Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Warning to Moderate and Conservative Congressional Democrats

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 09:15 PM
Original message
Warning to Moderate and Conservative Congressional Democrats
You know liberal and progressive activists can be pushed, since the Democratic Party is the only real horse we have to ride on in big races. You know that we know that Republicans for the most part will do greater direct harm to many important matters that we care about than will centrist Democrats if elected. It is a potent intellectual argument that you are never to shy to make to us, and it has served you well in the recent past. We suffered together through 8 years of a Bush - Cheney Administration, suffering that took a very high human toll. So many liberal and progressive activists were highly motivated to vote for, raise money for, and work for virtually any Democrat running in either the 2006 or 2008 elections. Progressives got motivated to be pragmatic, and we all got fired up to help pull off sweeping Democratic victories in every corner of this great land. But that was then and this is now.

Now we want to taste some of the fruits of all those electoral victories. The thing is, most liberal and progressive activists have always been far more reasonable politically than we are often given credit for. We understand political realities, we know many of you face elections in districts and states that no one would describe as liberal, let alone Progressive. So we don't expect to get all of what we want out of centrist Democrats in Congress now. But there comes a point beyond the breaking point, and that point is rapidly approaching. Take us much more for granted at your own peril, because you need us as much as we need you. In fact you may need us more than we need you.

You need us to deliver you the solid majority status in Congress that you all crave, with all of the perks power and privileges that come with it. We worked hard to rid most regions of this nation from most elected Republicans in Congress. It wasn't easy, but we were motivated. Mess with that motivation and see what happens next. On a more personal level you need us to work silently in the shadows propping up the underpinnings of your personal election campaigns in districts that will start out stacked against you for the foreseeable future. You need the money that we raise nationally and send into your conservative leaning districts that enables you to make your moderate cases to constituents. You need us hanging your lit on door knobs, you need us stacking up the chairs after your campaign rallies. You need us spreading damning information about your Republican opponents like prairie grass fires over the internet, and you absolutely need us to keep making the Democratic Party case, any time, anywhere, to anyone we encounter with the kind of passion that only flows from deeply held convictions.

Want to kill that passion? It's easily done; just trample on our hopes for change, and seal the deal with disrespect. Taking us for granted will do that trick effectively. Act like our support is in the bag no matter how much of our agenda you bargain away in your pursuit of a few more center right votes, and you will soon find out exactly where that leaves you. The support you are courting is fickle at best, they are called swing voters for a reason. We understand that you need to win some of that support nonetheless, but do you understand that you can't afford to lose much of our support? Our passion is your ultimate margin of victory. We can be flexible, even highly flexible at times. But do you understand just how deeply most of us believe in a single payer health care system? Do you really? Yet we compromise our principles for your political needs. And as we do you take that as a signal that you are now free to move even further to the right.

Even saplings snap in the perfect storm, and health care reform that does not include a legitimate and viable public option may bring on that storm, and then where will you turn to for shelter from the storm?


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. The Perfect Rant.
I thank you!

I am so pissed off.

K&R

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-29-09 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #1
13. Thank you
It's not even a matter of whether or not progressives start to disengage consciously from the Democratic Party. It's more whether or not we continue to have the heart to work our asses off for it when it really counts. The will is the first thing to fade.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
happygoluckytoyou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
31. I AM A ONE ISSUE DEMOCRAT....Health Care Public Option OR LOSE MY VOTE....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Atticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. Very well said! nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SoxFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
3. -
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
4. Excellent post

I would also add this: There are strong economic arguments for real health care reform. President Obama has outlined them well. American however responds more to great moral challenges, whether ending slavery, fighting great crusades against world despotism or achieving great steps in advancing mankinds ability to reach beyond itself.

In the end let the health care debate be settled by the moral imperatives. Go back to the federal budget with a 'tabula rasa' - start with an empty page put health care at the top and then prioritize down from that. Some things will be cut, a few programs that no longer make sense and a few exotic weapons systems that are expensive but clearly redundant.

Finally if your from a conservative district we understand your difficulty but the best asset we have is our brand. It is more in your self interest to back a bill that may be difficult to sell in your district than to undermine the "Democratic" Brand that you run on. If you turn the party into the "Party that couldn't shoot straight" you will lose more votes than you will for a plan that extends health care benefits but will create budgetary problems.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Great point grantcart
"The Democratic Brand" is on the line and it is more important for Democrats to be seen as strong and competent at delivering what we promise, and as passionate advocates for our core beliefs, than it is to constantly swing like a weather vein to line up with an assumed to be safe political position on an issue in any individual district. A perceived Democratic Party failure will always be framed as a Republican Party victory, and that will cut the legs out from under blue, yellow, and green dog Democrats with little regard to color.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NBachers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
6. We can pull the rug out from under you, fuckwads
and don't think we won't do it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
7. "You need us" isn't strong enough.
Landrieu won re-election in 2008. What we need is the Ned Lamont effect (running progressive Democrats against them despite the establishment).


