eyes:
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JayMusgrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
68. K+R I can't remember if I commented already
this is a very good OP... and many other comments are wonderful,too!
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Betsy Ross Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
69. K&R n/t
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Jade Fox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
70. Thanks for your effort.......
Edited on Fri Jul-24-09 05:35 PM by Jade Fox
White people have a lot of trouble with the idea that there are experiences we have never had and never will, but that those experiences still exist.

"Hey, I'm white and I've been treated badly too!!" I cannot believe how often one still hears this sort of self-centered, beside-the-point, infantile denial of racism from people who should know better.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 06:52 AM
Response to Reply #70
82. Thanks for that, Jade Fox
I would certainly appreciate it if upon seeing that kind of post, you would comment. The DENIAL is often worse than the offense.

These in response to the question, "Has Obama Ever Been Racially Profiled' which included an anecdote about him being mistaken for a maitre d':

Bad example

I must always look like I'm working because I get asked questions in the grocery store often. And always when I'm in a hospital. I guess after 20 years as a nurse, I just look at home in a hospital, any hospital.

That's a fairly broad interpretation of racial profiling.

I have been confused for being an airline employee because I was wearing a navy blue jacket and tie while standing next to the ticket counter. My wife was once confused for being a hostess at an Olive Garden because of how she was dressed.

:argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh: :argh::argh::argh:

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jonestonesusa Donating Member (630 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
71. Thanks for your patient OP. K & R.
The effort is appreciated as we try to come closer together, hopefully, in the age of Obama.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
78. I get it, from personal experience, not because I am black in a "white world",
Edited on Fri Jul-24-09 06:35 PM by kestrel91316
but because for many years after I graduated from vet school I was a woman in a "man's profession". I have countless similarly degrading experiences under my belt, where clients basically told me that women couldn't possibly be veterinarians, and if they were, they were by definition incompetent.

I totally get it, and I totally support Professor Gates.

Hang in there. Things ARE getting better, albeit far too slowly for blacks.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
80. Amen
Well said :applause:
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