BREAKING NEWS: The Secret White World is not really Secret

[FrenchieCat]

In the secret White World. no one has to say anything, but what is done in this world is not really a secret.

Some may already know that racism is an institutionalized artform mastered long ago.
That means, much of it has been set up into the structure of our society, the zoning of neighborhoods, and the actions of business. In fact, the last thing that are needed are words, because it is actions taken that have done the trick. See my link on the practice of "RedLining", and know that this secret world has never really been all that secret, nor invisible except to those who choose not to see or acknowledge it.

Why it is that Banks and supermarkets are a rarity in many minority communities, but liquor/grocery stores, bars, and check cashing establishments are found on every other block.....accompanied by billboards selling liquor and cigarettes lining those very same streets are abundant?

The facts are, in minority neighborhoods, life is often lived differently than in other neighborhoods. The lack of supermarkets for those without a car leads them to the small Grocery/liquor stores where the choice of food is different, and by extension can and does affect the long term health of many minorities. Raising children in an environment where liquor stores, many with a regular set of alcoholics on its stoop, is the place where same kids go to buy their candy. The fact that home ownership dreams for many in these communities went from being nealy impossible to predatory in practice. The fact that check cashing establisment supposedly there to conveniently replace banks that don't feel the need to be represented in such neighborhoods, charge the kind of surcharge on their services that should be considered illegal, because they are immoral.

I believe that Pres. Obama is most likely better aware of the not so secret world, because he lived in it as a community organizer.
I also believe that the Obama administration will do what it can to reduce the phenomenon of institutionalized racism,
and I know that in the long term, that is the best answer that minorities everywhere will appreciate from this Presidency.
It isn't words that affect the underclass, and racial minority groups the most, it is the unspoken actions
that have gone on for years in this country.



Institutional racism
"the collective failure of an organization to provide an appropriate and professional service to people because of their colour, culture or ethnic origin"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_racism

Institutional Racism By Shirley Jean Better
http://books.google.com/books?id=Qt-DDXx07hwC&pg=PA53&lpg=PA53&dq=minority+communities,+check+cashing,+liquor+store,&source=bl&ots=hH4fmyjgGS&sig=XFmE6VwG_3iRKQdqflPsay0AgGw&hl=en&ei=86BsSrHGDobgsQOD0sGWBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1

Redlining
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining

How Planning and Zoning Contribute to Inequitable Development, Neighborhood Health, and Environmental Injustice
http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10.1089/env.2008.0506

Associations of Neighborhood Characteristics With the Location and Type of Food Stores
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1470485

Bank Consolidations and Minority Neighborhoods
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WMG-45GMXR7-4&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=6f1d2cb17eaeaffd8f35dd88309a2ea5


Off-Premises Liquor Stores Targeted to Poor Urban Blacks
http://www.jhsph.edu/publichealthnews/press_releases/PR_2000/alcohol_off_premises.html


Alcohol and cigarette advertising on billboards
http://her.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/6/4/487


So for those who had no clue, welcome to the secret White World.

[proud2BlibKansan]

1. Enthusiastically recommended

:thumbsup:

[CatWoman]

2. Now, if you'd please explain the overabundance of nail salons

:)

[FrenchieCat]

3. I think Nail Salons are everywhere........

As they have no red line, just red nail polish! ;)

[Raineyb]

4. K&R

Too bad I can only rec it once.

[MADem]

5. Eddie Murphy did a rather humorous take on "Undercover in White America" that is a classic

http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/white-like-me/278716/

It's worth watching if you have never seen it.

[Merlot]

7. Ohhhh, Eddie Murphy was SO funny once upon a time...

I've seen that before, but it still made me laugh! thanks for posting.

[grantcart]

19. It was a take off on the great classic "Black Like Me"

[Spazito]

29. The book "Black Like Me" was on my required reading list in high school...

it had a very powerful impact on me and I have recommended the book and the movie to many, many people when the subject of racism comes up.

[ananda]

58. Everyone should either read Black Like Me..

.. or the great bio of John Howard Griffin,
Man in the Mirror.

So enlightening.

[Enthusiast]

45. Thanks

It's been ages since I've seen that. Funny.

[proud2BlibKansan]

47. That's such a classic!

Thanks for sharing it.

[masuki bance]

6. What's your theory as to why supermarkets aren't in these neighborhoods? nt

[uponit7771]

8. Cost of produce

[Political Tiger]

11. I would suggest looking up the word "segregation." n/t

[FrenchieCat]

12. Off the top of my head, I'd say it has to do with money and profitability.....

and the fact that large Grocery chains do not "have to" locate in poor neighborhoods if they don't want to. They may cite the crime statistics, that folks in these neighborhoods spend less, or that there is a certain image that some retailers would prefer having, and it doesn't include being located in areas of town that are considered undesirable.

There are a lot of theories out there, but the fact remains, Supermarket are located 4 to 1 greater in areas that aren't considered urban minority communities.


LIKE SOME AFRICAN AMERICANS, ZELDA OWENS turned to buses, subways, taxis, or car pooling to get to a quality supermarket in New York City.. The Associateds or C-Town Supermarkets in this area don't offer variety. So, I often shopped at D'Agostino's in downtown Manhattan to get the products I wanted," admits the 32-year-old Harlem native. According to Owens, the lack of quality grocery stores introduces a much bigger issue: Harlem residents lack healthy food choices as well other basic services. "It seems like corporations feel that it's not glamorous or sexy to have a business in a predominantly black neighborhood..."
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Supermarket+blackout.-a055100689

Neighborhood differences in Retail Food Stores: Income vs. Race and age of Population
http://www.jstor.org/pss/143417

Grocery stores in poor neighborhoods
http://usfoodpolicy.blogspot.com/2007/11/grocery-stores-in-poor-neighborhoods.html


In poor health: Supermarket redlining and urban nutrition
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/klu/gejo/2001/00000053/00000002/00402875?crawler=true

WHY THERE WILL BE NO CHAIN SUPERMARKETS IN POOR INNER-CITY NEIGHBORHOODS
http://www.calstatela.edu/faculty/tlarson/LarsonSupermarkets.pdf

Enough to Make You Sick?
Something is Killing America's Urban Poor
http://www.mindfully.org/Health/2003/Urban-Poor-Sick12oct03.htm

[tomm2thumbs]

20. I agree with the money issue as a big part of it

And there is a reticence to going into areas where they consider less than 'flagship' quality so they look the other way instead of making an investment in the community as a whole and building their brand along with it. It is sad that profits are such a key to the equation, but the corrupt world we live in runs on money. (I bet you ten to one they would jump in a heartbeat if there were gobs of money in it for them.) The vicious cycle of not having the money to maintain an area of the city, continued lowering hope and attitudes there - it becomes a slope that even the most strong-willed would have trouble with and residents often don't have even the most rudimentary of resources to break the chain. This would apply to most impoverished areas.

Given what a basic commodity food is (I'd argue more than natural gas, electricity etc) perhaps there should be an effort to put some responsibility on store chains from not only locating in areas they happen to find huge profits in. I'd argue that if an electric company decided it was more profitable to only service areas where people used power wastefully and always paid the higher rates, etc. that they'd be raked over the coals if they were to pull back from providing service to less profitable areas of the city. Why is it different for food/grocery companies who provide basic survival commodities?

Just putting it out there.

I found this encouraging.
http://www.chicagodefender.com/article-1981-new-black-owned-grocery-store-offers-a-fresh-market.html

There is a huge market and brand loyalty would be a big win for those that got in early and steadily.

[handmade34]

40. this is where unregulated Capitalism has taken us

[bluescribbler]

52. There can be another way.

When I was younger, we had a supermarket in my, mostly white, blue collar, semi-urban city. Every Saturday, the owner of the supermarket would charter a few busses, which he then sent into the ghettos. Residents there could ride the bus free to his supermarket, buy whatever they needed, and then ride the bus free back to their communities.

The supermarket owner wasn't just being charitable. It made good business sense to him. He was able to clear out a lot of his perishables, (meat, dairy and produce), before he had to close the store for the weekend. (Supermarkets and grocery stores were not allowed to open on Sunday in those days.) The groceries he sold to those inner city residents more than paid for the bus charters. And many of my neighbors felt good about shopping at that supermarket because of what he was doing.

Of course, that man is no longer in business. He retired years ago, and sold his store to a chain.

One would think that a smart and enlightened businessman would see the value in that practice. One would think.

[treestar]

60. That was always my thought on those 60s era white only lunch counters

I'd have seen a business opportunity.

Racists shoot themselves in the foot, losing business just to obey their so-called ideology.

[CTyankee]

53. New Haven has a Shaw's supermarket in a predominantly minority neighborhood!

It's been here for several years now. The whole idea was to serve the people of the area and also to HIRE the people in the area (this was around the time of Clinton's welfare reform). Recognizing the fact that so many minority residents did not have adequate public transportation and no cars to get them to work, the City worked with Shaw's to open a big supermarket on a major thoroughfare cutting right through one of the most heavily minority neighborhoods in the city. I used to stop there to pick up last minute items because it was on my way home from work each day.

There is also a vegetarian/natural foods supermarket on the same thoroughfare, so residents in that same neighborhood have an alternate choice.

It CAN be done, folks...New Haven in living proof of that.

