Fuck the Pundits! They don't know Shit!

[FrenchieCat]

They just think that they do.

I'm so fucking exhausted by their tired ass speculation,
this time on the health care debate,
till I don't even know what to do.

Why do they believe that their interpretation of everything uttered
is accurate?

I'll Remind you that these are the same folks who have been talking about Obama being a failure
at whatever he was doing since 2007!

Remember how they "knew" Iraq had WMDs?
Same pundit who were so damn delighted and impressed by "Shock and Awe"
and kept talking about how Bush had great "Resolve".
How they kept reporting on Terrorist Alerts every five minutes with serious faces?

During the election, they "Knew" that McCain's chance in Pennsylvania were good,
because White people surely wouldn't vote for the Black Candidate! And of course,
they never let us forget that this candidate was Black.....cause otherwise, we might forget!

Remember these were the great soothsaying pundits who talked about what a great speaker Palin was,
and how she represented "Regular" Americans, and how that would propel McCain to a win.

They are the same exact pundits who said Clinton had this on Super Tuesday.

That Hispanics wouldn't ever vote for the Black Guy!

yes, these are the same folks....and they are doing what they do as usual;
spooning out shit that they want us all to swallow.

So just say it with me; Fuck the Pundits and the speculative naysayers.
We only have to wait a short while to once again know that they were all wrong.

[Peacetrain]

1. I hear that...

[countingbluecars]

2. Amen! n/t

[CaliforniaPeggy]

3. Fuck the Pundits!

K&R baby, K&R!

[HowHasItComeToThis]

10. PUNDITS EQUAL PROPAGANDISTS

[Aramchek]

4. if these assholes' opinions actually determined reality, Obama would not be President

but He is.

so Chuck Todd and all his cronies speculation amounts to jack shit.

Listen to the Man who won.
Despite their speculations...

[Peacetrain]

5. You know what I am thankful for.. that they were not working with us in the Primaries..

or general election... The first bump in the road and these guys would have been running for the woods.

[TreasonousBastard]

6. Which is why nobody listens to them...

except people around here who then endlessly talk about them.

[Cha]

7. They've been doing this for the

9 years I've been paying attention..why the fuck are they going to change now.

Not on their own..they will have to be driven out on a rail.

[boobooday]

8. FUCK the pundits!

:grr:

[liberalmuse]

9. Some very wise advice posted earlier...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8633101

[FrenchieCat]

22. Wise indeed!

[Downtown Hound]

11. Fuck the pundits and the speculative naysayers

I don't understand why we don't protest the media more often. We all complain about them, but we never make them a target. I'd love to see how CNN or Faux would react if they all showed up to work one day and found their studios blocked by angry protesters calling them propaganda whores. They would have to report on why all those protesters were there and why they got arrested. Of course they would try and spin it to their favor, and they would probably succeed for awhile. But if we kept on doing it, it would get people talking about it. And the more people talk about it, the more pressure they would feel.

And I'm all about applying pressure to these fuckwads.

[lyonn]

17. Nice Idea!! nt

[JanusAscending]

12. TELL IT FRENCHIE !!

All of America needs to realize this!! Sadly, especially here on DU!! You go girl!

[HughMoran]

13. On top of that, Obama plays with pundits like a cat plays with a mouse

He repeatedly throws out information just to watch the pundits run with it. It would be funny if a high percentage of the reactionaries here on DU didn't also run with it.

[lyonn]

14. Nice reminder how biased and right wing the entire media is

All of them acting like they have all the answers to "Obama's" problems.

Yesterday on probably c-span books notes they had the author T.R. Reid discussing his book "The Healing of America." He was one of the Best representives of universal health care. He was pure inspiration and common sense with a sense of humor. Gotta get that book. Course he makes so much sense that if this health care reform is basicly no reform it will be totally depressing. Heath care is a now or (never) years away issue. The repubs are using all their weapons, talking idiots and the national treasury to defeat real reform. Look at all the insurance companies that will have to lay off people - that is what we are up against.

[treestar]

16. Did you see T.R. Reid's five myths about health care in other countries?

In the Wash. Post. Very good. I've sent it to my freeps already. Can't wait to see how they dodge and twist the facts and points in it.

