Birthers by geographical area. Just in case you don't think this is about racism.

[Hamlette]

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_07/019306.php

edited to add: 58% of republicans don't believe or aren't sure Obama was born here. The party of racism?

Now you know why those congressmen won't be interviewed on the subject.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0709/58_of_GOP_not_suredont_beleive_Obama_born_in_US.html

[redqueen]

1. deleted

[dsc]

2. I live in Raleigh NC and work for the schools

Our schools serve Wake County and are integrated even using bussing. Wake County includes not only Raleigh, which is a racially mixed city but a slew of largely white suburbs including Cary and Morrisville. For those familiar with the Cleveland area, it would be as if Cleveland Heights or Lakewood schools were bussed to Cleveland and vice versa. For those familiar with Chicago it would be as if Evanston schools were cross bussed with Chicago. For those familiar with Pittsburg it would be as if Coropolis or Glassport cross bussed with Pittsburg. In short, we, the southern racists that we are, actually have integrated schools while you all live in segregated school districts falling back on the town line mantra. I am sick of hearing about how racist we southerners are. When you integrate your largely failing city schools you can get on your high horse about us.

[kestrel91316]

3. Funny, I thought the post was about who believes what about

Obama's birthplace, and NOT about school integration.

Change the subject much?

[dsc]

4. The OP clearly stated that the south is racist

my point is that for northerners to call southerners racist without having cleaned up their own acts first is hypocrisy.

[Drunken Irishman]

16. Compared to most of America, yeah it is.

Look at a map and compare the vote increase/decrease from 2004 to 2008 and you clearly see a trend. Across the board, Obama did better than Kerry in nearly every county and state EXCEPT in much of the south, where McCain even out performed Bush.

Why?

Is Kerry all that much different politically than Obama?

So how can you justify a group of Southern voters going for Kerry in larger numbers than Obama -- who was not running against an incumbent president?

Was McCain better liked in the south than Bush? I don't think so. The only explanation is that Kerry is white and Obama is black.



The only part of the south Obama performed better in than Kerry was the New South -- places that aren't racist. But through the deep south, especially the white deep south and Appalachia, he did worse.

[nyc 4 Biden]

25. I have that map displayed proudly on my corkboard next to my desk...

It is a beautiful thing!

[smoochpooch]

30. I wonder what that little red area in Idaho is? Probably militia types? n/t

[Critters2]

36. Wow. Remind me never to move to Arkansas! nt

[mwb970]

49. On this map, Arkansas looks like Ground Zero for the Taliban.

I would have expected it to be SC, but apparently not.

[Critters2]

59. I would've thought Alabama or Mississippi. Live and learn. nt

[SpartanDem]

85. MS and AL have much larger black populations

that had a huge turnout, but overwhelmingly whites in those states voted against Obama

[Critters2]

90. Of course that's true. I should've taken that into consideration. nt

[BR_Parkway]

81. In 2004 - Arkansas passed a no gay marriage amendment by 74%

Apparently they didn't have anything so "important' to vote on in 2008

[pnorman]

40. I've been looking FURIOUSLY for that very map!

I also now have the Wiki source. THANKS!

pnorman

[pampango]

17. It is ironic that the Gates-Crowley racial profiling incident occurred in the North, not the South.

Why did this happen in the North (less racist police and populace?) and not in the South (where most DU'ers could have just opined "there go those Southern racists again")?

There was an OP here a few weeks ago to the effect that African American students in the South have narrowed the test score gap with white students more than has occurred in Northern and Western states. Some of that may have to do with the fact that bussing in the South combines urban and suburban school districts, so that there can be more effective desegregation than in Northern cities where bussing is restricted to students who live in the city itself.

Residential segregation, which exists everywhere including the South, is actually worse in the North.

http://www.censusscope.org/us/rank_dissimilarity_white_black.html

The top 14 urban areas for African-American residential segregation are all Northern cities, before Birmingham comes in at #15.

The South has plenty of problems (they elect repubs, for one thing :) ), but is not the caricature of the antebellum or Jim Crow South that was true in years past.

[Umbral]

18. Perhaps is does happen, but isn't considered news worthy? nt

[pampango]

21. Perhaps it does happen in Mississippi, but we know it does in Massachusetts, don't we.

I have the feeling that if this happened to an African American professor at the University of Mississippi, DU would have a field day with "Southern racist" cops and the society that breeds them.

