Obama wants our schools to be more like South Korea

[proud2BlibKansan]

The life of a South Korean child, from kindergarten to high school, is dominated by the need to excel in standardized entrance examinations for college. The system is so demanding that it is credited with fueling the nation’s outstanding economic success. It is also widely criticized for the psychological price it exacts from young people. Among young people 10 to 19, suicide is the second most common cause of death, after traffic accidents.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/13/world/asia/13cram.html?_r=2

While most South Korean high school graduates are enjoying their winter vacation, others will be hitting the books. Students who do not fare well on university entrance exams enroll in cram-schools, where they study seven days a week, for 50 weeks straight. Despite all the time and money spent on extra schooling, many South Korean parents are not satisfied with the country's education, and they make great efforts to have their children study abroad.

http://www.wwenglish.com/en/voa/stan/2008/12/2008122029207.htm

For example, in South Korea, it is intensely competitive to get into a prestigious university. Suicide rates unsurprisingly spike around the time of midterm exams for high school students. There were at least five such suicides reported in 2005. At a public rally to mourn one of these victims and to protest the pressure-cooker conditions forced upon them in high school, 400 students and supporters cheered one student's speech: "We are not studying machines. We are just teenagers."

http://english.ohmynews.com/articleview/article_view.asp?at_code=390145

[glowing]

1. Also, not everyone is programmed to perform as a math or science genius.

Artists, music, craftiness.. these talents make society nicer... and we underapreciate the beauty of the people gifted with these talents.

[TheCoxwain]

86. plus our kids also get schooled in truthiness -- take that korea !!!

[MichiganVote]

2. Then he better start working on the needs of the families cuz' they're a mess

[vaberella]

4. Actually it would work if they improve the public schools and extend the operation hours.

Open it where students can stay at the school until 10pm for kids with parents who work late, of course providing the extra care needed. Also it would keep kids off the streets and preoccupied for most of the week.

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. Kids need to be in bed long before 10 pm

So do some teachers.

[vaberella]

21. Agreed, however we live in a society where parents work two jobs.

Maybe if everyone lived like Leave It to Beaver kids would be in bed long before 10pm. It would be better to have a supervisory/authority figure watching the kids for the parents due to this unpleasant factor. Further more, it would engage the kids to keep a certain system. They could have cots placed in the school for naps until parents arrive. My Catholic school did for a nominal fee per month but they stayed open until 8pm and on some days 9pm. I was hoping they would extend it to weekends, but they didn't.

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. Kids need to be AT HOME in their own beds

I don't mind having schools open till 7pm but not 10pm. That's far too late.

[MichiganVote]

25. Yup.

[vaberella]

42. Once again...you're ignoring the key factor their awake....Parents aren't home.

So you would rather have the kid running amok at home by themselves? You've got to be kidding me.

[proud2BlibKansan]

66. I have many kids whose parents work at night

They are cared for at home by grandparents, parents and babysitters. Bottom line - they are in their own beds.

[MichiganVote]

24. Has to be a community program, school barely have money for summer school.

[proud2BlibKansan]

27. And I am not holding my breath until a community agency comes forward to do this

[MichiganVote]

29. Their funds are extremely limited too. Schools are not day care and that's what some want 24/7.

[vaberella]

45. Again, my school did it for a small fee because they realized their limitations.

However that fee provided volunteer workers (students who want to be future teachers) as basically babysitters after class. There was an organizer who was paid with a few senior workers, and they helped the kids with homework and any tutoring lessons. Actually in some cases the older kids (in the school) would volunteer like myself.

[MichiganVote]

47. One word....liability. The plan you propose should rightfully be rejected by all schools.

Lady...get a daycare.

[vaberella]

51. Whatever...n/t

[vaberella]

44. As I stated my Catholic School when I was in elementary did something of the sort.

So I'm not understanding why you're holding your breath.

[MichiganVote]

48. First off, how many years has it been since you were in elementary?

Secondly, what makes you think that public versus private schools do not have restrictions that make your proposal untenable? Thirdly, even in your Catholic schools today, each and every one of your volunteers must be checked for a criminal record. If that is not happening, your school, the children and the staff are at risk. That takes time, that takes personnel, that takes money. What you are suggesting is a program, not a girl scout group.

Its up parents to handle the day care needs of their young, not a school.

[vaberella]

50. I haven't been in elementary school for years, but what does that have to do with anything.

My school is still doing it since I was a substitute there. They just don't have the extended hours as I proposed and they were given permission to do so, or they still wouldn't be doing it to this day. Further more, the proposal I have is not fully enacted by them. Lastly, when doing reform you can lift and modify some restrictions within the case of reform----so I don't get your point.

[proud2BlibKansan]

52. What restrictions can be lifted?

[MichiganVote]

53. And I'm at a loss to understand your point of view..so we'll agree to disagree. n/t

[vaberella]

43. That's true. My school was a Catholic school so they had parents paying small fees.

It worked really well when they had a full load of students. The area had a lot of suffering children because of parents working many jobs and or staying late from work.

[MichiganVote]

54. This sounds more like a charity and that is not what public education does.

[donco6]

75. 10 p.m.?? That would warrant a call to social services.

What's the point of parents at all?

[vaberella]

3. That's great because I've been advocating 12 hour school days 6 days a week for years.

Ever since I was in elementary school. I was the only one in my elementary school who advocated for it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. Well thats a surprise - NOT

LOL

[donco6]

76. No wonder. That explains a lot. n/t

[woodsprite]

7. Actually, wasn't it Bush (and his brother) who started the mess

of 'no child left behind' and linking mandatory federal testing grades to federal funding. Before that, my daughter had a very good educational experience. After the beginning of associating funding with standardized federal testing outcomes, the experience has gone downhill rapidly. To the point that our son has been 'taught to the test' for his entire education from 2nd grade on (he's going into 4th). He got a break in K-1st because they didn't do the federal testing. From January to May he prepped and took daily/weekly practice tests and writings, took the state test (5 days), Dibbles testing, Map testing, other state assessment that lasted 4 days. Homework most nights takes us from dinner to bedtime to get done. He goes to a normal public elementary school. During the week there is no time for 'extras' in the evening family fun. He is in one handbell group because he wanted to do something 'musical' and the school does not let kids in the chorus until they're in 4th grade, and then it meets over lunch - not a regularly scheduled music class. Music class is for music history and theory.

I got a call from his homeroom teacher that told me something was wrong with him and she didn't understand. He scored a 208 in December for his one reading test (and won an award for most improved) and in May he scored a 198. They had to take the 198 because they take the most recent score, not the highest. I didn't understand the 198 because he's been doing so well. The teacher told me that he 'just stopped taking the test' and said he wasn't doing anymore. She said she didn't understand. I told her I felt it had to do with burnout from CONSTANT testing from Christmas break to now.

My daughter is thrilled because she will never have to take another state writing test again after last year (10th grade). Thankfully she did well (94th percentile in Reading/Writing and 97th in Math). The 10th grade state test is what sets your diploma level for 12th grade. Makes no sense at all. Dipshit politicians!

My son had a teacher who went bonkers over stress (literally - she's not there anymore). She overreacted to the fact that we didn't feel that he needed a 'scribe'. She wanted him to have a scribe to read his exams and write his answers down for him because she kept telling us he would fail and their jobs depended on the kids passing the state test. We did not get him a scribe and he passed with a 4 and a 5 (3 is passing - 5 is the highest grade you can get). But she was literally panicked over the fact that we told her and the school counselor 'No'. She was literally screeching and her voice was breaking when she was telling us that the teachers have to have the kids testing at 4s and 5s by 2014.

One thing he wasn't tested on - spelling! UGH!