[lyonn]

19. Didn't read it but good to hear it is out there in the Post

I've never heard of him. I liked his one comment about a Professor of Economics that was helping him with this book and Reid asked if he would like to join him (co-author I think) on this book. The Professor declined and said that he would get too technical and that journalist are better at getting the message out to the people in simpler language.

[treestar]

15. Exactly. No longer listening to any of them, left or right

Their job is to stir up shit.

Too many DU posts letting them do it.

[firedupdem]

18. K&R!

I turned the tv right off once the president was done speaking. I don't need their recap! I know what the hell I heard directly from the president's mouth!

[Gregorian]

20. They know how the machine works. But the machine is broken.

They think inside of the box. But what's inside of the box doesn't work.

They're context is the wrong one. The one the corporations force on us. Not that it's all the corporation's fault. We enable them. Most Americans don't even know what's going on, let alone why.

The pundits should know better.

The basic problem is that universities teach the corporate information. History is the history of war. At least the general undergrad history. School is a weeding out process to prepare the student graduates for the corporate world. Especially journalism. Well, actually engineering. But I know a lot of engineers who learned how to THINK. You don't get through engineering without working the problems and then STEPPING BACK and looking at the whole picture.

It's broken, and pundits aren't the ones who will fix it. Progressives are. Not that there weren't any conservative framers. But I argue that the country would have been better without them. In fact, it almost didn't happen because of them.

[LooseWilly]

36. What kind of freak university did you attend?

"universities teach the corporate information"?? I don't know about you, but the university I attended taught corporate information in business classes... but was full of every other source of information. Surely you're not going to call 'Peace & Conflict Studies' "corporate information"??

And, in my experience, very few engineers wanted to be bothered with "whole pictures"... but rather they wanted to be trained for the corporate world.

Sure, journalists get some things wrong, but they get some things right. Just because a journalist says something doesn't mean you have to believe/agree. Is this not obvious?

Your whole post is staggering in its skewedness. I am more than a little agog.

[Gregorian]

47. I'm speaking from what I've seen.

UC Berkeley journalism students grabbed a microphone and parroted the news on their radio station. I complained many times. It was sickening. And by news I mean the crap that passes as news. No journalism at all. Just grab a microphone and blab. They were being prepared as talking heads.

As for engineering school, I guess I'll just let that one go. I can't really put my finger on it. Except that the FBI was waiting for us when we graduated. High speed drug boat design and whatnot. I remember. The corporations also lined up in wait. But it went beyond that. Maybe I just despise the Socratic method. But

You know, your response doesn't warrant the effort. I went to a good university and got a degree in engineering. My experience was that it was geared toward preparing people for work, not for thinking.

[LooseWilly]

51. I began my studies in Engineering as well.

At UC Berkeley, in fact. I agree with your assessment of the engineering program as a training ground rather than geared toward teaching "critical thinking". An engineer with a grasp of human interactions, politics, and so on is more a reflection of that engineer as a person than as a product of his/her education.

And I have many times listened to KALX news, only to later find the same story with the same wording in the newspaper. I leave you to judge the validity of any news found in a newspaper for yourself... but I find that tv news, blog news, magazine news, online news... all news that I haven't gathered with my own eyes and ears, traces back eventually to newspaper/magazine reporters. You can shop around for the "slant" of the frame... but in the end I find I reach the same "picture" of facts.

In any case, I changed from Engineering to English... and along the way I saw that the University had a lot more to offer than training. The problem, as is usually the case, was that the "customers" (the students) tend solely to be shopping for job training.

That is why you are well trained, gainfully employed and frustrated by newspaper-issued news... while I am happy to get my news from the newspapers because I can filter the news from the bias, and I am thusly able to monitor the bias of the editorial staff and the business-plan-architects at the same time that I'm getting the news- but I am unemployed.

[Gregorian]

80. That's a switch.

From engineering to English. I am not your typical guy. I did not go to school to get a job. And in fact, I quit working altogether around 1994. I did ride the real estate wave. But not for money. I was looking for beauty. Which I didn't find. But the money sure came in.