[Chulanowa]

32. Maybe it is hypocritical. But it's also true.

I'm a brown guy from the south. Mostly Mobile Alabama, but I spent some time in your neighborhood - Wake Forest - as a kid. i've since meandered through every portion of the nation except the Northeast.

What I can tell you is that while racism is all over, it only reaches any level of social approval in the south. Now to be sure, lots of southerners are as put off by it as anyone else. But...

Have you ever taken a social studies or history class in the south, DSC? When? What state? My last history class in the south was 1999 in Alabama. The civil war was interesting. Here, let me tell you about it.

The civil war was not about slavery, according to this class' textbook and teacher. Had nothing to do with it. The civil war was about "state's rights". It was about Tariffs. it was about Fort Sumter. But it was most definitely not about slavery. That's just northern propaganda. Indeed, the emancipation proclamation was a criminal act, designed to incite slaves to revolt and kill their masters! Prior to this declaration, the slaves were content in their lives - and the masters were really good to their slaves, clothing and feeding them and all. After the war, there was reconstruction - which according to the textbook, was a period where northern carpetbaggers, and southern race traitors scalawags tricked the poor ignorant useless ex-slaves into taking over every state, and running it into the ground! it used this illustration to back this claim up:



What's very interesting is that there is no mention anywhere that Lincoln, or the "carpetbagger" or the "scalawags" (the book uses these perjoratives as actual terms to be seriously learned) were Republicans.

it then proceeds to utterly ignore the situation of blacks between 1870 and 1940. it did take time to mention the Fedreral Government (and it makes sure to use the term "Federal Government" lots!) smashed the original Ku Klus Klan

Now more personal to me was this textbook's portrayal of Indians in the south. You see, there was quite adequate coverage of the Fort Mims massacre... Except that there was no mention that it was a part of the War of 1812. No, the book just portrayed it as a bunch of Indians who slaughtered lots of "settlers." The book had no mention of Andrew Jackson's visit to the Choctaw at Rabbit Creek, where he threatened us with annihilation. Instead it stated the aftermath - "the Choctaw peacably sold their land and moved west to make room for settlers."

George Wallace is also portrayed in a vaguely heroic role - He wasn't barring black children from school, he was protesting federal imposition against state's rights!

This was a mere ten years ago. Knowing what I do of the textbook industry, I can't imagine ten years is enough time to get this thing changed. Since Alabama uses a statewide textbook system, this is what every high school junior in the state was learning. And it was being taught, presumably perfectly serious, by every high school history teacher in the state. And it was being nodded over by probably a hell of a lot of parents across the entire state.

Now sure, okay, that's just one state. And it's a pretty limited example - high school history. But this is what's taught to the kids. it's what the approval board finds acceptable. There are of course "confederate" flags flying all over the place, and the phrase "The South Shall Rise Again" is pretty common. Before I left, segregation was still a quiet reality - You had "black restaurants" and "white restaurants" even if they weren't that way "officially."

There are still plenty of people who grew up in the segregated south. A fair number of them consider those "the good ol' days". Their kids and grandkids are being raised on a racist and incorrect history of their region. The common political culture is that of the "Dixiecrat" Republicans - You know, the "State's rights wink wink nudge nudge" politicians?

Now, sure. Racism's all over the damn country. Some of the most vicious racism I've ever seen was in Alaska - from Alaska Natives, directed at Filipinos. But in my experience, only in the south is it as integrated into the common culture. At the very best it could be termed "racial ignorance."

Sorry if this offends you. But in this case, the truth of the situation is pretty offensive.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

43. The south as a whole has racial issues. More so then other regions.

Poll after poll indicate this. You have to be a idiot not to recognize this. Yeah, Metro areas aren't so bad but go out to rural parts of your state and hang with the locals a bit and you'll change your tune. Same thing here in VA and it only gets worse the further you go south...

[angee_is_mad]

60. I'm in Greensboro

and two years ago we just elected the 1st Black mayor, who happens to be a woman. In spite of that and GSO being the 3rd largest city in NC, there are some racist ass MOFOers and they are sitting on City Council.

I know its hard to hear people constantly bashing the South for being racist, but we have to also admit that our house is still dirty.