OK - vent over! I don't think anything Obama is going to do will be worse than what Bushy and his brother did. Wasn't it Neil that made all the money off the curriculum and reading texts for NCLB?

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. Yes you are right about the Bushes

My district now spends more time testing than teaching. I have taught for 30 years and have never seen such a horrible program that completely ignores what is best for kids. Makes me ill.

About that scribing - nothing wrong with it and it won't affect his scores. It might take the pressure off. I'd go for it if I were you. :)

[woodsprite]

12. One of the retired teachers told us that it was a common way for

the school to 'justify' their special ed curriculum. Toward the end of the year, they are usually looking to balance the minority students in the program with non-minority for reporting justification. She said he was probably selected as an easy pick because his reading scores were a bit low at the start of school. He hates writing, so he doesn't try hard unless he has to (like it's a test) so a scribe was an easy thing to justify. We've done this year by the 'suck it up' method. You have a test where you have to write - suck it up, do your best, and we expect you to pass!

So far, that's worked with him, and he does quite well with the exception of writing samples where he has to write directions. We're working on that this summer since he'll need that for science and math next year.

Our teacher friend said that grades K-3 you learn to read, in 4-12 you read to learn.

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. You need to focus less on the big picture and more on what's best for your child

The test scores tell you nothing. The most important thing for you as a parent is to get him through the testing experience with as little stress as possible. So if that means having a scribe, go for it.

[berniebern]

9. good point

SC is good at that. I'd like to see more data on achievement but no doubt their system excells.

[proud2BlibKansan]

10. So does their child suicide rate

:eyes:

[janx]

68. And you're blaming this on longer school days?

That doesn't make any sense.

[stray cat]

11. or India or China or Japan - good idea. US kids have to compete for jobs

with these kids from other countries who are better trained. No one is going to give them a job because they think they deserve one for being born in the US.

[pampango]

13. You're right, but many want to stop the competition with those countries through tariffs and visa

restrictions, not seek to successfully compete with them. That way we don't have to compete with anyone beyond our borders. If our educational system is not as good as those of other countries, we'll be able to hide that fact since we won't have to compete with their graduates anyway. ;)

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. Aren't they better off as emotionally healthy adults?

And if they commit suicide from the pressure?

[dmallind]

16. Are South Korean adults emotionally unhealthy?

What exactly is wrong with incentivizing academic success? It's not like South Korea executes those who cannot excel.

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. Did you even bother to read the articles I posted??

Kids are KILLING THEMSELVES because of this pressure to succeed academically in South Korea.

Gee, I think the emotional well being of a DEAD adult is sort of significant here.

Or do you think it would be okay for our child suicide rates to go up as long as those test scores rise too?

[chrisa]

18. And that's worse than our system now, where...

In some towns and cities, more than half of High School populations drop out and put our country further behind? Education reform is badly needed.

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. Gee, yes, I think we can call SUICIDE worse.

Silly me.

[chrisa]

62. Where did I say suicide is better?

And secondly, nobody just commits suicide because of education. Stop being so simplistic.

Heaven forbid we actually challenge kids in this country.

[proud2BlibKansan]

64. Keeping kids in school for 12 hour days and year round is too intense

They are children. And yes, this kind of pressure to succeed does indeed lead to suicide.

There is a huge difference between challenging kids and placing unrealistic pressure on them.

[dionysus]

92. where did obama propose to have kids in class 12 hours a day year round? all he did was mention a

longer school day.

[hedgehog]

20. I am a mechanical engineer, which means I took and passed

classes in subjects that would make most people's eyes glaze over. I'm considered to be fairly intelligent, but I don't have my son's abilities in computer science, my daughter's abilities in drawing and calligraphy or my sister's eye with fabrics. Thanks to the kid down the road who runs a produce stand, I gorge on just picked fruit and vegetables from June to October. I drive more safely because some one drives the truck to re-paint the lines on the road every summer and gets up at 2AM to run a plow in the winter.

We don't need a system which produces 5 million physicists each year, we need a system that allows each and every person to be awarded for contributing what they do best. If you want your toilets scrubbed, shouldn't you see to it that the person scrubbing toilets have a decent house, a dependable car and pleasant leisure time?

What we have now is a system that does a fair to good job preparing people for the most prestigious professions and which discards other people. Somehow, we need to reform that system to meet each child's potential without falling into the trap of a caste system (the doctor's child becomes a doctor, the plumber's child a plumber.)

[invictus]

26. Exactly!

[dana_b]

30. different talents and what, I think seven types of

intelligence? you're absolutley right. Right now our country is so focused on technology that the schools have been forced to focus on math and science with a little English thrown in. Testing to those specific subjects but not everyone will excel in those fields.

the thought of going towards a more South Korean system is terrifying to me. Yes, we may be more competitive in some ways but at what expense?

[hedgehog]

31. Yet simultaneously, engineers and IT people are out of work.

What happened to all the engineers who worked for the Big 3? Engineers were looking for jobs 30 years ago and the situation hasn't changed since then. Occasionally there is a big story about how much engineers make right out of school. What no one hears is that a lot of people don't find jobs in engineering, that those salaries tend to flat line early and that a 40 year old engineer with experience working for one employer has a hell of a time convincing any other employer that that experience is transferable.

But that's a story for another day.

[dana_b]

33. true!

my nephew got a job with Boeing right out of college and was making $60,000/yr. He worked there for a couple of years and is now off doing missionary work in Japan (don't ask), but I wonder what it will be like for him when he gets back here and tries to get another job.

[anonymous171]

49. +1. nt

[tabatha]

23. Maybe Obama was influenced by his mother ---

who made him get up at 5am? for study.
It paid off very well for him --- but that may be more because of his brain power.

[Dinger]

28. Well He Won't Get That Without A Fight (nt)

[FrenchieCat]

32. Well, let the debates commence!

Seems like he's always up for a good debate.
Finally, perhaps this country can start discussing these issues,
because as we know, Education certainly does need to be overhauled,
because like our health care system, it can't go on as it is.

[BlooInBloo]

34. I love American teachers actively advocating in favor of American idiocy...

At least it makes sense of what they've been doing kids in school - it's on *purpose*.

[PVnRT]

82. I'm really getting sick of your generalizing bullshit

My mother has busted her ass teaching otherwise mostly apathetic students art at a rural high school for 30 years now, alongside plenty of other teachers doing their best to teach students who would really rather be anywhere else. My wife tried to teach science, only to give up because the school neglected safety, lab space and virtually everything else she needed just to do her fucking job. But according to shitheels like you, that's her fault for, I suppose, being there.

What's your idea? Nothing but standardized tests all through high school, I suppose? Yeah, that'll make kids smarter, since we all know standardized tests measure true intelligence.

Oh, and it's "doing to kids in school," Mr. Smart Guy. Even dumbass proles like me who had to suffer through the ravages of public education know that. Maybe you should have paid attention in school instead of whining and bitching about all the mean old teachers who refused to just give you A's, leading you to become the burned out, bitter, worthless sack of shit that you are.

[dionysus]

84. LOLOLOL bloo must have struck a nerve...

:rofl:

[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dionysus]

89. oh merciful heavens, how will i ever cope...

[Name removed]

90. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

91. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PVnRT]

93. Yes, because I had good teachers

The same teachers you, Bloo and the rest the Obama Cheerleader Brigade think are worthless scum.

[Phx_Dem]

35. Wanting kids to get a good education now means working them to death?

Dumbest thing I've ever heard.

[BlooInBloo]

36. Yep - to teachers, no less. That's who's teaching our kids.

[Political Tiger]

37. Obama is right!

My best friend is a teacher in South Korea and he tells me the difference between how learning is views in this country and S Korea is astounding. Over there, learning is valued, while over hear learning is treated like a burden. In S Korea, parents play an active role in their children's education, while in this country most parents can't be bothered.

