The mighty hypocrisy of selective objection to discrimination

[Prism]

I've been debating this post for the past 24 hours. As I read thread after thread after thread about the arrest of Professor Gates, it is very difficult not to notice the vast differences in how people react to and treat discrimination among different minority groups. The following observations are not meant to pit one minority group against any other. No one has to self-identify with any group to realize discrimination is wrong. No one has to belong to any group to empathize with hurt, inequality, and the outrages of injustice.

My hope is that, in highlighting these differences, people who have reacted poorly in the past will give a second think about how they approach others in the future when it comes to how many people in this country suffer discrimination.

1. Being upset with the police's treatment of Professor Gates is not "poutrage". Anyone who would use that word to describe the situation would have to be heartless, uncaring, and deeply wrong.

2. Equal treatment by law enforcement is not a pony. It is not a frivolous demand made by those with an axe to grind.

3. Equal treatment by law enforcement is not a pet issue.

4. The issue of equal treatment by law enforcement is not something that can be shunted aside because we've far too much to do on the economy, health care, and foreign policy.

5. No Democratic President would invite Sgt. Crowley to open his inauguration. No Democratic President would frame such an invitation by saying, "Though we may have deep differences on how law enforcement treats African-Americans, it is important for us to reach out and find common ground. The fact of the matter is that we are all against crime." Any Democratic President who attempted such a thing would be destroyed in his next primary. No liberal would treat such an offense with the blithe response that "Reasonable people can differ."

6. Many people were aggravated and offended when Bill Cosby was brought forward as the "shielding opinion" for people to criticize the outrage expressed at arrest of Professor Gates. When people drag similar figures out to criticize the LGBT community, it's just as aggravating and offensive.

If you faced the above list nearly every single day on DU, would you be upset? Now imagine if nearly every post you made about the Professor Gates incident was replied to by an overwhelming majority who dismissed it as unimportant, belly-aching, selfish, a single issue cause. Imagine if someone told you to stop complaining about unequal application of law enforcement, that it will sort itself out eventually, that you already have a President in office who said he'd address it, that you simply have to trust that those in power will handle it, that any complaint or pressure on your part is simply counter-productive whining.

LGBTers on DU face all this and more. Every. Single. Day. From dozens of the same people who have (rightly) expressed outrage, hurt, and despair over how law enforcement behaves towards ethnic minorities.

Bigotry and discrimination are never acceptable. No one in this country should be asked to suffer it or dismissed when they tell you they are harmed by it. Racism, homophobia, sexism. These are all related, all a cancer in our society, all an injustice that can never be set aside for a time as we turn our attention to other things. They can never be excused, apologized for, or dismissed.

I hope that those who are righteously offended and outraged by Professor Gates' arrest think on those feelings, examine their past treatment of other minorities who face discrimination in this country, and perhaps alter their behavior and attitudes when those minorities express similar hurt, frustration, and despair over their inferior place in American society and the laws and power structures that similarly rob them of their dignity and equality.

Empathy, compassion, and putting ourselves in another's place can never steer us wrong. It is easy to be offended and outraged when it is our own group is under assault by discriminatory practices. It is far more difficult to treat others as we'd want to be treated ourselves.

I think a lot of us could do with a bit of reflection and approach future discrimination issues with all of the above firmly in mind. Our track record on this account, at this point in time, is a pretty poor one.

JMHO.

[PretzelWarrior]

1. it's always about you, isn't it?

[QC]

21. You're still here? n/t

[cboy4]

26. Perhaps I should send my fabulous pink pony to give him a lift.

Or whatever term he used.

[TexasObserver]

23. Irony, you are so delicious!

... a little toooooooooooo ironic.

[QC]

34. Sometimes, though, irony is really, really creepy.

This is one such case.

[tbyg52]

45. >>Empathy, compassion, and putting ourselves in another's place can never steer us wrong.

May I suggest you try some of that.

[Starry Messenger]

2. K&R.

[FrenchieCat]

3. Are most LGBTers real upset about this "Gates" incident?

because I haven't noticed a surge in vocality,
although I haven't been necessarily looking for it.

[Prism]

4. We seem to be speaking out, yes

But, more importantly, there is no surge of LGBTers using words like poutrage, pony, and other belittling comments that so often attend our issues on these boards.