At least in the south racism is more open, which is easier to deal with and call people out on it. In other parts of the country it is more subtle and you start questioning yourself, when you weren't the one making the dumbass remarks, arrest, or actions.

[quickesst]

70. Sadly.....

...there are many so-called "progressives" who cannot sustain their sense of morality without a scapegoat to embolden that sense. Not being able to stand on the merits of their own personal belief that they are good democrats/liberals, the staunch belief in the stereotype is what holds them together. They hate us, but they need us. Without the south, and without our past, they might be forced to examine more closely their own back yard, and finding it lacking, might be too much for their sensibilities to handle. Like I said, they need us. They need us in the same sense that repukes need their commie/liberal stereotype to sustain their beliefs giving them an excuse to forego any real self-examination of themselves. Common ground. Thanks.
quickesst

[CTLawGuy]

7. how many northern states started a war with the US

in order to preserve its racist society?

How many Northern states voted for Strom Thurmond for president in '48?

How many Northern states voted for George Wallace for President in '68?

There's a reason the south is so heavily associated with racism.

[dsc]

8. George Wallace did as well in the northern primaries as the southern ones before he was shot

just so you know. Also both Ohio and Pennsylvania had several southern sympathisers in their ranks.

[CTLawGuy]

10. so what

he didn't carry a single northern state.

[Warren Stupidity]

54. yes well since you brought up Wallace

64: democratic primaries - entered and lost three of them, Wisconsin, Maryland and Indiana, he won a third of the vote in each state. Perhaps this was the campaign where you think he did as well in the north as the south? He lost all of these primaries.

68: AIP party candidate for president, carried 5 southern states.

72: Wallace is back as a Democrat and wins primaries in Florida, Tennessee, North Carolina, Maryland, and Michigan. Gets shot and withdraws. I see exactly one Northern state there.

76: Carries Alabama, Mississippi, and South Carolina.

[DefenseLawyer]

12. Newsflash- the South has major racial issues.

Look, there are racists everywhere. We all know that. But seriously, anyone who has lived or spent time in the South and says that racism isn't interwoven into the culture of the South is just kidding themselves. I lived in Louisiana for four years, so I speak from my own experience. Clearly not everyone in the South is a racist, but racism is inextricably tied to the culture. Rather than getting all defensive, it might be better to acknowledge that it is a historical and cultural fact that we shouldn't shy away from. We all could do a better job in improving race relations, but your "we don't have a problem down here" is laughable. Sorry.

[redqueen]

20. Phrases like "interwoven in the culture of the South" are vague.

Do you mean to say there are more racists in the South?

[DefenseLawyer]

26. Here's a fun game: Google the phrase "segregated proms"

Tell me, where are those happening, in 2009? Interwoven into the culture isn't vague at all.

[dsc]

27. The north avoids segregated proms by having segregated schools

incidently there are no segregated proms in NC.

[pampango]

31. Products of residential segregation worse than in the South and the lack of school bussing

that combines suburban and urban school districts boundaries as happens in the South. Suburban kids stay in their suburbs and city kids stay in their city in the North.

[DefenseLawyer]

39. Right...

There are no integrated schools in the North. No black students attend school with white people. All black people live in the inner city. All white people are rich and live in the suburbs. You really don't believe that nonsense do you? There are plenty of integrated schools in the north and none of them have segregated proms. Do they have racial problems? Sure. As much as in the South? Sure, maybe more. Do they have a culture that would view a segregated prom as perfectly reasonable? Well there aren't any, so I guess not. That's just one tiny example. I am not bashing the South. Really. But it does have some unique problems that haven't really been resolved.

[Danmel]

65. I live in the suburbs of nyc

And our school district is integrated. It is very diverse with a rather substantial African-American population, as well as Asian, both east Asian & south Asian- Indian & others. There is a smaller Latino population,but like everywhere else, I imagine that will grow. My neighborhood is somewhat less integrated than the school district as a whole, and there is one majority minority area but not all northern suburbs are segregated. As to the larger percentage of "birthers" in the south, racism certainly plays a substantial part. But at the risk of raising some hackles here, the poor schools and educational system , the lack of intellectual rigor of fundamentalism, the more rural insular lifestyle & the lack of competing ideas in the media doesn't help either. Still , I have night doubt that if Obama was "white", we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[redqueen]

29. What's that phrase? The plural of anecdote is not data?

What does this map seem to indicate to you?
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/hate.jsp#s=

[DefenseLawyer]

33. That appears to be a map pointing out that hate groups flourish

throughout the country. They do. As I said, there are racists everywhere. I'm not talking about racists. I am talking about the extent to which issues of race are overtly part of the culture and part of the society. It's silly to suggest that the rest of the country is in the same position on race as the South. Given the historical foundations of slavery, reconstruction and Jim Crow, it's just silly to suggest it's the same everywhere. People in the south are no better or worse than people anywhere, but yes, the culture is different.