Teacher's are treated much better in South Korea, and make a lot more money than their American counterparts.

As for the suicide thing, I think that's more of a cultural phenomenon than anything.

[depakid]

38. I'd like to see year round schooling and more effective tracking

Kids lose too much knowledge over the summer- and not every kid is suited for or would be happy in a 4 year college. For example, our best friend in America never finished high school- but he can design and build a custom house- along with everything in it, from the ground up.

One of brightest guys I know- he's amazingly well read, more so than me. Reads every night. Dude can get through Pinchon or something like Finnegans Wake, no worries. Recently I gave him a little hard science to muck around with (as he likes science fiction- I said here, try this). A short bit on Wildlife and Ecosystem Dynamics. He got it easily and discussed it as cogently as any grad student might.

Thing is- he doesn't much like classrooms, and falls asleep at office jobs.

Nope- he likes "doin' things." Building things. That's what he does.

There are a lot of kids like that, and it seems to me- the US system doesn't serve them very well.

[vaberella]

46. High-Five. Practical teaching is the most important teaching method I think.

That's why during the summer, I actually found the programs----because my parents weren't interested, to keep me engaged in school. Just to give you an idea, I took summer school classes when I was on the Honor Roll and in AP classes---just to keep up to date during the summer. I also haven't met many people who went to Summer Math Camp, like I did.

[donco6]

77. Tracking? Like what kind of tracking?

When someone says tracking, I envision shop class or home ec. Or perhaps the European system of testing at early grades and funneling kids into career tracks based on what they did in 8th grade. Is that what you mean?

[PVnRT]

80. Year-round schooling won't work for rural schools

Many of the kids in those schools need the summer off to work on the farm.

[janx]

39. When and where did Obama say that he wants our schools to

be more like South Korean ones? :shrug: Am I missing something?

[FrenchieCat]

40. Can you provide us with where you are coming up with this headline of yours?

because otherwise, it makes it hard to respond to what you are saying in an intelligent manner....
after all, what good is there in jumping on this President without some kind of context as to why folks should be jumping on this President? It would make one seem be acting stupidly, to simply respond like participating in one of those pavlov experiments!

[proud2BlibKansan]

41. So your previous comment slamming our schools was not made in an intelligent manner

I also take it you missed his little speech yesterday detailing more of his plans to destroy our public schools.

[FrenchieCat]

55. I'm not sure what you are refering to,

but what I do know is that making simplified links that aren't really there
is not going to help you win a debate in the long run.....although it might bait
those waiting for an excuse to dump on this administration to do so.

[proud2BlibKansan]

56. I am referring to this post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8552412&mesg_id=8552791

And here is his reference to South Korea:

"If they can do that in South Korea, we can do it right here in the United States of America," Obama said.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/10/obama-education-plan-spee_n_173405.html

[FrenchieCat]

58. In reference to that first link, please tell me about what I said that

you disagree with....



As for the So. Korean reference, why did you choose to twist what was said into so much more?

Here's the quote....

Obama also wants kids to spend more time in school, with longer school days, school weeks and school years _ a position he admitted will make him less popular with his school-age daughters.

Children in South Korea spend a month longer in school every year than do kids in the U.S., where the antiquated school calendar comes from the days when many people farmed and kids were needed in the fields.

"I know longer school days and school years are not wildly popular ideas, not with Malia and Sasha," Obama said as the crowd laughed. "But the challenges of a new century demand more time in the classroom."

"If they can do that in South Korea, we can do it right here in the United States of America," Obama said.

His quote is restrictive to only that one aspect of So. Korea's educational policy; a longer school day......although you have deliberately chosen to make it about every aspect of So. Korean education. Why are you doing that? What's your motive?

[proud2BlibKansan]

59. You said: "Education certainly does need to be overhauled"

I disagree. Education has been underfunded for decades. We who work in education are held responsible for problems created by factors we have no control over. We are also never given the correct amount of resources to do our jobs. For example, my district has stopped buying classroom supplies. That budget has been cut. So every pencil, every crayon, every roll of scotch tape and pack of staples (and the stapler) teachers now have to purchase out of their own pockets.

So we are not given the basic supplies needed to do our jobs yet we are held accountable when we don't do our jobs well.

I am assuming you can see the irony in that.

One reason the budget is cut is the expense of testing. And now we have to do even more. States are not being given stimulus money until they spend money (money they don't have) on testing to produce more data to prove they are worthy of stimulus money. I went to DC and lobbied for the Stimulus Bill and we were never told we would have to wait for the money.

More irony.

As for South Korea, sure their kids perform better on standardized tests. They work them for many hours a day for many years and prep them for the tests. As a result of this constant pressure and unreasonably high expectations, the suicide rate among children in South Korea is very high. I love children; I have spent 30 years working with them. I want them to have a childhood, not be robotic information machines. Instead of praising South Korea for their high test scores, Obama should be criticizing them for the way they treat their children.

I have a co-worker who grew up in South Korea and lives here now. She loves our schools because our kids are happy. She didn't have a happy childhood because of the intense pressure to perform in school.

Bottom line - we are not South Korea. We are also not Japan or Germany or any of the other countries that supposedly do a better job educating their children. We are America. Sure we can improve our schools. We should probably extend the school year for starters. But our schools are doing a remarkable job when you consider the lack of funds and the lack of regard for what is truly best for our children.

[FrenchieCat]

61. I don't hold teachers responsible for the failure of Education.

But I don't see public Education as such a great success that it shouldn't be looked at with reform in mind.

As for funding, please note without the stimulus......seems like not much of an increase,




HOWEVER, when the stimulus is added into the mix....

[proud2BlibKansan]

63. But we aren't getting the money until we produce more data

That means more tests.

Bottom line - I still have to buy my own stapler. And this year I need a new pencil sharpener. They aren't cheap. :)

[janx]

67. The only reference to South Korea is one of longer

school days, according to the Huffington Post link:

Children in South Korea spend a month longer in school every year than do kids in the U.S., where the antiquated school calendar comes from the days when many people farmed and kids were needed in the fields.

"I know longer school days and school years are not wildly popular ideas, not with Malia and Sasha," Obama said as the crowd laughed. "But the challenges of a new century demand more time in the classroom."

"If they can do that in South Korea, we can do it right here in the United States of America," Obama said.


???

[dionysus]

87. no kidding, the OP is pure dishonest flamebait.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

71. That hardly means he wants to replicate every aspect of the South Korean system.

[dionysus]

85. obama plans to destroy our schools? maybe you need to lay the crack pipe down.

:eyes:

[BlooInBloo]

57. Education majors want American kids to be as dumb as they are...

I would like to be a headline writer. I think I'd be good at it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

60. I'm sure The Onion would gladly hire you

[davidpdx]

65. I can give a better perspective since I live here in Korea

Students are pressured from about the 7th grade (middle school) to study hard and do well on tests. I taught at an elementary school (which is grade 1-6) and based on what I saw there was not a whole lot of pressure up to that point. Families that can afford it, send their kids to hagwon (private institute) to study one of many subjects that could include Math, Science, English or Art. The hagwons are expensive and can range from 200,000 won (about $250 1=$1250) a month. In the public schools, once a student hits middle school that is generally where the pressure begins. They study essentially to take tests. It is competitive to get into a good high school, therefore the student must excel on the tests to attain that. The university system requires an entrance test as well that is even more competitive. Even the public universities only allow a set number of students entering per year (the one that I currently work at is 1800).

I have a niece who is in the Korean public school system and she is in middle school. It seems like most of her time is dedicated to studying or going to hagwon. Even on her birthday, she didn't have time to get together with family because she had school and hagwon (and this was on a Saturday...Korean kids go to school two Saturdays a month). She's a smart girl and I feel bad for her because she doesn't get much time to relax and just be a kid.

The other thing is, this coupled with the fact that Korean parents are so protective of their children, they don't have much independence until they go to college. Teaching Freshman I see how much of a difficult time they have adapting to having control over their own lives and not being under the thumb of their parents or the school system. It also makes me appreciate how much freedom I had as a kid growing up compared to them.

[Juche]

69. Not everyone needs that kind of cramming

For one thing, there are other aspects of a person's personality that also need developing other than the ability to memorize academics that tend to get lost in cram sessions. Social skills, critical thinking skills, life skills, etc. These are all important too and probably aren't being addressed well in cram schools.

On another note, I think american kids who engage in daily exercise earn world class scores on standardized tests, that is what I remember the author of the book 'sparks' saying.

[LWolf]

70. Typical.

Responses, I mean.

It was courageous of you, Proud, to put this here.

Here's a kick, fwiw.

You already know where I stand on high stakes testing.

[donco6]

78. No kidding.

The responses are entirely predictable.

[PVnRT]

81. Hatred of teachers is perfectly acceptable at DU now

Along with other things even worse.

[LWolf]

83. I've seen that.

I have little respect for those whose positions swing from one pole to another depending upon who is in power.

[B2G]

72. My kids spend 7 hours a day in school

and then 4 hours a night doing homework. 11 hours a day. That's plenty. They're kids.

And keep your mitts off their weekends and summers.

[4lbs]

73. I wouldn't mind if our schools were simply like they were 30 years ago.

I'm talking in terms of education system quality.

[Odin2005]

74. Our Educational system is broken beyond redemption.

For one thing, learning is not all about remembering facts, it's also about having free time to wonder and imagine. South Korea's brutal education system says more about the anti-individualst, conformist nature of East Asian society than anything else.

I have very little respect for out modern "factory-like" model of education, which I consider soul-crushing, and designed to instill conformity and obedience. It left me with PTSD.

[TheKentuckian]

79. At some point outcome is meaningful

I'm no fan of the over-testing and resulting teaching to the tests but we have far too many that cannot read or lack any command of basic knowledge that I'd assume one would almost pick up by osmosis if much education was happening.

Money is a big part of the puzzle but never believing in magic bullets, I tend to believe that we need to at least reevaluate the wheel, if not reinvent it. One thing I know is that schools have been transformed into daycares and/or juvenile detention centers. I know quite a few teachers and depressingly they spend an inordinate percentage of time babysitting and disciplining rather than educating and developing young minds. Some have even left the field over that issue.

Perhaps, much of the drop off is simply the current structure of society with TV and child care workers raising children rather than parents. Kids have much less support and discipline. I believe that one parent (and no I don't care which one) needs to be at home until at least kids start school.

I also believe that we should be doing 1 (or K, if you please, I did okay without it) through 16 for primary education and bring back art, theater, music, etc back as a focus not only to produce better rounded people but to allow the kids to change gears and do things that give them pleasure and leisure during the course of the school day.
We are producing too many that cannot apply knowledge and ways of thinking across disciplines, cannot connect to broader concepts, and lack creativity. This is carrying over throughout the education process and even the most highly educated only really understand and have no more than passing interest aside from their specific fields. I think we are dumbing down all the way up by over focusing on specializations and running away from general education because of religious like faith in making the mighty dollar rather than understanding.

The over-testing plays into this teaching facts rather than how to think (which is much more generally applicable) but from many it comes from the perspective of desperation. Teachers aren't rushing to come up with any matrix or criteria, people get the impression they are avoiding accountability. Educators need to get creative in designing measuring sticks. They do not have to be catch all, they can be custom designed for their subjects but kids not knowing how to read or who are unable to find the USA on a map are unacceptable.