So ...we talked about Gates at my Family Reunion this weekend

[Perky]

So I had a great opportunity to discus the mytiad of angles on the Gates controversy.This is a photo of aunts, uncles, cousins, their spouses and their kids. There are five lawyers, three college professors a Southern Baptist preacher and one former star patrol officer in the brood. A great mix of ardent Democrats.

I showed them some of the Gates threads and aske them what they thought. It was Calm, Level-Headed and thoughtful. and while there was disagreement on some significant points, there was consensus on four points

1. Gates' arrest was a stupid overreaction by the Cambridge Police
2. Gates picked a fight unnecessarily
3. That the cops were doing their job until Gates accused them of profiling,
4. That DU is full of well intenterioned white folks who's outrage is more about being deeply suspicious about authority than they are truly sympathetic to Gates.

THe biggest point of contention was whether or not Obama should have gotten involved.

[Buzz Clik]

1. It seems your fourth point (about DU) describes the consensus from your family.

Seriously, your list is exactly the stream of emotions on just about every Gates thread here at DU.

[JayMusgrove]

2. That's a great family picture!!!!!!

And it seems like your family has a good fix on these issues.

[LiberalMuslim]

5. Fantastic looking family!

God bless.

[iconocrastic]

31. Nice people. You shouldn't inflict politics and message boards on them

Family reunions are no place to rehash DU squabbles.

[Perky]

34. LOL I simply letft the laptop open. It was their choice

No relatives were injured during this test.

[Starry Messenger]

3. Wow, even the kids are Democrats.

Amazing.

[Perky]

7. We indoctrinate early

LOL

[a kennedy]

4. Great looki'n family.....

and this is the statement I love...."That DU is full of well intentioned white folk who's outrage is more about being deeply suspicious about authority than they are truly sympathetic to Gates."

[pecwae]

6. The young lady in pink

looks like a younger version of my SIL. Great photo!

[enough]

8. I haven't yet understood why this is seen as an either/or question.

Either you are concerned about racism in the treatment of Gates, OR you are concerned about the erosion of Constitutional rights? Can't we mentally multi-task?

[Perky]

9. Or you could be concerned about Gates presumptions

that the cops were going to assume the worst,

[enough]

10. Yes, AND I am concerned about that, not OR.

[Buzz Clik]

11. Meh. Gates's reaction to the cop was irrelevant because it never exceeded being noisy.

The defining moment for Officer Crowley was his choice to remain after Gates's identity was established. Crowley's presence was THE problem, and he knew it. By staying, he guaranteed that the situation would escalate.

Racially motivated? Unclear.

[Perky]

12. Why he stayed is importnat as well.

You seem to be saying that he should have walked away from Gates acting like a jerk. I agree with that. But the position seems to proceed from an acknowledgement that Gates picked a fight, when the cops were not looking for one and perhaps did not deserve what they got. SO the question then becomes when was Gates "profiled".

[Buzz Clik]

13. I have never claimed that Gates was profiled by Crowley.

Maybe by the neighbor who called it in, maybe not. Crowley may be a racist, and maybe not.

[Perky]

14. You running for mayor of DU or something....LOL

I was not suggesting that you were. But I think the assumption that the whole mess stems from racial profiling is pretty asinine.

[AlGore-08.com]

15. Just F.Y.I. the woman who called it in wasn't a neighbor, she lives several towns away

She works in the area. And she did not mention the race of the men she saw forcing the door to Gate's house. This is the latest from last night:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/07/27/gates_caller_didnt_cite_race_police_say/

GATES CALLER SAYS SHE DIDN'T CITE RACE
Woman laments media accounts

The woman whose report of a possible house break-in led to the arrest of Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. said she never mentioned race during her 911 call and is “personally devastated’’ by media accounts that suggest she placed the call because the men she observed on the porch were black, according to a lawyer acting as her spokeswoman.

(snip)

In an interview last night, Cambridge Police Commissioner Robert C. Haas said it was ac curate that Whalen did not mention race in her 911 call. He acknowledged that a police report of the incident did include a race reference. The report says Whalen observed “what appeared to be two black males with backpacks on the front porch’’ of a Ware Street home on July 16.

That reference is there, said Haas, because the police report is a summary. Its descriptions - like the race of the two men - were collected during the inquiry, not necessarily from the initial 911 call, he said.

(snip)

“People are making their own judgments about the case and assuming that she called police because they were black,’’ Murphy said yesterday in a telephone interview. “That sentiment is permeating the stories, and it ties directly to her involvement, even though the truth is she didn’t report seeing black men and she didn’t know the men’s race when she called 911.’’

In an interview at police headquarters last night, Haas said “it was very clear that she wasn’t sure’’ what the men’s race was. He also said that when the dispatcher questioned Whalen for more details, she told police she could only guess about the race of the two men. “She speculated . . . that one might be Hispanic.’’

(more... )

[whistler162]

24. My understanding is that he didn't stay while verifying

Professor Gates ID. Crowley was on the porch attempting to hear the dispatcher verify that the Professor Gates he recieved ID from actually was the Professor Gates who lived there.

[lunatica]

16. That's got to be one of the best extended family photographs I've seen

The composition and the use of the front steps with everyone relaxed and squeezed together yet you can see every single face distinctly is excellent. I'm sure it wasn't an easy picture to set up. But the effect it has is that it's quite casual.

Was the photo taken on a timer or by someone?

[Perky]

17. My mom took it

but the truth of it is.... is an exercise in hearing cats. trying to get this crew focused on the camera is an absurd proposition

[lunatica]

18. Who would unrec this thread?

I've seen other threads with unrec's which have no reason to have them. Are the trolls now going around unrec'ing everything they can? I recommended it and the <0 went to 0. So it was one person doing it.

[masuki bance]

46. Probably someone who has demonized Crowley

But, it could be that 21 people unrec'd and you were the 21st rec just as easily.

[Jennicut]

19. Getting the kids to sit still is always the tough part in our family pics

I do think that both Crowley and Gates could have been profiling each other....as in Gates assumed Crowley would mistreat him because he was a black man and Crowley thought Gates was being the "angry black man". Who knows, maybe they can settle it over a beer with the Prez.

[babylonsister]

20. Nice pic, but I'm not getting #2. How

did Gates pick a fight? He was in his home when confronted by a cop who then arrested him.

So he picked the fight?

Sure.

[Perky]

23. The discussion centered on

the issue of whether or not Gates had a right to be angry when the Cops showed up at the door. The consensus was that he should not have been angry because he was not being profiled at that point. The mere fact that the cops show up at your door./...not knowing that is your door, responding to a 911 call from a passerby who thought she was seeing a break in, can not be construed as racial profiling. At least not by the cops.


SO then, it turned not on the issue of the 911 call but on the question of why did things escalate. That he THOUGHT he was being profiled is a vastly different question and goes to why he thought that way. Given the circumstances, the family thought it was unreasonable for him to think he was being profiled. No one disputed the profiling is a big problem, but there was ultimate agreement that the police did nothing wrong until they allowed the situation to escalate after Gates properly identified himself.

No one thought he should have been arrested. but no one thought he was profiled either.

[mnhtnbb]

21. What a great photo! I went to the bookstore this weekend and bought Gates' book,

"The Future of the Race" written with Cornel West.

Least I can do to support the guy is to buy one of his books.

I also bought (on Amazon, used) a copy of John Hope Franklin's seminal work, "From Slavery to Freedom: A History of African Americans"

[Fire1]

41. Hope it helps. n/t

[BeyondGeography]

22. The guy was just getting back from China

He was completely exhausted. I've done that trip a few times. The slightest thing goes wrong when I get home and I become homicidal (I'm assuming Gates has a better temper than me; he only yelled a bit). It's the one thing about this that people keep missing, probably because it's so mundane.

[Cha]

42. Yeah, getting back from a

week long trip to China is so "mundane"..

Imv, it's an extraordinary component of the unfolding events.

Plus, now there's conflicting stories with Crowley's report and the woman who made the 911 call.

We'll see what happens but again, imv, this was a bad call by the cop.

[BeyondGeography]

44. Fatigue is mundane

(Someone missed the point.)

[hileeopnyn8d]

25. Great photo!

I guess I'm the only one that sees this thread as a "See, even my multi-racial family agrees with my post from a few days ago, where I said Gates was wrong, and if anyone is a racist it's Gates."