[redqueen]

34. I guess if your point is not whether the south is more racist...

but whether people in the south are just less willing to hide it, then we may agree.

[pampango]

42. There is a net migration now of African Americans leaving the North and West and going to the South.

http://www.brookings.edu/reports/2004/05demographics_frey.aspx

"The South scored net gains of black migrants from all three of the other regions of the U.S. during the late 1990s, reversing a 35-year trend. Of the 10 states that suffered the greatest net loss of blacks between 1965 and 1970, five ranked among the top 10 states for attracting blacks between 1995 and 2000. After several decades as a major black migrant "magnet," California lost more black migrants than it gained during the late 1990s. Southern states, along with western "spillover" states like Arizona and Nevada, received the largest numbers of black out-migrants from California."

"Among migrants from the Northeast, Midwest, and West regions, blacks were more likely than whites to select destinations in the South. Atlanta and Washington, D.C. were the top destinations for black migrants from all three regions; white migrants moved to a broader set of areas including Miami, Phoenix, and Los Angeles. Southern metropolitan areas, particularly Atlanta, led the way in attracting black migrants in the late 1990s. In contrast, the major metropolitan areas of New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, and San Francisco experienced the greatest out-migration of blacks during the same period."

"College-educated individuals lead the new migration into the South. The "brain gain" states of Georgia, Texas, and Maryland attracted the most black college graduates from 1995 to 2000, while New York suffered the largest net loss.

There is indeed plenty of racism in the South, but its victims historically seem to believe that life there is preferable to life in the Northern cities.

[dsc]

23. Please provide the "we don't have a problem down here" quote

I would like it now or an apology for lying. I never said such a thing. What I did say is that for people who themselves have set up both racist and underperforming school systems to lecture anyone else about racism is rich. The fact that it was hypocritical for Mark Sanford to complain about Clinton's adultery given his behavior doesn't make Clinton less of an adulterer.

[DefenseLawyer]

28. The purpose of your post

was to defend the South as being no different than the rest of the country on issues of race. Granted you veered off into school busing to make your point, but that was clearly the point- That there isn't a problem regarding race in the south that isn't exactly the same in the rest of the country. I would suggest that it is different, that racism in the south is more overt and an accepted or at least acknowledged part of the everyday lives of many people. There are plenty of good people in the south. The rest of the country isn't "better" than you. Still, Jim Crow isn't ancient history. Pretending it is doesn't do much to further progress.

[Hansel]

88. +1. I lived in Mississipi for a year as a teenager in the 70's

There were still "No Coloreds" and "Whites Only" signs all over the place.

I would like to know from people defending the south's attitude about race, what other plausible explanation there is for over half of its Republican population believing Obama is not an American. Stupidity? Would that be a step up?

[JoePhilly]

53. I've lived in the Cary / Apex area for ~18 years ... and I don't agree.

Being in the Suburbs here, there are generally very few minority kids in the public schools my kids attend.

As for racism here ... it is easy to find. Sometimes you need not even look for it.

About 2 weeks ago, my high school age son, who is white, was taking a driver's ed class. There was another white guy sitting next to him in the class. They had never met before.

In another part of the room, some one mentioned Obama .... the white kid sitting next to my son leans over and whispers "I can't believe that N***** is our President".

The kid assumed that my son would agree with him simply because my son was another white kid. He thought it was fine to make that comment so long as he whispered it.

That apple did not fall far from the tree.

The GOP's Southern Strategy is still alive and well. Its just a bit more subtle now.

[cwydro]

56. Thank you dsc.

I was in the first wave of busing back in the 70's. Charlotte and Boston were the two cities to be the pilot projects.

We integrated with little trouble, while in Boston mobs of angry whites attacked school buses carrying little black children.

I'm so sick of the south bashing that goes on here.

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Chakab]

77. That was in Texas, not NC.

Speaking as a black man who grew up in Texas and has lived all over the country, I think that it is a bit dishonest to claim that the South has any sort of monopoly on racism. The places where I've received the worst treatment in my life (Upstate New York, Vermont, Boston, Cleveland) are all above the Mason-Dixon line.

[Forrest Greene]

78. Thank You, I'm Aware Of That Location

I was reusing the ignorant, broad-brush sentence structure found towards the end of the North Carolinian's original statement.

I do not claim the South has a monopoly on racism. I claim that white Southerners historically lynch more Black men, women, & children than do white Northerners, up to & including not many years ago, when the Texas torture & murder took place. I would suggest that, no matter how many insults or how much bad treatment you may have received in racist enclaves like Boston -- where I lived for many years -- you, as a Black man, would find it much easier to get into a deadly situation based on your skin color in the South.

Personally, I find the North Carolinian's self-righteous finger-pointing & desperate attempts to deny history simultaneously pathetic & nauseating.


<i>(Edited to add "women & children" to paragraph 2, sentence 1.)</i>

[nyc 4 Biden]

5. I don't see how this shows birthers are racists...

It just shows most of them live in the South.

[crispini]

6. Ah yes, but the OP is clearly inferring by her statement

that since most birthers live in the South, that must mean most birthers are racist, because of course everyone knows that all Southerners are racist. :eyes:

[Hamlette]

9. no fair with the strawmen

I did not/would not say ALL Southerners are racist but to argue that the south is not the most racist geographical area of the country is to ignore the facts.

The birther argument is racist. Right along with "states' rights" and other Atwater created acceptable ways of saying "nigger".

Why do you think most birthers live in the South? Their brains are fried by the excess heat?

Please

[crispini]

14. Now you've changed the argument.

Do you have any facts to prove that the South is the most racist geographical area of the country? You know, things other than heresy or "everyone knows" that the South is racist. Just curious.

Also, it still doesn't follow from your original argument, anyway. You're saying that more birthers live in the South, and more racists live in the south, therefore the birther thing is about race. It would be equally true to say that more REPUBLICANS live in the south and therefore the birther thing is about party. You still haven't connected the dots appropriately from A to B. Correlation is not causation.

[Hosnon]

45. The South is the most racist geographical area of the country? Care to back that up?

And the most likely explanation for this graph is that the South is the most conservative/Republican area of the country.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

62. Right, but conservatives and republicans are racist.

Saying that the graph doesn't mean their racist, because they're republican, is pretty much a tautology.

Saying the south has serious issues with racism is like saying Afghanistan has serious problems with sexism.

It's a given.

[Hosnon]

74. Republicans' being racist and Republicans' living in the South does not mean that

there is anything about the South that is more racist than the rest of the country.

If every Republican picked up and moved to Vermont, this graph would show that Vermont has the most birthers. Would Vermont then be racist?

[redqueen]

19. Not all, just most. It seems to be accepted as true by most DUers

that there are more racists in the south than in the north.

As for me, I don't accept that that's necessarily true.

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/hate.jsp#s=

[Hosnon]

47. I certainly don't accept it as necessarily true. Comparatively, no other region must confront

racism and racial tension to the degree that the South must.

It's similar (though not the same) as people in Finland looking down on the U.S. for our racial problems.

[Drunken Irishman]

22. No. Even before I knew where most birthers lived, I thought they were racist.

This just pretty much solidifies the point.

[QC]

67. BINGO!

[Hamlette]

11. and that would be why?

why do you think most birthers live in the south? Got a more logical argument?

[rockymountaindem]

13. Did you check out that graph?

I don't see how it could be more clear. A lot more people in the south believe Obama is not an American or are "not sure" than hold the same beliefs in other regions. That would suggest a lion's share of them live in the south, no?

[uponit7771]

15. History?

[BlooInBloo]

24. Yep. Racism's headquarters versus racism's branch offices elsewhere.

[GeorgeGist]

35. You would see nearly identical results if the question was ...

Do you believe the North won the Civil War?

