BREAKING: Chuck Todd reports on MSNBC TV now that the public option stays

[Politics_Guy25]

He just wrapped up but reported and I quote "make no mistake President Obama is not walking away from the public option. This will be in the bill." The worst fate that the public option will meet is having a trigger provision but Chuck Todd, MSNBC's chief white house correspondent, just reported that the President is NOT abandoning the public option.

[DevonRex]

1. It won't matter here. But thank you for the report. nt

[CitizenPatriot]

76. yeah

What's so sad is that with supporters like us, Obama doesn't even need the Republicans coming after him; he'll be done in 2012 for sure. We are, apparently, the "loyal opposition", except we're not very loyal at all. We're so damn pure with our loyalties to perfect ideas that we can't ever seem to find a person who is worthy of our support for longer than 5 months. Gee....that sounds like a great plan for success.

The talk about primary challenges against him here was stunningly obtuse. yeah, that's gonna work. We won't have a Democrat in office at all if that happens, because we will lose. But no matter, because by then the Republicans will have accused Obama of ten times as many crimes as they accused Clinton of, and his primary challenger will wipe him out with innuendo and vague references to Republican lies, leaving us with an unmotivated movement and independents ready for "change".

In will step Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachmann. I'm sure things will be better with them in office. OR maybe we'll get lucky and get Mittens. /s

[DevonRex]

92. All I want is for people to wait to hear what he says to the joint session of Congress

before condemning him. I guess that's too much to ask of Democrats or "progressives." They'd rather beat him into the ground first.

And laughably, they're mad because RW nuts don't want to hear what he has to say to in his speech to school kids next week.

[CitizenPatriot]

123. LOL- good point!

thanks for that -- you made me smile.

[JDPriestly]

141. If he announces that the health care bill must have a robust public option

without a trigger. I will be happy.

Do you know when the first bill to establish universal health care was introduced into Congress? 1943: The year I was born. That was 66 years ago. We have waited long enough.

Remember trickle-down economics? Well, trickle-down health care reform will not work any better.

[tomm2thumbs]

agree, NO trigger- unless it is a reverse trigger to END a public option if it doesn't work in 8 yrs

because we know it will so it would be pointless for the trigger to work backwards - would Medicare every been started if there were a 'trigger' - NO

[tomm2thumbs]

149. dupe slipped thru

[Honeycombe8]

168. To be fair, it's not as if O has been silent on this matter all spring & summer.

He has spoken on the matter several times. That's where people are getting their doubts. Not from media or the rightwingnuts.

Obama has said that the public option is merely a sliver of the reform whose goal is to cut costs and increase competition. That's the goal...the goal is not to have a public option, per se. If there is a way to cut costs and increase competition without the public option, so be it.

Obama has not insisted on a public option. He has not pounded his fists on a podium and said it must be in any bill. To the contrary, he has said that he WILL get a bill. That could be translated as whatever bill Congress sends him, he'll sign.

Obama has not once said that he would not sign the bill if it didn't contain any particular kind of provision, whether it's a public option or whatever.

I love Obama. I supported him early on. I think he's been doing an excellent job.

But let's be fair...he has not been a strong proponent of the public option, and it appears that it is correct that the W.H. made an agreement with big pharma not to remove that provision in the Medicare Reform that prevents us from negotiating good prices for medication. So there's a history there of not wanting to alienate pharma, at least.

[mistertrickster]

135. Amen, brother (or sister) . . . you should re-write this as a stand-alone post. nt

[RedCloud]

165. But Obama promised to drive the lobbyists out! That's what ticks me off.

If they could get those election destroyers away and stop using money that they pass on to the consumer anyway to lobby, then maybe we would not have to repurchase our election victory every two weeks or so with more donations out of our pockets to fight the consumer and voter swindlers.

[CreekDog]

169. if there wasn't all the anger and pushback, that "report" would not have come

this is just how the political game is played.

if i say you can negotiate away my positions, then why shouldn't he? :shrug:

[Clio the Leo]

2. makes sense to me. NT

[Politics_Guy25]

8. BTW

Politics is the art of the possible and if a trigger is what it takes to get a public option, I'll take it. Compromise is sometimes needed.

[Pirate Smile]

21. Some people don't seem to get that or just would rather go down in flames instead. It's crazy.

You know, it would have been nice if at least some basic reforms had been implemented in 93' instead of getting nothing.

Social Security didn't start off perfect. It got added to over and over again.

"Politics is the art of the possible". We are supposed to be reality based here. I wish people would focus on trying to get what is possible instead being so willing to get nothing if they can't get it all.

[Cant trust em]

42. I've decided to start calling the "down in flames" crowd "Kamikaze Liberals". nt

[Cha]

103. Or Kamikaze

Progs.

'Cause they be self-imploding.

[Ken Burch]

108. It was solely the RIGHT's faultthat no basic reforms were enacted in '93

Clinton did nothing BUT compromise in pushing that bill. Nobody on the Republican side was interested in half a loaf.

[Clio the Leo]

44. Compromise is ALWAYS needed. NT

[CTyankee]

61. As long as we keep vigilant and make sure those triggers work!

I don't want to wake up one day and wonder what happened to them! That's gonna take ALL of us here on DU keeping the schedule (and making the triggers a viable option also).

Eternal vigilance...

[RoccoR5955]

3. The trigger option is ALSO unacceptable.

It's NOT a public option. It's a way for lawyers to find a loophole, and NEVER have a public option.

[stray cat]

9. no changes at all are better? I'm not sure.

[Pirate Smile]

27. Uninsured people with pre-existing conditions can wait, I guess. Too bad for them.

[Jennicut]

38. A someone with a pre-existing condition I would like to see that part of the bill pass

[RoccoR5955]

121. So if a bill passes making it illegal for the ins cos to reject pre-existing conditions,

and it still costs these people everything they own, and then some, to get it, what darn good is it?

NO, we need at the VERY LEAST, a government run, public option, that competes DIRECTLY with these corporations, and FORCES them to lower their rates.

WTF are we kowtowing to the damn corporations? The constitution doesn't read "We the corporations." It reads, "WE THE PEOPLE," and I don't care what the Supreme Court decided, corporations are NOT people!

[quakerboy]

154. As Someone with pre-existing conditions, I would love to see that pass

But not at the cost of a mandate to purchase insurance that I cant afford now, and wont be able to afford any better the day after a proposed bill is passed into law.

Destroy the pre-existing condition clauses. Non negotiable, and no concessions to get it. If that's the only thing that happens, that's better than nothing. But if there is a purchase mandate there damn well better be a strong public option in return. If there is not, it will be FAR worse than doing nothing. A "trigger" is not a public option.

[amandabeech]

174. I also have a pre-existing condition, and I agree with you 100%.

Right now, I would not be able to afford the premiums on, say, a $500 deductible-$5000 out of pocket individual plan even if I could get one.

I might be able to squeeze out the $$ for a $5000 deductible/out of pocket catastrophic plan, which would be better than nothing. That is, IF I could get one.

Another issue for me is whether the public option would be a true group plan in which everyone pays the same or whether premiums would vary by age. At 54, I'd surely be paying many pretty pennies. What sticks in my craw is that when I was young, I was in group plans in which my employer's cost per person was uniform, thus taking the same amount out of the salary and bonus pool as for a 54 year old. The line then was that when I was older, the younger people would subsidize me. Well, the younger people won't do that anymore because they are convinced that there will be nothing left for them. The upshot is that we older workers paid more when younger and pay more now, too, even though employment for older people isn't what it once was--only one of my cousins now works a real job. That didn't happen so much as it once did.

[Ken Burch]

109. Since they won't be able to afford insurance without a public option

It couldn't be a victory for them for a bill to pass that didn't include it.

[DrToast]

32. Why do you assume that's the alternative?

[stray cat]

68. It is certainly as likely as you getting everything you want

[WeDidIt]

87. With no public option, yes, no bill is better

A bill without a public option, or with a trigger, will make matters worse and simply transfer wealth from the middle class and working poor to the pockets of insurance company executives.

[RoccoR5955]

122. No, we need at very least, a public option, for direct competition with corporations. n/t

[Politics_Guy25]

13. Come on!!

Do you want a bill passed or not? This unwillingness to compromise reminds me of George W. Bush and FR, just the other side of the same coin.

[tekisui]

22. Giving up public option, whether directly or through the 'trigger'

is not compromise, it is rolling over for the fat cat insurance execs. Have some spine!

[MNDemNY]

33. UNWILLING TO COMPROMISE ????

For fuck sakes, any more compromising , and we will just give billions to Blue-cross with no strings! The starting point was National Health Care System, we have given that up, we have given up Single Payer, we have given up the expansion of Medicare, what else should we give up??? The White House?

[ihavenobias]

115. Bingo.

The premature 'we told you so's' in this thread are also absurd because it's quite likely that IF we get a substantive Public Option it's in part because of the outrage expressed by those who believed reports that Obama had caved in on the issue. They saw hot politically damaging it would be to give up on Single Payer AND a Public Option AND negotiating prescription drug prices. Even universal coverage seems to be up for debate.

If anything they should be saying "thank you" rather than "I told you so" if we get a Public Option.

[fascisthunter]

137. some folks haven't been paying attention apparently

we've compromised enough to corporate America and the wealthy.

[Froward69]

49. Nothing angers republicans more

than giving them a dose of their own medicine (pun intended) Granted they will not learn from the experience but as they relish in cramming their plans down our throats. We should relish in watching them choke on ours.

[slay]

86. It depends on the bill!

Public option = yes. Trigger provision = no. Do it RIGHT or wait until you have the votes to do it right. I'll compromise on MANY things - a public option is NOT one of them.

[Pirate Smile]

94. It would be decades.

[RoccoR5955]

120. You don't compromise with a dining room table.

You push it out of the way!

It's high time we didn't compromise with these damn Cons, and just told them to STFU, and get out of the way of progress.
THEY are the ones who say that government can do no good, and THEY prove it with their actions.

[Bonn1997]

148. Why should we settle for anything less than Canada or much of Europe?

There's no reason Americans should demand less from their politicians than those countries' citizens demanded from theirs.

[DUlover2909]

155. Why should we comprimise when we don't have to?

[Tippy]

20. We went from Public Option, to no Public Option to

Public Option...now on to Medicare for all....

[MarjorieG]

111. Kerry said he'll push for strong public option at 60, then 50, and trigger if all else fails. Very

last option.

[lame54]

166. This is like telling the buyer of your home what your bottom price is,

at the beginning of negotiations. I voted for Kerry but he has got to stop negotiating by given them his lowest bid.

[joeycola]

57. indeed. NOT acceptable.

[Teaser]

126. who says you get to decide what's acceptable?

.

[Hepburn]

142. Agree...

...and I am speaking as a retired lawyer. A trigger provision is gonna be milked forever with continuances of compliance dates on and on.

A trigger is unacceptable.

JMHO

[man4allcats]

150. Agreed. Just another way to allow the insurance companies to continue screwing the American people.

Attention please! This is the Captain. The Titanic has struck an iceberg and is sinking. Just as soon as the water gets a few feet higher we will lower the lifeboats. In the meantime, simply remain calm and go about your business as if nothing had happened because, in fact, nothing really has in terms of our actually intending to do anything to help you survive. Rather, we only want to create the illusion that we give a damn and that help is on the way.

[Born_A_Truman]

4. I seem to remember the PO wasn't immediate in the 1st place

I've tried reading the House bill but it crashed my laptop twice. I seem to remember it was phased in or took a year or so before it was offered due to establishing the system. I could be wrong.

Thanks for reporting this!

[MNDemNY]

17. That is WAY different than a "trigger" .

apples to oranges.

[druidity33]

167. Al Franken brought up, while schooling a Tbagger,

the fact that Medicare Part D (and other parts?) had a trigger(s) that could have, still can be, set off. Something about the government being able to set prices to contain costs, if pharmas couldn't keep them down? Ever heard of this?

Loves me some Al...

[Jennicut]

23. it comes in later, liberalpragmatist had this awesome post from the other day about it

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8625520&mesg_id=8625520

[Blasphemer]

116. Phasing it in is one thing... giving the Insurance industry a trigger is another thing entirely..nt

[tridim]

5. Thanks Chuckles for finally joining reality

I assume he'll abandon it by day's end.

[rudy23]

6. Public option with triggers is a public option that will never happen.

I hope the rest of the party isn't dumb enough to swallow this.

[DrToast]

10. I agree. People need to push harder now: No trigger.

[GrantDem]

78. +1

[slay]

88. +1 more

looks like many here on this board are swallowing it right now yum yum while i'm all puke puke. Public option - no trigger. Period.

[DrToast]

7. Bravo to the CPC for standing their ground

Let the Blue Dogs compromise. And they will. I don't believe for a second they will kill health care reform over a public option. They just didn't want to have to vote for it.

[Jennicut]

31. Baucus today declared that the Gang of Six was a disaster, in so many words

Will he or won't he and his buddies back the public option when it really comes down to it?

[Captain Hilts]

11. I hope so! Why all the hocus pocus? If so, why aren't they bolder about it?

[DevonRex]

15. Exactly as I predicted above. It won't matter to DU that this was reported. nt

[MNDemNY]

18. A trigger is NOT an option.

[Captain Hilts]

34. The WH is not generating a clear message. nt

[ProSense]

47. Nonsense, his message couldn't be more

clear

Stand with the President

[DevonRex]

48. The voices in their heads have told them otherwise.

:evilgrin:

[Captain Hilts]

56. He needs to get his cabinet on message.

[yodermon]

110. It's his chief of staff that drives me crazy.

[Spazito]

67. Yes, but if you notice, it is the same ones, over and over...

and there are very few of them being VERY busy. They are trying to discourage as many as they can, they will fail.

[DevonRex]

71. I'm pretty discouraged. Not about Obama but about DU. nt

[Spazito]

83. Don't be discouraged about DU...

The vast majority of DUers are not part of the 'down on Obama' crowd and we just have to wait them out, imo. Their posts, and remember they are VERY FEW in number, stay if they are within the rules of the site and, as irritating as they might be, it is fair that they do stay. I find using the tools DU provides is helpful at times like this. I use the hide thread with what I feel are the most egregious ones, skip past others without opening them and engage in others.

Hang in there, this is almost over. The President will speak next week and there WILL be a bill passed from which Americans will benefit, I am SURE of it.

[Cha]

105. Yeah, that's pretty much what I do..

except when I get caught up in stupidity of telling gratuitious President Obama bashers what I think.

[DevonRex]

107. Well, this is my last post until after the speech. This site is intolerable

right now. I regret coming back after my 2-month break a while back. We have been taken over by Greens, Independents, PUMAs and RWers. And I guess that's the way the site owners like it.

So be it. It's their site. I have no right to tell them what to do and nobody is forcing me to come here.

Fight the good fight Cha. You don't mince words when you get angry. Good for you. I just don't have the energy anymore.

[Cha]

156. You're inspiring, DevonRex..

I should stay the heck away until President Obama gives his Health Care Speech. Let the "what ifs" and the "pissers" whine their heads off until then.

[Spazito]

112. LOL, I, too, get caught up in the frenzy at times, forgetting my own advice to myself...

and have to walk away from the computer for a bit. It is happening less often now, though, as the 'hair on fire/down on Obama' posters become more and more hilarious in their hyperbole. I now make bets with myself as to which of the twenty or so consistent 'down on Obama' posters will 'participate' in which thread. It becomes quite amusing and helps keep the reality that there are really very few of them, busy as they may be.

[MNDemNY]

12. a "trigger" is a cope-out. Too easy to delay or reverse.

NO PUBLIC OPTION NO BILL TRIGGER= NO PUBLIC OPTION

[Pirate Smile]

14. It is the same as it's always has been but people get wee weed up and go off half-cocked.

;)

I'm afraid the RW irrationality is rubbing off.

[bushisanidiot]

16. Doesn't matter. The trolls here will still scream that the sky is falling and

"regret" their vote for President Obama.

haha!

[DevonRex]

19. Yep. Busy moving goalposts as we speak. nt

[MNDemNY]

24. No need to move them ,the kick is well short of the goal.

[DevonRex]

28. As I predicted, it won't matter what Obama said. nt

[MNDemNY]

35. See what he says next week.

But a "trigger" means NO public option.

[DevonRex]

39. See what he says next week. nt

[ej510]

25. What kind of public option?

This is the question. I have read reports where it states the public option will only cover 10 million and only a few will qualify for the public option.

[DevonRex]

29. As I predicted, it won't matter what Obama said. nt

[Junkdrawer]

41. Seems to me it's Obama moving the goalposts...

Bait and switch: How the “public option” was sold

[DevonRex]

43. As I predicted, it won't matter what Obama said. nt

[Junkdrawer]

50. Seems to me it's Obama moving the goalposts...

Two can play that retarded game

[rudy23]

62. Most of the trolls I've seen are the ones who blindly support Obama's corporate streak.

Most Democrats I know have serious concerns about the way Obama is operating. Why wouldn't that be voiced on a Democratic website?

[bushisanidiot]

69. AWOL Bush picks his nose in public and eats what he found.

Would you like to see the pictures?

Oh, and the trolls are the one's taking any and all opportunities to bash President Obama.
They're really easy to spot cuz they keep starting new threads trying to bash him.

Guess they're pissed that our guy won and theirs got his ASS handed to him.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

[rudy23]

79. Um, hi, I am a Democrat person.

I do not like George W. Bush. Go Obama. I am a Democrat. I promise. Down with Bush. See? The end.

[slay]

96. You are not helping

at all.

[slay]

89. Doesn't matter. The trolls here will still sell out the public option just to score Obama a ""win""

it's goes both ways genius.

[bushisanidiot]

104. Sorry, dude but the trolls are the anti-Obama idiots who are looking

to bring him down any way they can. They don't want him to "win" anything.
Those cry-babies can't stand that he smaked McCain's ass around last November and will never accept that President Obama is their Commander In Chief.

[slay]

106. A "win" is not a WIN without the public option

how do you not understand that? :shrug: None of us are McCain fans - just cause we don't agree on how Obama is handling things is no excuse for you to laugh at us and call us McCain fans. that's a very republican tactic you are using.

[fascisthunter]

138. no man... like not

[Beetwasher]

26. Of Course, Never Doubted For A Second, And I Will ALSO Predict NO TRIGGER

That won't stop the hysterical whiners though.

[ProSense]

30. Breaking: the media suck

"The worst fate that the public option will meet is having a trigger provision"

Editorializing for confusion.

[CoffeeCat]

36. This has to be a REAL public option...

Let's not all start screaming for a public option without realizing that we just might get
what we asked for.

A public option must not discriminate for pre-existing conditions.

A public option must be a Medicare-like option and not some package of expensive insurance that does not address the problems
with healthcare--and only helps the insurance companies.

We have to make sure that they pass a public option that is true reform--not just a symbolic facade.

[Arkana]

37. Ahaahahaha Chuck Todd is like if you gave a drunk a notepad and a Blackberry

and made him a WH correspondent.

[Cant trust em]

40. I am withholding all judgment until next Wednesday.

to me, there is no news until I hear the speech.

[DevonRex]

51. +1 for rational thought. nt

[Froward69]

45. This is what I thought

I really think the president is laying low on his assertions of what should be in the health care bill. as his opinion will be attacked mercilessly the instant he finishes the sentence.

[drm604]

46. A trigger essentially neuters the public option.

Like I said in another thread - Even if the insurance companies did eventually get their act together to prevent the triggering of this thing they would hold off doing it until the last minute. Meanwhile we'll continue with increasing health care costs and all of the problems that go with that.

That's if they actually get their act together. More likely, they'll spend the time looking for loopholes and trying to get Republicans back into power so that they can repeal the whole thing before it actually gets triggered.

Imagine the media blitz we have now, times 100, a year or so before the triggering occurs.

[Froward69]

53. Hear Here!!!!

I agree fully!
the "trigger" will never get pulled as it is a delaying action to eliminate the whole thing down the road.

Think about it the Ins comps say they cannot compeate. they had 18 years to controll costs...
What makes anyone think they will do so in however long until the trigger executes? They won't even try. they will work to eliminate the whole health care bill ASAP.

[mvd]

75. IMO..

the trigger would not be acceptable as a compromise unless it's an automatic trigger. If we can't get the votes, just passing things like the no denial due to pre-existing conditions would be best. And keep working on the other things. And no mandate yet.

[quiller4]

163. Triggers work in other areas, for example extensions of unemployment

are triggered by increases in unemployment rate.

[TeamJordan23]

52. Obama needs to sell the public option in his speech next week. nm

[grahamhgreen]

160. At least, or He needs to nationalize big insurance or give us single payer next week, IMHO

[Lorien]

54. He does, he doesn't he is, he isn't , he will, he won't

Obama could help us all out by taking a clear stand on the issue and sticking to it.