[FrenchieCat]

6. well, OK.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8546845&mesg_id=8548067

[Prism]

7. I believe . . .

. . . that is a reference to that poster referring to LGBT issues as a fabulous pink pony in a now deleted post.

Do you disagree with noting someone's bigotry when they're castigating others for closed-mindedness?

(edited second sentence for clarity of intent)

[FrenchieCat]

9. I only saw the pony reference as mentioned in your op......

I didn't see or read any deleted comments.

At the end of the day, I believe that I understand your point....
although I will say that I have read many posts in the last two days
here at DU that haven't been supportive of Mr. Gates or of Obama's comment.

I personally have not demanded that anyone posting on this should
agree exactly with how I see it....although I'd love it if that was the case.

[Prism]

12. It's a matter of hypocrisy

Without citing anything specific to avoid calling out, let's put it this way. Some of the very same sentiments, attitudes, and arguments used by many of the people currently upset by the Professor Gates situation have been dismissed or oppositely adopted when it comes to LGBT issues.

I have a theory that if anyone posted threads where the word "poutrage" appeared early and often, they'd be in for a severe (deserved) lashing from many quarters. In replying to the desire for equality of treatment by law enforcement, no one would dismiss it as an unreasonable, petulant demand for a pony.

Yet that is how discrimination against the LGBT community is categorized every single day here by many of the most prominent members.

I merely wished to highlight it and place that cruelty and dismissiveness within a relevant, current context.

[FrenchieCat]

13. Like I said, I see your point.....

Me, I see it this way...
There are DUers of color who may be more outraged by this particular incident,
just as there may be LGBT Duers who may be more outspoken by incidents centered around LGBTers.
There are even other DUers who have shown concern on both.
and yet others who don't comment on any of it at all.

As for these "prominent Members" who normally respond with Ponies and Poutrage,
to incidents of LGBT tragedies who are now outraged....
I'd have to get a list on who they are.
You can PM me if you'd like.

Personally, I wish that the noise on this particular incident would go away,
because it is keeping our eyes off the prize....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8544643&mesg_id=8544643


But that's just me.

[Prism]

14. There are differences

What you describe is a difference in enthusiasm for posting on a topic based on whether it personally affects someone. That's a natural human reaction.

I'm discussing an opposite enthusiasm for actively, vocally dismissing people who are upset by discrimination. Saying little or nothing is a far cry from expending effort to spread a bit of salt in open wounds.

I'd rather not about names. It wouldn't do any good.

I wish we were talking about health care, too. I believe it's now or never for this presidential term. But, I figure while we're on the subject of discrimination and inequality, couldn't hurt.

[FrenchieCat]

16. I hear you on making Health Care the priority right this moment....

I consider the controversy of what Obama said to be a false one, as I looked upon it as just his opinion (and I thought Presidents were allowed to have those)......and so I don't think it merits the number of threads devoted to it. I do believe that a person shouldn't be arrested simply for their perceived "tone", and there is something to be said about something like this happening to such a prominent figure, no matter if he was Black or Gay or both!

But minorities of all types have endured this type of treatment for years and years,
and we all know that it isn't close to going away.
I was not surprised it happened, and I won't be surprised when it happens again.
As of today, sadly, I wouldn't be surprised, if someone tried to do away with this President altogether.
Unfortunately, it is what I'm thinking these days everytime I see him in a crowd.
Kinda of depressing and ghoolish....
but hey, it's part of his particular job title; First Black President of the United States.

[Prism]

18. The President has nothing to apologize for

I cringed a bit at the "stupidly" wording, because I could see the media preoccupation rolling in before he put the period on the sentence. But, I'm glad he addressed racial profiling, and I can imagine the relief among so many who thought, "Finally, we have a President who will actually mention this."

I admit, when I see the President in those massive crowds with hundreds of people reaching towards him, sometimes I unconsciously hold my breath.

[Leo The Cleo]

54. NOT SURE ABOUT THIS

I don't know that people on here do not support the LGBT community. Also, I haven't really been looking. But if there is someone here who does not champion the rights of any group to live a whole full life and be protected by the law, then shame on them. The world is filled with too much hate to try silence those with a voice for change.

[ruggerson]

55. TOTALLY SURE ABOUT THIS

It happens here on a daily basis.

[Leo The Cleo]

68. STILL NOT SURE

There are many members on here who speak candidly and affirmatively about their support for the LGBT communities. There may be a few "fringe" folk who don't. I don't dismiss that, because I contend that there are still bigots here on DU and that people on the right don't own the bigotry mantle. However, I think people on here are supportive for the most part of the LGBT. I do, however, think that the most push back comes from when people start comparing themselves. And the fact of the matter is that some comparisons just don't work. They are divisive. But on the whole, I think people here are supportive. But it is fair enough to say that "most" is not enough.

[dsc]

29. It was in another thread

it has since been deleted so I can't find it. As to your other point, frankly I pretty much stay out of any thread having to do with racial issues. I have been called a bigot way too often with no consequences at all to the name callers. Frankly the cop was dead wrong but even saying that, I am sure, would lead to my being called a racist.

[ruggerson]

30. Excuse me, Frenchie

but that's a reference to a homophobic remark that particular poster made not even a week ago. Now he writes a post complaining about bigotry, soo I was reminding him of his own words, which were both dismissive and bigoted. I was highlighting the hypocrisy.

I've written a few posts with my own take on the Gates incident.

Here's one:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8543969#8544613

"My take - Cops profile black folks all the time. A sick fact of life in this country. There definitely was a racial component in what this guy did with Gates. Young black men are routinely harrassed by racist police in America."


and here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8548167&mesg_id=8548175


"It's not like he volunteered his opinion or waded into this on his own
he was ASKED on national television by a reporter at a live press conference.
He had every right to respond honestly with his gut."

[FrenchieCat]

38. As I mentioned.....I was unaware of all that had taken place,

which is why I apologized in another thread for my initial response to your "Pink pony" comment.

[cboy4]

24. Passive-aggressive question, as you know.

But I've certainly been speaking out about it.

[FrenchieCat]

39. Well, I did rec this post......and not passive-aggressively....

but aggressively.

[Politicub]

66. I haven't kept a tally of who has posted and who hasn't

So it's hard to affirmatively answer your question.

I'm passionate about this issue based on a negative experience I had with the police, so I've been posting about it.

And even if all LGBT DUers were to have an opinion it would be seen as small since we are a minority on DU.

And at the end of the day, does it matter? We are all individuals, but I can see what the OP means by how responses are trending along racial lines. But a trend doesn't mean that EVERYONE feels the same way.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

5. k&r

[HopeOverFear]

8. Sigh.

[Prism]

10. No, it's a call for awareness and respect

Bigotry is not a contest, and any view of it as such merely functions to prolong it.

[HopeOverFear]

11. Yeah I know. I changed what I said. I'm tired.

Just call me Michael Steele. Goodnight.

[grantcart]

15. What a wonderfully thoughtful response

Also the sensitive way that you approached the question from a variety of viewpoints brought a very particular adjective to mind.


I found your OP very Obamaesque.

[Prism]

19. Thank you for that n/t

[Sapphocrat]

17. ...

:applause:

[Prism]

20. Sappho!

It's nice to "see" you. I was recently turned on to your blog and only know you through that, but I'm glad you've made an appearance =)

[TexasObserver]

22. Good commentary. Recommended.

[cboy4]

25. Ding, ding, ding

:thumbsup:

Great OP

[jonnyblitz]

27. yes they were tripping over themselves to shove Melissa

Etheridge down our throats when she proclaimed that Rick Warren was really such a nice guy. She was our Bill Cosby.

[HamdenRice]

28. One part of your analysis is definitely wrong

5. ... No Democratic President would frame such an invitation by saying, "Though we may have deep differences on how law enforcement treats African-Americans, it is important for us to reach out and find common ground. The fact of the matter is that we are all against crime." Any Democratic President who attempted such a thing would be destroyed in his next primary...

In fact, almost across the spectrum of the mainstream civil rights movement, this is what would happen.

The entire civil rights movement was about getting the other side to sit down and negotiate. Even today, the anti-police brutality campaigns in most cities take exactly the position you are saying they wouldn't take. They want to talk to and educate the police, to sit on civilian complaint review boards, and find common ground because, they would say, "we are all against crime," and better police-community relations make crime fighting more effective.

Martin Luther King's main "job" was not, as many incorrectly thing, "marching." It was provoking local southern authorities through non-violent protest to sit down and negotiate.

King was much more like a corporate lawyer than he was a street protester.

One of the greatest expositors of the doctrines of the civil rights movement was the fiction writer, James Baldwin, and he wrote extensively about actually loving those who oppress you.

[ruggerson]

32. Ironic that you would cite James Baldwin in light of the context of this OP

One day we should have a discussion about exactly what obstacles Bayard Rustin faced
in his life.

[HamdenRice]

35. No, it's not ironic. For some reason, people want to erase who Baldwin and Rustin actually were

It's fine to make comparisons to the civil rights movement. What's not right is erasing the history and reality of that movement to make it fit into your pre-existing ideological needs for a certain "politically correct" position.

[QC]

41. People have been trying to erase their sexuality for decades. n/t

[ruggerson]

47. we agree - there are people actively trying to erase who Baldwin and Rustin actually were

and those people do a great disservice to humanity and history.

[Prism]

42. We're talking about what would happen today

Let's work in theoreticals. Imagine for a moment that President Obama decides he only wants to serve one term. Another Democrat goes on to win the 2012 election. Meanwhile, Sgt. Crowley becomes a cause celebre in right-wing circles. Like Joe the Plumber, but not quite such a laughing stock.

Imagine if that Democratic President invited Crowley to speak prominently at inauguration ceremonies today with the justification I laid out in the OP. Wouldn't that be really very upsetting for a lot of people? Wouldn't it be outrageous? Wouldn't you take that as a personal affront? Wouldn't you see that as a personal dismissal of the discrimination people suffer?

[noiretextatique]

71. i would hope that crowley would speak at a democratic event

because i don't know if the man is a racist. i think he definitely abused his power, and i do believe he acted in a way that has been perfectly ok for white men to act against black men for centuries. however, i agree with obama: this is a learning opportunity for an issue that negatively impacts african-americans. if crowley is truly interested in reconciliation, i would welcome him to the table.

[ruggerson]

31. beautifully articulated

very important post, Prism.

[AspenRose]

33. I've long believed that issues affecting blacks and gays specifically get the same treatment here

And sometimes from the same groups of people.

You'd have to be blind as a bat not to notice.

[DevonRex]

36. K&R. "Bigotry and discrimination are never acceptable."

[enigmatic]

37. Excellent post

I completely agree with this.

[VMI Dem]

40. There is much truth in your post. Well said.

[Uzybone]

43. Thanks for the wedgie

[ruggerson]

51. I'm not sure

what is in this OP that anyone could remotely object to. Especially you, because you're thoughtful and not a kneejerk hypocrite.

[QC]

44. Kick for the afternoon crew. n/t

[tbyg52]

46. Bravo and amen. First they came for..... nt

[Hassin Bin Sober]

48. .

:kick:

[TokenQueer]

49. Thank you, Prism.

Now, would you please go back and Journal your posts? You officially have a groupie. :loveya:

[Prism]

52. So that's what that is

You know, I never even noticed the journal function before. Hrm. That is a very useful thing. Now I'm going to have to find out how many posters I enjoy have journals, especially on LGBT topics.

I'm holding you directly responsible for destroying my Saturday afternoon :P

[TokenQueer]

90. Uh, oh...

:blush:

Sorry to destroy your Saturday afternoon. I am happy to take the heat since your journal is such a wonderful addition to the GLBT voice on DU. Thanks again for your contribution.

:fistbump:

[Alenne]

50. But he would invite him to the White House for a beer. nt

[Political Tiger]

53. Apples and oranges.

This Gates vs the cop story has been an issue for less than a week, and most of the discussion has been about how Professor Gates and/or the cop behaved and who was right and who was wrong.

On the other hand, when it comes to GLBT issues, people have been complaining about Obama specifically and have been doing so before he was even sworn in office. It's been going on for over 6 months now and long ago it got to the point where it's no longer about how gay people are treated but instead about how certain people on DU simply despise Obama and look for any reason to complain about him.

When people complain about every single thing Obama does, and especially when they complain about something that ultimately proves to be false because they heard something on some blog and jumped to a conclusion, damning Obama without any facts, people tend to no longer take these people seriously! What makes it worse is when they don't have the courage to admit they were wrong.

I mean, when the same people complain about the same things over and over and over it does get a little old! When the same people complain over and over and over that Obama is a "homophobe" or a "bigot," they should not be surprised that people are going to correct them, and even sometimes not be so nice about it.

The problem is that some DUer's have made it obvious that it's not really about Obama or queer rights, it's about THEM, and their overriding need to complain and/or get attention. You've got a small but very vocal group of people who whine and bitch simply for the sake of whining and bitching.

Furthermore, when people tell them they are sick and tired of hearing them bitch about every little thing, they play the victim card and complain they are being "silenced."

Bull! Nobody can silence you. And even if someone tells you to "shut the fuck up," which I have never seen but I have heard that complaint over and over and over, so what? Don't complain about it! Ignore them! If you feel your cause is righteous and someone tells you to shut up, give them the proverbial middle finger and keep on going, but don't complain about it over and over and over again.

Race is rarely talked about on DU, certainly not as much as GLBT rights, or single payer, or Wall Street or Iraq/Afghanistan or torture or detainee rights or abortion or any other number of issues..........

So it's about time this under-discussed issue got a little time on DU, and I don't think we need to latch onto this issue and use it to once again complain about the perceived treatment of other minorities on DU. After all, it won't be long before we back to arguing about GLBT issues, Wall Street, Iraq/Afghanistan, torture, detainee rights, abortion, etc..

I think it's high time we stop trying to pit different groups against each other and take our example from the president and sit down and have a (cyber) beer together! I suspect we all have a lot more in common than not, and if we start talking to each other instead of at each other, that will become more clear.

Rant over!

[ruggerson]

56. This isn't about a paradigm of "the gays vs Obama"

which is a totally false inflammatory construct that you perpetuate.

The OP is about relating to the discrimination we all face, even if it doesn't affect oneself on a personal level.

It's a statement for unity, common purpose and understanding.

Your post is a classic example of false division.

[Prism]

57. I think you've missed the point entirely

While the Gates incident may be fresh, the history of racial profiling, abuse of authority, and each poster's experience with it is not. It is an issue that did not magically appear yesterday and will not disappear tomorrow. The outrage surrounding the Gates incident is not buried in one man and one cop, but an entire framework in our society of how the power of the state discriminates and damages those without any recourse.

Within that is a similarity of status and purpose between all people struggling for equal treatment in our society. Recognizing that now is vital. It's easy to be dismissive of someone else's equality when the sting of discrimination is not being directly applied to you at the time the pleas are being made.

With this incident, people who have been very dismissive in the past are feeling that same sting, and it behooves us to say, "Yes, see, this is how it is for everyone in our society who has a small voice and is treated differently under the law. Take your feelings here and apply them to other subjected groups, and hopefully that will bring us closer to the same page."

It's not about Obama at all. Making it about Obama reduces a human issue to a mere political one, and in politics people often find themselves doing, saying, or advocating for things that as human beings removed from the circus of it all would not.

It's not about "pitting different groups against each other" but finding our commonalities by highlighting shared suffering. Only those with an interest in division and keeping minorities separate would categorize it as such.

As for ability to silence, well, there are a lot of ghosts around these parts, sent to the other side because their voices were unpleasant and truthful and would not back down when told that equality demands a quieter, disappeared expression.

Which you may be ok with, but I am not.

[Political Tiger]

58. Okay, I see your point.

I probably jumped the gun too soon because I was not in the best mood when I wrote my post. Earlier, I received a PM from somebody who called me a 'traitor' (although that wasn't quite the word used) "to the cause" because in their opinion they felt I was more passionate about this cop/Gates issue than gay rights, and while I tried to dismiss it, I guess it did get under my skin.

Anyway, your post was insightful and I thank you for it and the common sense you display!

[Prism]

62. That's a loathsome sentiment

Not only does it divides us, it places a giant target on the backs of LGBTers of color. People shouldn't have to choose their loyalties or see the pieces of their identities as a sports team to be cheered for or against.

Someone who uses the word "traitor" truly doesn't get it. I'm sorry that was directed at you.

[Cha]

59. I remember a post by you on Gates and

it made me feel very good, thank you, Prism.

And, I do think there should be equal rights for everybody.

[Prism]

61. It's no problem.

We're all in this together. As cliched as it is, incidents like these only serve to show that injustice against one is injustice against us all.

[Veruca Salt]

60. Great post!

I feel shared outrage with the professor. I'm not black but the gentleman wrongly arrested is and I know he was arrested because he is black and spoke his mind. I am a lesbian and I know that if I was in a similar situation and the cops knew I am gay and were homophobic I'd probably end up much like Prof Gates. Why should either of us have to tip-toe around law enforcement hoping that the officer is not racist or homophobic?

We must stop all forms of bigoted hate else we will all lose in the long run. Not speaking up when another minority becomes a victim is damaging to us all.

"First they came for..."

[Prism]

63. And not only race and orientation

Though it's easy to focus on those two things in the context of the OP and replies, the fact is women and the poor also face unequal treatment by law enforcement.

So many isms and ists to combat, when all it really is is a war against people.

[Karenina]

64. BINGO!

Thank you! :pals:

[QC]

65. It's funny how DU, for an allegedly progressive site, never, ever, ever discusses class.

It's the great taboo. It's easier to discuss incest, child sacrifice, and eating boogers here than class.

[Leo The Cleo]

67. I don't know that This is True

I know that I spoken about about class on here with many members. Also, our topics of race always bring up class and class distinctions.

[QC]

69. Post a thread about class and see how long it takes to fall off the first page.

They usually vanish within a half-hour, which is a pity, because our party's failure to deal with class has hurt us badly.

[Leo The Cleo]

70. I don't know that our party can deal with class until . . .

it deals with many of the other things that plague it. The fact of the matter is that race, gender, homophobia and so on are class issues. Another fact is that if we can't solve them, then any other "class" issues will never resolves themselves.

Republicans have done a great job of keeping racism, sexism, homophobia and others as a platform of their party and it goes right through ALL socio/economic stations. The dems haven't helped. This country has done a great job creating race-class and sex-class barriers, so even when we speak of race, gender and otherwise we still speak of class. Blacks, regardless of money are still in a different class than whites. So, when a low-brow, ill intentioned white police officer wants he can walk into the home of a prominent black professor and arrest him for being in his own home. Gays, regardless of money, can get their behinds kicked walking down the street and no one hears about it.

Class, my friend, deals with many things other than money. Now, fix the system that creates the type of prejudice which suppresses groups and the rest will fall in line. How can a person honestly try to make sure everybody has something to eat when he has contempt for all the groups that live there? Gotta start with Race, Gender, Orientation.

[noiretextatique]

72. i can't agree with your premise

there were many people here who supported the policeman's "standard procedure" against gates. i have been arguing with them for a few days. they may not have used the exact verbiage you used, but they expressed the same sentiment. gates was and idiot...gates was yelling and screaming...gates didn't cower and defer enough. since your premise is false, i can't really comment on the rest of your post.
black people face the same shit as gay people here...that's a FACT.

[Leo The Cleo]

73. I can't agree with your premise

Black dont face the same exact things. Blacks and gays face similar things. I think it is fair to say that there are differences. Gays face employment discrimination, but unless they are black they do not face the same employment discrimination that blacks face. People who are oppressed and suppressed have commonalities. People who are oppressed and suppressed also have differences. Now, I would agree that we should not let our differences divide us, but I don't think we should say that everything is the same either. Why, because different things need different strategies.

[noiretextatique]

74. i was refferring to the OP's claim that the gates incident

was denounced by everyone at du...it was not. there were people here who supported the police. i am black and lesbian...i understand racial discrimination, and sexual orientation discrimination. i KNOW very well that du is microcosm of america, replete with bigots if every stripe. post a thread about reparations and we will see the race bigots out in full force. the same thing happens with gay issues. i don't see a difference.

[Leo The Cleo]

76. Then I Misunderstood

I think you are correct. The same things do happen with gay issues here on DU, in that respect. However, when race is interjected in DU issues the line between races is very clear. But I see that you and I are in agreement, so I'll just agree.

[noiretextatique]

82. this seems to be about the hypocrisy of certain posters

and since i am not aware of who these people are, i can't comment on them.
but, many people in this thread have noticed this phenomenon, so i will take their word for it.

[Leo The Cleo]

88. Hey, I care not for inside talk

I am not sure who these specific posters are and don't care much for them. I can only comment on what was written. And based on what was written, I deal with that.

[ruggerson]

77. Where does the OP say that the Gates incident was "denounced by everyone at DU?"

I don't see that in his post.

[noiretextatique]

80. he claims there are "vast differences"

to hoe people respond to racial vs. gay discrimination. i disagree.

[ruggerson]

75. You may be missing the point of the post

Without trying to speak for the OP, his point is NOT that blacks face less discrimination than gays or vice versa. His OP has nothing whatsoever to do with competing for the title of "most oppressed."

What he IS saying is directed at certain members of the DU community (and presumably elsewhere) who when confronted with homophobia tend to immediately dismiss and diminish its importance and treat any discussion of bigotry towards gays with open hostility and contempt. Many of these same people, however, were immediately very sympathetic towards Gates and viewed the incident (correctly) as yet one more example of racial profiling of people of color by law enforcement.

The OP is addressing the hypocrisy of being sensitive to issues of racial discrimination and at the same time being completely insensitive (and openly hostile) towards issues of GLBT discrimination.

The OP is sensitive to BOTH and he is pointing out that there are far too many people who are not.

(one could make the same argument about mysogyny as well.)

[Leo The Cleo]

78. Aren't There People Insensitive To Black Issues

She clearly stated that there were DUers who were apologists for Crowley. I think it is disingenuous, at best, to assert that people are always and foremost sensitive to race. So, either way that premise is not correct. I've been on here and seen non-black gays lash out at Blacks for one reason or another. I've seen them act as if the black black community is the sole bastion for homophobia. What say you to that?

[ruggerson]

84. Of course there were DU'ers in support of Crowley

but the OP is not one of them and he did not make the claim that racism doesn't exist here or elsewhere.

Again, his OP was about the phenomena of selectively choosing which form of discrimination to be angered by and which form to angrily dismiss.

There is a segment of DU that is very hypocritical about discrimination.

[Leo The Cleo]

87. Only and Exclusively Pointed Out The Matter From One Side

The essay essentially said, "Blacks get the benefit of the doubt" and gays don't. Let's not overlook the examples. The examples were nearly in opposition to the point you are trying to make. Now, how fair and compassionate is that? Sounded like more of an indictment than anything else.

The point is that it happens on many sides and that was not the tone of the essay.

[noiretextatique]

79. no...i just disagree

racial issues are met with the same dismissive attitudes as are gay issues and women's issues. that's what i see and experience here. i get that you have an issue with certain posters, but let me assure you, DU is no more enlightened about racial issues than the rest of america.

[ruggerson]

81. I agree that DU is no more enlightened than the rest of America

but the OP didn't make that assertion.

It is specifically about certain people who SELECTIVELY object to discrimination. They are vocal and upset about group A being discriminated against, but are actively hostile to Group B's claims of discrimination.

[noiretextatique]

83. i finally got that

sorry it took me a minute to grasp that this is about specific posters. i don't know who these people are, but since you and others keep referring to them, i will have to keep and eye out for them.
i have no problem with calling out hypocrites.

[ruggerson]

85. ...

:pals:

[noiretextatique]

86. for sure

:hug: i will pay more attention.

[Prism]

89. Ruggerson laid it out well

And I see you guys had a productive dialogue about it downthread.

So, let me just say, reading some of the responses to the Gates incident over the past several days has been amazing in all the wrong ways. If there was any illusion race issues are dealt with well even in our own party, the last forty-eight hours have been a solid disabusal of the notion.

I can't figure out if some of these threads are trolling, massive insensitivity, a byproduct of privilege, plain bigotry, or a potent mixture of all of the above.

DU has been a very difficult read this week, to say the least.

[mkultra]

91. racial and GLBT discrimination are the same but different.

Both are evil, rooted in ignorance, taught in the home, and reinforced in micro circles. I think many people doubt that the depth and breadth of GLBT discrimination has and will never reach the levels seen in America from slave trade to today.

Not that any lessening of incidence makes it any less important or hurtful to the victim, nor does it reduce the need for political address.