[ShadowLiberal]

37. What's really scary was a pollsters early results in Virginia confirming the numbers

This posting on DailyKos really scared me, just how strong birther feelings are in Virginia, a state that Obama won by 6 points.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/7/31/760259/-Hard-to-believe,-but-birthers-are-REALLY-that-strong

[Honeycombe8]

38. It could be related to education. The south states are the ones with the largest

illiteracy percentages.

[boppers]

46. Yes, education could be a link.

Poverty levels, as well, along with other regionalisms... assuming racism may be a tad too simple.

[burning rain]

41. How very shocking & deeply surprising!

It would also have been interesting to ask several other questions -- re. evolution and faith healing (good gauges of irrationality), and interracial marriage and desegregation (to better isolate the racial factor).

[Hosnon]

44. Ah yes, since the South is different, it is clearly because it's racist. Where is Crowley from? nt.

[Honeycombe8]

48. Crowley isn't racist. Calling him derogatory names isn't helpful, just like

calling Gates a racist isn't helpful, either.

[Chakab]

50. No, Crowley's not a racist. He's just a prototypical

authoritarian goon policeman who abuses his power and lies to cover his tracks. You'll find those everywhere.

[SoxFan]

52. Give it a rest

Gates shot off his mouth and made "yo mama" comments. Crowley is a decent cop with no record of racist behavior at all. Claiming he's a racist is basically thinly disguised elitism directed at a blue collar Irish guy.

[Chakab]

55. People like you are fucking unbelievable.

The only source that claims Gates made any such comment about Crowley's "mama" is Crowley's police report which has already been impeached by the witness, Whalen, and her 911 call. Anti-blue collar working class Irish? Please. More like anti-authoritarian thugs who'll lock up law abiding citizens for not kissing their asses.

[Honeycombe8]

69. Ditto. Whatever racism I see in teh situation, happened on Gates' part, when he started

yelling at a policeman basically because he was a white male. Some people have preconceived ideas about others, based on the color of their skin.

The policeman was just doing his job. No one who calls him racist has ever identified any behavior the cop did towards Gates that was racist.

I'm just glad those who call Crowley racist aren't police officers. There's no telling how they'd perform their duties. Would they not respond to a possible break-in at a black man's house? Would they knock on the door and take a man's word that he isn't a burglar, and just leave? Hmmm...the burglar would then just have to answer the door and tell the cop to go away, and that's it. Pretty easy to be a burglar under those circumstances, I'd say.

[Chakab]

72. Like I said to the other one

People like you are unbelievable. It's been proven that Crowley manufactured his conversation with Whalen at the scene in order to justify his entry into the house and treatment of Dr. Gates, yet you still countenance his description of Gates' behavior as if it were neutral and objective and are using it to criticize Dr. Gates and accuse him of racism.

I hope that neither of you are cops. Because you're waaaaaaaaaay too eager to buy into the "angry black man" justification of Skip Gates' arrest for my taste.

[SoxFan]

82. Look at your own perjudices

You're waaaaaay too eager to buy into the "Archie Bunker" stereotype when talking about a blue collar Irish cop.

Sgt. Crowley teaches a course on preventing racial profiling at the police academy. he was reccomended for that gig by his African-American superior officer. Members of the defense bar vouch for his integrity. Yet you are convinced he's a racist, simply because he fits your bigoted notion of a nasty Irish knuckledragger.

[Chakab]

83. I'm not relying on any preconceived notions

about "dumb Irish flatfoots." I'm basing my opinion about this situation on the fact that the tape of Lucia Whalen's 911 call contradicts Crowley's police report. She never made any claim about having seen "black men with bag packs" on Gates' front porch. She pointed out that they had luggage, when pressed for a description of race identified one of the men as possibly being Hispanic and expressed her opinion that they may live there. She also completely denies speaking to Crowley at the scene. The glaring contradiction of the witness's statement and Crowley's report makes it clear that he fudged the facts to justify his action and calls into question his account of Gates behavior. Especially the alleged "yo mama"comment which I don't believe for a second that Gates said to Crowley.

I don't care how many classes on racial profiling he's taught. From the start, I've thought that this has been more about authoritarianism than racism. IMO Crowley arrested Gates for contempt of cop because he didn't like the way that Gates spoke to him after identifying himself, so he arrested him, wrote up a bogus report that cast Gates in a very negative light and had his cop buddies and the union back him. That happens all the time.