I don't know, I guess I could be reading more into it. Perhaps if I hadn't read that thread immediately prior to this one, I might not have that impression.

[Perky]

26. The discussion begain with me asking them to take a look at the thread.

They thought the whole thing was being overblown and reinterpeted by the DU Crowd.


One of my cousins even asked if there were any black on DU...I told her that I was sure there were some but I did not know who was responding to the tread. She's interracial and adopted and said that most of her black friends were not talking about it at all, and those that had talked about it were much more split than than DU.

[PurityOfEssence]

27. Hell of a good example of pluralism

I question the last point a bit, though; I think that many of the caucasians here who took umbrage were very truly empathetic about the unequal justice blacks get. In some cases, though, it's a knee-jerk reaction, though, and in many cases driven out of a need for approval for being "good".

The lack of willingness to see anything but stark simplicity, and the willingness to amp up the screaming with strident accusations of Crowley obviously being a racist thug is very dangerous, though, and the stomping down of voices of moderation (especially the speed and vehemence with which it was done) speaks volumes.

Point four IS very telling, though, and the contention that posters here are deeply suspicious about authority is amply demonstrated in yesterday's big cop-hating thread.

All in all, though, your family seems to "get it", and I hope it was a fun experience.

Thanks for posting the results.

[grantcart]

28. which one are you Perky?

[Perky]

32. Back row with the ball cap

[Sebass1271]

29. Very nice and good looking family. Truly American!!

it represents what Ameica is today and will continue to be we should send it to the repubs. Be proud

[uponit7771]

30. WOW!! I thought my wifes side of the family was inclusive.....nice pic

[burning rain]

33. Your family just lost stock in the eyes of many here.

DU's burgeoning brigade of the ultra-pious and self-aggrandizing will settle for nothing less than full-throated endorsement of everything Gates said and did, and unequivocal condemnation of Crowley as a racist brute.

[bigwillq]

35. Great pic!

What a good looking family! :hi:

[Uzybone]

36. Great family n/t

[Perky]

37. WHat make this all the more remarkable is where the photo is taken

This is the progeny of the 3 daughters and one son born and raised in rural, segregated Montezuma, Georgia in the 1950s and in front of the 125 year old ancestral home.

[grantcart]

38. There's a movie in that picture.

[Perky]

39. ANd it not simply te result of interracial marirage. It is largely the result of adoptions

a generation ago.

[Fire1]

40. HA!! Number 4 is ON POINT!!!! Nail on the Head!! n/t

[Raineyb]

43. #2 has been disproven by the release of the tape of Crowley

But don't let that get in the way.

:shrug:

[Honeycombe8]

45. My thoughts exactly! And boy, have I been flamed for it.

You may escape the flaming because of your fantastic picture. I hope so.

(Beautiful family, BTW.)

[Perky]

48. You and me both

I was even called a southern white bigot.....lol

[angee_is_mad]

47. Black Woman Here

and I disagree wholeheartedly with your family's opinion. Respectfully of course. Oh and my black family feel the same way that I do.

[Cha]

49. Hi angee,

I disagree with everyone of the points except number 1.

I certainly don't have a problem with authority..they have their job to do..it's real nice for all concerned if they don't abuse it, though.

[xultar]

56. Another Sistah in the house. My family and I came to the same outcome as Perky

Almost the same five points. And it was just me with my parents and other family and friends all black.

We think differently doesn't mean that we can't have those views and still get along.

[Beacool]

50. I'm tired of the whole Gates - Crowley issue.

Although, I would love to know which one is Perky in this pic.

Come on, don't be shy.........

:D

[Perky]

53. I am actually the hardest see: Last row ballcap

[Beacool]

54. I see you...............

Between the two women, right?

Nice family pic!!!

:hi:

[Perky]

55. Yeppers

[ecstatic]

51. Nice family, but in that situation I would just play nice to

keep the peace.

[xultar]

57. Well you would think my family is crazy as hell. We don't play nice.

[Peacetrain]

52. What a nice picture...

We have a wonderful family who is a rainbow also..

[xultar]

58. My family and I came to the same 5 point conclusion this weekend.

[Hepburn]

59. OT....

...Wow....what a beautiful family! You are blessed! :hug:

[jeffrey_X]

60. Awesome looking family!

Thanks for sharing.