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
8. They're not moderates
They're corrupt and well to the right of mainstream.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
9. Enthusiastic K&R. Great stuff!
Yes!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandyd921 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
10. Unfortunately too many of them think they don't need us.
They think all they need is their corporate patrons. Not saying that what we do to help elect them isn't important, just that it appears that in this system $$$ speak louder than citizen activists. I'm also not saying that we shouldn't be doing everything in our power to show them what losing our support will mean, we need to do that and more. But it's also time to fully grasp what we are up against and to gird ourselves for what may lay ahead.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. Not quite.
They know they don't need us.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
11. Finally, A Good Commonsensical Rant
Bravo!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-28-09 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
12. K and
R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
14. I wrote this more than two weeks ago
But this seemed a good moment for a final kick.

If Democrats can defend Medicare they can defend the Public Option. It goes to the heart of being a Democrat.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #14
30. We need to start outlining specific retaliation measures now.


Specifically we should make it clear that any Senator who opposes Public Option will lose their coveted Chairmanship.


It is through these chairs that the they are able to manipulate the lobbyists and raise so much money without much effort.


No Democratic Senator would give up their chairmanship to vote against the public option.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. If our party leadership is committed to the public option...
that is exactly the kind of screw turning they should signal is in store for those who would deny it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raffi Ella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
16. damn Tom, that is good.
I'd love to co-sign it and send it up to the Hill.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
17. Recommend. Summed up my sentiments very nicely.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MidwestRick Donating Member (604 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
18. Just be careful of what you wish for
Yes we have control of Congress and the White House, but in regards to the Congress, that (imho) only happened because the moderates and blue dogs were recruited to run in conservative districts. I'm not sure we would have taken control of the House or Senate if progressives ran in those elections.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raffi Ella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Hi, welcome to D.U.


You've got a point but it doesn't negate what Our Party stands for and what the Senators must fight for. They serve the people; the people elected a Liberal Democrat who ran on healthcare reform and he won, by a large majority.

As far as I'm concerned President Obama got a mandate last November to pass a healthcare reform bill with a public option. That's what I expect to happen.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MidwestRick Donating Member (604 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. Thanks for the welcome.
I agree that reform needs to done, and done soon. Threatening moderates will not help our party. The last election promoted a big tent theory to retake the control of the House. Threatening to turn our backs on fellow Democrats (even if you don't truly agree with them on all issues) only seems to be a way to cut off our noses to spite our faces.

There are many conservative districts that progressives will have a difficult time matching the turn out that these moderates and Blue Dogs get from Independents and even Republicans. I certainly want health care reform, but imagine how difficult anything will be able to get done, if the Republicans regain the House or Senate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raffi Ella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. But see
the problem with this argument, that threatening the Moderates won't help, is that a bill could be passed with 50+1. We actually do NOT need the Blue Dogs to get this done.

Yes, we are a Big Tent Party and Yes, the blue Dogs are important but passing this bill does NOT depend on them.

If Our Senators can't get a bill now they never will. They need to fight and fight like hell. It's the right thing to do, Blue Dogs or No Blue Dogs. Whether Blue Dogs get re elected or not. The time has come for a public option.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. I think you missed a nuance here
The left compromises all of the time because usually it's the rational political thing to do. Not insisting on serious consideration of a single payer system is an obvious example of that (however had Single Payer really been put on the table then a Public Option might have been easier to sell when all was said and done as the reasonable compromise position it was always meant to be).

No we may not have taken Congress with Progressives running in all the districts that the Blue Dogs won, but there still are distinctions to be made. Some so called "moderate Democrats" are really Conservatives, and some so called "conservative Democrats" are closet Republicans at best; the kind that frequently changed their Party affiliation to Republican after being elected as Democrats during the Reagan Bush years - when Republicans seemed to have the upper electoral hand. Democratic members of Congress need to dance with the partner that brought them to the dance in the first place. Sure they all get a say in how to dance; maybe more slow dancing than some would prefer, but there's trouble brewing ifthey insist on flirting heavily with Republicans, as well there should be.

My OP wasn't an argument against helping elect moderate Democrats in conservative leaning districts, it was a reminder to those Democrats that there will be a price to pay if they take our support overly for granted after they take those seats.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MidwestRick Donating Member (604 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. My apology.
You are absolutely correct then.

