By the way-

[asdjrocky]

And by the way, I support our President and have hopes for a great bill with a good public option. I hope to be able to go to the doctor before I qualify for Medicare. My fucking fingers and my fucking toes are fucking crossed. I want my President to make me feel the way I felt on the day he took office.

Okay?

I’m on the record saying, Yes We Can and I have Hope. I have been indoctrinated.

But I do have something to say.

I find the doomsday, all is completely lost posts here just as silly as I find the goofy, common sense abandoning, cheerleader posts. Really, it's like watching teens argue over... whatever the hell it is that they argue over. Guns? Games? Girls? Hell, I just don't know.

Get real man. Democratic Presidents have had great victories and stunning defeats for the last three centuries. Want to talk Andrew Jackson? They've sided with us, and they've sided against us. Let's face the music, mostly against us. Kennedy wasn't perfect, his cock worked over time and he nearly walked us into war with Russia. Truman was a prick, who wanted something better in medical care, sure, but thought nothing of throwing everything he had at anyone willing to speak against him. Some of them were good honest people that spoke against Truman. LBJ had the Great Society and I think he’s one of the most underrated Presidents but there was the Viet Nam War and he often made people talk to him while he sat on the toilet taking a shit. And trust me, you don’t want to get me started on Welfare Reform or the Telecommunications Act.

The point is, real history is the only thing in the end that tells us who the real man is in the Oval Office. President Obama is flawed as we all are, as they all were, and one day we may find out that he chain smoked in the halls of the White House and snapped at the help. The real history might also show a great bill that changes our country for the better like Medicare or the Civil Rights Act. It. Could. Happen.

I’m going to narrow this down for you to it’s sharpest possible point so it’s quick and easy to understand.

Most of us here are liberals, we’re batshit crazy, left wing extremist, FDR New Deal believin’, baby kissin’, whale lovin’, tree huggin’ dyed in the wool LIBERALS! I know I am anyway. And I know this, Obama ain’t.

Don’t scream and yell. Don’t stand in protest. Stop holding your breath, it’s not going to do you any good. It’s just fine that our President is not a Liberal like us because he never said he was. National Review said he was. Rush Fatguy said he was and for crying out loud, Sarah and Joe thought he was Stalin. Or was it Mao?

Don’t tell me you believed those people.

I think of our President as an optimistic pragmatist, who wants to get things done but I have to think they will never be done in quite the manner that will satisfy me, or most of us around here. And that’s okay, really, it is. He is twice the President the alterative would be, and as much as some people around here want to make him out as another version of Bush, or Carter or even FDR do yourself a favor, and forget about it. He is who he is. If we were looking at John McCain every time they played Hail to the Chief, we wouldn’t even be talking about Health Care, we’d be drawing up plans to bomb Iran.

But by all means, keep writing those ridicules cheerleading posts and the gloomy doomsday posts. Life here is more fun with the high, frantic voices. Hell, I can blow a Saturday night in two shakes just watching you clowns argue the finer points of policy, and let’s face it, I don’t have much of a social life.

I’m keeping my fingers crossed that Obama will blow my socks off Wednesday night. I’m priming my spine for tingles. If he does the right thing by our country and shows some real backbone it will still not be good enough for some of you. Just as, if he bows to the corporate masters some of you will still be on his side. It’s true.

Either way, this is going to be great fun for someone like me, a guy with an internet connection, and not much to do on a Saturday night.

[treestar]

1. I'm wondering if the same people hated Clinton as much as they

hate Obama, when Clinton didn't get anything through.

There isn't any cheerleading. This is DU. Some of us are just defending the Democratic President from supposed Democrats. Like doing it against crazy repukes isn't enough.

[asdjrocky]

3. I didn't hate Clinton.

Not at all. But I sure didn't agree with a lot of his policies. Way too moderate for me.

But that's my point, the people that are attacking, while being silly sometimes, are also in their hearts sincere. Many times I see people just pointing out the obvious and they get attacked for attacking the President.

Here's the problem, the truth is the truth and no matter what we say, it will win out in the end. I guess I could have made my point better, lol, and much quicker.

[mitchtv]

15. Nope , no cheerleading.... whatsoever

like you accusing critics of being "supposed" Democrats. Grow up, some of us are Democrats that don't drink the bipartian KoolAid being passed . sounds like a fan club to me

[treestar]

16. So you were as angry at Clinton, right?

And didn't vote for him in 96. Who did you vote for?

[mitchtv]

17. put it this way, as a Dem I wrote in McCarthy in "68.

Clinton got my vote, cause I fell for " You have nowhere to go" bullshit.Not again, ever. If we get nothing, why did I vote Dem?

[RandomThoughts]

2. Maybe you see things differently then me.

I don't see the debate as a conservative or liberal debate. Sure there are social economic factors that could be put on one side or the other.

The issue is who decides how things happen and for whose benefit. In that it defines what people are, by what they choose to believe is best and the actions they take.

:shrug:

As far as Cheer leading posts or doomsday posts, I don't see them like you do. I think they fulfill obligations to point things out. If someone was just cheering something without making a bigger statement or argument you might be right. But if the cheer leading is to get people to think on things, that is not cheering a point of view, but showing other points of view.

People said Bush's wars were wrong, part of pointing that out was not just to get people to vote against that resolution. It was so that people now today know they were told, it was explained and they had a choice. If nobody had mentioned that Bush's wars were wrong, then only those that were silent would understand that things have consequences. By some people mentioning that some people are making mistakes. Those people that did not think about the issue, when they then see the consequences, if their view occurred, might understand better and might even be able to see that they did not listen to other arguments at that time. Although I think things will work out for the better, it is too obvious not to, because there is no sense to destruction paths.

After thinking about the structure of systems, you can understand where they come from. If people know those things then they know where they side, and they might make a better choice, and if they don't make a better choice at least they made a choice. And as people they govern live with the ramifications of their choice, they will also have to live with their choices.

I think things will work out, I think it is just too plain to see for it not to work out. But that also contains how I think on things. People that see and think differently might see things different. And people should do what their heart and mind feels is best, but they should also know what the choices are.

[asdjrocky]

4. I don't think I really see it as a conservitive liberal debate.

I see us a more liberal and perhaps I see the President as more moderate. I do think in the end there is only one truth though.

I did love you well thought out response and can find little to disagree with. I love the information that comes within them and yes, I've learned to see patterns and the way things happen by reading the words of the many smart people here. I don't want their words or their opinions to stop. But we have a slight disagreement on the tone I think. I see a few regular people here who easily fit into one of the two categories, but most do fall in the happy middle range.

Much like our President.

[asdjrocky]

5. kick

[Jennicut]

6. asdjrocky, you put into words what I have been thinking lately!

I know everyone loves LBJ, FDR, JFK...but they were flawed, real people who made mistakes at times.
Clinton is slammed here all the time and yet he brought some stability we needed after Reagan/Bush for 12 years.

I want Obama to succeed. I know he has his faults too. I wish he would fight harder and be less wishy washy. I don't feel like being a cheerleader all the time. But neither do I feel like just giving up on him after 8 months either. He is all we have right now. And being gloomy all the time is NOT good for someone like me. :)

[asdjrocky]

7. And I think you hit the nail on the head too Jennicut.

I hate constant gloominess and at the same time I find myself to be too much of a cynic to be a constant cheerleader. So I try to find a middle, and that's what I think our President is doing.

[saltpoint]

8. Goddam yes. Recommended.

Fiercely.

[asdjrocky]

9. There's that ol' coot!

Morning to you my good friend! I trust this Sunday finds you well and contented.

[saltpoint]

11. Not surprisingly, asdjrocky, you're making good sense and kicking this

Sunday morning off just right.

Keep right on kickin' it downfield for the home team!


:thumbsup: :hi:

[Honeycombe8]

10. You make sense, Grasshopper. nt

[asdjrocky]

12. Where's the pebble?

[asdjrocky]

13. .

[Spazito]

14. Well said!

:thumbsup: