Why can't we wait til Wednesday?

[NYMountaineer]

I gotta be honest here, and I'm sure plenty of folks will disagree with me, still being a relatively new member here, but all this speculation about what Obama's plan will or won't include, the rumors floated here and there by the media, and the arguments over just who represents a credible source on the subject are wearing thin.

I might be in the minority here, but I'm sure there are others who find all this conjecture very confusing. So I simply ask, why must we make contingency plans now, as if Obama's plan was already a consummate failure? None of this was ever a certainty, particularly with all of the Blue Dogs in the Senate, and I want a strong public option as much as the next guy here, but even if they come up with a magnificent plan, we'd still need to bring the hammer down on a number of key senators to get it passed. Thus, meaningful reform will be hard won either way.

Now, I know the suspense is killing all of us, and I can't wait to hear his speech either, but I intend to do my level best to keep a cool temper until I find out exactly what it's all about on Wednesday before deciding our course of action.

All I'm saying is, let's not count our chickens before they hatch.

[Bluzmann57]

1. No no no. That just makes sense!

You are not allowed that luxury in here. Welcome to our dysfunctional family. There is fussing and fighting in here, but in the end, we all agree that bush and co. just absolutely stunk and that mistake cannot happen again.

[treestar]

2. Stop making sense

It's not allowed here!

:hi:

[Amos Moses]

3. Because we're not a bunch of starstruck fanboys.

Well, not all of us anyway.

[CakeGrrl]

7. So now, chilling out and waiting for ACTUAL INFORMATION

makes one a starstruck fanboy.

Someone calibrated their Obama hatred bar too low even for DU lately.

:rofl:

[Amos Moses]

10. Oh, OK the only "ACTUAL INFORMATION" comes from BO.

Nobody else has given us a single bit of "ACTUAL INFORMATION" so far. This, despite the fact that he's left the crafting of this legislation up to Blew Dogs and Olympia Snowe. Only the One can speak with any authority on the issue. Sure, whatever you say.

[Arkana]

12. No, I'd just rather hear it from Obama's mouth than from the junior senator

from East Bumfuckistan that the public option is "dead, sir. Dead."

Then I'll believe it.

He's never shown anything but the utmost support for the public option, because he believes it's the best way to keep insurance companies honest.

[inna]

48. "keep insurance companies honest"

think. the statement above is an oxymoron.

[CakeGrrl]

14. What do you know with certainty about any bill being drafted?

No one knows what's going to reach the President's desk or what he's going to do once it gets there.

Everything being dissected on this board is speculation.

[Amos Moses]

15. The fact that we * don't * know is enough cause for concern

aside from some of the horrible provisions that have been proposed for this "reform". It's being "dissected" because it's important. :think:

[Qutzupalotl]

16. Which provisions do you find horrible and why do you call Obama "the One"?

[CakeGrrl]

17. "The One" tells you quite a bit

That's a RW/PUMA standard talking point. Anyone who uses that is not interested in a serious discussion, IMO, as I think they're in an unrecoverably negative position about the President that isn't likely to change no matter what positive actions come from the WH or this administration.

Edit: I know you were asking the other poster a question; but the tired repeated use of that flamebait phrase is silly and pretty telling at this stage.

[Amos Moses]

30. Your blind devotion to a person instead of policy says a lot, too.

Like maybe you need to start thinking for yourself and quit being a neo liberal apologist.

[CakeGrrl]

38. Blah blah blah talking points...

"Neo liberal apologist". I wonder if you even know that MEANS other than that it sounds kinda derogatory?

:rofl:

[Amos Moses]

40. I notice you don't deny it.

FWIW, http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x342267

[CakeGrrl]

44. It really doesn't rate response. Pretty ridiculous and hyperbolic. n/t

[Amos Moses]

46. Nonsense. You took the time to respond.

You just don't have anything to say other than "PUMA"! "TRAITOR"! "BLASPHEMER"! :eyes:

[CakeGrrl]

47. I never even used two of those words. More hyperbole from an anger bear. n/t

[Amos Moses]

51. More demands of obedience from an irrational bear. n/t

[Amos Moses]

28. I call him "the One" because he has so many blind worshipers.

On one hand they say "he can't do it all, especially in 8 months!" Then they turn around and act like everything hinges on a speech he's going to give. It's nothing but a bunch of silly carrying on by adults acting like children.

[Qutzupalotl]

66. A lot does hinge on his speech.

If he can win over more people, they'll pressure their representatives. I think you're discounting our trump card.

[Amos Moses]

29. How about

the provisions making it impossible for most people to opt into the so called public option? It's not an option if you can't choose it. :think:

How about a law requiring every single American to hand over money to a private industry or pay a fine whether they can afford it or not?

How about so called "reform" that does nothing to control costs?

[Qutzupalotl]

57. Which provision makes it impossible for most people to opt in to the public option?

[Amos Moses]

58. Most people offered insurance through their employer now,

no matter how bad it is, will have to take that. They will not be allowed to choose the public option.

