WH luring Snowe with 'trigger' on public option

[Pirate Smile]

WH luring Snowe with 'trigger' on public option

Could Olympia Snowe offer the breakthrough Democrats need for a public option in health care?

CNN is reporting that the White House, having largely ditched Republican Gang-of-Sixers Chuck Grassley and Mike Enzi, is in serious negotiations with Snowe about whether she would support a public option that only goes into effect years down the road if the private insurance industry doesn't come through with the type of reforms that cover more uninsured people.

This so-called "trigger" option may not be a silver bullet for a bipartisan breakthrough on health reform, but it might draw just enough hesitant Democratic moderates -- with cover from Snowe as a Republican supporter -- while appeasing liberals who are insisting on some kind of a public option.

The White House will have to frame this trigger proposal as something short of a mandate for government insurance, while still promising its base that the public option is out there as a threat to insurance companies who don't shape up.

Snowe has been a advocate for this trigger option for some time, but this is the first time that the White House seems to be engaged on this front.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0909/WH_luring_Snowe_with_trigger_on_public_option.html?showall

I wish I had a CNN link. I'll look for one.

[Captain Hilts]

1. Please, please, PLEASE make it so! Join our team Ollie! nt

[jefferson_dem]

2. The infamous trigger. Is it perfect? NO! Is it reform? YES!

Is it about where most people expected this thing would land? YES!

I'll take it.

[Pirate Smile]

7. This is where I thought we would end up. It is the stick to use on the Insurance Co's.

[roguevalley]

85. oh great. another donut hole. so, we give the insurance companies

a buncha years to fuck us over and a boatload more people die and go bust because of it so we can have ONE, count them ONE idiot conscience-free republican on the bill. If she were decent, she would vote for it period. This is bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit.

For GODSAKE! VOTE THE DAMNED THING THROUGH WITHOUT THEM! LEAD, DAMNIT, LEAD!

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

88. You need a sedative. (nt)

[roguevalley]

110. really? you need a clue.

[Starry Messenger]

121. You ARE a sedative. n/t

[BlueDemKev]

102. You Think They Wouldn't if They Had the Votes?

I agree. The problem is, it doesn't appear we have enough votes in both the House and Senate to pass it in its current form. That is why the White House is negotiating a scaled-back bill. It sucks, but it's just a political reality.

[Joe Bacon]

47. NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

We saw how effective a trigger was when the Pill Bill passed. It had a trigger. Was the trigger activated? Nope?

NO MORE BULLSHIT. NO PUBLIC OPTION, NO BILL!

[BlueDemKev]

49. Consider this....

Joe, I agree with you but the truth is we can't have everything we want. The national debt is already 40% of our nation's GDP and forecasted to be almost 70% of the GDP by 2019. We are doing our best to keep the public option in the bill, but governing is about choosing, and there are times we have to take what we can get. If we pass nothing, we will be whitewashed in the midterm elections.

[CreekDog]

50. but the public option saves money

if you are concerned about the cost, leaving the public option out costs us more.

[BlueDemKev]

51. Do You Know That For A Fact?

Certainly it cannot be cheap for the government to set up and operate a health insurance institution along with a national exchange program. Throw in the subsidies for people who can't afford to buy their own health insurance under an individual mandate, I think we're talking over a trillion dollars here.

I'm all in favor of the above, but unfortunately it won't be sustainable considering how much we already owe (the national debt + interest).

[CreekDog]

64. The CBO says its cheaper than not having a public option

and when you consider that a recent study showed overhead among private insurers at 49%, while with Medicare it's more like 5%.

and if you are saying, "yeah, but with Medicare the government is paying, with private insurance people or businesses are paying."

no, no, no.

first businesses deduct the costs of insurance for their employees

second, Medicare charges premiums to its enrollees --adding younger ones means that the government will collect a greater share of health expenses for those enrollees than they would for the typical current enrollee (who is older).

third, to get universal coverage, the government is going to have to require people be covered and since those without insurance often have limited means, the government will subsidize them. subsidizing private insurance is more expensive (think 49% overhead) than subsidies to cover a young Medicare enrollee.

fourth, you forget that we are already paying for a lot of expensive medical care that could be procured at far, far cheaper Medicare rates if only we could get these uninsured people into a program where the medical providers agreed to accept lower rates of reimbursement for care. Currently, if you are uninsured, your care gets no discounts for being in a group health plan, no discounts for being in Medicare or Medicaid and that means that you probably can't pay --thus that unpaid expense is currently absorbed by the currently insured making our coverage more expensive.

fifth, the high overhead in private insurance makes our private care vastly more expensive than our government procured care and the sin of that is that much of the overhead goes to shareholders or insurance company staff who earn money not by providing services, but by DENYING them. With no public plan, much more government subsidy would go to that sort of thing.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

91. The CBO has already reported that a *ROBUST* public option will save billions

over 10 years and in the long run...

[Joe Bacon]

60. A bill WITHOUT a Public Option IS NOTHING!

We can pour a trillion dollars down the fucking toilet in Iraq and who complains about the debt?

NOBODY!

Tell you what, pull the plug on Iraq and Afghanistan and cut the defense budget by 50% and that will more than cover the cost for health care.

What Max Baucus is writing without a Public Option is BILLSHIT! It does NOTHING to relieve the problems caused by the fucking racketeers running the health insurance rackets.

If the Spineless Democrats pass this BILLSHIT, they are going to get their asses deservedly kicked and we'll have Speaker Boehner, Majority Leader Mc Connell in 2010 and in 2012 Obama will lose to any Republican.

WHY IS IT THAT THIS DEFICIT BULLSHIT ONLY POPS UP WHEN DEMOCRATS ARE IN THE WHITE HOUSE?

[BlueDemKev]

67. Let's Just Calm Down....

Joe, I appreciate what you're saying as we all know good and well the Republicans spend our tax dollars just as much as Democrats do. Iraq was a horrible and tragic mistake; I was against that war from the beginning. However, fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan is essential if we are to prevent further terrorist attacks on our homeland. The Taliban is bent on America's destruction and harbored al-Queda leaders throughout the 5 years they ruled Afghanistan. We simply cannot let those fanatics regain power over there.

Nevertheless, reforming such a large amount of the nation's GDP in one swoop just isn't going to go over with most Americans. We learned this back in 1994, and now it's been reaffirmed. Reforming health care will have to be done incrementally, adding some new changes every year. Obama got in over his head with this health care reform thing, and we need to cut our losses, take what we can get for now and go from there. Anything which passes Congress will be a huge first step towards health care reform.

Keep the faith.

[Mystayya]

71. Do you have healthcare?

Can you go to the doctor? Maybe if you couldn't you would understand the fucking urgency for 50 million of us.

[BlueDemKev]

72. I Understand....

Believe me, I understand your pain. Yes, I currently have health insurance thru my job but, like everyone else, I'm one layoff away from losing it. I have been without insurance, have been on COBRA, and I even once worked as a temp in a COBRA call center helping distraught people who had lost their jobs and were having problems with their continuing coverage.

Unfortunately, America does not protect its citizens with national health insurance, and the American people have made it clear they don't want the system reformed all at once. That is really a sad reflection on our country's values. However, if we give the reigns of power back to the conservatives, we will never, ever get anything changed and the situation for people like you and me will only get worse.

For now, you may want to consider investing an individual-type health insurance plan for yourself so you can at least go to the doctor and/or obtain prescriptions as necessary. Or, you can always go to a walk-in clinic and see an internist for a reasonable fee. As the economy improves, you will probably be able to find a full-time job with a company that provides a decent group plan for their employees.

Praying for you, buddy. Keep the faith--things will get better.

[Mystayya]

75. Yes I will invest the non- existant money I have at the end of the month....

Sigh.

The only thing I can afford are the ones with such a big deductible that I might as well not have it. Pre-existing conditions, etc make it pretty tough. I just go along with untreated depression and anxiety and hope that I don't come down with anything to bad. I can always go to the er if it is life or death. At this point I wish I had NEVER, EVER believed that we were finally going to get healthcare passed. So sick of getting my hopes up just to be told once again that the Corporations and The Pukes are the ones who are REALLY in charge. I get more bitter and cynical by the day and I am not alone in that.

Fortunately my children are covered under their father (he is a teamster) and the co-pays are not to bad.

[Joe Bacon]

76. Understand my pain? NO YOU DON'T!

My mother was crippled in an auto accident when she was 55. First, the auto insurance screwed us, then our health insurance SCREW CROSS finished the job.

Those racketeers did what they do best. Delay. Delay. Delay. then Deny. Deny. Deny.

Mom was a homemaker, she never paid into Social Security so she got no disability benefits.

Dad made too much for SSI or Medicaid.

The beancounters made sure that Mom got as little help as possible. I wound up busting my IRA to pay for care she needed before she turned 65. It paid what the fucking beancounters wouldn't until the money ran out.

Dad wound up borrowing on credit cards. 10 of them to pay bills. Then a predatory lender swooped in and Dad signed off on a mortgage. Then a second mortgage. The debt kept growing and growing, reducing him to the point that he would pray to God to win the lotto.

Bottom line, when they died, the house was lost. The fucking beancounters got a nice big fat bonus check for all the care Mom was denied.

Me, I got wiped out. No savings. No home. No car. No family and now I have diabetes. Why should I save any money when I know that when Diabetes beats me, Bill Mc Guire will swoop down with his vacuum cleaner and suck my wallet dry.

You tell me we have to have incremental reform. I have heard that bullshit since I went to a doctors office in 1962 and heard that god-damned Ronald Reagan record warning about Medicare.

In 1974, I busted my ass working for the Kennedy-Griffin Single Payer bill. I could even swallow it when Kennedy compromised with Wilbur Mills to try to get it through, and it almost passed until Watergate killed it.