Personally, I think the administration needs to keep Rep. Weiner out in front of this issue. He made a brilliant case for support of the public option this morning. It made my day to see Scarborough squirm in his seat unable to answer the simple question the representative posed him.

With that type of backing...out in the public eye, the moderates and Blue Dogs will have no choice but amend their current stance.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
20. K & R (nt)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kermitt Gribble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
25. Excellent post, Tom.
Health care reform is the final straw for me, after a long series of disappointments since 2006.

K&R.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DontTreadOnMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. It is the line in the sand for me too!
If public option is not included in real healthcare reform, I will abandon the Democratic Party forever.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
man4allcats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
26. Put another way,
Edited on Tue Aug-18-09 10:20 AM by man4allcats
do your damned job or we'll send you packing.

I love this scene:

(Tuco is in a bubble bath. The One Armed Man enters the room)

One Armed Man: I've been looking for you for 8 months. Whenever I should have had a gun in my right hand, I thought of you. Now I find you in exactly the position that suits me. I had lots of time to learn to shoot with my left.

(Tuco kills him with the gun he has hidden in the foam)

Tuco: When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk.

--------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: Reference to this scene from "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly" is not meant to imply violence or the threat of violence toward any elected official. It is metaphorical only; nothing more.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
27. The blue dogs have little hand party wise in this because no one believes
they will be turned out (in lots of cases years down the line) for voting for a public option. Meanwhile, reps from liberal districts can't go home with a trillion dollars worth of nothing.

Baucus has really messed this up with his gang of six crap and will have to work with Reid and Obama to get it fixed if he can't.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PVnRT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
29. K&R
Beautifully said.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU GrovelBot  Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 01:43 PM
Original message
## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##



This week is our third quarter 2009 fund drive. Democratic Underground is
a completely independent website. We depend on donations from our members
to cover our costs. Please take a moment to donate! Thank you!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
emsimon33 Donating Member (904 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
32. YES!!!! You have verbalized what so many of us feel.
Thank you!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
abq e streeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
34. i just hate it when someone says exactly what I'm thinking so much better than I could have
just kidding, don't hate it all ; just a little jealous of your skill at expressing what I and so many others are thinking and feeling. Well said, and a goddam shame that it needed to be said at all.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
35. I tried to recommend this thread after reading it for the first time
and got a message that I had recommended it previously. In whose dreams?

Maybe my guardian angel turned on my computer and recommended it while I was sleeping?

Anyway, does anyone have any ideas about what we do if we don't get a robust public option? Organize an alternative to the Democratic Party? Run progressive candidates against blue dogs in their districts? All join DFA and get active on their projects?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
36. The Democrats
who unequivocally support the public option will get reelected. If Health care reform doesn't pass the Democrats who sided with Republicans will lose their seats. Why would someone vote for a fake Republican in a cheap disguise when they can get a real Republican?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-18-09 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
37. Well put, and what's more:
many loyal lefties have stuck with the party out of solidarity in the face of an organized neo-feudalism. Now that the enemy has ebbed considerably and our champions have shown themselves to be such corporatists and enablers, there's less reason to not go for the farther left options.

This may very well be a time of great fragmentation.

As always, a very good post and passionate in its level-headedness.

Politics is a form of show business, and people LOVE to make the stories greater than they really are: pitfalls become chasms, upswings become triumphs and disillusionment becomes betrayal. Obama has ridden the crest of enthusiasm for quite some time; the backlash will also be out of proportion.

I hope they get it together, but there's never really a good way to when in the middle of the road.

So many very different people were so convinced that he was for everything they believed in, and he carefully allowed them to do so. Now the rules have changed: being all things to all people in all cases that couldn't be outrightly ducked won't work anymore.

In many ways, it's a rerun of the Clinton Administration. Even when they were impeaching him, Bill still thought they'd love him if he just conceded a bit more here and there. Sometimes smart people just don't get it.

One thing I must say that's getting more irritating is hearing self-indulgent and melodramatic bellyaching of betrayal from the same people who vehemently slapped down any of us who pointed this out a long time ago. MANY people saw this shilly-shallying, and were harangued into silence by those who just KNEW that he would be the shining light of all that's good and true.

Throttling back a bit, people need to realize that he's about the best we can really hope for in this third decade of reactionary atavism. He will provide a bulwark against some of the more aggressive monarchic rollbacks, and he'll be a voice for at least the medium-sized guy, if not the little guy, and we should try to keep it all in perspective.

We shall see.

Nice to see you posting again, and always nice to see some orderly thought and feelings...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 19th 2024, 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC