If Keith O is right about Obama capitulating, my heart just broke in two...

[Hekate]

Keith Olbermann, Lawrence O'Donnell, and Eugene Robinson virtually held a wake for meaningful health care reform. I'm still not ready to bury my hopes -- not until next week -- but I started crying and I won't be able to stop for awhile. I have never felt so low about Barack Obama.

My daughter will give birth to her second baby by C-section on December 21. She and her husband used to have insurance -- and now they don't. They are both self-employed and working like dogs...

My son is fully employed and and employer-based health insurance. Good thing, because he was diagnosed with complex partial seizures 2 months ago and is still in the evaluation and let's-see-how-this-drug works stage. Of course he lost his driver's license the moment he entered the ER...

I endured a town hall meeting with my Congresswoman last night. It was very well run -- and there were city police at every door, thank you -- but I couldn't write about it then because by the time I got home I had not eaten in nearly 9 hours and my blood sugar had crashed pretty badly, possibly a side effect of some new med I am on.

The worst part of it all was the stress of sitting nearly surrounded by the people who came ready to hate every word our Congresswoman had to say. They may have made up as much as 25% of the crowd, and their aura was phenomenally hateful and draining. Christ, doesn't it ever hurt to be that stupid?

Dammitalltohell. :cry:

Hekate

[villager]

1. with some 'bot automatically un-recing this hearfelt testimonial

the knee-jerk reaction of the Obama apologists has hit a new low...

Thanks for posting, Hekate!

[elocs]

69. People need to stop obsessing about UnRecs early in a thread.

As I write this there are now 110 votes, so apparently this thread is doing quite OK. If anyone believes that trolls are giving the UnRecs, then stop giving them attention by pointing it out.

[caseymoz]

113. Actually, I found it is too easy to hit the unrec button here.

If you're really anxious to rec a thread, you could horrify yourself by hitting the unrec instead.

In other words, you can't assume, and please don't distract the discussion into complaints about unrecs.

[jdlh8894]

121. What is all the fuss -

Over recs and un-recs? Will somebody please explain? What is the importance?

[katty]

123. yes, what is this holier than thou "un rec" thing?-it's childish

[Butch350]

136. Oh Please whose BOT are you?

[Hekate]

2. Oh great. Someone unrecced this. I've been one of Obama's strongest supporters here for years...

... in case that's what got your goat.

H

[villager]

6. My goat was the unfathomable un-rec! I certainly suported Obama last fall

...but have been rather consistently disappointed since.

I'd love for that guy with the powerful rhetoric on the campaign trail to bear some resemblance to the guy in the Oval Office.

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

66. What?

We take contributions from thousands of people $5.00 at a time?

These same people working 2 or 3 jobs without healthcare believing in Hope And Change?

Words have meaning? Rhetoric.

[truedelphi]

115. He got this low income households' small change while we

Waited for Hope.

Hope is just a sad homeless person waiting at the farthest end of the soup line, thinking maybe there might be crumbs left when it is their turn to finally be served. But edged out by the well to do who have crashed the party, and are making off with even the silverware!

[AllyCat]

96. Wish I could rec your reply

[joeycola]

112. yes, I would love to see this also..........

"I'd love for that guy with the powerful rhetoric on the campaign trail to bear some resemblance to the guy in the Oval Office."

[roguevalley]

146. I lost the love of half my family over this man, giving him money

I didn't have because he promised he would remember us when he got there. this is so hurtful, I have stopped watching the news.

[BlueCaliDem]

21. It's okay. I rec your post, countering the easily disappointed one's. eom

[dionysus]

89. it's plus 142, including +1 from me. i don't understand why ppl flip out over that silly feature.

:shrug:

[bobbolink]

119. When I see an unrec for a thread I think is fine, I'm promted to REC

right away! I think it is mean, and an uncalled for feature.

So, you got a rec from someone who probably would have forgotten it otherwise.

Thank you for attending a Town Hall when you had so much going on in yer own life..... good on ya!

I'm very disappointed with Obama, and unhappy with him, but as long as his supporters are pleasant, I don't harbor any ill will at all. It's the name-calling that gets to me!

Thanks for your post!

[AsahinaKimi]

137. I got yer back!

K&R

[spartan61]

3. I don't usually wish ill health on anyone,

but after watching that crowd belittling that woman in a wheelchair at a town hall meeting, my blood pressure went sky high. Do they not think it could happen to them as well? Let them walk in that woman's shoes. I'm sure their attitudes would change.

[MadMaddie]

20. I felt the same way

But I suspect that many in the crowd have sufferred or their family members have sufferred from the cruelty of healthcare cost and they don't care.

They don't want anything proposed by a "Black Man"! I believe it is that simple.

[John Q. Citizen]

95. I agree. They lost and now they are pissed off. It's not about health care.

[Historic NY]

144. ding ding ding...we have winner!

[BlueCaliDem]

22. I wished a helluva lot more on that neanderthal than mere "ill health". eom

[snake in the grass]

64. I must interject here.

Contrary to popular belief, the Neanderthals were highly developed. They were tool makers and artists. They buried their dead in ritual ceremonies. It is an offense committed upon them that we compare them to Pukes. The Pukes are more like lesser hominids. Evolution simply hasn't caught up with them yet.

[BlueCaliDem]

105. You are justifiably correct here. I stand corrected. ;-) eom

[Enthusiast]

76. Spartan61,

"Do they not think it could happen to them as well?"

They don't 'think' at all. They receive their thoughts from the RW propaganda machine.

[jumptheshadow]

4. I hear you, Hekate

There is something massively wrong here.

[grantcart]

5. this is a war and we have just started fighting send a message to the WH

http://www.whitehouse.gov/CONTACT/

[dave29]

16. message sent.

thank you.

[Hekate]

30. Thanks. Action is good. nt

[Mithreal]

55. Phoned WH today and talked to a very nice volunteer.

She asked me to keep faith.

Trying.

[windbreeze]

61. done...n/t

[mod mom]

79. done-for the umteenth time!

[krkaufman]

85. Thanks for the link, gc; message sent. n/t

[NikolaC]

97. Done

I asked that they stick with a strong public option, at the very least, though I would prefer single payer. We will see how everything shakes out in a week and I am still helding out a little bit of hope that the Olberman and Politico reports will be wrong.

[bongbong]

101. My message

Thanks for the contact link. Here is what I wrote:

I was an Obama volunteer; I did one day of canvassing and one day of GOTV.

Please don't give up on public healthcare. Cite the polls showing a big majority of Americans want it. And put the public option in. Once you get past this hurdle, other things will come too. But if you lose on this, or let Big Pharma/Big Healthcare make your decision for you, you will be perceived as a "loser" and other projects you want to accomplish before 2016 will get very tough.

Be strong!

[BlancheSplanchnik]

118. Done.

thank you for the nudge and link. Always so helpful to not have to go searching for e-addresses.

[The Wielding Truth]

131. Sent another letter to the Whitehouse. Thanks for the link.

[roguevalley]

147. I sent one and I will call them Monday:

202-456-1111 messages
202-456-1414 switchboard.

flood them

[Tarheel_Dem]

165. Thank you for the contact info. (nt)

[ProSense]

7. Keith Olbermann is responding to rumor and part of what he said made no sense

Keith made no sense on the laundry list of things the WH was going to drop, and here's the clue:
credits for small businesses.

That along with everything else he listed would mean that the WH is giving up on reform.

The media, including Olbermann, is making no sense.

When are they going to explain what is driving the WH to scrap a public option when every Democratic Senator supports it either with a trigger or without one (the majority)?

[ruggerson]

9. a trigger is not a public option

it's a trigger.

[ProSense]

10. What? n/t

[jgraz]

50. A TRIGGER IS NOT A PUBLIC OPTION

Are you hard of reading?

[TankLV]

83. naw - prosense just sees what he wants to - just like the town hall idiots...

he "believes" and no FACTS will intrude on his dreams...

[truedelphi]

116. This is part of what is so sad for me

Just as I watched trusted Republican friends believe that the "Mission was Accompalished!" and that the "Surge is working!", now I see Democrats who look at the ether and see vapor and support that vapor as some type of reality.

And they defend and defend, on and on, but why?

First Geithner/Bernanke give away eleven trillion bucks which we will pay back for a lifetime. With only the rich sitting behind the stock market bubble and benefitting. Now the waffling and non-leadershiop by Obama on health care.

[Inuca]

12. He also mentioned

pre-existing conditions. At which point my jaw dropped. I never heard/read this anywhere else. I hope it was all just part of somewhat manufactured righteous indignation.

[ProSense]

15. It was like satire. n/t

[Connie_Corleone]

24. Yeah, I heard him mention that and I was like, "WTF??"

He was talking about something Max Baucus was proposing but he basically made it seem like Obama was for dropping pre-existing conditions from the bill.

Olbermann jumped the shark on that one.

[roguevalley]

148. no he didn't. he said everyone has to be good little soldiers now.

pound Anthony Weiner's office and give him support. Give the others who are with us support.

[Connie_Corleone]

153. I was talking about something that happened on Thursday.

[roguevalley]

162. ah. hugs, connie.

[chimpymustgo]

14. No, YOU are not making sense. WH people are TELLING the media PO is OVER.

At this point, really, what are you hanging onto? Get real. And sign this:


http://pol.moveon.org/hcobama/index.html

[ProSense]

18. No, unlike you, I'm not panicking at every ludicrous media report.

MoveOn has been doing that, rightfully, for the duration. They're allowed.

[AsahinaKimi]

138. i signed it

Thanks

[jbfam4]

149. Thanks

I did and sent it on to others that will sign it also.

[AzNick]

59. Again: everybody is saying something different

None of this makes sense.

Wait for next week, he will be back from vacations and ready to push this.

[quakerboy]

63. You nailed the problem, though you don't even see it

If the things rumored are true, then the president has given up on reform. And that is the heart of the problem and the concern. Has the president given up on us? I personally fear it, because it is what politicians do. We will only really KNOW after a bill passes or doesn't. And even then, many of us will likely be left with some level of ambiguity, given that whatever passes will probably be some sort of compromise with lots of questions left to those of us not intimately involved in its creation.

It is my hope that there is a good reason for Olbermans reporting, namely to cause us to become reactive and give Obama the public support he needs to get a real public option passed. Because otherwise, he is needlessly freaking us out(possible) or we are truly about to get boned by our president.

[TankLV]

82. ahh - you showed up with your spew like clockwork - nice...

Keith SPEAKS the TRUTH and KNOWS WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT, unlike you...

[DevonRex]

8. How can your heart break in 2 over something that HASN'T HAPPENED YET?

[SemiCharmedQuark]

19. It's the worry...there is usually some truth when a story is reported

Usually.

I feel "broken hearted" too. I know that nothing is definite, but I'm really disappointed. I know what the realities of Congress are. But that public option was the light at the end of the tunnel for me. I can't help but be crushed at the thought that it might not be there.

[Bluerthanblue]

27. or self-fulfilling prophesy??? manipulation of the worst kind-

does the 'story' become true because it makes the news? or was it true to begin with.

I'm too jaded to believe the media on anything- even the best news.

I'll believe it when it happens. Until then we keep fighting.

:hi:

[Hekate]

28. Only because KO, despite his fulminations, is normally spot on. And because this has been a strain

I have been holding on to hope that Our Guy can pull a rabbit out of Uncle Sam's hat, and I have been supportive of Obama the entire time. "Wait and see, wait and see, it's not over till it's over, the MSM are helping the RW to spin this for all it's worth, we have no idea what's going on behind the scenes but clearly the Repubs want us to believe that Obama and the Dems have failed...." I have said all these things and more here at one time or another. And all the while the fights on DU (where I spend entirely too much of my time) are getting uglier and uglier. Oh, and don't forget the wingnuts have moved to the center of the Repub Party and keep calling for the assassination of Barack Obama.

In the meantime, my self-sufficient healthy adult children are potentially staring crippling health care bills in the face. The pre-existing conditions clause alone...

President Obama will give a big speech next Wednesday. But it won't mean much unless he speaks strongly for a public option and unless the Congressional Democrats of both Houses can get their shit together and all row in the same direction for once in their lives. The shock of three journalists I actually respect putting on sackcloth and ashes pushed me over the edge.

Hekate

[BlueCaliDem]

11. I know how you feel, but Pelosi came out

strong to reiterate that a bill with no public option will not pass the House. The Progressive Caucus has vowed not to support any bill without a public option.

I can't believe the Speaker would say such a thing without the President's backing. I really can't.

[Generator]

29. I am hoping the opposite

I am hoping someone is standing up to Obama if he has dropped all public options and that ass wipe-Rahm. Oh excuse me-I went off. If you want to blame health care-let's blame mr third way capitualtor in chief Rahm. Someone on DU claimed Rahm HATES Pelosi. Well, she is now my queen again. So without CONGRESS there is no health care. And congress has a Dem majority even if Obama hasn't noticed and can't get them in line. I am waiting for leadership again-from whoever brings it. Capitulating to Republicans that only want profit and don't care if Americans die or go bankrupt is NOT leadership. It's compromise with the devil that achieves nothing. I have had it.

[Dragonfli]

38. Rahm has been selling us out since day one - He champions Republicans

and Republican corporatist policies. He believes that wrapping GOP agendas in a "Centrist Democratic" Flag is all it will take to get us to vote against our own best interests just like the working class GOP idiots do.

He thinks we are all too stupid to see what lies beneath the false flag, luckily few are fooled by him, tragically President Obama and Senate democrats are among the few that have fallen for his falsely advertised "alternate republican wing".

Sadly, many of us that see right through him still voted against our best interests when we voted for Obama. I for one did not know I was really voting for Rahm and the blue dogs to rule as republicans when I voted for change. I will not make the same mistake again.

The centrists will kill the Democratic party again just like they did in the nineties.

I do not expect to see even one half of the support in the next few elections that the Democrats rallied in the last two elections. We didn't know we were voting for more republicans - now we do.

I hope the donations received from their corporate masters were worth it.

Just talking on the phone today with 6 friends I learned we are all in the same place. No more support and money for false flag republicans (I am sure there are many that I don't know that are also done being played, The number is probably quite high among those of us that barely make it from paycheck to paycheck.)

Perhaps someday the working/poor/middle class will have a party to represent them again and we will finally get a chance to vote our best interests. In the mean-time I just can't see the point in voting away any chance at health-care, safety nets, jobs and peace by voting for the policies of the two corporate parties (policies that work against us and thereby only hurt us.)

Why couldn't he just be like he advertised himself? He could have secured a people party rule for generations just by working for the movement that pushed to get him in. Universal health care, jobs brought back home, education and peace would have done good for the actual citizens and meant the end of the Fascists, instead they have morphed into Rahm like republicans and turned into what we have all been fighting against since Reagan.

[dotymed]

70. TO PUT OUR CONTRIBUTIONS IN PERSPECTIVE

Everyone should go to "bradblog.com' and watch the
"SIBEL EDMONDS" testimony. Just the money that the
Turkish govt. bribes these Senators with, makes our mass small
contributions, look like nothing. If only Americans would
watch this testimony, then (after the trials for bribery and
treason) they would see that our only hope is to have PUBLICLY
FINANCED ELECTIONS. That way the money from the powerful and
wealthy lobbying groups would not have near as much effect.
Until we do this, (PUBLICLY FINANCED ELECTIONS) Americans
stand no chance for real representation. We can't afford to
compete.

[xxqqqzme]

111. Agree completely.

People keep wondering what happened to that strong, forceful candidate and the brilliant campaign. Well that candidate was elected and chose a devoted DLCer to run his agenda. It's fallen apart since then

[inna]

157. +1. i wish i could recommend this individual post. nt

[Inuca]

13. I think he went way overboard

based on the info he has. But that's not the point. The point is :hug:.

[Hekate]

31. Thanks, I needed that. nt

[Autumn]

17. Don't stress over the MSM's spin

we still have hope.

[Hekate]

32. All right! nt

[Connie_Corleone]

23. Olbermann gets his "news" from Talking Points Memo.

I used to like TPM but for the past few months, they (not Josh Marshall) have been "reporting" a lot of rumors and spin. If I want to read rumor and spin, I'll read Huffington Post.

I'll continue to contact the White House and wait for Obama's speech Wednesday.

[Political Tiger]

25. Holding a wake before the patient is even dead.

If we'd stop feeling sorry for ourselves and start dealing with facts instead of emotions we might actually get something done.

[Hekate]

33. Yeah! I want to ask Keith O what the heck that was about? nt

[Bluerthanblue]

26. and Keith Olbermann is what exactly??? a person who makes his

living by being over-the top and his outspoken antics and rhetoric.

Sorry- and there are LOTS of people here who will be offended by my opinion of him- (I've laughed at some of his antics myself, and have found some of his statements to be pretty gutsy and profound sometimes- but he has no more power than people allow him to have (just like Limbaugh- i know that's a cruel comparison, but it's honest)

Many of us have a lot at stake over health care reform- particularly the public option- (i'm facing the prospect of early death.. giving up the fight, without the hope a public option could give me- not something i want to dwell on- but its what it is) i understand how important this struggle is.

Don't let KO's stand steal your belief that WE CAN change things. If it was easy, it wouldn't be an issue- Please try not to let the negative energy get you down.

If we give up, we've lost for sure. One thing to remember, the people who win, all have one thing in common,- they didn't quit- no matter how impossible things may have seemed, or how many people told them they were wasting their time.

:grouphug:

Don't quit Hekate- it isn't over yet. No matter what the Television would like you to think-

:hi:

[Hekate]

34. Now you're talkin'! Okay!

What was KO thinking anyway?

Hah.

Hekate

[BlancheSplanchnik]

120. [phone]

We don't have cable; I've never watched KO or any of the pundits, actually. Probably a good thing in terms of keeping my blood pressure down.

So I get my news and vid clips from here--but lately I've been kind of avoiding DU because of the freak out factor.

[Stardust]

35. I have never turned off KO, but tonite I had to. Then I come to DU

and discover what Keith was saying wasn't necessarily factual. Hmmmmmm...WTF going on???

[Hekate]

36. I'm with you. I'm glad I came here to unload, after all. Last night my Congresswoman promised...

... that no matter what, the "exclusion of pre-existing conditions" provision in private insurance plans would be gone. Tonight that was one of the things Olbermann et al. were saying was out the window. :wtf: indeed.

Hekate

[flyarm]

37. Mike Farrell Thanks Buckeye State blog and Ohio Daily Blog Health Care Reform Help

Mike Farrell Thanks Buckeye State blog and Ohio Daily Blog Health Care Reform Help
Mike Farrell Thanks Buckeye State blog and Ohio Daily Blog Health Care Reform Help

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aInpdhmnQXo&eurl=http%3A...


White House Admits the Public Option is Gone, Will Sistah Soulja the Left
By: Jane Hamsher
September 2, 2009

The White House cuts the public option loose in a trial balloon in Politico:

The White House is making the calculation that the hit they suffer when they drop the public plan is only with the "far left," that they can survive that and actually use it to their advantage by triangulating against "the blogs."

It's just a guess, but when average Americans understand that "health care reform" means they will be forced to pay Blue Cross more money than they do now for worse insurance or be fined 2.5% of their income, I have a feeling it's not just going to be a couple of radical lefties who are pissed off about what amounts to an increase in middle class taxes.

For us, the question becomes: what are we going to do? How much do we care, how hard are we going to push Democrats in the House, elected by solid Democratic majorities, to stand up to this railroading and defend the public option?

There are 55 members in D+10 districts who have not said that they will vote against any bill that does not have a strong public option. For me, sitting by and watching them help to bailout PhRMA and the insurance industry on the backs of the middle class, just when people are struggling to find decent jobs in the midst of a recession, is not an option.

We'll be looking into the campaign finance histories of these members, as well as their voting records, to try and ascertain if there are reasons they are not signing on that the public should know about.

http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/09/02/white-ho... /

[flyarm]

39. Obama won't push for public option

Obama won't push for public option
by John Aravosis
September 2, 2009


Considering it was the falling out with the liberal base that was the precursor to the public at large talking about whether the president has the backbone for the job, it's not entirely clear how picking a larger fight with that base is somehow going to resuscitate Obama's sinking poll numbers, and damaged brand:

On health care, Obama’s willingness to forgo the public option is sure to anger his party’s liberal base. But some administration officials welcome a showdown with liberal lawmakers if they argue they would rather have no health care law than an incremental one. The confrontation would allow Obama to show he is willing to stare down his own party to get things done.
The goal of health care reform is supposed to be to pass a good bill, not to lift Obama's numbers for the next election. The very fact that people in the White House see public anger at Obama's broken promises as an "opportunity" is a large part of the problem. It's also a large part of the reason a lot of people are wondering whether Barack Obama is any different than any other politician who promised one thing then did what was politically expedient.

It's simply amazing that the strategy of trashing the base has now plunged Obama to 49% in the polls, reinvigorated a near-dead Republican party, split the once-unified Democratic party, and put the President's number one policy agenda in peril, and yet some in the White House think it's worked so well, they need to ramp it up some more. They don't seem to realize that the debate isn't over some arcane provision of legislation, it's over whether the President has the character needed to lead our country. Every time Team Obama has picked a fight with the left, they've lost, and the public perception of the president's character has suffered as a result. Americans don't respect someone who betrays their friends.

If the President thinks trashing the very people who got him into office is going to save his presidency, it's going to be a very ugly next couple of months, and a rather ugly four years for the Democratic party.

http://www.americablog.com/2009/09/obama-wont-push-for-...

[BeyondGeography]

41. Aravosis...I'm having a McClurkinpalooza flashback

Color me unmoved by his concern.

[LiberalLovinLug]

122. Karl Rove got one thing right...don't piss on your base

Thats what the DLC and the party insiders that are steering right at every opportunity fail to understand.

"Every time Team Obama has picked a fight with the left, they've lost, and the public perception of the president's character has suffered as a result. Americans don't respect someone who betrays their friends."

Nothing could be truer. Most Dems wouldn't vote for Dubya, Most Republicans would. It was the soft center independents that were the prize. In Dubya they saw someone who had a belief system and never wavered. I still remember him chuckling and saying he doesn't listen to protesters after the largest anti-war protest in the history of the US happened just before the invasion. I was sickened by it at the time, but its one example of his dog eared determination to just push through and do what he thought was "right". More independent voters were swayed by that decisive looking behavior. Kerry in comparison was "I did this before I did that" etc... skirting around tough questions with long drawn out fillibusters. Anyways, not to say that Obama is comparable to Kerry in his speech making ability, but his handlers in the DLC are making the same mistakes. We KNOW that the DLC have in the past made comments about the left wing of the party being a problem for them. They think that by alienating and fighting with their core base it will magically bring the independent voter to them. NO it won't, people are not comfortable with a politician that turns their back on core principles, and with that their base, just to get elected.

BTW that link is dead, or the page is down anyways. Too bad I would have liked to read the whole blog entry by John Aravosis

[flyarm]

40. If Public Option Isn't Dead, Why Is David Axelrod Referring to Its "Spirit"?

If Public Option Isn't Dead, Why Is David Axelrod Referring to Its "Spirit"?
If Public Option Isn't Dead, Why Is Axelrod Referring to Its "Spirit"?
By Brian Beutler
September 2, 2009

The Obama administration is sending out its strongest signs yet that it's willing to scrap a public option in order to move a health care bill forward. White House adviser David Axelrod tells ABC News that what remains of Obama's desire for a public option is largely theoretical. "The spirit that led him to support a public option is still very much at play here and so you know he wants competition. He wants choice."

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/09/if-public-op...

[QC]

42. He just means that it's "spirited," as in "lively," n/t

[ProSense]

43. Because that how

media spin works

The gullible left strikes again.

[kid a]

44. I felt pretty good about Obama today. Was he at your town meeting?

[Kablooie]

45. Still all I hear is that the health care option is dying. Obama is not strong enough to fight.

He gives the impression of taking it too easy.
Relaxing and hoping that others solve the problem so he can endorse it.

I'm sure this isn't the case but it's the impression I get from the
world around me.

[Teaser]

48. so you get that impression...

remind me again why I care about your impressions?

[Kablooie]

49. Because I am very impressionable.

[TheBluestEye]

46. I don't believe that the Public Option is dead. I think that Obama will surprise us all. n/t

[RufusTFirefly]

108. And your basis for this belief is?

[Rosa Luxemburg]

47. The GOP stopped healthcare for all some years ago

and they are trying to stop people having healthcare now

[Lorien]

51. Please tell your story to all of your reps and the Whitehouse if you haven't

already. They need to hear it.

[akbacchus_BC]

52. My question is, how does Keith O know what the President is planning

for health care. Last I heard, KO is a reporter, not President's Obama health care adviser!

[Jennicut]

53. I love Keith but who knows what will happen, I can't figure it out.

Just waitin until Wednesday I guess....

[akbacchus_BC]

54. For all you doubting thomases, President obama will come through

with a proper health care for all Americans, including the 46 million who are currently disenfranchised. Just have some faith in him!

[Pangolin2]

94. So Congress isn't needed after all! What great news!

:silly:

[scentopine]

56. Family member MS killed my business plans

Now, I'm 12 hrs a day 7 per week, and its just a matter of time before outsourced to Asia. And if I get outsourced, its like $20k a year for medicine that might or might not work plus more in doctor fees - and god help if something else happens. Every year I pay more premiums and get less and less. I can't see the doctors I want, I pay thousands in deductibles. I can't afford the doctors I need.

Fuck all you "centrists", and the "oh insurance companies are a necessary part of health reform. Oh, government can't do anything as good as private industry... Oh its the best we can do" Pure Horseshit. Mars mission on track. Iraq invasion on track. Afghan invasion on track. Health care? Sucked in to a giant black hole.

This is going to be a feeding frenzy for wall street just like banking "reform". These are traders of human flesh making each of us a commodity in their market. We are sick and dying so that the CEO may live large.

If you don't think we are worse of now than we've ever been, check your health plan to see if they can remove that silver spoon that sticking out of ... err- better not go there.

[McCamy Taylor]

57. They better all be wrong, because Obama was not sent to DC to kiss the you know what of

health insurance executives and Big Pharm.

However, David Alexrod is a piece of work and I would not put it past him to be in the secret pay of the GOP, handing out bogus advice designed to make Obama a one term president.

[cui bono]

65. Why do you say that about Axelrod? n/t

[peacetalksforall]

58. I think people should just say it - it's the DLC. They are not for us.

If any segment of our population is robbed of insurance, blame the DLC.

We have to pay for our own preventive care.
We have to pay into employer plans.
We have to pay for supplemental insurance.
We have to pay for doughnut holes.
We have to arrange for trips out of the country.
We have to pay $75.00 for a prescription that someone in another country can get for $5.00-10.00?
And some just can't pay.
And some of us are currently being discriminated against.

WHY? So that some corporations, stockholders, boards of directors, lobbyists and congresspeople can have their money in their pocket and citizens be damned.

Maybe the question is - what does Obama owe to the DLC?
.

[Freddie Stubbs]

72. Many DLC Superdelegates supported Obama

[Divine Discontent]

60. I agree - I am let down too, however I still want Obama to succeed greatly on OUR behalf and

the 25% of the country that are moronically scared of him can kiss our collective liberal asses.

GOD BLESS YOU IN YOUR HEALTH PROBLEMS YOUR FAMILY IS GOING THROUGH!

I want real reform - come on Obama - fight for us and don't let up!

[juajen]

62. I hope this is not true, Hekate

My heart is breaking also. I have two sons who work their tails off and have no health insurance. Sickening!

[FlaGranny]

67. I'm a bit upset by all this too, but

KO was saying that if Obama accepts a bill without a public option, the Republicans are next going to start digging in their heels and start chipping away on those other provisions in the plan, NOT that Obama was negotiating now to leave them out.

KO sometimes goes so fast it's easy to miss a few words here and there, but, still, just talking about dropping the public option just makes me sick.

Edit
My second message to the president in the last few days:

"Mr. President: PLEASE do not sell us out on the "public option." PLEASE do not capitulate to insurance company greed for profit and the MINORITY who are against any kind of reform at all. These people will fight EVERYTHING you try to do. Nearly 80% of Americans want the public option and we elected you to bring us affordable health care for everyone. Don't disappoint us or we will be sorely disappointed in you."

[peace frog]

73. I've had that sick feeling

for several weeks now, since the news first broke that Obama would not insist upon a public option to go forward with healthcare "reform" legislation. He sold out on the public option weeks ago, folks. We're only paying attention now because we've heard it through the filter of KO's Countdown and guests.

Stay well, everyone. Gawd help us all when we get seriously sick once this whole charade is over.

[saracat]

68. Sigh. I am so sad about all this. I hope, hope , hope this is NOT true.

But it is looking more and more like it.

[Loge23]

71. Nothing from the WH suggests a robust plan.

We can read anything we want into what we think will come out of the WH - but Olbermann is right on with his analysis. All he is saying is what is on the table from the WH. And that, my friends, isn't a whole lot.
Why would the WH attempt to pull a rabbit out of the hat at this point on true reform?
They easily could have, and should have, been talking true reform all along - only they weren't.
Nothing wrong with still hoping for a miracle here - but that's what it will take, a miracle, at this point.
Look for Obama to lecture us - the progressives, not the right-wing - when he makes his big speech.
He'll try and sell us on the idea of failure.
Once this happens, progressives must immediately begin to plan for the next elections. Hopefully, we have found our voice.

[Enthusiast]

74. Better us with a broken heart

than the precious insurance industry.

[JHB]

75. It's a trial balloon. Shoot it down.

Contact your reps and senators, write to the White House. Again. Flood them with messages about what they can kiss goodbye if they ditch a real public option.

Obama's a politician. No matter how much you might like the guy, the only time you can trust a politician is when you're twisting his arm near the breaking point behind his back (while smiling big for the cameras and and "giving your full support" on the front side). Anything less is just begging to be sold out. Even FDR told supporters "Go out there and MAKE me do it".

[Enthusiast]

77. If President Obama drops the Public Option

Republicans will start playing nice. :sarcasm:

[Mystayya]

78. I am pretty stressed and freaked out too

I'm glad to know I am not alone in this. I really thought Healthcare and a public option would be something our Dems would fight for. Yet even here I see the spin more and more each day, preparing us to accept less. The talking points about how it might not be so bad, etc etc.

[sellitman]

80. I hope the left BLOCKS ALL PLANS that don't include the public option.

It's time we take back this party and I am prepared to make my stand here.

If not here, when?

[Vinca]

81. I'm with you and I'm one of the uninsured who desperately needs

access to medical care. If we don't revolt, everything from here on out will be whatever the Republicans want to get done on anything. If a handful of noisy wingnuts can change the entire health care debate, there's really no need to bother electing Democrats anyway. I've never seen anything like it. Obama and the Democrats win by an overwhelming majority and the Republicans still think they're in charge. And, essentially, they are. They are setting the health care agenda.

[Meshuga]

84. I will only join them if what they are saying is fact

Let Obama speak and then we can mourn or celebrate based on facts, not speculation.

Anyway, I will see the passing of a bill without a public option as failure and the money I would donate to politics will instead go to actually help the poor and the needy as opposed to politicians who ask for my money promising to fight but cave after they are elected.

But I will not make assumptions. I still believe that the Obama administration will fight for meaningful health care reform.

[TankLV]

86. The "Public Option" IS the COMPROMISE!!! WE WANT SINGLE PAYER!!!!

MEDICARE FOR ALL!!!

This is THE line in the sand - no "Trigger", no "if this doesn't work, then..." bullshit.

If Obama bails on this one, I bail on him.

It's that simple.

And there are MILLIONS who agree with me - and rightly so...

[graywarrior]

87. I stopped listening to all news heads including KO.

I do not watch cable news any more. It saves a lot of heartbreak.

[Tarheel_Dem]

166. Keith seemed to be the rational progressive talking head.

[dothemath]

88. 233 years ago .................

Just think about this. If our forefathers who got together to start a new nation
did their work along the lines of how present day republicans think our government should work, it would never have gotten off the ground.

"If I can round up more brainless, redneck, homophobic, cretinous screamers than you can, I win".

[Swagman]

90. sad to hear you sounding so low even though I don't know you..and yes..the stress

of being around hateful people does take it's toll. Try to keep positive..something good will come out of it all..I believe.

[pleah]

91. K&R

:hug:

[irislake]

92. I'm sure they twisted his arm real bad

and that he fought tooth and nail to help poor Americans. What a man of the people and friend to the poor!

[annm4peace]

93. keep calling your legislatures. Keep reminding them of HR 676

John Conyers put the bill up long before Obama was Prez.

It has the most co-sponsors of any bill.

It has the most support from union health care workers.


Don't them get to you. There are millions of us.. we just have to keep working at it.
and remind others if they don't write letter, emails, call their congress person everyday.. then they are also part of the problem.

Go to rallies or townhalls if you can (I know many are in the day)... Let them know we want single payer and that anything else will just waste tax dollars.



Corporate media will try to keep us discourage

[SandWalker1984]

98. Rep. Grijalva states Obama is dropping public option

I apparently read the same story Keith O did over at Talking Points Memo:

Grijalva: White House Telling Reformers It Will Cease Support for Public Option
Brian Beutler | September 3, 2009, 9:08AM

Last night, Rep. Raul Grijalva (D-AZ), co-chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus sent out a telling press release.
"I have grave concerns about calls reportedly being made from the Administration to health care reform advocacy organizations supporting the choice of a public option insurance plan," Grijalva said.

Grijalva said the White House is telling health care reformers, "they will cease supporting the public option portion of the upcoming health care reform legislation"
**************************

I DID NOT WORK LONG HOURS AND DONATE MONEY TO ELECT OBAMA FOR HIM TO SELL US OUT LIKE THIS!

I am so angry that the Democratic Party is being taken over by the same corporatists that have infested the Republican Party.

This fight over health care is not just about health care -- it is about keeping the Democratic Party of the working people. It is about keeping the corporate CEOs from totally running our country. If THEY win on this, we might as well change the name of our country to the United CORPORATE States of America.

If we let Obama cave to the corporations on this, we will end up with what they call health care in Massachusetts -- everyone is forced to buy PRIVATE, overpriced, crap insurance with less benefits OR pay a fine for failing to carry coverage. They punish working people for being too poor to buy insurance!

This is all out war against the corporations and we either fight this battle now or the war is over and the corporations will have won.

[krawhitham]

99. fuck Olbermann he does not even vote

he just runs his mouth hoping people will talk about what he said the next day and it is working

He is nothing but a ratings whore

[Cash_thatswhatiwant]

100. If Obama drops the public option, which I believe is the best doorway we've had to single payer,

that would be extremely disappointing. Do you think republicans will stop at demonizing the public option? Hell no.

[laughingliberal]

102. That is the point I heard them making on KO

The point was that once they cave on the public option and the bill goes to conference to reconcile the differences between the House and the Senate there will then be the opportunity to gut the employer mandate (such that it is with companies with payrolls <$500,000 exempted) and the provision forbidding exclusion of preexisisting conditions, and so on. We may well end up with a bill that is the corporations' dream come true.

[Duval]

103. My husband and I were listening, and we

both said "OH, HELL", and then split a bottle of wine! All that effort, all that hope, and we're beginning to wonder if this was the plan all along! I don't even want to think like that, but it is beginning to appear that corporations are running the country. And the media focuses on the crazies, not giving the people an honest picture of where most of the country is on health care reform. Hekate, I hope your children find a way out of their difficulties. :-(

[femrap]

104. Hekate...

So sorry you feel so sad. I've been there. I knew Obama would break hearts. I knew it in my bones. So I am not surprised.

I went to a Health Care Reform Rally/Tribute to Teddy and spoke with a knowledgeable person about HR 3200 and he said that people over 55 could buy into Medicare...that helps some of us.

It's the Progressive Caucus that needs our support....77 Congresswomen/men are saying they will not support a bill w/o a Public Option. That gives me some 'hope.'

Obama was bought and paid for. Plus he isn't a fighter. You gotta fight that damn Stupidity!!!

When I run into this Stupidity/Willful Ignorance, I say to the dude/dudette, 'You must be pretty happy that there isn't a law against being Stupid....You'd be locked up for years!'

I say it laughingly....and walk away. One of these days someone will probably shoot me....but I won't see it coming!

Take care!:hug:

[emulatorloo]

106. Well, today Chuck Todd reporting that Public Option is the speech as Obama's plan

It is all just speculation until Obama speaks.

In the mean time call your reps and senators and the White House and express your support fot Public Option.

[ProSense]

109. Olbermann was reporting rumors started by Politico.

Now that's pathetic.

[peace frog]

125. Not just "pathetic" Politico

Marc Ambinder at the Atlantic: http://politics.theatlantic.com/2009/09/white_house_floating_snowe_trigger.php
CNN's Politicalticker: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/09/04/cnn-national-political-correspondent-jessica-yellin-and-cnn-senior-political-analyst-gloria-borger/
David Corn at Mother Jones: http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2009/09/obama-dumping-public-option

and more if you care to look for it.

[LaPera]

107. Got to keep fighting, can't stop now..... (links)

Write-Call-DONATE-Protest-Petitions

Progressive Democrats of America - Do the right thing for your constituents...
http://pdamerica.org /

FireDogLake - Sign up and join the fight for a real public option
http://action.firedoglake.com/page/s/healthcareaction

MoveOn - We're at a crossroads on health care. Let Obama know you're counting on him to fight for bold health care reform including a strong public option.
http://www.moveon.org /

Progressive Change Campaign Committee - WeWantThePublicOption.com!
http://boldprogressives.org /

ActBlue - Democracy for America
http://www.actblue.com/entity/fundraisers/8280

Congressional Representative, Senators - E-Mail Addresses and Phone Numbers
http://www.elvisblogs.org/family/contact-congress-list-email-phone-fax-numbers-all-representatives-senators-2009
http://www.webslingerz.com/jhoffman/congress-email.html

National Media List
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_oet&address=358x1903

[Doctor_J]

127. Nothing will change until Big Media is drastically reconfigured

And that is not going to happen legally.

[windoe]

110. I am sort of holding my breath

stubbornly waiting to hear from President Obama. Yet at the same time, I am making plans to get out there and be seen and heard for public option. It is time. Thank you for all the information on this thread, and good luck to everybody.

[AngryOldDem]

114. Your heart just broke into TWO pieces?

Mine shattered into a million.

I'm quickly coming to the conclusion that NOTHING matters in this nation anymore. We are beyond all fucking help.

O'Donnell was right -- what is driving all of this is pure, unmitigated hate. It will kill us all in one way or another.

[Hieronymus]

117. I agree with what they said ... a sad state of affairs.

[katty]

124. it is very disheartening....

[Doctor_J]

126. So we have three choices left

We can either
1. live in Beckland, where we are targets of hatred and ignorance, and mean, stupid, hate-filled people rulw, and we work as slaves to the right-wing corporatists,

2. Take the country back, by force,

3. Flee.

Time to make the decision that best fits your personality, and live as best you can with it.

[katty]

129. copy that!

[mzmolly]

128. I adore Keith Olbermann, but I will not mourn the death of a progressive

health care reform bill until I know it's dead.

Hugs to you Hekate. :hug:

[Amos Moses]

132. The progressive reform concerning *health care* (single payer)

was dropped at the very beginning of this so called "debate". What's been batted back and forth all summer is just different degrees of *wealth care* for corporations, not health care.

[mzmolly]

133. I don't believe that single payer is the only way to a progressive

health care system. I'm talking about a public option in my post above.

[Amos Moses]

134. You're talking about insurance, not health care.

The public option that's been proposed isn't even an "option" to begin with. Anyone that has prohibitively expensive insurance through their employer now will have no choice but to keep it.

You can advocate for giving more and more to these vultures all you want. I will not join you in that. :puke:

[mzmolly]

140. I'm not so sure you're right about that assertion.

Obama has said he'd like to see choice.

[Dragonfli]

141. He'd like to see it, but not enough to push for it

The Bill is very clear on that, YOU are the one mistaken, only those that are not insured through work or who have no coverage would even be eligible for it.
Don't believe me - look it up.

[mzmolly]

150. Horrors!

BTW, there is no final bill at this time. However, it's possible that even if you're correct, once there is a choice employers will find a way to allow employees to opt out.

[Amos Moses]

151. Of course there is no final bill right now.

We are discussing what has been proposed. :think:

Not only the people who currently have insurance through their employer will be stuck with it. Even the people whose employers offer some crummy, cost prohibitive plan that they can't afford will have to take that or nothing. The public "option" will not be an option for them. They will be ineligible under the "reform" that has been proposed.

I'm interested to hear more about how employers are going to make their employees eligible for a plan that has been designed *specifically* to deny them from participating.

[mzmolly]

152. You're assuming that if we get a public option

it will work in the manner you've noted. I am not ready to embrace your view on legislation that hasn't even been finalized yet.

[Amos Moses]

154. Yeah, imagine that.

Talking about the prospect of no meaningful reform when that's what's been proposed for the past 3 months. It's crazy, I know! :crazy:

[mzmolly]

155. I just read that the White House is drafting it's own legislation.

I hope they're listening to progressives.

[Amos Moses]

156. They listen to the money men.

They're the ones in charge.

[mzmolly]

159. That would be us

given how he raised his campaign stash.

[Amos Moses]

160. If that's the case, then why hasn't he governed on our behalf?

He accepted no donations from big money interests? rrrriiiight

[mzmolly]

161. He

has governed on "our" behalf. Once again, he's not a dictator.

I'm done with this discussion. :hi:

[Amos Moses]

164. Yeah, we can't have him use is status as leader of the free world,

sent to Washington with a mandate for "Hope" and "Change", to influence legislation. That would be unpatriotic! :rofl:

[mzmolly]

169. Where did I suggest

he not influence legislation? :eyes: I suggest that there is a difference between the ability to "influence" and the ability to rule.

[Amos Moses]

170. You just said doing so would make him a dictator,

which is nonsense. What sort of involvement in the process would make him a dictator? Thanks for helping me keep this thread kicked, BTW.

[mzmolly]

171. No, I didn't.

But I did say that he alone can't pass legislation. I also said this discussion is tiresome. Your post above, demonstrates why. Feel free to insert one last desperate attempt at spin.

Cheers :hi:

[Amos Moses]

172. I just replied to myself.

:shrug:

[Amos Moses]

173. OK fuck it. I'm closing all these windows and starting over.

:rofl:

[Amos Moses]

174. You did say:

"I just read that the White House is drafting it's own legislation."

Is this what has you worried about Obama being a dictator? You seemed pretty glad about that when you said it. Then you end up contradicting yourself later in the thread: "He's not a dictator". I guess that's what happens when your entire argument amounts to nothing more than semantics.

BTW, if one of us is engaging in spin, it would be you. Some real gems like this:

"However, it's possible that even if you're correct, once there is a choice employers will find a way to allow employees to opt out."

You just made that up yourself and you know it. I asked you to be more specific about that and of course you didn't bother.

[mzmolly]

175. You appear to miss the fact that ANY legislation requires a vote?

I'm not sure what you are attempting to demonstrate with your response, other than your own ignorance.

[Name removed]

176. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mzmolly]

178. Perhaps reading the conversation and my points in context

a second time will clue you in? If not, there isn't much I can do for you really.

[BrklynLiberal]

130. I am deeply, deeply disappointed.....

[ooglymoogly]

135. The truth in this thread is truly frightening

but the louder we say it, the better the chance that Obama and the DINO's will get the message. Our anger must be loudest and the colors of blinking neon.

[Carolann]

143. Anger is

RIGHT!;(

[JuniperLea]

139. I'm reminded of all the hand wringing Keith O and Rachel M have done...

That has been proved to be wasted energy.

They are not Gods... they are not always right. We've all seen this, but dang if we all remember!

[Historic NY]

142. Don't believe all you hear...Hekate its always darkest before the dawn...

Obama is a very determined man, why else would the Repukes pulling out all stops including the batshit crazies.

[1Hippiechick]

145. Damn, Hekate - your post breaks my damn heart....so many hopes being pinned on this administration..

afraid to hope, afraid not to....

[Name removed]

158. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[treestar]

163. You do get that Congress is involved, don't you?

You seem to think the government runs for your personal benefit!

Too late to unrec.

Sorry this attitude is so unreasonable I can't see straight! Did you really think your personal problems would be taken care of by Barack Obama?

There are many people suffering. But this is a friggin' political process!

I don't have good insurance either, but I get that I'm not the one the country revolves around.

[LittleBlue]

167. Either Obama makes the public option happen, or he can win without my vote

and many other progressives.

Like you, I was hardcore Obama before he even announced his candidacy. Donated money and worked on his campaign. I still have my Obama T shirt and sweatshirt.

I will not be voting for him in 3 years if a public option isn't passed. Take that to the bank (or Goldman Sachs).

[Tarheel_Dem]

168. Could we wait until the president's speech, before succumbing to the vapors?

Keith was our last best hope for objective coverage from the left, but he's not much better than the crap you find on Fox News these days. We lost our progressive media, with the election of this president. For someone who doesn't even bother to vote, he sure has a lot of demands.

Progressive media, instead of educating the populace about healthcare reform, resorts to playing endless soundbites from rightwing whackos like Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh. The media has been captivated by the disruptive townhall meetings, and the progressive media fell for it as hard as anyone. We have only ourselves to blame, because we were outflanked by the detractors.

I'm not at all surprised that DU has chosen to lay all the blame at the steps of the WH, when we should have been organizing, instead of obsessing over stupid shit like crazy racists at townhalls. If reform were easy, it would have been done long before Pres. Obama even thought about running for president.

Perhaps we should have elected McCain/Palin, all our problems would be solved now.:eyes:

[Lord Helmet]

177. if he's wrong will your heart grow three more sizes?