[Hosnon]

75. I implied he was and should not have. My point, however, was that no one is

blaming "the North" for his actions.

Like they would if this happened in Atlanta.

[Warren Stupidity]

57. So what is your explanation for the stunning difference in that graph.

And what do you think the motivation is for the birther believers?

[Hosnon]

73. That most Republicans live in the South, and Republicans are racist. It has little to do with

the South itself; that's just where the Republicans live.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[harun]

51. Could also mean people from the South are more willing to believe something

that is completely unsubstantiated if it supports what they "want" to believe. Regardless of race, creed, or anything else.

[Warren Stupidity]

58. Why would they want to believe this idiocy about this president?

[harun]

68. Because they are afraid of everything foreign to them. Dismissing Obama as

a foreigner is easier for them than confronting the reality that we live in a diverse country with diverse view points and diverse ethnicity's.

[Warren Stupidity]

71. what is so foreign about Hawaii born Obama other than his skin color?

The answer is staring at you and you just won't accept it. The Birfer Movement is about Obama's race. It is racism. "He is not one of us" - they are convinced of that - because he is not white. So back to the OP. Please explain why the south has one set of statistics for the birfer delusions while the rest of the country has a quite different set of statistics.

[harun]

89. I'm not accepting it or denying it. I am saying it could mean other things.

It is of course because of race but I see a torrent of racism in PA as well. However, over any of these racists dead bodies would they ever claim anything as stupid as Obama is not an American citizen.

[NYMountaineer]

61. Not surprising.

Reminds me of my I love being from the Northeast.

Not that the South is all bad, because I've met plenty of southerners who were great folks, but unfortunately, the nutjobs seem to cluster down around souther Appalachia.

If I recall, the inner south is the only area of the country that didn't trend more liberal in the 2008 election.

[TexasObserver]

64. Recommend

[agentS]

66. Pick your poison

You can spin this argument to say Southerners are racist, if you want. Given prior history, there is a lot precedence here.

Southerners and those who interact them have standing enough to say that it's not racism driving this poll.

Well OK then, if it's not racism, then that leaves...stupidity.

While Yes is the majority answer for the South poll, Unsure is the second place answer. That's pretty telling.
If you assume 99% of the No's are due to flat out racism, then stupidity has to count for a good to high majority of the Unsures.

At this point, this late in the game, either you know the Pres is a natural born whatever or you're a moron.

It's been debunked so many times by so many varied sources that there just isn't any reason to continue to charade. There just isn't any compelling evidence for the Unsures to even be Unsure. teh stoopid, indeed.

[JohnnyLib2]

79. Folklore flourishes in the South.....and it matters in this subject.

(Using the definition that folklore is "a body of widely held but false or unsubstantiated beliefs." )

Some of the ingredients I hear almost any week, here in Kentucky, are: "I heard at church," "do you think he might be the Antichrist," "in 10 years the country will be Muslim," "anybody should have a birth certificate." Those are just the polite versions. As always, some minds simply aren't swayed by factual information. I think we'll be hearing the "birther" angle all through President Obama's terms and beyond. Damn it.

It does seem like the highly visible and likable First Family is gradually chipping away at some old, old attitudes, but racism lives.

[old mark]

80. Interesting, but we have more than our share of racists here in

Yankeeland as well. All sorts of White Supremacists, Aryan Nationalists, you name it. The internet lets them all come together.


mark

[pipi_k]

84. Not to burst the racism balloon party or anything, but

are there any charts and graphs we can look at to compare things like:



"Do you believe Americans walked on the moon?"

or

"Do you believe the earth is more than 6,000 years old?"

or

"Do you believe a 12 week-old fetus is more important than a one year old child?"


Maybe most of the Birther crap boils down to stupidity level, and NOT racism. I don't suppose anyone ever considered that....

:shrug:

[Enrique]

86. i think it is, but that graph doesn't prove it n/t

[Jennicut]

87. There is racism in all of the states but its more blatant and out there in the south

I am from CT...in certain cities in Mass and CT there is the old style Irish and Italian neighborhoods that had a long standing issues with the African Americans in the same neighborhood. It was who was the last on the totem poll. My Grandmother spoke about this to me, foreigners were considered low but no one was as low as the poor blacks in the neighborhood. So it exists.
Now, for the birther polls....the most extreme Rethugs live more in the South and there could be racism there as well.