In 1993-94, I worked to support Hillary's proposal only to see Andrew Sullivan put it in the coffin and Harry and Louise pounded the nails in.

In 1994, I worked for California's Prop 104 which would have established single payer. Went door to door begging for votes while the pimps running the health insurance rackets poured millions of dollars taken from premiums to kill it.

Twice we have passed single payer thru the California legislature, only to have Arnold veto it, using the same bullshit about going slow.

Obama already compromised when he took single payer off the table.

I WILL COMPROMISE NO MORE.

THIS IS THE LINE IN THE SAND.

I am tired of hearing a bunch of hot air about going slow. The fucking pimps have ruined my life. How many more lives will be ruined by going slow? Tell me Blue Dog, how many more people have to die or have their lives ruined while you tell me to go slow? 5 million? 10 million? 20 million? How many more lives have to be ruined because of the greed of the McGuires?

Give me a number.

I WILL COMPROMISE NO MORE.

[Mystayya]

78. I am right there with you

And it devastates me to see so many fellow Dems content to throw it all away and lap up the scraps throw while pretending it is some fucking gourmet meal.

[BzaDem]

79. It is ironic that given your situation, you would happily consign millions to the same situation

if you don't get a public option.

[IndianaGreen]

82. -1 unrec your post

Total bullshit on your part!

[Joe Bacon]

83. So tell me how toothless health insurance reform will work!

The Baucus Bill allows insurance racketeers to pocket 35¢ of every premium dollar

The Baucus Bill allows a 5 times premium differential for higher risk people

It mandates you to buy a policy, and by golly, if your income is low enough, you'll get a subsidy to pay your tribute to Mc Guire and his fellow extortionists.

and you have NOTHING to fall back on to compete with them.

Max Baucus was stupid enough to trade away an orchard and the Republicans gave him a single rotten apple in return which he worships in the name of bipartisanship.

That's not change we can believe in!

[IndianaGreen]

80. +1 rec

Excellent post! These people that care more about their investment portfolios never get it!

[BlueDemKev]

87. *Sigh*

So sorry about your mother. That is so sad. :-(

I wish most Americans felt the way you and I do about this. Unfortunately, they don't which is why we keep losing battles to reform the health care system.

Pardon my ignorance on this, but isn't disability insurance offered by private insurance companies (like State Farm) for a relatively small fee?

[Joe Bacon]

103. DREAM ON!

I have a preexisting condition (diabetes) The cheapest disability insurance I can get, golly, it only costs $180 a month--cause I got that preexisting condition, i got to pay more. What could be more American than that, I ask you??? And its got a 120 day waiting period and pays benefits for 8 months after the waiting period up to $1,000 a month, of course they can reduce that if I get any benefits from anyone else. I have 1,100 sick hours banked at work. So under that policy they would not pay me anything while I cashed the sick leave. Thus, they will cheat me out of at least 2 months of benefit checks. The most they would pay is $6,000 instead of $8,000. Yet, they wouldn't reduce the premium. Wow, Blue Dem Kev, that's such a good deal for those motherfathers. But for me, it's another screwing in the wallet with no KY.

Wow, so I get to buy yet another insurance policy, have diabetic complications and these crooks based on their track record will once again, delay delay delay and deny deny deny while they steal $180 a month out of my pocket.

BULLSHIT! I'll save the money and just by a dollar lotto ticket. I got a feeling the lotto would be a better investment!

Oh by the way, Mom and Dad thought they had a disability rider in their Prudential life insurance. Oh, all it did was waive premiums. And Prudential screwed them on that too.

[BlueDemKev]

109. You are a Classic Living Example....

....as to why we should reform health insurance.

If more conservatives experienced a fraction of what you've gone thru, we'd have had universal health care long ago.

[Joe Bacon]

117. And you wouldn't be blocking the way

with this incremental crap

[treestar]

111. You can refuse to compromise, but then you won't get anything

in return for it, will you?

[Joe Bacon]

118. You're going to get nothing anyway!

A bill with no public option is toothless.

[avaistheone1]

97. Let's not calm down.

Millions of us are without insurance, and tens of thousands of Americans will die this year as a result.

I don't give a rip about the Taliban. They are not coming here and there will be no terrorist attacks on "the homeland". Quit the boogeyman talk. You sound like some hired hand blogger for the Pentagon.

Who says reform has to be incremental? What a joke. Reform has been incremental for the last 5o years and nothing much has been done except to screw the American consumer. The time is now. The Democrats will never have this much power again, and never have so many Americans been in need of health care. Open up Medicare for all. Everyone in. Nobody out.

[BlueDemKev]

100. Medicare for All

We can debate the war on terror on a different thread, but as far as Medicare for everyone, I would love that, but how the heck are we going to pay for it?

[BlueDemKev]

101. No Threat of Terror Attacks in U.S.?

"I don't give a rip about the Taliban. They are not coming here and there will be no terrorist attacks on the homeland"

Excuse me, but were you alive in Sept. 2001???????? :wtf:

This kind of talk is exactly why most people are afraid to embrace progressive values!

[Joe Bacon]

106. Hmm, see those pics of guys with the guns at Obama rallies?

We have our own domestic terrorists who are being encouraged by Fox News and Republicans like Inhoffe and Bachman. And we have Christian pastors praying for the death of the President.

Republican Christians are far more of a domestic danger than Bin Laden

[BlueDemKev]

107. Terrorism is Terrorism

ALL threats of terrorism should be taken seriously, foreign AND domestic. We have already been victims of both in the last 15 years.

[Mystayya]

70. Do you have healthcare?

[dflprincess]

74. We're not getting anything we want

and if he were that concerned about the debt he'd stop wasting money in Iraq and Afghanistan.

If they pass a bill that does nothing but protect the insurance companies they will be stomped in the midterms - and deserve it.

[BlueDemKev]

89. Look Again....

DFL, according to CNN, the deal being worked out with Sen. Snowe includes ending pre-existing condition exclusions. Isn't that something we want? I'm willing to take half or even a third of the pie than nothing at all. If the votes aren't there for the public option in both the Senate AND House, then we simply can't get right now.

There's been a lot of unknown the last month or so which has increased our frustrationI think we all need to wait and see what Obama says next week when he addresses Congress. Hopefully, things will be better defined then as to what exactly this bill may look like.

[Joe Bacon]

105. Not true

The Baucus bill that dear Olympia is working on will allow insurance companies to charge 5 times the standard rate for those with preexisting conditions.

So in fact that means people like me with diabetes WILL STILL GET SCREWED!

If the Democrats lay down and die again, I'm finished with them for good. It's time to take a page out of the Canadian playbook and find our Own Tommy Douglas to set up an American version of the New Democratic Party and force Single Payer on the state level. Hold the balance of power of the Congress and make the spineless wimpy Democrats pass single payer or lose their power.

[BlueDemKev]

108. This is NOT the Finance Committee Bill....

Joe,
What you are refering to is the so-called "bipartisan" bill that's being worked on in the Senate Finance Committee by the "Gang of Six."

It doesn't look like that bill is going to be finalized since 2 of the 3 Republicans (Grassley and Enzi) have indicated they are not interested in getting reform passed. Also, Baucus has said more than once in recent days that those negotiations will end if no agreement is reached by Sept. 15. So, one would assume the compromise being worked out between Obama and Snowe is going to be more progressive than the center-right bill which is stuck in the Finance Cmtee.

As I said, let's wait and see what the president says next week. There's a lot of stuff happening behind closed doors that we don't know about. It's part of the legislative process, and we have to let it work. Believe me, I am ready to fight tooth and nail for this, but I think we should be pragmatic and set goals which are achievable and won't alienate independent voters.

[Joe Bacon]

119. That IS the bill he wants

Obama traded away an orchard and he got a rotten apple in return. The Gang of Six bill is what Obama wanted all along. More welfare for the Bill McGuires. and everyone else gets screwed. And then wowee zowie, a trigger, every bit as strong as the one in the Pill Bill.

[BlueDemKev]

122. Why do you believe....

...that Obama wanted the "Gang of Six" bill all along? Cenk from The Young Turks feels the same way you do, and I don't understand the reasoning behind it.

It appears to me that Obama personally wants a single-payer system, but knows that would never pass Congress. And now, since he has figured out that his idea for a public option won't get enough votes to pass both the House & Senate, he's trying to get whatever he can.

[Joe Bacon]

123. He never said that in the campaign

He made it clear repeatedly that he does NOT support Single Payer. All through the campaign he made it clear that Bill Mc Guire and his pals were going to call the shots. Look at everything else he has done, which is to prop up the banks and auto companies. And Obama has not only ignored people like me, he's ignored gays and lesbians too, he's ignored the Unions by doing nothing for the Employee Free Choice Act.

He's just tossing us crumbs and thinking that we will still back him no matter what.

He's in for a very rude awakening when he forces the Gang of Six bill on people and they find out that it's just a figleaf that funnels more corporate welfare to Bill Mc Guire and his CEO pals.

The real shock is going to come in December when people see their premiums explode by another 20% and the pimps running the rackets reduce services even more. Then you will see a replay of 1991 when the Medicare Catastrophic Care was repealed.

Bottom line--Give up on National Health insurance and work for Single Payer on the state level.

[BlueDemKev]

125. State Level?

"Bottom line--Give up on National Health insurance and work for Single Payer on the state level."

Ummm.....I live in Georgia. Just yesterday our legislature yesterday passed a bill which would prohibit us from using the federal public option if it's created. :eyes:

Given that, I don't think our state lawmakers will be too enthusiastic about a statewide single-payer system.

[BlueDemKev]

48. I agree...I'll accept this

We have to be realistic....the Democrats bit off more than they could chew by trying to reform the entire health care system. Not that I'm against doing it, but....as we learned 15 years ago, trying to change 15%(?) of our GDP all at once is going to freak people out. These days, the enormous deficit alone will hamstring any new major goverment program . Obama and the Dems should have tried to take incremental steps towards getting everyone (or at least as many as possible) insurance coverage.

Nevertheless, we have gotten ourselves into a political hole and we need to pull ourselves out. We are facing the prospect of a humiliating defeat (and the possible end of Obama's presidency) if nothing passes. For this reason, I'm open to this idea of warning insurance companies to get their act together or there will be a public option down the road. Sometimes, we have to cut our losses for the overall good of the party.

However, it should be noted that, given the fact we're likely to lose seats in Congress next year (at best have a smaller majority), the new, more conservative Congress may not be willing to "pull the trigger" and implement a public option if the president finds it necessary.

We'll have to wait it out and see what happens.

[Joe Bacon]

62. Once again, A BILL WITH NO PUBLIC OPTION IS USELESS!

Max Baucus wants to ram ROMNEYCARE down our throats, forcing us to buy junk policies that won't cover shit.

The corporate beancounters will still be able to kill you so they can get their bonus checks.

The pimps running the insurance rackets will be able to pocket 35¢ out of every dollar they steal.

And wow, the poor will get a subsidy to buy a policy, er, pay the loansharks running the insurance rackets.

People will STILL lose their homes, their life savings, their dreams, to pay doctor bills that the beancounters deny.

That ISN'T HEALTH CARE REFORM!

IT'S FUCKING BULLSHIT!

[Better Believe It]

54. The trigger. Is it perfect? NO! Is it reform? NO! Will the trigger ever be pulled? HELL NO!

If adopted, A health care public option trigger will meet the same fate of the trigger mechanism included in Bush's so-called "drug prescription benefit" legislation.

It will never be pulled!



July 7, 2009

RAHM'S RATIONALIZATION.... The remarks may or may not still be operative, but when White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel told the Wall Street Journal the administration was open to a "trigger" provision on health care reform, he drew an odd parallel.

" noted that congressional Republicans crafted a similar trigger mechanism when they created a prescription-drug benefit for Medicare in 2003," the WSJ noted. "In that case, private competition has been judged sufficient and the public option has never gone into effect."

Ezra Klein raised a very good point in response.

In 2003, Republicans controlled the White House, the House of Representatives, and the U.S. Senate. As such, when they tried to pass their legislation adding a private prescription drug benefit to Medicare, they allowed a small concession to Democrats: a weak public plan that would be activated if certain conditions weren't met by private industry.

What Emanuel is saying here, however, is that in 2009, when Democrats control the White House, the House of Representatives, and the U.S. Senate -- and have larger margins than Republicans ever did in the latter two -- that they are interested in settling on the same policy compromise: a weak public plan that would be activated if certain conditions aren't met by private industry. That's a bit weird. Weren't elections supposed to have consequences?

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_07/018967.php

[BlueDemKev]

68. It can be pulled

You have a point, however it can be pulled down the road as we elect more progressives to Congress. But if we try to do too much too soon we will only suffer setbacks coming election time.

[Mystayya]

77. But it won't be. You know it and I know it.

Smoke and mirrors.

[BlueDemKev]

90. Yes, It Can...

....if we elect more progressives to Congress.

[Mystayya]

92. So another 10 years or so? Maybe 20?

Because the reality is that is very hard to get an incumbent out during a primary race. They don't fear us because they know they don't have to.

[BlueDemKev]

99. Work Cut Out

We have to do a better job of communicating with voters as to what progessive values are all about. For decades we have let our opponents define them for us.

[Better Believe It]

95. Of as a male private insurance industry lobbyist might say to you: "Yank this!"

A bit crude perhaps but true.

[Phx_Dem]

93. Ditto!

[grantcart]

104. a thousand times better than coops

And it will allow everyone who hates their insurance company to quit their coverage and help trigger the public option.

[drm604]

3. Please, I hope this isn't necessary.

A trigger? Years down the road? Sigh. :banghead:

[bluestateguy]

4. I'm only for a trigger if its like a guaranteed trigger

as in, the private insurance companies have 5 years to get their act together, prove to the people that they are so much better, and this public option is going into effect no matter what.

[grantcart]

6. The trigger may be a negotiating strategy allowing Snowe to cross the line

but shaming Democratic Senators into staying on board



Also please remember simply because a trigger is in the Senate bill it doesn't mean that it will be in the final bill.

[wryter2000]

22. Good point

because a trigger is in the Senate bill it doesn't mean that it will be in the final bill.

Looking at it that way, I'm a lot happier with it. If it got something with some kind of a private option out of the Senate, it could be useful.

An iron clad trigger that wasn't too far in the distance -- say a year -- could work. At this rate, we're going to be talking for another year, anyway. But 5 - 10 years? Hell no.

We all know the insurance companies aren't going to clean up their acts.

[mvd]

24. It's possible

What my concern is is avoiding the filibuster. If we can do that, an iron-clad public option could be negotiated in. I'll give Obama some time on this. Sometimes with him, things may look bad but are part of a strategy.

[grantcart]

44. Keep your eye on Snowe

If the Whitehouse gets her on board it will be absolutely impossible for any Senator to vote to sustain a filibuster - even if a couple vote against the bill.


Also if Snowe breaks with the Republican Caucus expect a couple others to follow.


There will be some highly publicized agreement that will give them credit for something - perhaps something that ensures that the bill is 'deficit neutral'. Also expect that a shitload of money is going to be spent in Maine.


People forget just how much power and money the President can bring when he wants to. Snowe has positioned herself to bring huge benefits to Maine (and a promise not to support any opponents). What can the Republican Caucus do for her. If they try and get ugly she can quit the caucus and walk across the aisle - she can have Leiberman's committee.


If she does announce then Conrad and others will have no room to manouver - on the filibuster.

[MarjorieG]

58. We had voluntary reforms in '93. Will these be super regulated and benchmarked?

Med D has an unused trigger, no?

[Joe Bacon]

63. She has said she does not support a Public Option

Waste of time dealing with her.

[mvd]

9. Yeah, I read there was a trigger proposed with Medicare Part D

But the insurance industry is never found to meet the criteria.

I would maybe talk about malpractice reform if you have to compromise, but a guaranteed public option is a must IMO.

[bluestateguy]

15. I thought the Medicare Part D bill had a pilot privatization plan for Medicare to start in '09

I think it was a little enticement for wavering conservatives who had to be arm twisted into voting for the bill, but I don't think anything ever came of it as a policy. I have not heard anything about it.

[mvd]

19. Haven't heard about that either

I know that it would not be supported now, luckily.

[drm604]

10. Even if they did eventually get their act together to prevent the triggering of this thing

they would hold off doing it until the last minute. Meanwhile we'll continue with increasing health care costs and all of the problems that go with that.

That's if they actually get their act together. More likely, they'll spend that 5 years looking for loopholes and trying to get Republicans back into power so that they can repeal the whole thing before it actually gets triggered.

Imagine the media blitz we have now, times 100, four years from now.

[quantass]

14. Well said Sir/Madam!! Well said.. nt

[mvd]

20. Exactly

:hi:

[Canuckistanian]

29. Yup.

Better to bite the bullet NOW rather than fall even further behind 5 years from now.

And who knows what kind of delay would be built into that "trigger".

That could hold off the public option for maybe 7 years.

Unacceptable.

[Cant trust em]

27. It will have to be some very definitive criteria.

Good faith efforts do not cut the mustard.

[debbierlus]

31. That ain't going to happen. This is just a game to make it look like reform without the reform

[grantcart]

5. This could be very significant

If Snowe were to publicly sign on it would make it difficult for Conrad et al to go to the right of her.

[joeycola]

8. Drats. One more thing the WH is willing to give up just to pass ANY bill!!!!

[quantass]

11. Hmm...dont like it since it leaves room for Abuse for several years UNTIL

in the final moments they shape up before the trigger takes affect....It would need to be a strong trigger that goes in affect IMMEDIATELY when the industry inevitably fails the marks (ie. profit 10-fold from the new insured and hiked prices).

This trigger is not necessary since you still ahve full control over congress and WH...i mean..wtf?

[Jennicut]

12. Come on Olympia..you know you want to.

[GrantDem]

13. Another BS compromise.

This is nothing but another loophole that the healthcare industry and their lawyers will find a way through.

[FrenchieCat]

16. If its a trigger to pass the bill out of committee and into reconciliation

I'm all for it.

Great strategy....but of course the ass scratchers are gonna call Obama out on this one too,
cause we all know Democratic Presidents aren't allowed any strategies, just tragedies.

[Clio the Leo]

28. that makes two of us nt

[yowzayowzayowza]

32. My thinking as well.

Waitin a coupla years for the trigger then a coupla more for implementation is right out.

[Name removed]

86. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kestrel91316]

17. So what will us working poor do for insurance BEFORE this fabled "trigger"

kicks in? Enquiring minds want to know.

Because I think we ALL know that for-profit insurance will continue to be FOR PROFIT and not for providing health care.

[FrenchieCat]

21. Check it out.......

What if this is a trigger proposal for just passing the bill out of the Senate Committee? That's where Snowe's direction and vote predicts the directions of the hold out blue dogs.

After that isn't it reconciliation time?

[tinrobot]

35. Excatly what I was thinking - reconcile it away.

[quantass]

18. Being Canadian when i hear things like this i say F'OFF to the screen but then i realize....

I'm Canadian and this has nothing to do with me...its funny how getting so involved in this debate you forget things. Glad to be Canadian and not have to worry on such things...It's really crazy that half the country doesnt have a clue how HUGELY beneficial it is to EVERYONE!

This trigger thing is BULLSHIT though....hate it

[wryter2000]

23. You're a DUer and can have an opinion

We get so used to things being gawd-awful here, sometimes even some progress looks good.

[northernlights]

25. no trigger...no bloody way

that would be the end to reform. It would never go into effect. There would be so many weasal-words, some new crisis to divert attention. No way.

Too much has already been compromised. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO.

They're just trying to wear everybody down. Don't go there. Just don't. We don't need any republicans. No triggers. Public Option now is the only acceptable compromise. Otherwise, it's not reform. It's a wink and a promise, and bend over cause you're screwed. x(

[progressoid]

26. Here a trigger, there a trigger, ever where a trigger trigger.

[Joe Bacon]

84. The last Trigger that worked was the one Roy Rogers rode on!

And we remember that Trigger got stuffed, too!

[kath]

30. This "trigger" stuff is BULLSHIT. We need REAL reform, and we need it NOW.

:banghead: :banghead:

:grr:

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

33. I don't know how Olympia Snowe gets up and looks in the mirror everyday

Maine is actually a pretty poor state with no great shakes of an economy to speak of - tourism, some military and that's about it.

[NYC Democrat]

34. I'm not to sure about this

While I do prefer a Trigger over Co-ops if we MUST compromise the trigger has to be structured correctly in a way that while it does give private insurance a chance to shape up it makes sure the window of opportunity is not to big and the companies have to improve greatly in coverage and cost control for the Trigger to not be triggered.

[pot luck]

36. I have a question.

If we were to pass the public option now, it wouldn’t go into effect until 2013 since they have to phase it in. So, if we pass a bill with this trigger, when will we finally get the public option? Ten? Fifteen? Twenty years down the road?

[polichick]

37. If insurers could be trusted to be fair, we wouldn't be here. The trigger...

...was pulled years ago.

[slipslidingaway]

43. + 100 n/t

[Becky72]

38. What's the source?

Politico says that CNN is reporting...

But who's CNN source? Another anonymous aide? Can't we the people get NAMES in these freaking stories? Are we to believe things just because a media outlet says they're true?

[SpartanDem]

39. Remember any talks with Snowe probably relates only to that committees bill

[Nipper1959]

40. The trigger

has been pulled millions of times with the health insurance industry holding the gun that is pointed at us. One more bullshit idea to help them stall and run out the clock.

[ProSense]

41. Snowe needs to come out in full support of a public option.

This report smells like unsourced BS.

[bvar22]

42. No. More. Excuses.

The Democrats OWN The White House.
The Democrats OWN The Senate.
The Democrats OWN The House.
The Democrats OWN overwhelming public support for REAL Reform.

Obama may "lure" a Republican with "triggers" that postpone REAL reform, but he WILL lose much more than he will gain.

No. More. BULLSHIT!

If The Democrats don't produce,
it is an open admission that Nader was right.

[TheKentuckian]

114. You are being very simple. We have a Senate where we cannot even have a single

vote fall off. The overwhelming majority can be 110% onboard but any defections, for any reason, kill it. Several in our caucus are probably to Snowe's right. I almost hope one day you are judged in a frame of reference that demands purity and perfection because you will fall woefully short.

Only a total moron demands the Democratic party to have 100% support on ANY FUCKING THING.

Grow up. You're being a fucking child. There is nothing you would remotely be interested in that would generate 100% Democratic support. You act like we have 100 Senators not 60 with Lieberman, Conrad, and friends.
What told you that we'd be able to push through liberal policies without strain or compromise with the cards we have to play in this deck? You're way to smart to believe what you are pushing. There is no way you expect truly progressive policy to successfully be passed with ZERO margin of error and failure to do so is anything like proof that the parties are the same.

Dude, you're not a child. You have some life experience and some dealings with group dynamics. Anything requiring 100% support even within our non-homogeneous party will be heavily compromised.

[bvar22]

116. I'm afraid I AM that simple.

You are making excuses for the inexcusable.

[DrToast]

45. So if we're not getting a public option, ca we have Wyden-Bennet now?

[jenmito]

46. K&R. I think this will get done WITH a public option in the end.

[ShadowLiberal]

52. That's a far better idea then anything the 6 person 'bipartisan' Baucus group will come up with

Seriously, we know that Baucus' compromise group will give us the worst most watered down health care bill possible, so there's no use trying to compromise there for votes. This is a far better idea to get votes we need, and to win the headlines.

[Better Believe It]

55. You're right. A cup of cat poo is a lot tastier than bowl of dog shit. What's your pleasure?

Thanks for inviting me over for dinner but I'll pass if you don't mind.

[FrenchieCat]

57. Ain't dog shit what you keep peddling on these boards,

cause that's what is smells like to me.

[Better Believe It]

59. Is that your way of saying you prefer cat poo .... Frenchie cat?

I suppose a cat would have a good nose for dog shit and cat poo.

You're still sniffing around posts looking for DU'ers to attack.

Has ShadowLiberal appointed you to respond on his/her behalf?

[FrenchieCat]

66. I rarely attack anyone......

and you are the last one on this board to tell others what to and what not to post, I would say.

[Better Believe It]

94. I never tell anyone what to post and I don't unrecommend posts.

But you do!

[Blasphemer]

53. A triggered public option would NEVER see the light of day... NEVER

Hopefully this is just a negotiating tactic because any bill with a trigger is nonsense. The insurance industry would largely be left intact after offering up a few symbolic "reforms" and the public option would be totally forgotten about in a few years. Meanwhile, they get millions of new customers and their profits continue to skyrocket.

[Better Believe It]

56. Just remember the bogus trigger in Bush's drug prescription benefit legislation

[IndianaGreen]

61. Frak her ass, and frak the endless appeasement of GOP and Blue Bitches

I stand in solidarity with my Union and with AFL-CIO, the only viable public option is Medicare for those that want it (and that's a compromise from Medicare for all).

[treestar]

112. They've been elected and they have power

That's all there is to it. All of this raging does the rager no good - do the best we can do and go from there - why scream about realities that can't be changed?

[IndianaGreen]

115. What this country needs is an American version of the Bolivarian Revolution

Give the people power to rule their own destiny!

[jeanmarc]

65. There are some other reforms that should be likely as well

The preexisting condition denial is absolute bullshit. I actually saw an ad by a group representing the insurance companies suggesting to get rid of preexisting condition denial. Which is kind of laughable as they could do this right now.

Passing interstate availability is good, but I wonder how effective it would be. I mean, would my company be changing our healthcare policy every year?

Of course a public option is needed. I don't like this trigger garbage. And I'm kind of sick of these 'moderate' Republicans like Snowe having so much power. We need to run good candidates against them and make the Republican party a purely Southern party.

The trigger would have language allowing for a delay for any of these insurance companies and it will be no fun to police them. This is no way to write legislation as we could pass something, but it would be a hollow victory because the insurance companies are not going to have to change much. There will be backlash and probably some lawsuits by big insurance just to delay the public option when they don't do a thing to control premiums.

[Mystayya]

69. So we get fucked over by a "trigger" that will never end up happening

And in the end the assholes with full public healthcare in DC will make the rest of us by shit coverage we can't afford so yet more CEO douchebags can buy more private planes and vacation homes. Yeah fucking great.

SIGH

So much for the hope of dental repairs before more teeth break off at the gumline. I hope Obama will refuse to sign anything that fucking stupid. Sorry, don't mean to be a downer, I am just really stressed out and tired of having my hopes brought up just to be dashed again like some sick game.

[dflprincess]

73. "What profit a man if he gain a Snowe but lose the left wing of his party?"

Didn't Shakespeare ask that question?

[Lex]

81. yes

or if he were alive today, he might ask it

[treestar]

113. He can't

We don't have a parliamentary system.

It does no good to join a fringe party - just makes us irrelevant and out of the debate.

The left has no where else to go (except to court Repuke victory) and Obama is not dumb.

We'd have the public option or even single payer if people would elect liberals instead of Blue Dogs and Republicans. Or Kucinich might be President.

[kjackson227]

96. Personally, I'm not so sure that I like this "trigger" mechanism...

sounds like a "stall" tactic to me.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

98. What a lurid title for the article (no doubt the intention)

The use of the word "luring" makes Obama seem creepy or something. Does it strike anybody else as wierd? :eyes:

[ipaint]

120. Until the comfortable, educated "progressives" with insurance

decide that the least of us deserve what they get and decide to fight for it for all of us there will be no reform. Just an acceptable, barely disguised ins. industry scam that works temporarily for the almighty "I".
All the wealthy ever have to do is tell the comfortable middle class, regardless of party, that they will allow them to save a few bucks on insurance premiums and the dirty deal will be made. In the meantime a fortune in working class taxes will be used to further enrich the wealthy and widen the gulf between rich and poor in this country.

We all know that the ins. industry will not abide by any law or regulation that cuts into their profit margin. So whatever mandated deal the educated, comfortable and oh so superior middle class signs us all up for it is guaranteed millions will have no access to care, hundreds of thousands will suffer and or die and the ins. companies will increase their strangle hold on the government and our very lives.

I hope the settle for less rate cut your all salivating over that will be paid for in the health and lives of millions of the working class and working poor will be worth it for you.

Know this, all of our children and grandchildren will pay dearly for the comfortable class's inability to grow a spine and stand behind the working class and working poor today and demand we all are worthy of access to care. Every single one of us.

Trigger option, how apropos, especially for those of us who may have to contemplate ending our lives prematurely as a result of living in the reality that is 19th century health care.

[MadHound]

124. It's simply amazing how little Democrats are willing to settle for

Instead of having meaningful health care reform, the Dems are going to do token insurance reform while kicking the can of health care reform right on down the road and millions of people into the sewer.

Hey, it's change, just not really for the better.
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