The reasoning behind why I feel the way I do regarding the university system is partially due to their punitive system. Probation. What is with that? In fact, I argue that it's just those students who are below passing who need the most help. Not probation. And that speaks volumes about how we "educate". It's a machine just like any other corporate operation. Money equals time. I had a hard time in school. I literally burned math books. But I made it through. But not not without massive pain. I wanted spoonfeeding. That is a no-no in the university system. They want people they can tailor to the working world. The boss doesn't want to babysit. He wants an independent worker to produce results. I understand that value. But I also believe that we don't all learn the same way. And that helping is not spoonfeeding. I came out of college with far less than I could have had were I to have had some help. Maybe it was my lack of cash, or just inability to take the time to find a good tutor. But that is the solution to the problem I faced. But short of going outside the system, what is wrong with actually teaching? I hate Socrates. Just give us the god damned answer. Then later we can learn to think on our own. Something like that. Maybe I'm too slow for the system. That doesn't mean I'm stupid. We need to incorporate all kinds into our system in order to provide a colorful array of thinking.

That's interesting about KALX. So you know just what I'm talking about. I loved that station. I expected more from their journalist news parrots.

Well, I've got a house to build. Time to get back on the tractor.

:)

[goclark]

67. Bingo!

I am so tired of looking at "suits" telling me how to think.

What does Pat B. know -- he is old and way out of touch with the world. They call him in to represent the thinking of "Republicans." He should have retired long ago. He is lost in the 50's.

Andrea MITCHELL needs to add her married name so that everyone will know how she got the job. At least Mika/Mica let's us know who her daddy is -- even though she had to get a job with Mourning Joe and pretend that she is fair and balanced. What is happening with the "romance" between the two of them?

Anderson Cooper needs to add his family name so that we will know how poor he is... :sarcasm:

When you look into it, they all had connections or they would not be there. They are not journalist, they are Pampered Children of the Rich.

[Gregorian]

78. Ha. I never knew that about Cooper.

Interesting. I never knew!

Now compare that to Amy Goodman.

[freddie mertz]

21. Is there an echo in here?

I'm seeing a lot "just shut up and believe" threads today.

[FrenchieCat]

23. Actually, this thread is about Pundits and the fact that they don't know shit!

If you've got a problem with this message, there's nothing I can really say to you.

[freddie mertz]

24. Yeah, but it seems to be part of a broader argument

That anyone who finds the recent statements from the president and administration regarding the P.O. to be less than fully supportive is, by definition, in some sort of thrall to deceptive "MSM pundits." Or else some sort of troll.

When, in fact, there is very good reason to interpret the language we have been hearing in precisely that way.

In other words, discussion seems to have nothing to do with the MERITS of the debate itself, but has descended into name-calling and what can only be described as incivil behavior.

[FrenchieCat]

28. I think I have made myself crystal clear,

but like the pundits, you can read into my OP whatever your little heart desires,
because after all, isn't that what your post is all about; analyzing what I am really trying to say?

Guess the pundits aren't the only ones suffering from Interpretive post-speculation.

I say go for it if it helps you get fired up enough to do something to assist in getting Health Care passed.

[freddie mertz]

31. If you do not want people reading and analyzing your words

Then why post them at all?

:shrug:

[FrenchieCat]

33. In being crystal clear, inpretations are not the point

as my message really simply just says "Fuck the pundits; they don't know shit".

You can "interpret" all you want, but it won't change the meaning of my post.

[LooseWilly]

38. In other words... "Accept, or fuck off"??

And that's really your problem with the pundits, isn't it? They need to do something to justify their existence... but you want them to just parrot the president and stop bothering you by inserting interpretations.

There will be no interpretations of what the White house says, that are not endorsed by the White house!!!

There you go... I give you permission to use this as your next meltdown OP.

And, just in case the president really does put some daylight between himself and the public option on Wednesday, you might want to set up an appointment with your doctor to get a prescription for some Xanax or something... (I presume, based on your unwavering devotion, that you do in fact have health insurance, and a doctor to make an appointment with).
:hug:

[FrenchieCat]

40. I have health insurance today, but I may not have it tomorrow.....

as long as I prepay the $1,200 a month and pay my $75 co-pay, I'm more or less insured.

Actually, you are speaking to one who would greatly benefit from the Public Option; I am Self employed, and so is my hubby....since 1986! I've seen the price of healthcare skyrocket.....