[Jennicut]

59. Yes, and it happened in CT of all places.

We both know CT is the home of the ultra wealthy as well as many poor cities. My husband works in Waterbury all the time for Yankee Gas...there are many corner stores there although they actually have a mall and Super Stop and Shop as well. There is a mix.

[FrenchieCat]

17. Comment?

you asked a question, and got some answers.
Do you have an opinion yourself, or were you just wondering?

[JDPriestly]

25. Because they aren't in the absence of political pressure.

I also live in a lower income area of L.A. We have completely different stores than those in the wealthier areas. Actually, the fruit and vegetables offered to us are cheaper than those in wealthier areas, but not as fresh. The quality is not as good. It's really odd. We used to have a lot of little grocery stores on corners that had almost no selection and virtually no fresh fruits and vegetables. Our councilman made a deal and got a grocery store to move in but it is a cheaper store than in other areas, not as nice, not as clean, not as large and with lots of ethnic foods. Everything in our area is like that. It's really strange. Even the selection of tea is very limited in our neighborhood.

Everything that Frenchie says is true about race in this country.

I should add that our neighborhood is in the process of being gentrified. It is very strange to watch. We bought before -- now we are seeing the after. But we still don't have middle class shopping opportunities, not really. Not that I could afford to shop in the middle class stores if they were located in my neighborhood. There are many neighborhoods with fewer stores than ours. At least we have lots of stores. You just can't buy certain things here that you can buy in areas that are more "white" and upscale.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

80. my opinion on why supermarkets aren't in these neighborhoods

is that those supermarkets are usually owned by businesspeople (i.e. rich, white, privileged) who live their lives far from poor/minority/black realities. They fear financial losses -- theft, damage, violence etc.

Small convenience stores-- well, I don't know why they flourish--franchises are owned at the top by the same fearful whites who worry for their profits but don't need to concern themselves with the difficulties of survival. But I guess just off the tip of my head, they have lower overhead than grocery stores since they carry items that mostly don't expire--canned goods, highly processed snacks, etc. So they need less expensive equipment for refrigeration.....

One thing about the convenience stores-- their prices are sky high. So the argument that high prices keep grocery stores out of poor neighborhoods doesn't seem correct to me.

[Political Tiger]

9. Truth! K&R!

:kick:

[mzteris]

10. another good resource for info:

killing rage: Ending Racism by bell hooks



Uprooting Racism: How White People Can Work for Racial Justice Paul Kivel
From an examination of whiteness to a dissection of everyday racism, from an exploration of what being an ally means to an investigation of institutionalized racism, Uprooting Racism is a must-read for any white person who wants to know what they can — and should — do to counter racism.

[FrenchieCat]

13. Thanks!

Here it is!

http://www.amazon.com/killing-rage-Ending-bell-hooks/dp/0805050272

[tomreedtoon]

14. To whoever drew the Crayon Map...

...you might do better to have the map scanned into a computer and use THAT to color the areas. Those "red" areas are spreading and you'll need to keep up.

Also, you need fewer categories. You could get by with "best," "declining," "ghetto" and "deadlands."

[FrenchieCat]

15. It is an old map, that is true......

and I think that the tragic part is how the lines were used to go from always saying "NO" to predatory lending in its stead. That's why minorities were being blamed for the financial meltdown,
and the subprime loan situation....somehow not only were they the victims, but they were said to be the villains. Guess that some folks just can't ever win.

[Leo The Cleo]

16. Good Thread

But this won't deter people from saying that blacks are "belly achers" and "whiners." Legitimacy means very little to those who'd like to wish you off.

[handmade34]

41. "don't confuse me with the facts..."

[Uzybone]

18. KnR

plenty of facts as always.

[Cirque du So-What]

21. Room for one more?

Regulation as Civic Empowerment

The policing of the financial system can't just be left to bureaucrats. Properly designed, regulation can be a community-organizing strategy.

Edmund Mierzwinski | June 29, 2009

In February 1975, a coalition of more than three dozen consumer groups paid a call on the newly installed chair of the Senate Banking Committee, Sen. William Proxmire of Wisconsin. Proxmire, a progressive who had previously headed the subcommittee on consumer protection, had already authored several landmark laws, including the Truth in Lending Act. The coalition wanted Proxmire to sponsor a deceptively simple law, which came to be known as the Home Mortgage Disclosure Act (HMDA). The act requires banks and savings institutions to disclose, by zip code, the number and amount of loans they make in their primary service areas.
The activists, who were led by a Chicago homemaker turned activist, Gale Cincotta, and Monsignor Geno Baroni of the National Center for Urban Ethnic Affairs, wanted the information so that they could shame or pressure local banks to stop redlining urban neighborhoods. Literally scores of neighborhood groups in dozens of cities were already several years into an anti-redlining campaign, but information was hard to come by. The only way to determine lending patterns was to look up mortgage records, one at a time, in local recorder-of-deeds offices, and then aggregate the information by bank. Mandatory disclosure under HMDA would provide the data they needed.

Proxmire was impressed with the groups' ingenuity and the evidence that they had already assembled of pervasive redlining. He held four days of hearings and then steered the bill through the committee, onto the Senate floor, and into law, almost exactly as the groups had designed it. Two years later, armed with even more persuasive data, the groups were back to ask for legislation requiring banks to take affirmative steps to make credit available to formerly redlined neighborhoods. Once again, they were well organized and persuasive, and once again Proxmire delivered, this time with the Community Reinvestment Act (CRA).

What is notable about these two laws is that they use regulation as an organizing tool. The laws began as a strategy conceived by community organizers and then became the basis for even more effective organizing. Armed with HMDA and CRA, groups could confront lenders and demand that they change policies. They could provide dossiers to regulators and then become their partners in policing banks. After more than three decades, while some lenders have continued to resist, others have become allies. There is now a whole generation of loan officers who pride themselves as believing in community reinvestment.

more...

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=regulation_as_civic_empowerment

[Fire1]

22. Frenchie, 'WE' already know. It's the white world that doesn't

see it.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JuniperLea]

81. Now, had I said something about...

"The Black World" there would be hell to pay.

Not all white people are racists you know.

Not all white people live in a "white world" either.

[Number23]

23. Well done! Kicked and rec'd. What's terrifying is that you got this OP all chock full of info

and you didn't even touch on the issues of health and education disparities; racial profiling in criminal cases; racial disparities in prison sentencing, often even FOR THE SAME CRIMES etc. etc. etc. between the minority world and the white one.

This OP is this meaty and full of good info, and you haven't even scratched the surface. Anyone attempting to tackle all of that would be the creator of DU's first encyclopedic series of novels.

[FrenchieCat]

24. Prisons for Profit is also another of the newer tools in the institutional racism kit!

in the not so secret White World. :(

[Enthusiast]

46. And getting rid of

the for profit prison system will be as hard as getting rid of the for profit healthcare system. Entrenched interests and their media watchdogs.

[pink-o]

67. Prisons are also ideal for marginalizing anyone who refuses to tow the line

those rebellious types who fight the system. A few years in lockup turns them into real criminals, even if they just started out as rabble rousers. Then society can ignore or pigeonhole those who might have brought about change to the status quo.

And those people usually are minorites, angry at the injustice they see around them.

[BumRushDaShow]

26. And then a color-coded map of my city (Philadelphia) appears

Ain't that the truth?!! :rofl:

K&R! :kick:

[onehandle]

65. I've spent a lot of time in Philadelphia looking at real estate.

I have to say that it's pretty accurate even today. Some of the red areas can be pretty hazardous even to drive through.

And that map is from 1936. I would bet that it was 90% red in the 1970s.

[BumRushDaShow]

75. If that was from 1936

then the way the top 1/2 of the city is cut-off is pretty accurate... It was essentially sparsely populated, undeveloped, or near rural any further north, northwest, or northeast.

In the '70s, there was a flight out of the city or up to the northeast section, which was actively being developed with housing and stores. You can see the result below in an interesting map based on the 2000 census. Real telling! ;)

[HopeOverFear]

27. kick and rec'd with a fist in the air

[Odin2005]

28. K&R

[Spazito]

30. Excellent OP!

Recommended.

[retread]

31. Recommend!! Best post in a long time. There you go again. Throwing facts into the conversation.

Can't we all just agree to base our arguments on myths and anecdotes?

[andym]

32. K and R. Don't forget that in many minority neighborhoods property poorly appreciates.

The effect is actually strongly correlated with socioeconomic status. But it affects minority neighborhoods disproportionally because of the numbers of socioeconomic disadvantaged living in many minority communities.

For example,
see http://muse.jhu.edu/login?uri=/journals/social_forces/v082/82.4flippen.pdf

The net result is that wealth accrued in middle-class neighborhoods by their properties over time is denied to those living in disadvantaged neighborhoods. This impedes upward socioeconomic mobility.

[FrenchieCat]

33. And of course, that brings to the fore Property tax revenue and school funding....

Kinda of goes round and round, doesn't it..... making it hard to find a way out.

[FrenchieCat]

34. Makes it quite difficult for folks to find the boots so they can use the straps

and pull themselves up.

[Lucky Luciano]

35. Funny - I posted something about this totally independent of your post.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6157699

Just noticed your post!

[Mira]

36. How many times can I recommend this? I know, ONE HUGE time. N/t

[BlooInBloo]

37. It all adds up.

[MrScorpio]

38. Excellent post

Simply excellent

[dorkulon]

39. Isn't this more about poverty than race?

Not to dismiss the idea of institutionalized racism (and certainly redlining was racism), but aren't there economic realities that make many minority communities less profitable locations for banks and supermarkets, and more profitable for liquor stores/check-cashing joints/etc.? Likewise with mortgages--the reason that sub-prime mortgages have had a racially disparate impact is that poverty (and consequently, poor credit) is racially disparate in this country.

I'm not arguing that race isn't an issue in this country, but that a lot of these examples are reflections of poverty at least as much as they are causes.

[FrenchieCat]

42. I think you have a point, but only to a point....

What you can do though is make your case and post links that evidence what it is that you are surmizing in reference to poverty striken areas that aren't divided by race.

[defendandprotect]

71. But poverty is due to exploitation, discrimination . . .

OTOH, we have historical evidence that when Native Americans thrived in their own
communities thru raising animals, for instance, that our government went in and killed
all the animals.

Any number of thriving African-American communities have been burned out -- and residents
chased out of the area.

Those are historical cases --

Again -- racism means that people of color will be prevented by the ruling elites
from thriving -- and when they succeed despite all of the pressures, their communities
will be attacked and destroyed.

We really have to wake up to the viciousness of the people we are discussing.

It has always been violence which enables those with a strong urge to control to succeed.
Violence, cheating - whatever it takes. Rape, burning people out of their homes.

[Ken Burch]

43. Everyone who goes on and on about how "the poor are just lazy and immoral"

needs to read this thread.

[indimuse]

48. Great post!

K&R!

[NeoGreen]

49. K&R and Book Marked n/t

[HamdenRice]

50. Excellent post! Thanks krnt

[McCamy Taylor]

51. It isn't a secret. Just watch White store clerks follow around Black customers

as if they are afraid they will steal something the minute they are not under heavy scrutiny. It's shameful.

K&R

[fascisthunter]

56. yes... I walk in, no prob, black friend walks in, he gets watched.

[NJCher]

54. topics for research class

This will be a fascinating topic for my students in research and speech classes this fall. Thank you especially for the graphics and links.


Cher

[fascisthunter]

55. so true...

growing up in Boston you see this in mainly poor neighborhoods such as the one I grew up in, but in neighborhoods that consist of blacks or Latinos, is is so much more prevalent.

[Irishonly]

57. K&R

Your journal should be required reading for Congress. I have watched the poor and minorities get shafted for many years. Some of what happens to them just chills your heart to its core. When my husband first needed a passport I called around to get prices for his photo. I figured the lower income city in my area would be cheaper but was I ever wrong. It cost twice as much as it did in Claremont.

Produce doesn't last as long when you buy it from a certain chain store in Pomona. Half of the time it looks like if you don't use it that day, you will lose it. I can go to different stores or to farmer's markets but thousands of residents don't have that option. It should be criminal. BTW, there are fast food places on every corner. Many have lowered the prices so the poor eat there because it is cheaper. If you drive down Holt, the only businesses doing a lot of business are the fast food traps.

[noiretextatique]

76. pitzer college graduate here

:hi: your post made me a little nostalgic. i graduated from there 30 years ago, but never forget the sharp contrast between claremont and pomona.

[Gator_Matt]

61. A conspiracy of untold proportion, or simple economics?

The OP's argument seems to involve a conspiracy of untold proportions designed to discriminate against a large portion of the population. Why would so many companies willfully lose money to accomplish this conspiracy? It doesn't make sense. Instead, look at pure economics. Poor areas will have the types of stores you list. If a particular demographic tends to have lower income, they will tend to live in poorer neighborhoods. If I've learned anything in life, it's that money drives virtually everything and that correlation is not causation.

[HughMoran]

64. You may not like it, but I grew up in it

And no, companies do not like the added security and actually charge poor people MORE in poor areas (I've seen the pricing matrix of major stores). There are other factors that keep them from the poor areas - it's not always about profit. You really have no idea what you're talking about.

[noiretextatique]

66. Lynched by Corporate America

Lynched by Corporate America tells a true story that calls attention to the silent institutionalized racism our culture prefers not to acknowledge. It may well prove to be an important step toward holding corporate America accountable and toward finding a solution that can lead to a more just, equitable society.

With co-author Robert Schwab, Malone delivers an eye-opening narrative of corporate discrimination and legal injustice. In their riveting firsthand account, you will learn:

** How a Fortune 500 giant systematically canceled contracts with African-American suppliers
** How the National Black Chamber of Commerce fought back with lawsuits and public pressure
** How Herman Malone, the President and CEO of RMES Communications and recipient of the Martin Luther King, Jr. Social Responsibility Award, staked everything he had achieved as a business and community leader in a courageous stand against institutional racism
** How Malone refused to be beaten by the system and flourished even in the face of adversity

This powerful book--which provides a unique true account of the status of African Americans in courts and boardrooms--calls attention to the failure of the nation's justice system to engage and correct the "economic lynching" African Americans have suffered at the hands of corporate empires. It holds the system accountable and demands positive changes that will make economic parity a reality.

There are always more examples that defer logic, reason, and economics.

[defendandprotect]

73. Conspiracy and it is of course now global fascism . . .

Look at the history books -- the elite succeed based on violence --
and when the Native American or the African-American or women have succeeded
despite the efforts to keep them from doing so ....

then the community will be destroyed.

The attacks on Native American farming - killing of animals --
and a number of notorious cases of attacks on successful African-American
communities where on a false charge of some kind the community is burned out.

What have we been doing worldwide in invading other nations -- from Hawaii to the
Philippines to Iraq. Sometimes a bit more peacefully using "Christian" religion
as a gateway -- othertimes with bombs.

[Butch350]

62. And why do you think that is?

Your saying The Secret White World doesn't want to make profit in the minority community?

[HughMoran]

63. K&R - I grew up in such a neighborhood and can vouch for everything you're saying here

...and it isn't going to change any time soon - thus is the shortfall of capitalism with minimal governmental involvement. I know Clinton tried the idea of creating zones where businesses would get certain breaks for moving into poor/minority neighborhoods (I can't remember the name of the initiative off the top of my head.) Perhaps Obama can "seed" these areas with a similar initiative - I wonder if anything like this was included in the stimulus, and if not, why not? You bring up a good point that is more like what Edwards was saying with his "two Americas" rhetoric. Let's hope Obama gets back to his roots - at least in his second term where he has nothing to lose.

[earcandle]

68. I posted this report on my site and this letter as an afterthought.

I am concerned and ask that people of color please do not feed into racism by misinterpreting the post. I am white. I am also a victim of this kind of white elitistism. We all are. I am sure most Americans, no matter what color, faith or sex or age are shocked by the rampant removal of the principles of our constitution in our media, in our educational systems, in our businesses, and in our relationships. These are are a result of our being too trusting of our leadership and too involved in our own survival. This is not an accusation. This is a wake up call. We need to stick together and allow our principles that made us great to work. We can only do this if we educate ourselves and remove the leadership that has taken us all down the wrong path. Do not get confused. Get yourself informed and only work with your integrity intact. That means also to take a stand for your dignity and self esteem.


Please take advantage of this site (my noodlebrain.com site) and learn how to get yourselves prepared for "1984" media take over talk and do the research on things that concern you. Don't feel hopeless or undermined. Just know that the ability to deal with ambiguity (when things are true and false at the same time, or appear to be) is a sign of mental health. Loosen up to include what is so, so that we can say so what and move out of a bad situation.


We all love Obama, and we are seeing him agree with things that are still Bush operations. Tolerate those things in hopes that he can stay alive long enough to allow our constitutional processes to make things right. But they will only righten themselves with OUR push to do so. So you have to NOT be against Obama, and you have to be AGAINST Obama. You have to do both at the same time with certainty, with intention and with the privilege of being a very important voter in this country.


Once we are working together things will go back to stasis. And we will have evolved out of the pig sty we have allowed the world to live in, coming at us now at the speed of light. Hold on, and have faith, not hope. Be intentional in your ability to operate with ethics, logic, and passion with your fellow men and women and even this will come to pass.

http://www.earcandleproductions.com/Democracy.mp3

[defendandprotect]

69. k i c k

[defendandprotect]

70. I'm not sure what day it was, but there came a day when we invented the dollar . . .

an artificial entity --

Any chance we go do a "system restore" on that?

[Uncle Joe]

72. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, FrenchieCat.

[defendandprotect]

74. I think what we have to really understand is that the myths of "inferiority" . . .

put in place by elites are simply about exploitation --

and whether we are talking about the discrimination against women, or Native Americans,
African-Americans, or homosexuals, it is all the same thing -- exploitation for the profit
of the few.

This is also true of the elite war on nature for profit --
which continues to go on and on in a quite suicidal way.

[Celtic Merlin]

77. Well, there's honestly no "Great Conspiracy".

From the OP:
"Why it is that Banks and supermarkets are a rarity in many minority communities, but liquor/grocery stores, bars, and check cashing establishments are found on every other block.....accompanied by billboards selling liquor and cigarettes lining those very same streets are abundant?"

Many years ago, during my college years, one of the jobs I took was as an unarmed security guard. My assignment: guard a chain-operated grocery store in a "less desirable" neighborhood on the 11PM to 7AM shift. This was no shoe-string budget, mom-and-pop operation. It was a very large, full-service, genuine grocery store. One morning when the manager arrived to open the store, I asked him why they needed a guard in such a mundane place as a grocery store. He told me that break-ins had been a regular problem for the store - so much so that hiring a security firm to guard the place was easily cost-effective. I was awestruck. He also told me that pilferage or "inventory shrinkage" was a problem during business hours, and that they had at least one store employee each and every day dedicated to wandering the aisles looking for thievery in progress. Before the summer was over, my assignment there ended because the store simply closed for good. Despite the very low cost of real estate in that neighborhood and the subsidies they received from various agencies to locate in that neighborhood, the place couldn't turn a profit.

This closure wasn't from lack of business. The people in that neighborhood certainly needed food to live and certainly did business there. Most of the neighborhood was happy that the store had agreed to locate there, as there was no other grocery store serving this rather large community. There were, however, some folks who saw the place as an opportunity to get something for nothing. I know that the prices there weren't any higher than they were at the same chain location in my own neighborhood, as I had plenty of time to wander the empty aisles every night and I saw what their prices were. Besides, I'm certain that had they been charging significantly more for the groceries in that store, there'd have been an uproar over it.

I'm not making any of this up, folks. These are plain facts. If you owned a grocery store chain, wouldn't YOU want to locate one of your stores in a place where you had NO COMPETITION for that neighborhood's business? Wouldn't you WANT to take advantage of the very low cost of real estate in that area to open your business there? Wouldn't you be HAPPY to serve an otherwise under-served community that would very much appreciate your decision to operate a much-needed business in their area? So would I. So would ANY smart business owner. EVERYBODY EATS!!! It's guaranteed that people in that neighborhood will do business with your grocery store. GUARAN-EFFING-TEED! So why aren't there any grocery stores in these neighborhoods? And don't give me that "racism" crap. Business owners see one and only one color, and that color is GREEN. If there's money to be made, they'll do business wherever they can - and this includes the "less desirable" neighborhoods. There are viable businesses in these neighborhoods. If they weren't making money, they'd lock up and go away. So what's the problem here? Do you know? I know what the solution is.

I believe that we can all agree that banks are willing to make a buck anyplace they can. Again, these businesspeople seek out any and all opportunities they can find to make a buck. Banking execs are among the worst business whores there are. If they can't identify an opportunity to be the one and only place for a neighborhood to do their banking AND make a buck in the process, there likely isn't a buck to be made. And what's going to hold them back? Too much competition? Nope. Cost of real estate too high to justify a branch there? Nope. Sufficient labor pool unavailable to staff the location? Hardly. Lack of available space? Don't make me laugh. So what's the problem here? Are the banking execs all a bunch of naked racists, unwilling to turn a profit in a particular place because of the color of the residents' skin? Sorry, wrong number. The check-cashing places (criminal, though they are) make enough money to stay afloat. You don't pay a bank a high percentage of your check amount to cash it with them - so long as you have an account there. So they should do one HELLUVA business there. Why can't a regular bank stay afloat in these neighborhoods? I believe I know why. Do you? And "armed robbery" ain't it. I know what the solution is.

Now, in my state of Pennsylvania, liquor is sold only by the state and all they sell in their stores is liquor and wine. You can't get liquor and wine in a grocery store, convenience store, or anyplace else. So this whole scenario of "children buying their candy at a liquor store" has never been seen in Pennsylvania. What the UCK is a liquor store ANYWHERE doing handling candy? Who here has ever seen kids hanging out at the liquor store looking to score some Milk Duds? I just don't get that one. If your state allows a business to sell hard liquor at the same cash register that candy is sold through, you have some talkin' to do with your state legislators - seriously!

Bars are EVERYWHERE. Good neighborhoods and bad. Because you simply charge more for beer and liquor in the nice places. Purveyors of alcohol know no color barriers. Like all other businesspeople, they see only green. Go figure, huh?

And yes, the billboards in the poorer neighborhoods SUCK. That's about all you see - cigarette ads, malt liquor ads, booze ads, and fast-food joint ads. That's some major-league suck going on there. The billboard people should be investigated.

The practice of "RedLining" was discovered and made ILLEGAL years and years ago. When shown to be in practice, financial institutions face lawsuits and fines galore. Not to mention the PR hit they take. If it's happening, you have to make the feds aware of it. They have the means to punish those who do it.

Finally, there is no scary "Secret White World". When looking to make a buck, as all businesses do, the only color any business sees is green. If anything, there's a secret GREEN world going on, and it's no secret. This OP does NOTHING to expose some Great White Conspiracy - as there is no such thing. If anything, the OP is nothing more than an attempt to harm race relations alot more than to HELP race relations. It isn't about skin color, people! It isn't about black vs. white in America. It's about ONE color - GREEN.

I stated several times above that I know what the solution to these problems is. And now you will, too...
The solution needed to make these problems go away? Work. The people there need jobs. They need decent-paying jobs with benefits that will give them the disposable incomes they need to improve the condition of their neighborhoods. The one business that thrives in these neighborhoods that the OP didn't mention - temp agencies. The places that collect $15 an hour to make your labor available to the employer, but pay you only $7.35 an hour and pocket the difference for doing nothing more than giving you an address to show up for work. When the disposable income shows up in these neighborhoods, so will the banks, the grocery stores, the pizza shops, etc. The "Secret White World" is a load of bullshit. It's the un-secret GREEN world that will change these places. And you don't put Americans to work by shopping at Wal*Mart for thousands of items made by the children of China. You don't put Americans to work by making it profitable for corporations to ship the plants and jobs that they provide over to Malaysia, China, India, and elsewhere. You PENALIZE corporations that do that shit. Did you know that Levi-Strauss & Co. - the maker of Levi's jeans - closed at least SIX sewing facilities in North America that made their jeans and shipped every last American job to Asia? The EXECUTIVES are still here. They're making more money than ever at their San Francisco HQ. But the jobs that they used to provide to American workers are GONE. And the US Federal Government HELPED THEM DO IT with tax benefits. Small business loans that require location in minority neighborhoods is a start. Get people working - across America - and these problems will begin to melt away.

Celtic Merlin
Carlinist

[FrenchieCat]

78. Slavery was an economic enterprise.....

So what you said is known.

[Celtic Merlin]

79. And THAT reply = non sequitur.

Seriously non sequitur.

[JuniperLea]

83. Whew! I thought it was me...

I didn't get it either.

[JuniperLea]

82. Thank you...

Classism is the new racism, and the sooner we all realize it, the less likely we'll be divided by race ever again. But that's what "they" want, for us to be divided. Divide and conquer, ya know.

[Number23]

84. "Classism is the new racism"

Oh Dear God... here we go.

[JuniperLea]

86. For most of us poor folk who live among the poor folk of all color...

There is no racism that isn't whipped to a froth from the outside. It's yet another item in the RW arsenal to keep us divided. God forbid all the poor people of all color unite.

There will always be racism. If you thought I was saying classism was going to replace racism, you are clearly part of the problem

[Number23]

87. Now you add completely unnecessary melodrama to the foolishness that you spouted before

Contrary to what you believe, not all black people are poor. Black folks of all stripes and levels of success have experienced racism. Read some of the posts here: accomplished actors and entertainers; titans of business, hell even Colin Powell have all acknowledged that they've been racially profiled. This ain't got sh*t to do with "class". This is an issue of RACE and I'm tired of people trying to pretend otherwise.

Frenchie's OP tried to explain how one level of the systemic racism in this country has been crafted and its legacy. And as to be expected, it's gone over the heads of some here.

And you are the typical (white) Democrat who has convinced themselves that racism and bigotry are only weapons in the right wing arsenal. The Right Wing is a part of AMERICA, as is the left wing. And America has done a simply fantastic job of keeping blacks and whites separated and the poor separated from the rich.

[JuniperLea]

88. There you go again...

Reading all sorts of crap into something I did not say. And you have the gaul to tell me what I believe, to boot!

It's pure foolishness to think that what you said, "And America has done a simply fantastic job of keeping blacks and whites separated and the poor separated from the rich" is any different than what I said. If you had been paying attention for the past three decades you might get that yes, the RW isn't the only group using the tactics. But they sure as hell are using them like crazy now.

I never said all black people are poor, you made that shit up. You make a lot of shit up, then you have the nerve to shit on others with what you make up. Pathetic.

Obviously I was completely right about you: If you thought I was saying classism was going to replace racism, you are clearly part of the problem. You are absolutely part of the problem if you read all that crap into what I said. Fucking pathetic.

I still have my fingers...

[Number23]

89. You do realize that typing words interspersed with "fuck" and "shit" does not make them sentences?

Don't you??

I don't even know what the hell you're talking about. But I'm comforted by the fact that it truly sounds as though you don't either.

Now you just sound stupid instead of merely racially/socio-economically clueless. Good luck with all of that and good luck being you!

[Celtic Merlin]

85. Yes, it's all about cash now, JuniperLea.

If you've got it, you're a member of the Ruling Class. If you haven't got it, you're worthless and not worthy of consideration. The only thing that We, the People of the United States of America have left to combat this situation is our votes. And those are the ultimate power. We just have to USE them.

Celtic Merlin
Carlinist