Obama's giant mistake was putting pragmatism over idealism - HCR is the MORAL IMPERATIVE

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

Because we all know that in fact, that is true.

He could have also approached it from an American pride standpoint - how can the wealthiest country have the 37th rated healthcare in terms of results? How come we pay the most and get the least?

He should/could have compared it to the moonshot. We have the will, we have the money, we have the strength to create a healthcare system for American citizens that will show the world HOW IT SHOULD BE DONE!!!

What we get (probably) get instead is another half-assed incrementalist program with mandates to purchase MORE for PROFIT healthcare with an industry buy-in because they were bought off with negotiated minimal expectations and cost contributions as well as everyone involved doing back-flips to maintain their IMMORAL structure and practices.

And people wonder why some are bitter? It's like watching the Apollo program turn into 2 new runways at Reagan International.

[Klukie]

1. He could also approach it from the what about the children standpoint.

I know there is healthcare for uninsured children but what about when these kids grow up? The fact of the matter is we have no idea what the future holds for our children when they grow up. My kids may become lawyers and doctors but they may also work at the grocery store all their lives. In my mind, what they end up doing should have no bearing on whether they can afford healthcare. It is a right.... plain and simple and I expect that my leaders will do the right thing and ensure that our health does not continue to be strictly a commodity.

[TimesSqCowboy]

2. Save the bitterness for when it's over, cuz the fat lad ain't sung yet.

[mgcgulfcoast]

3. i agree

lets all calm down and work hard. its not over yet.

[WeDidIt]

19. She's been warming up for a month, though. n/t

[Buzz Clik]

4. Good call. The health care bill is dead, and we have nothing after two solid years of fighting.

Oh, wait... we don't even have a health care bill to debate yet. And Obama's deadline hasn't passed yet.

Ok, I'm confused. Why are you talking in past tense about something that has not happened?

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

5. Read this thread and my reply in it for my answer.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8625520

[Buzz Clik]

17. I read the thread and like the most of the ideas in it.

I haven't really changed my opinion about your OP. Health care reform is crucial, but even the "moon shot" was taken one step at a time. Kennedy did not sign a bill in his first year in office mandating a man on the moon by the end of his second year.

[scheming daemons]

6. Idealism doesn't get the votes in congress that are necessary...

.....and we end up with NOTHING.

[Becky72]

7. yay! Three hurrays for Centrism n/t

[scheming daemons]

9. Um...oooookay.

If pragmatism=centrism, then yes.. call me centrist or whatever you want.


Politics.. especially Presidential politics... is the "art of the possible".

[Chef Eric]

13. Um... wrong.

LBJ didn't worry too much about what was "possible."

Instead, he stayed positive, busted his ass, and twisted arms to make sure that voting rights legislation, consumer safety bills, and the Freedom of Information Act came into existence.

[Chef Eric]

8. A public option is not "idealism." A public option is what we NEED.

And if you truly believe a public option is idealism, then you must have a pretty weak imagination.

[scheming daemons]

10. A public option WILL be promoted by Obama next Wednesday...

This retching over here is getting ridiculous.


Wait. until. you. hear. what. the. man. says.

[BeyondGeography]

11. The moral argument gets us nowhere

You would think the element of the left that loses its way politically consistently would understand that by now.

Many if not most Americans aren't swayed by your moral imperative. Their own material situation is what matters to them. Health care is a dollars-and-cents issue for them. Everyone wants and needs it, and nobody wants to be limited in its use.

The trick politically is to get more people to think HCR works for them as individuals than for other people and against them. That's why people like Weiner, who consistently stresses the seven-fold overhead differentials between Medicare and private insurance, have become our most effective advocates. HCR will cost you much less than what you pay under the existing system. This is just about who you want processing your health care payments, a government-run insurer with administrative costs of 4% and a CEO who makes $150K a year, or a private insurer with 30% overhead and a CEO who makes many millions? Which entity is more likely to take care of you and less likely to deny you care, the one who works for you or the one who works for shareholders?

Notice how he leaves morality out of it. The moral argument is straightforward to you, but it makes you and others on the left emotional when it doesn't pan out politically, and all that emotion then turns to forming a circular firing squad. Dead end. For practical impact, morality is the last thing we should be emphasizing, not the first.

As for the moonshot, what real impact did that have on Americans' daily lives? It was a television show.

[Bluenorthwest]

21. That would all be fine, except for the constant moral arguments

Obama makes against equal rights for the minorities he does not like. He goes on and on about God and how God wants him to keep us from having equality under secular law. So he sure is not hesitant to moralize and invoke his God when he wants to. And it seems selective and openly bigoted to invoke such things only against others, and never for anything. Seems his 'faith' is a political affectation, a contrivance, not a consistant informer of his actions. So maybe he needs to shut up about his 'faith' fully, if he is not willing to use it other than as a bludgeon against those he holds in contempt?

[Becky72]

12. "Pragmatism" is the all-justifying word that allows a Dem to be Republican-light n/t

[polichick]

14. That is certainly what it looks like - from the war to the banks to healthcare. nt

[rucky]

15. Yep. The only time I've seen that message up-front...

is when people discuss single-payer, and yesterday's Facebook campaign.

Makes you wonder why

edit: Howard Dean & Robert Reich, too.

[polichick]

16. And pragmatism over Democratic prinicples will lead to a big Dem defeat down the road. nt

[dionysus]

18. i'm not bitter yet but i agree with the first half of the OP.

if it turns out the bill is as bad as you predict, i'll eat crow. but i'm not going to get worked up until we find out.

[Vidar]

20. K&R.