The arrest was wrong. Crowley isn't a racist. Though correct, Obama shouldn't have commented..

[Political Heretic]

..as it fuels a political distraction.

That's where it stands. None of those statements conflict with each other.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. Crowley is a racist, and everything he's done since backs that up.

His surprise that the black man he arrested turned out to be educated, for instance.

[uponit7771]

2. Your last statement does, racial profiling is an issue and his statement on it was dead on

...because even if...even if the professor wasn't being profiled the history of racial profiling doesn't go away with the voting of a black president.

I'm not going to wear a swastika sign on my forehead in LA and expect folk not to get insulted a lil and neither should those who are looking at an unnecessary arrest of a black man do the same

[Eric J in MN]

3. It's a big problem that police can arrest anyone they feel like...

...using "disorderly conduct" or some other excuse.

I'm glad the president spoke out against the idea that the police can do-no-wrong.

Good for Obama.

[Political Heretic]

I agree, and I wish that this event would have prompted more discussion on that, without

There are lots of things Obama should speak out on. But should he speak out on all them during a press conference to focus attention on health care?

Well you tell me, look at what the story has become. Is it health care? No, Obama lost the news cycle (and the news cycle after that, and probably todays if not the rest of the week) by taking a bait question.

I think that he could have said almost the same thing or something similar in a statement issued from the White House separately from a health care presser and not gotten the stories confused. But hey what do I know, I'm just a former campaign manager and public policy expert. :shrug:

[Eric J in MN]

19. When the cable shows do cover health care, they're often misinforming anyway.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6131230&mesg_id=6131230

[Political Heretic]

38. Maybe, but you don't understand politics if you think the administration doesn't want the news cycle

to be on health care.

[Hippo_Tron]

83. Agreed

If they wanted the news cycle to be on something else they would've held a press conference on something else. Perhaps the screw up can be explained by Robert Gibbs' emergency root canal surgery.

[Political Heretic]

4. Gates didn't get arrested for not being the resident. He got arrested for being obnoxious to a cop.

That happens to most people who are obnoxious to cops that I'm aware of, including me and I'm white. Now, I think that's wrong and I think that cops regularly go on authoritarian power trips. But that's a slightly different issue than what some are making it.

That said, I'd still agree that the police acted stupidly as Obama said, though I think politically he created an unnecessary political distraction for himself by saying it. But there was a lot of race baiting going on by gates, according to the report, and according to gates' own words yesterday as reported on CNN.

Basically, I think the cop got sick of being insulted and called a racist by someone yelling and hurling obscenities at him, and given the opportunity, took the bait and arrested the man in an overreaction. There's poor behavior on all sides on this one.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

6. Forget to log out?

[Spazito]

8. ROFLMAO!

:thumbsup:

:rofl:

[Earth Bound Misfit]

99. ...I don't get it????

:silly: me, forever a newbie.:shrug:

[Number23]

109. Oh my God! That's hilarious!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[MUAD_DIB]

9. There's poor behavior on all sides on this one.

And DUers magnify it 100 fold.

[PurityOfEssence]

34. That really is the issue

People DEMAND that the nuanced and sloppy world is actually very simple and undeniable.

Those who voice any opposition or mitigation are scumbag fiends of the first order.

What's truly tiresome is how people have to out-outrage each other. THEIR outrage is greater than the mere outrage of person a. Never in the history of the human race has someone been so unfairly treated. Anyone differing is filth. Love me love me love me because I'm even more on your side than you are.

There's a nauseating self-reflexiveness to the whole thing. Gates now claims that he was "chosen" for this incident to somehow stride the world stage as the voice of professorial superiority. Crowley wouldn't back down when he probably should have. Obama had to call the Cambridge Police Department "stupid", and the Obama-is-perfect crowd has to chirp and chorus endlessly that this was a "mild" rebuke. It's a tempest in a t-ball match.

Most irritating.

[Skittles]

107. irritating?

it is just plain fucking nauseating

[JuniperLea]

10. Bing Fucking O!

Well said.

[busymom]

14. And why isn't it ok to say that both

parties overreacted? I don't understand the blind defense of any man...particularly a professor at Harvard U...regardless of the color of his skin for acting this way towards police. Gates should have behaved in a more appropriate manner and the police officer should have walked back to his cruiser.