[joeycola]

59. the wishy washy approarch the WH is taking is dooming the bill.

[rudy23]

65. Is it intentional? That's my question.

For a guy who ran the most disciplined campaign we've ever seen, the whole team sure is bumbling in their "push" for a public option.

[joeycola]

100. I agree. It sems odd that is for sure. Yet, the WH approach is not

good these last several months.

[ProSense]

74. Maybe it's some people's wishy washy hearing that's dooming the bill in their own mind. n/t

[joeycola]

99. Hi ProSense. Perhaps some hear better. Have a nice day.

[Jennicut]

60. Hopefully he clears it up in his speech

He does need to take one stand.

[ProSense]

73. Obama has never said anything other than he supports the public option, and

it must be in the bill he signs

The media spinners do not speak for Obama.

[rudy23]

81. Will Obama speak for Obama and say he's against triggers or co-ops?

I highly doubt it. It's what he's not saying, in light of what others in his party are saying, that has people worried.

[TheKentuckian]

55. Want a trigger? Trust the market to fix this? Then make it for single payer

Until conservatives (using the term loosely and in current political context) Democrat or Republican puts up or shuts up and comes to the table with some locked in markers and says they believe the market and regulation can be so effective that they call for single payer to be triggered if and at anytime the goals are not met then they are full of shit and clearly arguing in bad faith.

You aren't allowed to fail over multiple generations with ever worsening results and then turn around and ask for another decade or two to get things right before some incremental effort at correction can be attempted. That's bullshit. At what point is there a responsibility to admit that your approach doesn't really work and something else needs to be given a go, particularly when there are numerous examples of different methods working more effectively.

If they believed insurance companies would really change then they'd bet the house. The truth is they have almost no confidence they can even compete with a public plan.

[jefferson_dem]

58. Ben Nelson is signaling support for the "trigger" as compromise

Nelson told the Star Journal he thinks there is room for consensus critical issues in health care reform, such as how to reduce costs. However, he told the paper he sees two very different potential endings to the current debate.

"One is we find areas we can agree upon and we begin to do things incrementally, taking more of an insurance approach, not a government approach," he said. "Or it implodes."

Nelson was not necessarily referring to the public option in that statement, Thompson told the Hotsheet on Friday.

"He's open to the idea of a public option as long as it doesn't seriously erode the coverage that 200 million Americans now have," Thompson said.

A common criticism of the public option is that private insurance companies may not be able to compete with it.

Though he is "open" to the idea, Thompson said Nelson is "certainly skeptical about what's been talked about in terms of a public option at this point... The robust public option that is envisioned in the House bill is not something he could support."

The senator is also open to the "trigger" plan that has gained recent attention, or to establishing nonprofit cooperatives in lieu of a public plan, Thompson said.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/09/04/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry5288472.shtml

[gkhouston]

132. Oh, if Nelson's for it then you know damn well that trigger will never go off.

It's a scam, not a compromise.

[Robbins]

63. Remember

A trigger may be required to get Health Care reform passed.Remember we have many DINO plus Lieberman
who a trigger may be needed to get It through.Plus Snowe could cross over to support It.

In Political terms Helath Care with some kind of Public opotion Is needed or a Big Victory for
Republicans.

[rudy23]

66. "some kind" of public option could mean NO public option if we're not careful about what kind it is.

I could care less about who scores a political victory with all this.

[ProSense]

70. "A trigger may be required to get Health Care reform passed." Nope:

Reconciliation and 51 votes

[Orangepeel]

91. are there even 51 votes? Last I read it was 46. n/t

[ProSense]

93. 49

here

[polichick]

98. I agree - much better to go with 51 and a public option! nt

[grantcart]

64. this was obvious

[GrantDem]

72. Ahhh yes... The "trigger" -->>

Another loophole/compromise that allows the healthcare industry to scam their way into increased profits at the expense of the people.

[bvar22]

77. Medicare Part D has a "trigger" too.

Hows that working out?

[WeDidIt]

95. The trigger will have a lock on it

No way does the trigger ever get pulled. That's the reason for a trigger.

And the public option was tirggered when the insurance comapnies proved themselves too irresponsible to manage health care in this country fifty years ago!

[bvar22]

114. There are a lot of SUCKERS on DU.

They are either incredibly naive, or benefiting ($) from the failure of Health Care Reform.

I believe it is a mix....1/2 innocents and 1/2 predators.

I wish I could get the innocents over to my house for a game of 3-Card Monty.
They behave like they have never been scammed before...
AND "Triggers" is a BIG SCAM.

[ipaint]

117. No suckers...Most have ins. and are looking for a rate cut.

A compromise that sells out tens of millions in the working class and working poor is not a problem if they can save a hundred on their premiums each month.

Gatekeepers.

[madfloridian]

80. With a trigger option, we may as well do nothing at all.

That's not right to even consider it.

[slay]

84. Exactly

I see no reason to be thrilled about this until they stop hedging with this damn "trigger provision" bullshit.

[ProSense]

90. Luckily, it appears to be under consideration by the media. n/t

[kenny blankenship]

113. The trigger means "for now, just go away!" and later on guess what you'll hear?

Just go away for now!

THe same reptiles who insisted on the trigger will claim that the conditions for triggering the public option, or whatever watered down crap we're calling a public option, HAVE NOT BEEN MET. You will look at the data that clearly shows the conditions specified in the bill do exist and they will simply tell you that they do not exist. People should remember how easily Up became Down under the previous administration. (People should remember that there were supposed to be "trigger conditions" in the Iraq War Resolution which supposedly constrained the Administration to do certain things and to not do certain things until certain conditions were met. But what of practical value were those conditions? They didn't mean a damn thing, and intelligent honest people knew this and said so at the time.) And after a long, bloody fight, in which you make no progress against the cries of UP IS DOWN! your opponent , the Trigger Man, will agree to this much:

At some later time, when the insurance co.s have been given a fifth second chance to mend their ways, they will sit down with you to talk about what maybe should be done about that. They promise! In exchange for you going away with this wonderful pledge in your pocket they will stop screaming in your face UP IS DOWN UP IS DOWN UP IS DOWN!!!

And when the time comes for you to have that discussion with them they will agree to have a discussion about the appropriate time in the future might be for you to have that discussion with them. But for now it is UP IS DOWN UP IS DOWN

until you just go away.

[slay]

82. "Public option" VS "Trigger provision"

It's one or the other. Either we get a public option OR we get a trigger provision. If it's the public option = yay! If it's the trigger provision - fuck that - people are sick and dying NOW - they can't wait for a "trigger"!

[WeDidIt]

85. Please please please let this be true

and let there be no trigger because if they are using a trigger, the public option is dead.

[polichick]

97. Semantics. The trigger IS walking away from the public option. nt

[Cha]

101. Yeah, I fucking knew he wasn't.

Am I freakin' psychic or something?

[bigdarryl]

102. sound like its how you define public option in the bill

it sounds like there playing with words like it all depends on what the word public option is

[d_b]

118. a po trigger?

...

:puke:

fuck 'em all.

[alcibiades_mystery]

119. The haters have already been prepping for their outrage with the qualifier "strong"

That is, they now want what they vaguely call a "strong" public option. Needless to say, nothing will be strong enough for them.

Some people just enjoy being outraged, and they'll take any opportunity to twist themselves into that sad condition. The others are just bitter Clintonites who hate Obama for making them look like fools. Maybe 10% of the posts are genuinely cogent critique.

Make no mistake: when the bill passes with a public option, the haters will infest this board, complaining that it is not "strong." They're pathetic losers.

[Enrique]

125. so where are the haters?

there's over 100 responses in this thread and you have to invent imaginary "haters" to mock.

If the bill passes with a public option, I will give full credit to Obama and to the progressives who worked hard to force him to do it.

The progressives will have to fight all through the eight years of Obama's presidency. This is only the first battle. Next will be EFCA.

[Enrique]

124. what, no cracks about the MSM?

wow, 50+ recs for Chuck Todd. He must have suddenly become a fantastic reporter. That should last until he says something "bad" about Obama.

By the way, I have no problem with Chuck Todd or with this story. I hope it's true.

[LaydeeBug]

127. The trigger is bullshit. No meaningful legislation has ever been "triggered".

This is sad.

[freddie mertz]

128. This goes back and forth all the time...

The conflicting and always changing "reports" make it seem likely that we have a White House that is as confused and divided as it appears to be.

My guess is that we won;t know either way until they stop trying to juggle all the balls at once and come to a decision.

If they are capable of it, that is.

[bigwillq]

129. It damn well better stay.

Still in wait-and-see approach as to whether or not our CongressCritters will sell us out or not.

[Kingofalldems]

130. DU disruptor(s) un-reccing this one big time

[Cleita]

131. The trigger option is a sell out. People need access to health care now

regardless of their ability to pay.

[S_E_Fudd]

133. A trigger is simply a way to kill the public option while trying to save face...

You can be sure the insurance companies will be working 'round the clock to find any loopholes that they can exploit to keep the public option from being triggered while still f*cking over their "customers"....

[Lex]

151. I agree.

nt

[mistertrickster]

134. But . . . but . . . but . . . bitter tears of disappointment are so much more fufilling for

the narcissist blogger than Obama actually following through.

Let's see if this post gets more RECs than the one calling Obama a sell-out.

What are the "I'm more pure than you people who sell out to the political process" people going to do when Obama passes a public option?

Complain that it wasn't single payer, no doubt . . .

[SemiCharmedQuark]

136. I *want* to believe

But Chuck Todd has been a pretty bad journalist thus far.

[fascisthunter]

139. No Trigger

no more bullshit games. You either make a public option WITHOUT FUCKING STRINGS ATTACHED or you don't. No more games!

[MasonJar]

140. The public option does matter and we will be supporters if he insists on it.

If he accepts something less, I'm gone.

[bkkyosemite]

143. No Trigger...it's nothing without being strong with no trigger..

[bkkyosemite]

144. Jerry Brown has decided to go after United Health and others because they are denying

care for 30 to 46% of the people paying premiums and we want a trigger to see if the DEATH PANELS will be good boys and girls so no trigger will take effect.....and then the republicans will take over and take healthcare off the table in the years to come. NO Enough!

[mudstump]

145. OK people....

if Obama begins anew with a STRONG demand that the public option is a MUST HAVE...


then we have to mobilize like no one's business to make it happen...

we have to work for another election..

the election of health care reform.

Will you do it?

[krawhitham]

146. the media is playing everyone

We know nothing until 9-9-09. The media will say whatever they think will get people to watch. It is no long about news it is only about ratings

[vssmith]

147. It seems to me that Medicare for all would be easier to sell to the public than the public option

[jgraz]

152. Translation

"Make no mistake President Obama HAS ALREADY walked away from the public option, assuming he ever intended to push for in the first place. This will NOT be in the bill." The best we can hope for is having a phony device that will keep the public option from ever happening while allowing the glee club to still pretend that Obama is actually doing something.

[Colobo]

153. Obama will get this. The drama queens will still whine, though.

[Stinky The Clown]

157. Yanno ..... some people have some principles that matter to them.

They may not match yours, but they're very real and very valid.

Yet you call them whiners.

Meanwhile, if you were called a cultist, or groupie, or fan, you'd be all pissed off.

That name calling bullshit cuts both ways.




And what's with this "Trigger"?

[grahamhgreen]

158. How many more will die waiting for the 'trigger' - they are killing people. Unacceptable. Immoral.

Wrong.

[avaistheone1]

159. The trigger is a stalling tactic. The public health plan must not haver a trigger.

[McCamy Taylor]

161. I think we are being played.

[jeanpalmer]

162. He abandoned it months ago

when the price tag was announced by the CBO -- $400 billion a year. At that point, the public option became moot. There's no money for it -- not even close. That's why there's little support for it.

What Todd is referring to is the fake public option which is the downsized version of the real public option. It's not a public option because it is too small to function as one, but is designed primarily to fool the people into believing they're getting one.

[Amos Moses]

164. I thought we weren't supposed to believe the MSM.

Especially Chuck Todd. :shrug:

[newportdadde]

170. A trigger provision for a Public Option is no Public Option at all. Keeping our powder dry?

[Gman]

171. Yes No Yes No Yes No Yes No Yes No Yes No Yes No Yes No Yes No Yes No Yes No Yes No Yes No Yes No

Too many people talking.

[Faryn Balyncd]

172. a trigger is NOT a public option

[Faryn Balyncd]

173. Obama must get the message: TRIGGERS DON'T COUNT :

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6471499

[Kaleko]

175. K & R

[vaberella]

176. He never was. n/t