Folks, if you make a cop mad they WILL arrest you. They don't need a legimate reason!

[KansasVoter]

Call anyone else you want an "asshole" and you are fine. Maybe they will fight you but nothing else.

Hell, scream "asshole" at President Obama and nothing will happen if you are not an immediate threat to him.

But give a cop a hard time, even if there is a good reason to give them a hard time, and they will arrest you. They have the power and they are basically punishing you for giving them trouble. They can charge you with something just to cuff you and haul you in and they KNOW that 95% of the time the charge will be dropped, but they don't care. There is no downside to them arresting you on bogus charges because they will not get punished for it. And you spend a few hours in jail, maybe over a weekend if there is no judge, and you post bail and then about two weeks later the charges are dropped. You have no recourse against the cop, but in his mind he taught you a lesson. And I guarantee they love knowing they can do it.

I have seen people present 100% totally correct logic to a police officer and prove them incorrect and they do not care. If you argue with them and are 100% correct in your argument but make them look bad or point out where they are wrong they will arrest you. When a police officer is present you will not win an argument no matter how correct you are. Just shut up and deal with it later.

Unless you are on video tape, I would suggest you just do what the cop says and bite your tongue. But if you are on video and the cop knows it, you will see a whole different attitude! Wonder why????

I am not saying this is a good thing, I am saying it sucks. But it is the way it is! Until the police are punished for making bogus arrests nothing will change!

[MrMickeysMom]

1. What if you say...

(with a sweet smile on your fresh face)... "Oh, okay... Fuck you very much, officer!"

eh?

[Davis_X_Machina]

16. In the Ninth Federal Circuit, at least...

...that's already been found to be insufficient grounds for arrest.

See my post below.

[TTUBatfan2008]

2. Yeah it sucks...

That phrase "above the law" applies to the alleged law enforcers. Like when they abuse their emergency lights just because they don't feel like putting up with traffic, not because they are actually in an emergency situation. But hey, I'm cynical.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[firedupdem]

6. LOL! n/t

[freddie mertz]

60. Touché

n/t

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[alcibiades_mystery]

27. That they seem to be all spineless fucking cowards?

:shrug:

[Jennicut]

4. And this is okay...why? Police who act abusive have issues. Power trips are not

cool.

[napoleon_in_rags]

5. Words of wisdom for the poor...

...but not everybody. The truth is if the cop arrests the wrong person for no reason, sometimes the cop will be screwed. Examples include powerful businessmen, politicians, clergy, lawyers, and influential folks like academics. They can all get back at you in their ways, hell one of them might just inspire the POTUS to say you acted like an ass! ;)

[Davis_X_Machina]

7. Then we need a rash of actions under....

43 USC 1983, because arrests for 'contempt of cop' are constitutionally infirm in half the federal circuits in this country. Duran v. City of Douglas, 904 F.2d 1372 (9th Cir. 1990)

The freedom of individuals to oppose or challenge police action verbally without thereby risking arrest is one important characteristic by which we distinguish ourselves from a police state. ... Thus, while police, no less than anyone else, may resent having obscene words and gestures directed at them, they may not exercise the awesome power at their disposal to punish individuals for conduct that is not merely lawful, but protected by the First Amendment.
...
No less well established is the principle that government officials in general, and police officers in particular, may not exercise their authority for personal motives, particularly in response to real or perceived slights to their dignity. Surely anyone who takes an oath of office knows--or should know--that much.

[Uzybone]

8. Unacceptable

this is not a dictatorship

[Raineyb]

9. It is this pathetic attitude that allows the police to run amok

If you sanction the sons of bitches who pull this shit it would stop soon enough. Instead you argue that we should bow and scrape to those who are supposed to work for us.

Pathetic!

[krabigirl]

20. Yep. it's pathetic.

[Birthmark]

10. Yes, that's sound advice for anyone living in a police state.

[krabigirl]

21. 2nd.

[Amonester]

12. yeah... do what the frigging cop says...

like do what the friggin' master of race says...

kneel before His grand-standin' majesty :puke:

and the Constitution (among other things, and laws) is just a piece of toilet paper.

Right.

(NEVER)

[MUAD_DIB]

15. You're right. Don't do what the cop says.

Put that into practice every day, my friend.

[okieinpain]

50. man you should see the midwest city court room on ticket day. you're

being sarcastic right now but on 1 week out of every month tuesdays and thursdays in midwest city, oklahoma is no freakin joke. kneeling before his grand-standin majesty is getting off lite.

[MUAD_DIB]

13. But, but, but EMOTIONALLY CHARGED RESPONSE!

[CTLawGuy]

44. LOUD NOISES!

NT

[tularetom]

14. Uh, these people are "Civil Servants"

They need to be reminded of the fact that they work for us.

The best way to do this is bombard your local government elected officials with stories like the Gates incident. Remind them that they could be held personally liable for the actions of some coward they hire. They get plenty of propaganda from the cops themselves who constantly attempt to whip the citizens into a state of fear in order to gain higher pay for themselves.

I don't think the cops around here are corrupt. Being corrupt takes a level of thought and planning that these guys are incapable of. They're too incompetent and stupid to be corrupt.

And since most of my local property tax goes to pay the salaries of these incompetent idiots I think I'm getting screwed.

[MUAD_DIB]

24. Are you the kind of person that would to yell at a cop and say you're paying

their salary?


Your disdain for them is duly noted and fairly prejudiced in and of itself.

[TahitiNut]

33. That's the "suburban" world. In the inner city, a visit from a cop is NOT welcome.

Believe it or not, we each have our own "reality" ... and a cop coming to the door, for most people of color, has nothing to do with "civil service."

:shrug:

You can take the person out of the inner city ... but taking the inner city out of the person is far more difficult.

[tularetom]

34. Our local sheriff told me at a public meeting he could not provide service to our remote area

And he got pissed when I asked the local governing board for a tax refund because 90% of my property taxes went for police services I wasn't receiving.

[okieinpain]

52. damn right, excellent post. seeing the police is not a good thing. n/t.

[kestrel91316]

17. They most certainly DO need a legitimate reason if they wish to avoid

being charged with false arrest. More people need to pursue that avenue when wronged in this way. Maybe a few bad cops need to be fucking bankrupted by civil damage awards. They get away with far too much of this crap.

[KansasVoter]

25. I agree. But a false arrest charge is almost impossible to get from the local prosecutor.

[krabigirl]

18. And you are ok with this if it is in your own home? Sorry, I'm not ok with that!

Edit: When there's no crime committed, of course. The professor proved that he was not breaking in. No crime was committed.

[SPedigrees]

19. It's called discretion. Police decide who to arrest, prosecutors decide who to prosecute, and so on

[KansasVoter]

22. And there is NO downside for the cop to arrest. It is an intimidation tool!

[baldguy]

23. Cops who abuse their authority are criminals and should be treated as such.

[arcadian]

26. You are absolutely wrong. It's called false arrest.

Thanks for contributing the the atmosphere of lawlessness that is already pervasive in this country though. :thumbsdown: unrec

[KansasVoter]

29. LOL....show me a case of FALSE ARREST! lINK PLEASE!!!!!

[moobu2]

28. I don’t really think it was racism either.

I don’t think it was racism but I can understand why Mr. Gates would feel that it was.

I’ve been in the exact same position as Mr. Gates, several times, and I’m white and hadn’t done anything illegal either. Like you said, a lot of police are just very arrogant and if you give them a hard time, they’ll arrest the shit out of you, no matter who you are. I think they were definitely wrong in the Gates case, but I don’t think it was racism necessarily. When you're involved in any situation with police, it’s best to be co-operative, as respectful as possible and don’t let them get under your skin, especially if there are few witnesses. I’ve learned that lesson believe me.

I wasn’t there so it's just my opinion.

[okieinpain]

53. I agree. I've been teaching this to my children since the day they could

understand what the hell I was saying.

[noamnety]

30. My experience has been different.

My (white) ex saw a cop putting a parking ticket on his car. It was justified, he had parked illegally. He went up - while the cop was still there - and had a verbal temper tantrum over it, cursing, definitely creating a disturbance. Then he stormed off. The cop called after him - aren't you going to move your car? My ex screamed back something along the lines of "F*** No, not now. I was gonna move it, but now I'm gonna leave it there and go do more errands. What are you gonna do, write me another ticket?!!"

He was cursing, he was threatening in his tone, he was openly challenging the policeman's authority. And he was white.

The cop just rolled his eyes and let him walk away.