There's a flip side, though: If your employer offers you acceptable care and you reject it, you are barred from buying insurance in the insurance "exchange." In other words, you must take the insurance offered to you at work. And that might have made sense if, as decreed in the House version, employers actually had to offer good care. But in the Senate version passed by the HELP committee, there is no real requirement for employers to provide any kind of minimal level of care. On the contrary, employers who currently offer sub-par coverage will have their shitty plans protected by a grandfather clause. Which means …

"If you have coverage you like, you can keep it," says Sen. Sanders. "But if you have coverage you don't like, you gotta keep it."

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/29988909/sick_and_wrong/5

[Qutzupalotl]

62. Wouldn't you expect they'd keep the House's care level requirements

when they mesh with the Senate version?

[Amos Moses]

64. Considering how these negotiations have gone,

and the people who are dictating the policies, I expect more concessions to be made. Hell, they're talking about some BS five year trigger now. If there ever was any serious debate about meaningful reform, it's over at this point.

[Baltoman991]

23. Woops!!!

Did you out yourself by mistake? "The One"? Fox News favorite name for Obama? Freepers favorite name for Obama?

You're cover is blown, time to send in the replacements.

[Amos Moses]

31. oh, fuck off silly ass

[dionysus]

36. busted, and the true colors come out.

:rofl:

[Amos Moses]

41. lame

:eyes:

[bahrbearian]

63. Totally Lame

These are the people who tell you to stop talking because they can't hear them selfs Cheer.

[Number23]

67. Yep. Even the mods saw them

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=242968

[Qutzupalotl]

68. Thanks

and here I was today talking to a tombstone. 8)

[DerekG]

56. If Fox News does in fact use "The One," just use others

Two favorites heard from my side of the aisle--which happens to be the Left--are Obomb'em and Mr. Hope n' Change. Or just refer to him as The Con Artist.

[Amos Moses]

61. Looks like we're on the same side, then.

You won't find many Fox viewers that are anti war, pro labor, pro single payer, and against DADT and DOMA.

[Cha]

9. NO, because that would be at least

3 more days when you couldn't whine and bitch yourselves into a stupid frenzy.

[Amos Moses]

11. pathetic

[Baltoman991]

21. Oh fuck you

and you're calling Obama supporters worshippers, fanboys, apologists or any other fucking name you use.

We're supporters, period end of story. We're not a bunch of fucking star struck people. You and the others on the other hand are nothing but a bunch of fucking haters who think you're fucking mind readers and know whats going on. Problem is, you don't know shit. You know what the media is feeding you and you're stupid enough to believe it. That's not the fault of Obama supporters though.

[Amos Moses]

32. Cry some more, boy.

See if I care. :cry:

[dionysus]

37. ooooh, internet tuff guy!!! **tremble tremble tremble**

:rofl: fetch the smelling salts....

[Amos Moses]

39. oooh internet suck ass **stinky stinky stinky**

[dionysus]

42. was that supposed to be a witty retort?

:shrug:

[Amos Moses]

43. No, I was mocking your silly post.

:think:

[Baltoman991]

50. Trust me

when I tell you, a pathetic troll such as yourself is really nothing to cry over. If anything I pity you and your pathetic ways.

[Amos Moses]

52. "Why won't he obey me"?

whaaaaaaa! :cry:

[Baltoman991]

54. To borrow

a line from you..............."silly ass".

[Amos Moses]

55. "He doesn't agree with me and he won't be intimidated by my

personal attacks". whaaaa! :cry:

[dionysus]

53. .

:thumbsup:

[WeDidIt]

4. Driving up angst on left wing message boards, blogs, and fora serves to drive up

calls to representatives, senators, and thw white house.

It's better to get everybody worked up and calling, writing, and urging others to do the same rather than sitting back and waiting to see what will be.

[NYMountaineer]

5. Fair point.

Believe me, I'm no Obama fanboy. I respect him, and I believe he's done well so far, but ultimately he's an employee hired by us to get a certain job done, and if he can't complete the task, there must be repercussions. I've sent in a letter voicing my feelings. I'll sign any petition to put the pressure on our boys in Washington.

But I think there's a difference between rallying the troops behind public option, as opposed to declaring victory or defeat outright, which seems to be what some folks are hinting at.

[dionysus]

35. that is true, but it also goes too far when you have clowns already talking about primary

challenges in '12.

[Peacetrain]

6. Wednesday is about right.. At this point in the game, the media

is driving the fringe batty by giving them snippets from unknown sources to keep them tuned in and ginned up.


It works..

[Honeycombe8]

8. You are wise, Grasshopper. But really, he's already given one speech on health care.

Did you see it?

And he's made other statements and more informal speeches on health care reform recently. Did you see any of those?

It's not like he hasn't made some sort of position clear already. He has said in the past that he means what he says. I think he does, usually.

He has clearly said that the goal of the reform is to cut costs and cover as many more people as possible. A public option would be one way to do that, but that is just a "sliver" of any bill. The goal is to cut costs and cover more people, and that can be achieved in several ways, like making sure care provided is efficient, subsidizing premiums, etc. He WILL get a bill passed, he said.

That's what he has said. The sum total of that is...the P.O. isn't that critical to him. If a bill is presented to him, and it cut costs and covers significantly more people, he will sign it because it achieves his goals...even if it doesn't have a public option.

I suppose he could change his mind and suddenly want a robust public option. Anything's possible. But I think he probably does mean what he says when he says it, and he has said the P.O. isn't critical.

[Sebastian Doyle]

13. Because IF he is planning on caving in to corporatist criminals

It's up to us to let him know that is NOT. FUCKING. ACCEPTABLE.

Would that cause him to change his mind by Wednesday? Maybe, maybe not. But it certainly lets him know that he's cutting his own political throat if he hears us, and then sells out anyway.

[avaistheone1]

19. I am sure the health insurance companies will not be waiting until Wednesday to

let their sentiments be known.

Why the hell should we be muzzled?

[Jakes Progress]

22. But, but. You might hurt his feelings.

The way you hear it around here, you would think that our president is just a big old baby. They tell you not to have your say because it will make him feel bad.

Well. I hired him, and I intend to let him know what I do and do not want him to do.

See. It's America dude. You know. Land of the free. Elected officials. Sheesh.

[avaistheone1]

26. If he can't take the heat, he should get the hell out of the kitchen.

Obama needs to fish or cut bait.

Is he going to come out and support a strong public option or not?

No one knows from day to day where he his going on the public option. So he is not winning many hearts and minds on this issue.

[Synicus Maximus]

18. Let me get this right.

Congress has not actually passed a bill yet and President Obama has not yet actually outlined what he will and will not accept, and you want us not to discuss something that is not even been totally, or even mostly clarified yet? How silly. Why wait for facts? It's so much more fun to rail against things as they may be. Or not.

[Jakes Progress]

25. So when Congress was

considering war with Iraq, you thought you had better just sit tight and not say anything until they had actually committed troops.

I guess you sat on your fingers back while they planned on how to vote for Civil Rights. And why rush to condemn bush until we knew exactly how many died in New Orleans.

Yeah, Best just to watch American Idol and wait.

[quantass]

20. Cenk said it right in that keeping cool and Laying back is precisely the WRONG thing...

Doing so brings on complacency...The fear is that you rely too much on "Hope" that no action is taken when there stands a chance that Obama may be leaning in the wrong direction..Presuring and making your anger felt prior to Wednesday helps convince and shift his attention away from potential dark places if he was looking at such in the first place. Maybe he is already in the right direction but like you said, we dont know until Wednesday. But from the hints there is absolutely nothing wrong with FINALLY waking the sleeping beast that a surprising democrat has and making it known as a group.

The democratic party has long just laid over and played dead for too long and its time to make the president aware of what YOU want done. If Obama is looking in the wrong direction its up to his constituents to MAKE HIM A GREAT PRESIDENT by forcing him to do your bidding.

One thing we've seen about Obama is he likes to make people happy...to the detrminent of his own party since he is eager to appease the right...And so vocalizing your anger about an issue by all accounts will make Obama more concerned about making you happy too. Sure he doesnt have much to lose by making his left party angry since we have no where else to go but he could very much demoitivate his base to not come out and vote him back in if he doesnt listen to them which from all accounts scares the hell out of Obama (he's looking like a politician more and more these days).

[freddie mertz]

24. We have to wait, but we also have to fight for what's right.

Surely you understand that.

[Jakes Progress]

27. Nothing will be decided Wednesday.

Shades of gray. Plausible deniability. Legal obfuscation.

[donheld]

33. But, but, but how will I get exercize

I can't wait and miss out on jumping to conclusions.

[dionysus]

45. well, laughing at stupid posts burns a lot of calories.

[dionysus]

34. i am with you 100%, welcome to DU.

:toast:

[asdjrocky]

49. There ya go making common sense.

And welcome to DU if I haven't all ready said hi :hi:!

[bahrbearian]

59. Why should be wait till Wednesday for something that should have been said a Month ago.

"I will veto any bill that does not contain a Strong Public Option, or is Single Payer."

[jesus_of_suburbia]

60. I agree... I don't know why all the talking heads like Keith are preparing us for disaster...

but why not wait until we hear it from Pres Obama?

BOTH sides (the eternal optimists and the eternal pessimists) need to calm down and see what Pres Obama tells us in his speech.


I do think this (healthcare) is the most important domestic issue Pres Obama faces in his first term.

And he told us he was going to spend his political capital on it. So let's trust he is going to until we hear otherwise from his mouth.

[riderinthestorm]

65. Because floating trial balloons is a time tested political device

and watching the reaction to such trial balloons is informative to TPTB.

Clearly there is a segment in the Obama Admin that wants to kill the public option. It's foolish to "sit back" and wait for them. I don't hold out a lot of faith that our "voices' matter much vs. the corporate $$ machine of Big Pharma, the AMA, the hospital corps etc. But there is a contingent that still wants to believe that their reaction matters. And it may matter. I don't know.

So honestly, a vocal reaction to this trial balloon may be the difference that grabs the Admin's attention. I'd never want to shut down anyone's voice that is trying to do right on the side of good vs. evil.