People here see it only one way...black man=always right white officer=always wrong

There is a middle ground here and that is that there were mistakes made by BOTH sides.

[JuniperLea]

18. The poster is saying that very thing...

He said both parties overreacted.

[busymom]

22. and I would tend to agree...but

the knee-jerk reaction here is simply that it was a whitey vs innocent black man being abused issue. I think that is probably an incorrect assessment given all of the information that has been released about this.

[JuniperLea]

80. I agree...

I don't think it's about race as much as a male power play on both sides. I think both parties overreacted, and both owe the other an apology.

The thing the cop has in his corner is that he was asked by a BLACK superior to HEAD their racial profiling training. That speaks volumes.

The emotions MUST be removed from the facts, and that is clearly not happening on DU today!

[Raineyb]

25. Because the person responsible for keeping the situation from getting out of hand is the person in

power. That would be the cop in question. If he has a problem with that then he needs to find another line of work. There is no both sides are responsible middle ground here. That line of bull is only spread by people who like living in a police state who feel the need to appease cops because they're too cowardly to point out that the police work for us not the other way around and are interested in blaming the victim.

[Political Heretic]

35. You think your post is in conflict with mine but it isn't.

I agree with you.

[polmaven]

51. I think it has become

essential that the Cambridge police release the tapes they have of Officer Crowley calling in to the station. I really think that we ALL have taken sides way too early, without really knowing the truth.

Professor Gates says it happened one way, Officer Crowley says it happened another way. I am not ready to believe one or the other without much more on which to base it.

I am, though, fairly disturbed at those who are calling the woman who reported the incident to begin with names. I hope that someone would do the same if someone, (including myself) was trying to force open a door of my house.

[JuniperLea]

81. I think the person who has the most power is the intellectual...

And clearly that would be the Harvard professor. He should have known better than to loudly challenge a cop. I live in Los Angeles... anyone, of any race, is foolish beyond measure to challenge a cop... be it over a traffic ticket or a misunderstanding or any situation you can possibly imagine. Foolish.

[Raineyb]

95. He was in his house. He didn't have to defer to anyone in his own damn home

it was the cop, you know the "professional" to defuse the situation. This is not a situation where there's equal blame to throw around. Once Gates showed Crowely his ID Crowley had every obligation to get the hell out of the man's house. Gates was under no obligation to ask nicely either. The cops work for us we are not obligated to bow and scrape to them. Your attitude is part of the reason why the police think they can do whatever the fuck they want.

[katsy]

36. Not blind.

A man comes home, struggles with his door, presumably is tired after a trip.

Would I expect him to be cranky and not to thrilled to be greeted by the pigs, mistakenly, at his doorstep? Yes.

Yes I would give Professor Gates (or anyone in that position) the benefit of the doubt, and a free pass to verbally insult the morans who phucked up their job.

Give the pd the benefit of the doubt? Not so much.

They are on the job. And if they are so bloody fragile that they feel they need to arrest anyone for some verbal nonsense... they have no business carrying a gun or a badge. Cops getting vapors over being called some names for screwing up don't belong on any force. People like that are exactly the reason there have been hundreds of taser deaths, ditto having 6-7-8 year olds, pregnant people, seniors tasered. Poor little babies can't stand getting their feelings hurt.

[merh]

104. If they were just citizens then your point would be valid.

But they were not. One was a citizen, the other a servant of the people allegedly trained in maintaining the peace.

One was free to express himself how he liked in his home, he was free to exercise his first amendment rights however he liked.

The other was a paid professional that held a position of trust and had a higher duty to the citizen.

[Raineyb]

20. Being obnoxious to a cop isn't illegal.

so it's tough shit on the cop if he doesn't like it. He can always find another line of work. Stop trying to blame the victim. The person with the power to deescalate this situation is the one who is at fault for it ending badly. That person is the asshole cop.

[Political Heretic]

46. Do people ever fucking read? I said that right in this post, and in the OP ffs.

Jesus Christ people.

Said right in that that arresting someone for being obnoxious is wrong. My OP says the arrest was wrong.

[fishwax]

72. and, further, complaining about discrimination isn't obnoxious

:grr:

[Raineyb]

94. Indeed.

Just using the given frame. Not agreeing with it.