I'm the first to agree here that power corrupts, and many times policemen DO abuse their authority (the recent shooting of the unarmed guy in his bathing suit underscores that), and when that happens, I think the vast majority of the time the good old boy network will try to cover for them. But that does not negate that racism is also very often a determining factor in how police treat people who are not appropriately submissive.

[dkf]

40. "Appropriately submissive"

Exactly. The Prof was arrested because he didn't "yessir" this creep of a cop.

[okieinpain]

55. thank you. n/t.

[Fire1]

31. You just described a bunch of low life, inept, morally,

ethically and intellectually deficient losers who are so insecure they feel threatened at the slightest challenge. :shrug:

[vaberella]

32. If you believe what you say...we need serious Police reform. Cops aren't allowed to do that.

They do the same thing in NYC and hence the reason under Guilliani and before 9/11 the five boroughs were considered Police Boroughs....if you're a darker shade than canary you didn't want to be caught on the street at night----basically if you're a minority don't be caught when the sun goes down in NYC, the police ruled us and that is unlawful and should not be going on. We give the power to protect us, not fuckin' terrorize us.

[Sebastian Doyle]

35. An asshole with a badge is more despicable than an asshole without one.

Because the other asshole can't do anything aside from general assholeyness without getting a boot up his asshole. The asshole with the badge will act as though he has the legal authority to be an asshole, and apparently some here are way too willing to hand over that authority.

Fuck that shit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M8vei3L0L8

[okieinpain]

56. sorry dude, but it must be nice in your world. have you seen that

dave chappelle show where he talks about his friend being drunk and telling the cop he didn't know he could race his car on the street. yeah I that your dave's friend.

[falcon97]

36. Perhaps in smaller towns. n/t

[depakid]

37. Some will even try to arrest you if you're an ambulance driver rushing a patient to the hospital

[backscatter712]

38. And people wonder why I hate the pigs!

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TexasObserver]

41. Yes, they will arrest you and they'll make up a reason.

Lying under oath is an essential part of being a police officer. Anyone who thinks there is any officer who hasn't filed a sworn report that he or she KNEW contained at least one falsehood doesn't understand how cops make their cases. They make up any parts that are needed to justify the end result.

Former police officers have verified that. As well known cop writer Joseph Wambaugh wrote, every officer lies to make probable cause.

[okieinpain]

59. I use to work for a housing authority and I would see these police

reports from our security dept. they would find drugs in peoples houses left and right, and I just scratch my head at how stupid they were to leave their drugs "laying in Plain sight", before inviting security in to look around the apartment.

then one day one of the guards informed me that "laying in plain sight", was standard procedure for writing up a drug bust.

:~)

[TexasObserver]

68. Yes, that's exactly how they do it.

They find marijuana in an illegal search. They fix it by filing a report that says they "smelled a pungent odor" and investigated.

If they find a gun, they'll say they saw the gun sticking out from under the seat.

They will make up whatever they need to make the case. Always.

[elocs]

42. Realilty, it does suck. There is often a world of difference between the way things should be

and the way they are.

[CTLawGuy]

43. I agree

the time to challenge a police officer's conduct is in the courtroom later on, NOT at the time of the encounter. That doesn't mean not asserting your rights - that you should do. But in doing that, and in ANY INTERACTION WITH THE POLICE, you need to be respectful.

Generally, an officer can constitutionally arrest someone if he or she has probable cause that the person has committed, is committing or is about to commit ANY OFFENSE for which state law allows people to be arrested. Probable cause exists when the officer knows of facts that would justify a reasonable officer in believing that the person to be arrested has committed, is committing or is about to commit a crime. This is a low standard, it does not require solid proof, it does not require that the officer's belief is correct more likely than not.

The OP is right, if you berate the cops, some of them might get mad and might arrest you even if they have no basis for it. You will go to jail, you will be released soon thereafter and any charges will be dropped. You could sue, but it's a very expesnive endeavor and you'd have to prove the absence of probable cause to arrest for ANY OFFENSE at the time you were arrested, which is VERY hard. As you can tell, this situation almost never comes out good for the arrested person.

[zbdent]

45. don't forget ... touching, even "brushing against" a police officer can be

called "assaulting" an officer ... depending on how much they want to shut you down ...

[okieinpain]

61. heard that story before in midwest city court. young white male got 30 days

for assaulting a police officer that he bumped into in a hallway. and the funny part is they weren't even going to see him they were at the apartment across from this guy and he was just trying to leave his apartment. police officer said the guy went out of his way to bump into him.

[zbdent]

46. "But if you are on video and the cop knows it" ...

why do you think the cops often confiscate videotapes of situations? Not really for "evidence" ...

[Bluenorthwest]

47. I have been reading some stretches out of Kansas on DU!

And this one takes the cake. What a load of servility and cowardice. Complacency is the same as culpability at a certain point. That point has been long passed.

[CBGLuthier]

48. Lie back and take it huh

Baaaa Basaaa Baaa go the sheep of the land.

[Odin2005]

49. Screw that. I ain't gonna let the pigs keep me from speaking my mind.

If they want to haul me off because I called them assholes then so be it.

[Karenina]

51. And therein lies the basic problem.

And as Skip Gates rightly pointed out, people of colour and the poor are most at risk. Perhaps all this hullabaloo will lead to changing that. Law enforcement continues being militarized ant THAT is NOT a good thing.

[Patiod]

54. True story of a stupid white girl

So i'm driving through center city Philadelphia years ago, when I was in my 20s and stupid.

There were two cars stopped in the middle of Walnut Street, with the drivers talking to one another. This is a major East-West route across the city, and they were blocking traffic, so I blew my horn. Immediately, a big guy gets out of the (unmarked) car in front of me, puts on his cop hat, and strides over to my car.

"What are you blowing your horn at????!!!! What if I had been a thug!!!" he shouts at me.

And, as only a stupid suburban white girl would think of doing, I said in my sweetest voice "I guess I would have had to call a cop, then"

He just smacked the side of my car with his hand, strode back to his car, and drove away.

I can only guess that he looked at me, did the math, and didn't want to take the chance that my Daddy might be a lawyer.

But what this says about Philly cop arrogance, and my own youthful naivite, is scary. (I'll spare you the story of the Philly cop woman who hit on my husband right in front of me, who to this day we refer to as the Horny Blue Line....)

[mkultra]

57. And its wrong. Accepting it is foolish

They do actually need a legitimate reason, they just get away with breaking the rules easily.

[izzybeans]

58. if they have no legitimate reason to arrest then everyone has a legitimate reason

to resist that arrest.

Unreasonable search and seizure means nothing anymore.

[freddie mertz]

62. AND the charges were DROPPED.

Just saying...

[izzybeans]

63. As charges are when cops make unlawful arrests.

Here in Chicago we've seen cops beat people up off and on duty for no apparent reason other than them being hotheads. Their victims were uniformly arrested for resisting arrest or disorderly conduct. nearly all charges are dropped even in cases where the cops got their asses kicked.

If a cop picks a fight with me, i have a right to defend myself. And if he is in my home questioning me, I have a right to question him, even in harsh tones.

Officer Crowley sounds like a wimp who uses his badge and gun to feel like more of a man. I bet he felt proud arresting an old man with a cane for talking "in tones" to him.

[freddie mertz]

64. In other words, there was no "legitimate reason"

to arrest the man.

OP no longer necessary.

[Zomby Woof]

65. Do you piss on the Bill of Rights for fun?

Serious cop-sniffing in your post.

[jeremyfive]

66. Great summation of abuse of power.

Thank God for videotape--we are beginning to see the other side of the coin.

These abusive officers are going to wake up to the fact that the world is now watching.

[Orsino]

67. I think we were already aware that that can and does happen. n/t

[Phx_Dem]

69. Or they'll taser you for looking at them cross-eyed! They love their taser guns.

[AngryOldDem]

70. If you're dealing with the Gestapo, maybe.

Cops should be better able to deescalate situations and not react in a manner that leads up to what happened with Gates. Maybe both sides were spoiling for a fight here, but that's beside the point. Words alone are never sufficient provocation of violence of any kind. And I would consider Gates's arrest a violent act.

Honestly...that is a basic tenet of law. Why should police officers be exempt from this?

This is the problem. We give a pass far too often to behavior that would not be tolerated if the person in question did not have a gun and a badge. That's just bullshit. And you're right: It WON'T change until people start calling them on this flagrant abuse of public trust and authority.