Where are the pro-healthcare reform powerful business interests?

[Silent3]

Wouldn't many businesses stand to save a whole lot of money compared to what they're currently paying for employee health care costs if we had a strong public option, or better, a single payer system? Wouldn't many businesses become much more internationally competitive with products and services from countries that have socialized medicine?

Even in a corrupt political process where business interests too often carry more weight than voters, why is it that we're mostly seeing only the influence of insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies and the like?

[Vincardog]

1. Probably because the investor class wants to keep using Health Care to keep us in control

[Silent3]

5. I don't subscribe to the notion...

...that there's a single unified "investor class" with unified goals, marching in lock step, all pursuing exactly the same agenda.

[Vincardog]

6. Their only unified goal is everything for them that is their agenda

[Silent3]

7. "They" aren't living in a commune where "they"...

...share "everything". "They" are composed of individuals, many of whom are fiercely competitive with each other, many of whom have very different opinions about what will get them, individually and collectively, "more".

[Vincardog]

9. Ever heard of the Bilderberg Group?

[Silent3]

12. Yes, a favorite of Grand Conspiricists everywhere.

Do you have proof that all people who attend Bilderberg meetings reach unanimous consensus on everything they discuss, or that those who disagree with the Bilderberg majority nevertheless, acting on deep fealty to The Group, act in hive-mind like unison regardless of their personal feelings?

[Vincardog]

14. Where do you get this "resistance is futile" Borg group mind from any of my posts?

You are calling for "unanimous consensus on everything they discuss" and that they "act in hive-mind like unison regardless of their personal feelings".

That is a whole lot different than believing that the under classes were put here to serve them.

Don't you believe that the spoiled idle rich like GW believe
they are rich because GAWD loves them best?

[Silent3]

17. That excessive sense of entitlement...

...and feeling of class superiority is not alone enough to explain what's happening in this country with health care. In fact, since many of the rich and powerful come from all over the world and do business globally, how did so many other modern industrial nations apart from the US end up with their single-payer systems in the face of what would have be, the way you describe things, global opposition by the privileged class?

Further, if you're among those who look down your nose at your employees, wouldn't you want to spend as little as possible on health care for them? Wouldn't a government-run health care program that reduces the money you waste on the peons appeal to you?

I think the idea that this is conservative ideology run amok that I got from reading zeos3's post, not a conspiracy of Bilderbergers, makes a lot more sense.

[zeos3]

18. Allow me to be of NO help to this conversation.

The health care issue is a perfect example of taking a step back to look at the big picture and saying "Huh?!?"

It would make sense for those who look down on their employees to want to spend as little as possible on their employees, as you said. It also makes good fiscal sense for a company that wants to "do the right thing." In the end, we have most major employers saying "no" to a single payer plan or some type of public option.

Which leads us to the conclusion of "Huh?!?"

For evidence that this is a symptom of conservative ideology run amok, look no further than the Palins or the Jindals of the republican party. They've reached the point where they elect sock puppets that must stay on script so as not to be exposed for the empty shells they are. Having said that, I do believe there is a grand conspiracy that they are all a part of and that plan is, as you've said above, "I want more for ME!"

I'm glad to have been able to come down firmly in the middle between ideology run amok and grand conspiracy.



:hi:

[Vincardog]

19. Thanks you

[zeos3]

15. They don't live in a commune but they do present a unified front

when they support or oppose a particular issue, even if some of its members would benefit by doing the opposite.

The K Street Project merged the interests of business with the republican party and they now march in lockstep.

I already quoted from Jonathan Chait's book "The Big Con" lower in this thread, here is some more about the K Street Project:

"(Tom) DeLay kept a book detailing how much major corporations had donated to each party and divided them into 'friendly' and 'unfriendly' columns. He made a practice of calling lobbyists into his office, opening the book, and showing them where they stood. 'If you want to play in our revolution,' he famously declared, 'you have to live by our rules.'"
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,983847-2,00.html


"As part of this broad effort to discipline K Street, Republicans have demanded that business lobbies unite behind whatever collective decision the party makes, despite any qualms they may harbor."



Here is an excerpt from a memo issued by Nuclear Energy Institute lobbyist Wayne Valis about building a coalition to support W's 2001 energy bill. The memo was leaked to the Washington Post's Michael Grunwald.

"To join the coalition, you must agree to support the Bush energy proposal in its entirety and not to lobby for changes to the bill. Should the bill change, you must support the changes in the legislation or drop out of the coalition. If you are caught attempting to lobby behind the back of the White House, you will be expelled from the coalition. I have been advised that this White House 'will have a long memory.'"

[sandnsea]

2. All business opposes reform

I haven't seen anything supportive on a public option come out of the Chamber of Commerce or the Small Business groups.

[Captain Hilts]

3. Yes! Small business groups do often support HCR. I was reading about that yesterday. nt

[sandnsea]

4. So post a link

to small business supporting public option or single payer.

[Hippo_Tron]

8. I couldn't tell you, but...

The fact that they are is, IMO, part of the reason that American businesses are having trouble competing with other countries.

[high density]

10. I'm baffled by this as well

I do not know any businesses outside of the health care/insurance industry that like the idea of these employee health benefit costs that double every ten years. So far I think we've only heard from the Whole Foods CEO and we saw how that came out after he chose his position poorly. Perhaps other bigwigs simply don't want to stir up this dust, pro or con, on the healthcare issue.

[zeos3]

11. It's in all businesses best interest to support health care reform, but...

according to Jonathan Chait, in his book The Big Con, this goes back to when Clinton tried to pass health care reform and the republicans started their K Street Project.

From the book: "Business not only reconciled itself to reform but for the most part actively favored it, since skyrocketing health care costs were, after all, eating away at profit margins. At the outset of Clinton's first term, the giants of the business lobby - the Chamber of Commerce, the Business Roundtable, and the National Association of Manufacturers - all favored universal health care."

"In due time, however, business turned sharply against this reform - but not because its interests were under attack. It did so because conservatives demanded it. Republicans, for both partisan and ideological reasons, wanted to kill health care reform and were enraged at business's conciliatory posture. The conservative activist Grover Norquist began convening a weekly meeting of business lobbyists opposed to health care (mostly representing small businesses, which for the most part did not insure their workers and did not want to start) along with conservative groups like the National Rifle Association and right-leaning pundits. These strategy sessions produced, among other things, a concerted effort to pressure business lobbies to withdraw their support for reform. The conservatives denounced groups like the Chamber of Commerce as a sellout to big government and disseminated their attacks through talk radio, taped television spots, and Wall Street Journal editorials. Congressional Republicans boycotted a Chamber awards ceremony and threatened to ignore Chamber lobbying on other issues. Under this pressure, the Chamber reversed itself, and corporate support for health care reform collapsed."

[Silent3]

13. Many here at DU tend to look at opposition to health care...

...reform completely as a battle between Monied Interests and The Common People. Certainly some business's profits and some politicians campaign funds play into the overall picture. Seen the way you describe this, however, it's more like the anti-reform crowd is primarily driven by blind, rabid ideology.

[zeos3]

16. I'd say it's a combination of both

Norquist is very good at assembling coalitions of rabid ideologues to do the bidding of the monied interests. There are times when the monied interests are at odds with each other but they present a united front and get get other concessions for the things they give up.

With the health care debate, you'd expect the insurance companies to be at odds with the pharmaceutical companies. Big Pharma wants to charge whatever it can for the drugs and the insurance companies don't want to pay for them. The solution is Medicare Part D or policies that exclude prescription coverage or a tiered drug benefit in the health policies that passes more of the drugs' costs to the consumer. Both industries are satisfied and the consumer gets screwed.

For years we were told that smoking was NOT bad for us but the insurance companies were allowed to charge smokers higher premiums. How does that make sense if smoking isn't bad for you? Once again, big business wins on both sides.