[fishwax]

71. it's not obnoxious to ask for name and badge number or to raise questions about discrimination

[freddie mertz]

74. Important point here.

Gates was in his house, and was within his rights.

I'm sick of the "blame the black guy" routine.

[fishwax]

77. agreed, on all counts

"I'm sick of the "blame the black guy" routine"
:applause:

[brentspeak]

91. I agree

For not kissing a cop's a$$ during a traffic stop, I was gifted with two additional (bogus) tickets. Me and the cop are both white. Some cops (not all; just some) unfortunately believe that its ok to abuse their authority with regard to civilians who dare open their mouths and express displeasure with how they're being treated by the cop.

[merh]

100. Being obnoxious to the cops?

Would you have the code section to that law or ordinance?

While considering the question, please consider the language from SCOTUS:

Today's decision reflects the constitutional requirement that, in the face of verbal challenges to police action, officers and municipalities must respond with restraint. We are mindful that the preservation of liberty depends in part upon the maintenance of social order. Cf. Terminiello v. Chicago, supra, 337 U.S., at 37, 69 S.Ct., at 910 (dissenting opinion). But the First Amendment recognizes, wisely we think, that a certain amount of expressive disorder not only is inevitable in a society committed to individual freedom, but must itself be protected if that freedom would survive. We therefore affirm the judgment of the Court of Appeals.
Houston v. Hill, 482 U.S. 451, 471-472, 107 S.Ct. 2502, 2509-10, 96 L.Ed.2d 398 (1987)

The First Amendment protects a significant amount of verbal criticism and challenge directed at police officers. "Speech is often provocative and challenging. . . . (But it) is nevertheless protected against censorship or punishment, unless shown likely to produce a clear and present danger of a serious substantive evil that rises far above public inconvenience, annoyance, or unrest." Houston v. Hill, 482 U.S. 451 citing Terminiello v. Chicago, 337 U.S. 1, 4, 69 S.Ct. 894, 895, 93 L.Ed. 1131 (1949)

[Cha]

5. Tough shit..Obama was asked and he

answered and I'm glad he did.

[JuniperLea]

7. I think it all boils down to a couple of hot headed men...

Trying to prove who has the bigger penis.

I'm an intellectual, I make more money than you... I've got a badge and a gun and you have to do what I say.

There are three sides to every story. Guy #1 has a story, Guy #2 has a story, and then there is what actually happened.

I try not to form strong opinions about anything unless I have all the facts. I don't think it's possible for anyone on DU to fairly judge the situation. My knee jerk opinion is that both men were out of line and both should know better. That said, Obama should have STFU.

[Political Heretic]

15. I agree. And my family and I have been shaking our heads at DU since this happened.

It was totally predictable that DU would go all knee-jerk and immediately start making all or nothing either/or claims and scream racism - most people doing it haven't even tried to get any information. They've read one or two headlines and now they're aremed with whatever they already assume happened.

It's sad, but entertaining I guess.

[Spazito]

24. There is a very important difference imo...

One of the "hotheads" brings with them the full force of the law while the other is acting legally within his own home. To portray both Dr. Gates and Officer Crowley as equal in any way is to be beyond disingenuous, imo.

Officer Crowley, BECAUSE he carries with him the full force of the law, is obligated to use that authority with discretion. He did not do that.

[JuniperLea]

78. And anyone with an ounce of intelligence...

Which is something a Harvard professor has in droves, knows that it's just plain stupid to challenge an officer of the law by yelling and carrying on, even if they are absolutely in the right on the matter. It's common practice for many police forces to never, ever leave a scene of a call when someone, anyone, is heated. When you disagree with a cop, whether it be over a traffic ticket, or a misunderstanding that leads to an arrest, the smart thing to do is to STFU, follow directions, and then take it up with the-powers-that-be after-the-fact. To get into a heated verbal altercation with a police officer, regardless of the situation, is just plain S-T-U-P-I-D. Peri-fucking-od. Following directions, even if they are out of line and utterly ridiculous, and then going after what is right later, shows that YOU were in control of yourself, and the other party was not. It puts a hell of a lot more cards into your hands and out of the hands of the cop.

[emilyg]

59. +1

[AndyA]

11. I do think the best response on Obama's part would have been

"I don't know all the details regarding this, I'm sure it's still being looked into, so it's probably best that I refrain from making any comments at this time."

[JuniperLea]

13. Exactly...

That is PR 101.

[Aramchek]

12. The arrest was stupid. Obama was correct. You don't get to decide when he can or cannot comment.

[JuniperLea]

16. Of course no one gets to decide...

The point is he should be more careful. He gave the RW a hell of a lot of fodder to use against him with this. It served no purpose to say something now.

[ProSense]

32. "He gave the RW a hell of a lot of fodder to use against him with this."

A lot of fodder to make fools of themselves (in progress). How did that Palin/Joe the Plumber BS work out?

People seem to always link media-driven distractions with long-term negative consequences for Democrats. This crap will end up the same as all the other media hype, hurting the Republicans and exposing the fact that race issues (see the whole outrage, beginning with the question) are still a factor in this country.

[JuniperLea]

79. They made fools over themselves with the Dean Scream too...

And it still worked. When Obama said "stupidly" and "cops" in the same thought, he no doubt drove some Blue Dogs and Independents and others away from the fold.

[Political Heretic]

21. You're last sentence is silly.

I "get" to have opinion about it just like anyone else.

And of course, all you have to do is look around to see that I'm right.

Here we are, right in the middle of critical health care debate and what is the story for the THIRD NEWS CYCLE?

Even the administration says that they regret this becoming a "media distraction." Welp, that's what happens when the President comments on a local story before having all the facts.

Now, CNN and MSNBC are carrying Gibb's press conference live because they are going to ask more questions about Gates. You are completely ignorant about politics if you think that's what the administration wants the story to be.

The administration itself today has said they regret the distraction. They feel they made a mistake and yet people here can't stand that thought.

[Aramchek]

29. yet Obama stood by his comment

sure, you get to have an opinion.
but that doesn't mean it counts for anything.

you may have the opinion that this post belongs on the greatest page.
but look where it stands in reality.

[Political Heretic]

33. Actually, the white house today said that they regret the distraction

The official quote was "they regret the comments only because of the media distraction it helped create."

That's good, I agree with them - the comment itself isn't wrong. I never said that. I said just the opposite in face. But the President saying it at a presser on health care was an example of the president accidentally taking a bait question - and they know it

They know it was a mistake. They're even saying so. And now here we are, news cycle three, and cable news is going LIVE to Gibb's presser because they think the Gates thing will come up. Only a completely idiot would think that's what the administration wants the focus to be right now.

[Aramchek]

37. you don't get it. The media has the problem. Not Obama.

what is a 'completely idiot'?

could it be a definition of someone who would deny the truth just to please the Media?

[Political Heretic]

41. No you don't get it. The administration still wants the news cycles on health care

Whether the media has the problem or not.

[JuniperLea]

82. It reminds me of Bush admitting there were no WMD...

And the throngs of Freepers who continue to make noise to this day about how all the WMD were moved to Syria, and other stupid remarks. They can't let go of defending Bush on this issue even after Bush himself says there was no WMD.

[Gman]

17. Cops like Crowley are the reason we called them pigs in the 60's and 70's

because that's what they were then and are now.

[Political Heretic]

23. That's irrelevant to my post.

[BlooInBloo]

26. Fuck cops. Fuck people who blame citizens for cops doing wrong.

[Political Heretic]

28. That's great. Also irrelevant to my post, since that's not what I'm doing.

As I said, Gates got arrested for being obnoxious to a cop, and that's not right. But its also not the story of a saint and a sinner.

Getting arrested is what happens to most people who are obnoxious to cops that I'm aware of, including me and I'm white. Now, I think that's wrong and I think that cops regularly go on authoritarian power trips. But that's a slightly different issue than what some are making it.

That said, I'd still agree that the police acted stupidly as Obama said, though I think politically he created an unnecessary political distraction for himself by saying it. But there was a lot of race baiting going on by gates, according to the report, and according to gates' own words yesterday as reported on CNN.

Basically, I think the cop got sick of being insulted and called a racist by someone yelling and hurling obscenities at him, and given the opportunity, took the bait and arrested the man in an overreaction. There's poor behavior on all sides on this one.

[kestrel91316]

27. Only your first statement is correct. Sorry. And no, I'm white, but thank you for asking.

[Political Heretic]

30. I didn't ask. And all one needs to do is look at the information and the lost news cycles

to show that you're wrong.

[jefferson_dem]

31. I grant you point #1 and #3. I'm less sure about point #2 but you are probably correct.

n/t

[Cha]

42. Do you know how

many times..it's been said, "Obama shouldn't have said something" and it turns out to be the best thing that could have happened?

Neither do I exactly but I'm always glad when he answers truthfully..especially with the big brouhaha when he said repukes shouldn't listen to rush limpbaugh if they want to get anything done..and there was all this :scared::scared: going on here with bill press chiming in that Obama shouldn't have gone there.

Shoulda Woulda Coulda..It is what it is.

[Political Heretic]

44. Not many.

[Cha]

89. Yeah, like you would

know anything about what's important with PRez Obama.

[CakeGrrl]

39. 1. Yes. 2. You have no way of knowing that. 3. Obama has

acknowledged and regretted the distraction, but has NOT expressed remorse over his statement, and I'm glad for that.

And the President NEVER implied Gates was a racial issue. His statement about profiling was carefully and distinctly separated by the words "separate and apart from". If people conflated the two, it's their misunderstanding.

[Leo The Cleo]

40. YOU ARE WRONG. Obama was right for commenting . . .

It gives me great pride as an American to see that the most powerful man in the world would comment strongly on an abuse of power. I am a person that considers myself a follower of Jesus. When I see abuses I try to speak up. Republicans talk about how Universal health care is a government invasion. They say it will be an abuse of power. However, when the government comes into a man's home then arrests him for asking questions and being upset at their callous behavior they stand by it. This was, is, and always will be an abuse of power. People shouldn't have to go for it. For progressives who, in my opinion, love the freedoms and the rights of citizenship to say there is no reason to speak on it is a shame and a disgrace.

No injustice, big or small, should go without being confronted. To not speak about this give permission to not speak about gay rights. It gives permission to not speak about the equal rights based on race. It gives permission to not speak on the rights of the elderly. It give permission to not speak on the rights of women. It gives permission to not speak on the rights of children. Progressives are part of a movement for social activism, justice and equal rights. It would be an abomination to waiver or turn ones back at any instance.

[Political Heretic]

43. I'm not wrong. Hell even the administration says they regret comment

- only because of the media distraction it created, and I agree with them on that.

Obama can comment on lots of things in our society, but that doesn't mean its politically the right time at a press conference on health care.

Robert Gibbs today: "the White House regrets the comments, but only because of the media distraction it created."

They regret the comments because of the distraction. What are we arguing about?

[Leo The Cleo]

47. He didn't apologize for what he said. He apologized for the Media

The fact of the matter is that the most powerful man spoke about the abuse of power by government. Now you can tip-toe around it and lawd government abuse if you'd like, but that can simply be for you and the republicans.

[Political Heretic]

52. He hadn't said anything, Gibbs did. But now, Obama has said something and it pretty much backs me

So... :)

[TheKentuckian]

45. The arrest was wrong, I have no idea if Crowly is a racist but am certain he is an authoritarian

shitbag, and I'll agree that the comment allowed political distraction but that distraction is a demonstration that someone with the clout of say the President needs to address it. I can't believe the cop is being defended or the voices that preach subservience to authority or that Americans on the whole are such spineless quivering chumps.

Who the fuck cares about healthcare if you have no sanctity in your own home and your freedom of speech ends at a blue uniform?

[Leo The Cleo]

49. BINGO

[Political Heretic]

50. You: he's an authoritarian shitbag. Obama: he's a excellent officer and a good man

So... you disagree with Obama on this then.

[TheKentuckian]

58. I don't check with Obama before I state my opinion anymore than he consults with me.

Obama is trying to reign in a shitstorm created by authoritarian taint lickers, M$M, racists, Republican political nonsense, and white people who don't want to face what is really going on.

I am not.

I don't have any pressure to pretend that every officer is excellent or even passable. I'm not a fan of walking this back any but I don't own the corporate media and can't make them do their fucking jobs and so Obama is kowtowing to an extent to allow the cycle to close. However, i see no real benefit to doing so as they will spin whatever they want in any event and those that are sooooo fucking offended by a fair and candid remark will remain offended.

[Political Heretic]

48. HEY WOW OBAMA ON NOW SAYING EXACLTLY WHAT I'VE SAID.

Imagine that.

[Leo The Cleo]

53. Guys Like You

Who don't like when people speak truth to power push people to do stupid things. Push people to back peddle. Good job. It's great to know that there are apologists for people who abuse power. GOOD JOB!

[Political Heretic]

54. Guys like me... you mean the President, since he just said the same thing?

[Leo The Cleo]

55. GUYS LIKE YOU

[Political Heretic]

56. Guys like me, are saying the same thing President just did.

Since we just said the same thing. :)

[Leo The Cleo]

67. No! Guys Like You Demand That The President Censor The Truth

Good Work!

[Political Heretic]

73. "guys like me" aren't demanding any such thing.

Obama is more than free to weigh in on this issue. But POLITICALLY there was a much smarter way to do so that didn't completely stomp all over the health care issue and throw it out of the news cycle for days. That's not what the administration wanted to happen, its not what any of us should want to happen.

That was the mistake. The mistake was not the president having an opinion on what happened in Cambridge. But he could have and should have kept the stories separate, and not let one stomp on the other.

The Cambridge question at a press conference where 100% of the questions had been on health care and the entire press conference was about health care was a BAIT QUESTION. The president took that bait and politically he shouldn't have. He could have issued a statement supporting gates, even saying the policy "acted stupidly" separate from this conference and the white house would have been better able to keep the stories separated and not let them compete for the same news cycle.

That's just good politics. And Obama is a politician playing in a political area - we need and want him to practice good politics and this was a goof.

You seem to be conflating two separate issues - the politics of saying what he said WHEN he said it, and the "moral" sort of question of saying anything at all. He has every right to say something, and every right to weigh in as president and defend his friend for that matter - but political, just about everyone with any political background (which includes me) and including the administration itself agrees that fielding that question off the cuff in the press conference was a MESSAGING MISTAKE.

[Fire1]

57. BULLSHIT!! Indeed Crowley IS A RACIST!!! n/t

[DevonRex]

60. So, Obama has to sit down and shut up? Good grief.

[Political Heretic]

62. Of course not. But a press conference on health care isn't the place to take a bait question

And then make off the cuff comments that distract from your message for the rest of the week.

He could have issued a statement separate from his health care conference and it would have kept the stories separate in the media.

This isn't rocket science people. This is basic campaign/political common knowledge. If you ask the administration if this is how they wanted this weeks' news cycle to look they will answer you "absolutely not."

[DevonRex]

64. Obama doesn't shy away from questions. I like that in a president.

[Moochy]

70. He should SAVE HIS POWDER

Gee where have we heard that recommendation, and from the same DUers too!

There is no racism ever bad enough that a conservative racist DU'er will step up to defend.

[Hippo_Tron]

84. He doesn't have to do anything, but...

If he wants the news cycle to be about health care then yes he has to sit down and shut up.

[DevonRex]

88. Oh good lord.

:eyes:

[Hippo_Tron]

105. You roll your eyes at me for stating a fact

It is a fact that the news cycle will not be about health care when the President gives a strong soundbyte on another issue. I'm not saying it was bad for him to make the statement. I'm merely stating that the consequence of his statement is that the news cycle has not been about health care.

[Raineyb]

96. Apparently he'd be more comfortable if the rest of us did too.

"Geeze, we elected one of you president can't you all shut up about things you don't like so we don't have to pretend to do something about it."

We should not have to put up with that attitude here.

[ecstatic]

61. He's the President and can comment on any f*cking issue

he wants. :eyes:

[Political Heretic]

63. So can I, and I don't even need to be president.

That doesn't make it smart, or politically advantageous. Look, go argue with the administration if you want, they're the one's now saying that the regret this media distraction.

The president can most certainly weigh in on a story like this. But should he have done it as an off the cuff response to a completely bait question in the middle of a press conference entirely about health care in which every question had been about health care? No. They administration even agrees on that part.

If Obama felt this was an important issue for him to weigh in on, the White House could have crafted a well-thought statement and issued it to the media seaprate of the health care cycle, keeping the stories separate and not letting on stomp on the the other.

This is basic, incredibly simplistic politics 101, folks.

[Cha]

90. Yeah, but he's a whole lot

smarter than you are.

[Phx_Dem]

66. One would think!

:crazy:

[Milo_Bloom]

102. We just hope he would be smart enough not to...

especially when he admittedly didn't know all the facts.

[Phx_Dem]

65. I think it is ridiculous and wrong to say that the President is not

allowed to respond to a reasonable question for fear the media might turn it into a circus event. That's the media's fucking problem for having attention deficit disorder and enaging in tabloid journalism. Having to walk on eggshells because the media are a bunch of embiciles is what's stupid.

Since there was no crime committed, this was a discussion point only, not the fucking scandal as the media has tried to create. So no, the President was absolutely not wrong to answer a reporter's question.

:crazy:

[Political Heretic]

69. How's that news cycle going for the white house this week?

Answer (according to THEM, not me): not the way they wanted.

Politically, it was a dumb move, and they know it - and now have said so.

If Obama wants to weigh in on something like this, he most certainly can - but he could do it in a way that doesn't step all over the health care story. Simple politics.

[Phx_Dem]

75. Same as it's going for the GOP's anti-health care message!

And, again, who's fault is that? THE MEDIA. Because they are fucking stupid tabloid journalists.

There's a reason Jon Stewart, the comedian, bested them all as the most respected journalist.

[Political Heretic]

85. Too bad. It's politics and it includes knowledge of the media.

Just whining about how the media sucks doesn't change the fact that it is real and that politicians have a job to control news cycles where they can.

They white house knows this. It's not a big deal. They just took a little misstep in terms of political strategy, but at least they were right on the argument itself while they made that little political misstep. They'll recover.

[Name removed]

68. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[freddie mertz]

76. I disagree only on number 3.

Obama had every right to comment, especially once we acknowledge that he was correct.

I found his remarks to be refreshingly honest.

Others took a different view, many of them for political purposes, others just out of knee-jerk defense of, well you know what I mean...

[Political Heretic]

87. Over the course of the morning I've clarified "Obama shouldn't have commented" to make clear...

...that Obama shouldn't have commented in the way that he did right then and there - he took that reporters total bait question, and he knows it. It derailed the white houses desire for news cycles on health care, which they have also admitted.

But Obama most certainly could comment on the case if he wanted too - but a little more thought would have allowed the white house to do it in such a way that the two separate issues did not step on each other. Whether that would be a statement released from the white house, or a different kind of statement or conference - no political administration likes it when their message gets stepped on by a different news cycle... in this case they accidentally did that to themselves, they know it, and it will all be ok.

[freddie mertz]

92. Perhaps, and good for you

But what I have learned is how much the "anything to ratchet up the ratings" media and even a significant element here at DU are deeply, passionately committed to a denial of white racism at almost any cost.

I found the whole spectacle to be shocking and depressing.It also helps explain why we may never get health care reform or anything else decent enacted in this hopelessly lost and deeply disturbed nation.

That is what I have learned today.

[Life Long Dem]

86. The arrest could still be right.

Maybe Gate's did get out of hand? And maybe the cop got out of hand as well? And maybe a simple sorry could have been enough to end it? I would think someone who instructs others on racial profiling they would have been more polite to Gate's in this incident? :shrug: Just saying.

[Cha]

93. Yada Yada Yada..

I'm glad it happened just the way it did.

[Politicub]

97. The conduct was unbecoming of a public servant

It doesn't matter if Crowley was racist or not.

[Cali_Democrat]

98. "Crowley isn't a racist"

Do you know him personally? Didn't think so.

[Milo_Bloom]

101. Plenty of acting stupidly to go around

Crowly acted stupidly for arresting someone after knowing they were in the right place.

Gates acted stupidly for continuing to fight after learning they were there based on a call of breaking and entering.

Obama acted stupidly for offering an opinion when he admittedly didn't know all the facts.

[zulchzulu]

103. If a Freeper has to defend a cop that arrested someone at his own home, I'm happy

It convinces me that the sheer hypocritical level of moral subjectivism is the mental fuel for a Freeper.

If a black cop had arrested a white man in his own home who showed ID, I'd bet they would want the black cop hanged outside of town.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

106. How do you know that Crowley ISN'T a racist? Just curious...

[jenmito]

108. Really? Why did Crowley say he finally spoke out because he was "tired of being called a racist"?

And why was his answer to the reporter's FIRST question about how he felt about Obama's response at the press conference, "I didn't vote for him" with a smirk?

And if Obama DIDN'T speak out, he wouldn't be human NOR the leader he is.