cleveramerican
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Sat Jul-25-09 07:48 AM
Original message |
I'm not pissed at the Blue dog dems |
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in a way I'm kind of proud of them. Standing in front of the Obama health care express has to a scary thing for many of these largely unknown house members.
Put yourself in their shoes for a moment Your a moderate dem maybe swept into office by a hugely popular president. You think your fiscal concerns regarding legislation were not addressed or even considered.
do you: get in line/ go along and get along/ please the president or do you: put your responsibility to represent your constituents first and oppose the president, risking more than you will ever gain?
If Obama can't convince his own party, it doesn't deserve to pass. Exactly how its supposed to work in my view.
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trumad
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Sat Jul-25-09 07:50 AM
Response to Original message |
1. Or---do you bend over for the Health-care lobbyists who are plowing your |
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Edited on Sat Jul-25-09 07:51 AM by trumad
campaign treasure chest with lot's of cash.
Me thinks they could give a rats ass about their constituents.
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cleveramerican
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Sat Jul-25-09 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #1 |
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you can't possibly think that, the folks you voted for, supported, worked for, swept into office or is it juts easier to think they're corrupt,rather than sincere. they were corrupted pretty quick I'd say.
I think they are as sincere as hell
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trumad
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Sat Jul-25-09 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #5 |
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Have you seen the Health Care campaign contributions to the Blue Dogs who are blocking health care?
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cleveramerican
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Sat Jul-25-09 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #6 |
10. so all republicans and many many democrats are all corupt |
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you sound a teensy bit paranoid.
how many sincere member of congress exist in your view?
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tekisui
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Sat Jul-25-09 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #10 |
12. No, all repukes and many dems are corporatists. |
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They are defender of the uber-rich status quo.
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cleveramerican
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Sat Jul-25-09 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #12 |
14. how many are corporatists? |
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Not sure how to split that hair between corporatist and corupted how many hard working honest and sincere members of congress are there?
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tekisui
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Sat Jul-25-09 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #14 |
17. I'd say around 25% represent the people. |
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The rest represent big business. It is obvious when it comes to debating and voting on legislation. I have thought for a while that we have a two party system, but the parties are not D and R. The parties are Corporatist and Progressive. The Corporatist still have a large majority. That is why, even with a Democratic majority, we can't get real progressive, people-centered legislation. It is the nature of the current election-funding system. It is so expensive to run and win, that the members become dependent on corporate sponsors and indebted to them. I don't think they are all corrupt, just cowards and lazy.
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patrice
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Sat Jul-25-09 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #17 |
invictus
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Sat Jul-25-09 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #17 |
101. You are absolutely right. n/t |
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Edited on Sat Jul-25-09 03:11 PM by invictus
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debbierlus
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Sat Jul-25-09 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #12 |
97. Exactly. If people would look at the policy they support instead of the propaganda they spew |
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The MAJORITY of all Washington politicians are CORPORATISTS.
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Enthusiast
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Sat Jul-25-09 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #10 |
27. He is right the fuck on! |
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They are doing what the insurance industry wants because of campaign contributions. And they are doing this against the interests of their constituents.
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salguine
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Sat Jul-25-09 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #10 |
30. Other than Kucinich, Wexler, Weiner and Waxman, yes, they are all currupt. Every |
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last one of them. Those four are the only ones I've seen who consistently refuse to sell out the best interests of the People.
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LaydeeBug
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Sat Jul-25-09 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #30 |
40. and Feingold and Sanders. nt |
salguine
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Sat Jul-25-09 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #40 |
63. I stand corrected. Make that six. Thanks LaydeeBug. |
karynnj
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Mon Jul-27-09 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #63 |
117. There are many more - I am not going to name them because no matter how many I named there are |
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Edited on Mon Jul-27-09 09:41 AM by karynnj
likely far more than I know of. I would even say my Republican representative, who I rarely agree with, is not corrupt. He votes the way he does because his values are different - which is why I vote against him election after election. The vast majority of legislators are actually making less than they could outside politics. (Not to mention, it is beyond silly to think anyone "bought" people as wealthy as Kerry or Kennedy.)
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patrice
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Sat Jul-25-09 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #40 |
69. Are we counting Boxer or not? Just asking, 'cause I don't really know whether we should. |
cleveramerican
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Sun Jul-26-09 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #30 |
trumad
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Sat Jul-25-09 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #10 |
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I'm talking about the amount of money that the Health care industry is contributing to the Blue Dog Dems...That's all.
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Warren Stupidity
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Sat Jul-25-09 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #10 |
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The corruption in washington is pervasive. A representative in a competitive district spends his entire career raising money for the next election, which is at best two years away. The cost to run is huge. That you do not understand in the least just how corrupt washington is makes your naive OP at least comprehensible. Go and learn something about our Republic of Greed.
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LaydeeBug
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Sat Jul-25-09 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #10 |
39. and you sound a little pollyanna. That's just the way it is. Also, I notice those fiscal |
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conservatives aren't REAL concerned with military spending. They say we can't afford health care while happily shelling out thousands for a toilet seat.
Let's just agree that you're dead wrong on this.
This is political posturing at the expense of the health of the American People. period.
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MADem
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Sat Jul-25-09 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #39 |
62. Don't use the toilet seat example--that is so damn old, they were still using the P3 as a sub hunter |
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when that overcharge took place. That's Reagan era, not today. There was a wrench, a coffee maker, and a few other absurd line items in that scandal too.
Update your anecdote with an F-22 comment, or a Halliburton/some other contractor-remark, if you want to be viewed as current, and not repeating old saws. FWIW, I don't argue at all that military spending is poorly controlled and monitored.
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LaydeeBug
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Sat Jul-25-09 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #62 |
64. Since the lack of healthcare predates my so-called antiquated comparison |
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I find your point about being 'current' to be moot. But thanks anyway.
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MADem
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Sat Jul-25-09 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #64 |
68. Back in those antiquated days, health care was actually affordable. |
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It wasn't until Reagan was in the saddle for awhile that costs started spiraling out of control, and coverage got terribly sketchy. So no, it wasn't really moot.
Hey, all I'm trying to do is help your argument. You're arguing about how to sell a buggy whip in the internal combustion era, is all. But whatever...
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LaydeeBug
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Sat Jul-25-09 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #68 |
92. What can I say? I'm an old fashioned LayDee Bug... |
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besides, horse and buggy is MUCH MORE environmentally friendly than internal combustion anyway, and green *IS* all the rage...
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patrice
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Sat Jul-25-09 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #62 |
70. ? is? or isn't? "poorly controlled and monitored." |
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and P.S. You should see what's going on with some Medicare and Medicaid money. Overall, people are happy with Medicare, but some of the costs are almost completely "poorly controlled and monitored."
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MADem
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Sat Jul-25-09 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #70 |
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I do not argue that it IS poorly controlled and is poorly monitored. If it were not poorly controlled, it would be well controlled. If it were not poorly monitored, it would be well monitored.
It's clear as a bell if you slow down and read each word.
Medicare and Medicaid have the same issues, and corrupt doctors using the poorest of the poor to skim money (charging for procedures not done, e.g., and giving patients a kickback some time--or not) are part of the problem.
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patrice
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Sat Jul-25-09 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #62 |
82. "I (never) argue (for or against the proposition) that military spending is poorly controlled |
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and monitored."
"I (never) argue (for or against the proposition) that military spending (isn't) poorly controlled and monitored."
Since arguing can be for or against, it does appear that "is" or "isn't" is six of one half-of-a-dozen of the other.
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MADem
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Sat Jul-25-09 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #82 |
85. In the context of the back-n-forth, the unsaid bit is 'your assertion that" |
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but if it makes you happy, let me say unequivocally that I think the DOD has a lot of work to do in both controlling and capping expenditures. They're slobs at best, and crooks at worst.
Is that sufficiently plain?
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patrice
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Sat Jul-25-09 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #85 |
87. Sorry! the OLD habits of a technical writer here. Can we "kiss and make-up"? |
MADem
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Sat Jul-25-09 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #87 |
88. Sure! I probably could use a few lessons in technical writing! |
patrice
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Sat Jul-25-09 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #88 |
90. You work with people from so many Different disciplines that you get a little obsessive about |
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ambiguity; it's a curse, really, but explained by the fact that technical writers often write for Users who ALSO vary widely. I still write every day today, for a different audience, but still a wide variety of people, everyone from the kitchen to the boardroom.
P.S. I almost always enjoy your posts, MADem.
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MADem
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Sat Jul-25-09 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #90 |
91. I think some of the Chinese outfits ought to hire you and pay you very well! |
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I was putting together a schlocky little storage shelving unit (made in China, of course) the other day with an instruction booklet that was written in some of the worst Chinglish I've ever read!! It was a good thing that the concept was simple, because the directions were useless! Worse than useless--if I'd followed them, I might have messed up the works!
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Auggie
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Sat Jul-25-09 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #10 |
47. They're beholden to those who bankroll their elections AND |
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who promise to look after them after they leave office.
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dgibby
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Sat Jul-25-09 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #10 |
51. And you sound a whole lot naive. n/t |
Capn Sunshine
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Sat Jul-25-09 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #10 |
99. THEY ARE OUT TO KILL OR BANKRUPT ME |
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I've grown pretty paranoid about this, but it doesn't mean there isn't a giant leech fastened to my healthcare system trying to profit off it at my expense.
Since 1994, the last time, health care COSTS (read insurance premiums) have gone up 200%.
They're spending a million dollars a day just on anti- healthcare fix ads. Who's paranoid ?
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mmonk
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Sat Jul-25-09 07:50 AM
Response to Original message |
2. I hope you belong to a small club. |
Auggie
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Sat Jul-25-09 07:54 AM
Response to Original message |
3. You should be -- they're screwing you big time |
John Q. Citizen
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Sat Jul-25-09 07:54 AM
Response to Original message |
4. We know single payer works. It contains costs and provides quality care to all. The Obama plan is |
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Edited on Sat Jul-25-09 08:14 AM by John Q. Citizen
experimental. It's constructed to insure the flow of dollars to the health insurance criminal organizations who are killing 18,000 people a year every year in the US, people who don't have to die except for lack of treatment, so that the insurance racket can take their cut. The Obama plan will cost at least a trillion and a half dollars more than a single payer plan and provide less care over 10 years.
Of course, that doesn't mean the Blue Dogs get it.
So I hear where you are coming from, maybe sort of. Maybe not though too. Perhaps you could expand on your thesis.
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cleveramerican
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Sat Jul-25-09 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #4 |
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I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt. I owe them that much. The election, the act of campaigning builds the trust I have in them I don't throw that overboard just because they won
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John Q. Citizen
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Sat Jul-25-09 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #21 |
33. Wow, you would be my first employer to give me carte blance, the check book, and the keys to the |
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Edited on Sat Jul-25-09 08:58 AM by John Q. Citizen
kingdom to do anything I decided I want to do with zero oversight.
Do you have any job openings? Need your lawn mowed, or anything at all?
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cleveramerican
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Sat Jul-25-09 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #33 |
44. the benefit of the doubt is hardly carte blanche |
quakerboy
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Sun Jul-26-09 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #44 |
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is enough to lay to rest any doubts. When one adds polling and information on the positions of the people, that nails the coffin shut. The lies and misdirections toss the dirt in atop the grave of any doubt.
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patrice
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Sat Jul-25-09 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #21 |
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Blind acceptance is what got us into this MESS and is quite possibly nascent fascism.
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rateyes
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Sat Jul-25-09 08:00 AM
Response to Original message |
7. My rep is a blue dog dem, |
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or, IOW, a DAMNED REPUBLICAN. Blue Dogs are all assholes.
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patrice
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Sat Jul-25-09 08:01 AM
Response to Original message |
8. What's moderate about dancing the RW Religious Fundie jig? |
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Edited on Sat Jul-25-09 08:02 AM by patrice
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paulk
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Sat Jul-25-09 08:01 AM
Response to Original message |
9. I'm not pissed at them, but I do think they are |
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misreading their constituencies and the direction the country is headed.
The bluedogs are still preferable to the conservatives they replaced - at least that's the case here in CO, where John Salazer is serving instead of a right wing fundy wackjob like Scott McGinnis... that said, it is Obama's job to convince these folks to back him, perhaps by playing the sort of hardball that Bush was so good at - like, support my legislation or you don't get Fed funding for your favorite water project... which is how Bush got Salazar to vote for his budget.
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tekisui
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Sat Jul-25-09 08:04 AM
Response to Original message |
11. Pu-lease. Blue dogs are nothing but republicans who are willing to |
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talk. Nothing noble about them. If they want to obstruct and act like repukes, they should change their party affiliation.
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cleveramerican
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Sat Jul-25-09 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #11 |
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to "Obstruct" (your word) when they disagree. am I wrong about that? I remember many many post talking about how congress shouldn't be too deferential to the president(W at that time)
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tekisui
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Sat Jul-25-09 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #16 |
18. They are protecting the insurance companies at our expense. |
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Nothing noble about it. The Democrats sailed to winning elections, because the people supported their platform. Now, those same "Democrats" are obstructing the will of the people.
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mkultra
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Sat Jul-25-09 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #16 |
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When you obstruct at all, you generally risk simply serving as a wedge. When you obstruct because the bills threaten the insurance industries profit levels, which is the case here, you are being a puppet.
This is about subjective opinion, of which you seem to be on the wrong side of.
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HughMoran
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Sat Jul-25-09 08:07 AM
Response to Original message |
13. I guess - if one is a Republican |
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It's not like they are Republicans, there is a time to fight and a time to work with the majority view in your party.
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Amos Moses
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Sat Jul-25-09 08:13 AM
Response to Original message |
15. So these Republicans with a D at the end of their name |
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are to be admired? :crazy:
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cleveramerican
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Sat Jul-25-09 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #15 |
19. they are not republicans, although... |
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that would make it easier for you.
these are the same people you hoped would win, voted for(I presume)cheered their victory. These are democrats put there by democrats. thats just the facts.
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tekisui
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Sat Jul-25-09 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #19 |
20. They are conservatives. |
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I have no use for them. They gave Democrats a majority in number only. Not in agenda or platform. They are not liberals or progressives. They are conservatives, little distinguishes them from conservative repukes.
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Enthusiast
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Sat Jul-25-09 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #19 |
31. But they turned out to be |
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DINOs. Democrats in name only. They suck! Why are you arguing for the GOP point of view. That perspective is all we see on TV and here you are agreeing with them.
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Warren Stupidity
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Sat Jul-25-09 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #19 |
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talks like one
hardly a difference.
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dgibby
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Sat Jul-25-09 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #19 |
54. And they are co-opting the Democratic Party |
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just like the fundie zealots co-opted the republican party. And they are getting help from the DLC and DINOS.
They're choking over funding health care, but didn't have a damn bit of trouble funding 2 unnecessary, illegal, and immoral wars.
Wake up!
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patrice
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Sat Jul-25-09 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #19 |
72. Do you actually live in a Red district? I gauran-freaking-tee you that Democrats DON'T get 'er done |
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all by themselves. Blue Dogs are bread and maintained by Republicans (Churches especially) to control what happens in tightly balanced districts.
You're starting to look pretty naive.
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cleveramerican
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Sat Jul-25-09 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #72 |
104. I live in a very blue district |
annabanana
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Sun Jul-26-09 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #19 |
108. They were republicans until they realized there was a more powerful |
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republican in their district... so they changed party to jump on the gravy train...
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flpoljunkie
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Sat Jul-25-09 08:31 AM
Response to Original message |
22. How about do what's right for your constituents--put their interest before the insurance industry? |
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Edited on Sat Jul-25-09 08:32 AM by flpoljunkie
Stand up for their interests. Your constituents will thank you when they see real health care reform works. That is why the Republicans and the insurance companies are pulling out all the stops to kill real health care reform.
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patrice
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Sat Jul-25-09 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #22 |
73. The damned numbers game!!! They think like: This is how the vote/poll splits |
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Edited on Sat Jul-25-09 10:41 AM by patrice
typically something like n D, n+ R, n- U, ergo we MUST go toward the n+.
They almost totally ignore any possibility of anykind of emergent properties in these highly complex social systems, especially if n- is whatever they have decided is "weak". They IGNORE anomalies and the potential for emergent events, so, guess what? None of the other possibles have much of a chance of happening and as time goes on the circumstances under which something ELSE could happen must, of necessity, become more and more extreme, thusly confirming their initial bias in the first place. In short, It's a Rackett.
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xchrom
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Sat Jul-25-09 08:32 AM
Response to Original message |
23. in this particular instance -- moderates have been the enemy of both the good and the perfect. nt |
cleveramerican
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Sat Jul-25-09 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #23 |
24. most of them can be convinced |
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they're just not there yet
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patrice
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Sat Jul-25-09 08:40 AM
Response to Original message |
25. Just in case you don't get my point about the AFA jig . . . |
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Edited on Sat Jul-25-09 08:41 AM by patrice
Say, your Blue Dog acquiesces to the will of the Insurance Companies/American Family Association/______________ and kills genuine Health Care with a thousand "small"/moderate/"reasonable" wounds and, say, a bunch of Blue Constituents decide that they've HAD IT with their Blue Dog and either don't show up to work the campaign and/or vote for a BD candidate because s/he DOES NOT REPRESENT THEM . . . what happens to the BD in such a scenario . . . ?
S/he MUST move to the Right, MUST support more RW Fundie Hate-doctrine in order to stay in office. In other words, if the BDs don't do what we want on this, we can kiss Progressive, People-based, Communitarian Values in public policy good-fucking-bye. In short,
THIS is It!
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cleveramerican
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Sat Jul-25-09 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #25 |
28. progressive legislation is always a uphill fight |
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same as it ever was Obama was not the most progressive candidate in the last primary. He won anyway, Blue dogs know this
Websters define conservative as "assumes the safest position"
Hate to break it to you, but thats most of us, in both parties Opposing the president is the least conservative position for these members right now
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patrice
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Sat Jul-25-09 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #28 |
37. True, but that doesn't mean that we should just settle for whatever we can get. |
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Edited on Sat Jul-25-09 09:26 AM by patrice
Just because "that's the way things have always been" does not mean that's the only way things can/should be. Especially when it's more than abundantly clear who owns our representation.
My Blue Dog: NO QUESTIONS ASKED about funding a $40 billion @ month WAR, but when it comes to something that could make the lives of Americans better, it'll be killed by a thousand small cuts.
We live in a system that is SOCIALISM for the transnational MIC, Inc., Wall Street, and Insurance Companies and a dog-eat-dog rat-race for the rest of us.
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patrice
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Sat Jul-25-09 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #28 |
45. P.S. Hey, "clever", the definition of insanity/stupidity: doing what you've always done |
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and being angry about getting what you always get.
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cleveramerican
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Sat Jul-25-09 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #45 |
patrice
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Sat Jul-25-09 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #50 |
57. So, how's your personal situation? How much of your IRAs/401Ks have disappeared in the last 8 years? |
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Edited on Sat Jul-25-09 09:41 AM by patrice
Have you ever seen a loved one suffer and die without the benefits of a medical system that are more than readily available to others?
How often have you been un-employed over the last 9 years?
How do YOUR kids' futures look?
Got clean air? or can go where the air IS clean whenever you want?
Do you trust your food supply not to contain chemicals such as, e.g., one that is commonly used in detergents to emulsify dirt?
Where do you expect to spend your last years before you die?
How old is your car? How much do you have to put into it to keep it running? Is Mass Transit available where you live?
What are you looking-forward to in your life?
Do you own your own home?
Are you allowed to love whomever you love?
If you do own your own home, can you afford major home maintenance, such as paint or replacement windows?
How much vacation do you get each year?
How many hours do you work each week?
What's the lowest wage you ever worked for?
. . . .
I could go on and on, but you get the idea.
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patrice
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Sat Jul-25-09 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #50 |
60. Could you answer just a few of my questions, please? |
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Edited on Sat Jul-25-09 10:00 AM by patrice
Preferably the ones that have answers that would show that you DO in fact know what life is like for a whole lot of people in this place we refer to as America (but which isn't, in fact, a nation, because there is no agreement amongst us as to what it means to be American. There is NO Social Contract that = America. Nothing but a rat-race governed by a bunch of servants to Mammon who think little of the rivers of blood and viscera they place at the feet of their golden idol Capitalism).
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cleveramerican
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Sat Jul-25-09 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #60 |
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if thing get better I will benefit if things get worse I will suffer I have health insurance, I have a job.
This is about whats good for the nation, not whats good for me personally.
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patrice
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Sat Jul-25-09 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #67 |
74. All cliches are suspect. You know what? There are a whole hell of a lot of "americans" who don't hav |
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Edited on Sat Jul-25-09 10:39 AM by patrice
e the luxury of saying it's not about me/mine, especially when so many others are so heavily subsidized, on our backs, to make it about themselves.
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cleveramerican
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Sat Jul-25-09 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #74 |
83. The whats-in-it- for-me constituency |
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always comes last. I hope.
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patrice
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Sat Jul-25-09 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #83 |
84. That's pretty simple minded. It's all relative to your position in the system. Some MUST defend thei |
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Edited on Sat Jul-25-09 11:46 AM by patrice
r own self-interests, others don't NEED to, because the system is doing that for them quite handsomely, thank you.
So, if the group decides it is in it's interests to, say, go kill and help to kill 1,000,000 people who didn't need killing; or if the group decides it isn in it's interests to violate my Civil Rights by telling me whom I may and may not Love; or if the group decides it is in it's interests to tell me that I may not decide to have an early-term abortion, I'm not supposed to resist and struggle for what I need and what I know is right?
You are not a nascent fascist. You are a fascistic absolutist.
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cleveramerican
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Sat Jul-25-09 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #84 |
95. are these members struggling for what they think is right? |
patrice
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Mon Jul-27-09 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #95 |
114. Some of them are, but they get shut-out by the DISTINCT ADVANTAGE of established powers |
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Edited on Mon Jul-27-09 08:36 AM by patrice
habitually engaging in self-fulfilling prophecies, or plane laziness and intellectual inadequacy, or outright assuming that Might Makes Right/Blasphemy.
It's called Group Think and it's FATAL, perhaps even to the point of Extinction under current circumstances.
"Oh, but don't worry you all; good Americans are all going to that Better Place that we know is OURS by Divine Right, so just give all of that suffering to 'Jesus'/daddy and don't try to change anything/grow/create, 'cause Daddy/God loves you and nothing else matters."
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patrice
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Sat Jul-25-09 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #83 |
86. All cliches are VERY suspicious. nt |
cleveramerican
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Sat Jul-25-09 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #86 |
94. if you think they are all bought... |
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Edited on Sat Jul-25-09 02:38 PM by cleveramerican
and paid for what are you doing cheering their election? Obama was a senator is he corrupted?
That might work for you but I can't think like that I can't simultaneously work within the system at making things better, and assume everybody I speak to is corrupt. Thats a luxury YOU have
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patrice
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Mon Jul-27-09 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #94 |
113. I don't think everyone in the system is corrupt why should you? |
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Most of us work withink system that are "corrupt" to one degree or another. Each of us must make our own decisions about how much s/he will/will not sacrifice to those systems. It is the nature of pro-action to work ahead of the curve a bit, to construct other possibilities that, big or small, whether they fail or succeed, trigger other possibilities, so that it is possible for anyone else in the system who isn't a SLAVE to Mammon to experience "sympathetic vibrations/variations" and I don't mean that in anything like the new-agey sense.
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doc03
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Sat Jul-25-09 08:46 AM
Response to Original message |
26. This isn't a dictatorship, just because they disagree |
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on certain things doesn't mean they are Republicans. My Rep is a Blue Dog Democrat and he voted against the energy bill because of Cap and Trade. This is an area that depends on coal and heavy industry and the overwhelming majority of his constituents where against the Cap and Trade. We are 2/3 registered Democrat but we elected a Republican Bob Ney several times because he went against his party and voted against NAFTA. He said it would be a job killer and he was 100% right. Congressman Charlie Wilson (D) went against his party and voted against the energy bill and I think he will be proven right if that one ever becomes law.
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high density
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Sat Jul-25-09 08:55 AM
Response to Original message |
29. They're trying to sell us out to the corporations |
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Obama won and these unknown people from hayseed districts are trying to impose their opinions on the rest of us.
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cleveramerican
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Sat Jul-25-09 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #29 |
38. the "unknown" won too |
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they know their districts. I would not trade losing the majority in the midterms for this one fight
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high density
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Sat Jul-25-09 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #38 |
52. I don't give a shit about their districts any more than they care about me |
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They are trying, unwisely, to override the goal of the President of the United States who is a member of their own party.
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Warren Stupidity
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Sat Jul-25-09 08:57 AM
Response to Original message |
32. "Your a moderate dem" - then you're not a blue dog. |
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Oh yes indeed how scary it was for these corrupt fucks to lard up their campaign chests. How scary it was to face absolutely no repercussions for their stand against the interests of the people and their party and for the interests of the corporate kleptocracy. They have risked nothing.
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cleveramerican
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Sat Jul-25-09 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #32 |
35. their popularity in here seems to be dropping |
Warren Stupidity
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Sat Jul-25-09 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #35 |
41. What? DU in general has never supported the conservative wing |
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of the democratic party. 'Their support' here could hardly drop. It is only the occasional naive post like yours that results in any argument at all on this issue. There is pretty much a consensus view here that the 'blue dog coalition' is effectively part of the other party.
Your post is stunningly naive.
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cleveramerican
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Sat Jul-25-09 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #41 |
46. your cynical view is passe' |
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I used to view things your way I changed The cheers here were nice and loud when they won
You were wrong to assume they would all move left upon election.
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patrice
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Sat Jul-25-09 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #46 |
48. "cynicism" based upon experience is Realism. LOOK where we are. HOW did we get here? |
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Edited on Sat Jul-25-09 09:18 AM by patrice
We were sold down the river to the basest, most self-centered, blaspheming, idolators in "our" country. Look at how campaigns are financed. We have Socialism for trans-national corporations, the Industrial Military Complex, Insurance Companies, BigPharma, and Wall Street in general and literally a dog-eat-dog rat-race for the rest of us. How STUPID is it to continue to support those who WORK against your best interests.
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cleveramerican
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Sat Jul-25-09 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #48 |
56. These are capable professional politicians |
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Edited on Sat Jul-25-09 09:38 AM by cleveramerican
They know their districts They are people of high calling,not hucksters on the take. I wouldn't want to trade the majority for this one vote. I think I owe these democrats the benefit of the doubt.
so, I'm not pissed at them.
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patrice
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Sat Jul-25-09 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #56 |
65. "professional politicians" = |
cleveramerican
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Sat Jul-25-09 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #65 |
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Edited on Sat Jul-25-09 02:57 PM by cleveramerican
but This is our system These are democratic members of congress. part of our majority 1 in 5
I do not think 75% of the members are corrupt. anybody who does has never been close to it. Thats just a way too easy excuse
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patrice
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Sat Jul-25-09 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #35 |
43. It's been balanced on a hair ever since the Iraq War Resolution.The only thing holding it up is |
Honeycombe8
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Sat Jul-25-09 09:28 AM
Response to Original message |
53. You make a point, albeit a weak one. At least those Dems have balls, is what you're saying. |
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Yes, you make a good point on that score.
They cannot vote for a "liberal" healthcare bill w/o at least putting up a fight, because their constituents don't want them to.
I totally disagree with their stance. It is close to the Repub stance. If there ever was a time to stick together, now is it.
BTW, those blue dogs did not get swept into office on Obama's coattails, for the most part, I think. Bill Nelson predates Obama in the congress. Jim Webb was always gonna make it and was very popular in his state. The crew cut guy from Montanta or wherever...he was always gonna make it.
Any Dems swept into office on Obama's coattails were more likely not moderates. At least I'm pretty sure about that.
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patrice
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Sat Jul-25-09 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #53 |
59. Right on! Crossover is an extremely tricky phenomenon. nt |
Nite Owl
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Sat Jul-25-09 09:35 AM
Response to Original message |
55. Oh yeah they are so interested |
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in 'fiscal responsibility' that they gave $ush all the money he wanted for his wars with no accountability. They are hypocrits, might as well join the other ones in the GOP and stop playing games with us.
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Blue_Tires
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Sat Jul-25-09 09:43 AM
Response to Original message |
58. i thought the blue dogs were stalling because of the abortion provision |
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and not fiscal concerns??
either way, don't be too proud of them -- it's not like they are making a stand on principle or anything...they just serve different masters, nothing more....
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spanone
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Sat Jul-25-09 10:01 AM
Response to Original message |
61. blue dogs are democrats in name only. you back the president. i'm pissed. |
cleveramerican
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Sat Jul-25-09 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #61 |
75. 1 in 5 members can't be ignored |
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we are not talking about 1 or 2 members
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democracy1st
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Sat Jul-25-09 10:23 AM
Response to Original message |
71. bro plz go study history you don't have a clue about what ur talking about |
cleveramerican
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Sat Jul-25-09 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #71 |
76. I'm talking about this week |
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and I'm right. Obama has to convince them,win them over, thats his job. its 1 in 5 members its not two holdouts
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democracy1st
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Sat Jul-25-09 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #76 |
100. blue dogs are really repubs that have worked out a deal to keep liberals in check |
cleveramerican
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Sat Jul-25-09 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #100 |
103. another possibility is... |
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they know they would get killed back home if they did go for it. So, in order to improve their chances for re-election, thus preserving our majority,They had to oppose. Sorry Mr President I can't be with you on this. all I'm saying is they know better than me or you how popular it is in their districts.
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democracy1st
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Sat Jul-25-09 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #103 |
106. they represent conservative districts |
patrice
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Sat Jul-25-09 11:00 AM
Response to Original message |
77. a rackett defined: "exactly how it's supposed to work". nt |
DevonRex
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Sat Jul-25-09 11:02 AM
Response to Original message |
78. If you're not pissed you're on the wrong board. |
Politicub
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Sat Jul-25-09 11:03 AM
Response to Original message |
79. Why have a party if we can't unite to tackle our country's biggest issues? |
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If we don't get health care reform now, we're not going to get it for years or ever. And while the blue dogs are "standing up to the president," millions will continue to go bankrupt or die early due to lack of healthcare coverage.
So screw them and their self indulgent behavior.
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BklnDem75
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Sat Jul-25-09 11:12 AM
Response to Original message |
81. Somehow.... I'm not surprised |
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Your stance on other issues seem pretty consistent with this stance.
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Hutzpa
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Sat Jul-25-09 11:58 AM
Response to Original message |
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lost for words......
:yoiks:
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Sebastian Doyle
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Sat Jul-25-09 02:29 PM
Response to Original message |
93. Fuck the BlueBalled cowards, and fuck the DLC |
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If you want to be a goddamned Repuke, go do so in THEIR party. Not in mine.
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debbierlus
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Sat Jul-25-09 02:43 PM
Response to Original message |
96. Put their constituents first?! Excuse me while I go vomit |
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Blue Dog Dems are Republicans with a D after their name.
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depakid
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Sat Jul-25-09 03:12 PM
Response to Original message |
102. If they had a lick of sense, they're realize that they're the very folks who will lose their seats |
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should they stand in the way of health care reform (among other things that would benefit their constituents).
Trouble is- they're none too clever, and apparently are unable or unwilling to stand up and show the voters why these bills will help them. Instead, they play along with Limbaugh and the lobbyists.
The consequence of which means out the door they go.
To which I say good riddance.
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quakerboy
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Sun Jul-26-09 03:11 PM
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TheKentuckian
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Mon Jul-27-09 12:30 AM
Response to Original message |
111. Of course not, it seems they're on your side. |
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Edited on Mon Jul-27-09 12:31 AM by TheKentuckian
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Waiting For Everyman
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Mon Jul-27-09 03:54 AM
Response to Original message |
112. Maybe we should veto their health care right back. |
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Then the next time a Blue Dog goes to a doctor, we'd see if they still think this system doesn't need fixing.
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ellie
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Mon Jul-27-09 09:10 AM
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GivePeaceAchance
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Mon Jul-27-09 09:17 AM
Response to Original message |
116. That theory works fine but where if falls apart in media outlets are workig against the healthcare. |
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Edited on Mon Jul-27-09 09:20 AM by GivePeaceAchance
Just on Obama's words alone this should be moving through smoothly, I would say. In industrial nations where coporations have been kept in check and not allowed to amalgomate to where they are too powerful things really aren't quite so difficult.
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harun
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Mon Jul-27-09 10:54 AM
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118. You have to ask the correct question: "Are the Blue Dogs doing this |
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for fiscal responsibility?" or "Are the Blue Dogs doing this for a massive increase in campaign contributions?" http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0709/25289.htmlBecause you sure as hell don't hear any of them talking fiscal responsibility when it comes to military spending.
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hileeopnyn8d
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Mon Jul-27-09 11:44 AM
Response to Original message |
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by the same clever American, who told us we need to be nicer to Republicans. And warned us about how terrible it would be if we end up with "Democrat healthcare" <-----exact quote
:crazy:
I haven't figured out what your angle is yet, but I have seen where your sympathy lies.
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