As for my unwavering devotion, just because I don't shit on the President because he doesn't
say exactly what I want him too each and everytime he opens his mouth, I don't call that unwavering, and in fact, if I were to post the letters that I have sent him, I'd be classified as one of the Obama haters for sure. The difference is that until all is done, I will continue to work for reform--I'm not into calling the game midway through the play. That's not fair to anyone, and in fact, promotes a defeatist attitude, that when I look back at history, never won any battles. Sorry if I don't walk around with a cloud over my head, and that I believe that Pundits know much less than most. I'm right now fired up and ready to go! You can Bite me for that, but see if I give a good fuck. :eyes:

[LooseWilly]

44. You would greatly benefit from a public option. So, if it's given up on for Snowe's sake, then what?

Will Obama's decision (if he makes such a decision) be the "right" one, even if it turns out to be to give up on the public option?

Will he be "right" no matter what he does? (I suppose I should word it: Will he do the "right" thing no matter what? ... all a matter of point of view when crafting the wording... but do the two mean the same thing?)

And no one's saying anything about calling a game midway through (midway through the play?... that is a sports metaphor that really should've been worked on a little more)... many are just trying to urge the "quarterback" not to call an audible, but instead go ahead with the play that he'd developed before the game (the public option).

And, as long as we're rolling with a football metaphor, what I think you are too busy cheerleading (thinking positive... whatever you want to call it) to notice is that MANY who thought they might be in the game are being left idle on the sidelines. The GLBT "players", on the bench. The Single Payer Advocates, on the bench. The Public Option Advocates... not on the bench yet... we'll see. It the Public Option advocates get benched, it sounds like that will bench the AFL/CIO. Maybe the Nurses too. Now I'm hearing rumblings that the Teachers might wind up being benched too. Van Jones was criticized, the administration "let" him resign... Green Jobs star, on the bench.

You can't yell at a "player" over a loss, when you "won't put that player on the field". It's intellectually dishonest.

And as for the pundits... they speculate. It's what they do. They usually provide the starting point, the evidentiary supporting details, and the end point of their analyses and speculations. Agree or disagree... but jumping up and down with rage because they're not saying what you want them to say... it seems a little childish.

I'd suggest you pick a particular pundit, something specific that he or she has said, and then provide a counter analysis.

In the meantime, fevered ranting about the media sounds ... well, inarticulate.

[FrenchieCat]

48. I'm tired of your endless directives......

You are one of the naysayers, which is why you sound so nasty in your post,
and the imagery as to the type of person that you might be is one bigass turn off!
And yeah....I may be dogging out the Paid media pundits,
but I'm not harrassing posters at DU,
like you are.

Look, I've got your viewpoint and you've got mine....

and yes, I repeat.....FUCK THE PUNDITS!
and I don't need to get specific,
as I have done that more than enough times in the past
right here at DU.

Now, stop stalking me. :scared:

[LooseWilly]

58. weak

I'd provide more detail... but you obviously don't like me.

No one likes me.

Dogs cross the street, rather than be seen near me.

Pigeons "hold it" rather than shit in my vicinity.


...

Stalk you?... is that your response when someone posts in your threads who doesn't agree with you?

I guess I do look at the news like a pundit...

[freddie mertz]

61. All texts are subject to interpretation. Any act of reading involves interpretation

I learned that in school.

Comp Lit 101.

And so I repeat: Those who do not want their texts interpreted should refrain from writing texts.

[Odin2005]

65. But the meaning the writer has is mind is the correct one.

[freddie mertz]

70. Ah, the intentionalist fallacy. An author may CLAIM one meaning

But that does not mean we have to BELIEVE it.

The author may not really understand the full implications of the text they have composed.

But even if they think they do, the fact is that once the text is out there, the author has essentially surrendered control of how it will be received.

(Consider, for example, the readings applied to Jimmy Carter's "malaise" speech.

I am sure that he did not INTEND his words to be received the way they were.

But once they were out there, he was no longer the only one in charge of them.)

Also you have to leave room for a little Freudian slippage.

When someone on another post pleaded to us to accept the "highest authority" of the president, I am sure he/she did not expect that to go down the way it did.

The word choices were unfortunate, but also, I think, inadvertently revealing of that person's deeper (and perhaps unconscious?) intentions.

In other words, in a free society, we may say things, but should be ready for a plurality of interpretations, based on the members of our audience, not to mention our own unconscious selves, have brought to the table.

[Odin2005]

72. The Person means what he/she means, everything else is vapid punditry and Postmodernist navel-gazing

Maybe that's just my Asperger's Syndrome talking, but I take what people say about their intentions at face value unless I have valid reason to question the person's sincerity (such as if the person is a habitual liar). IMO looking too hard for "deeper hidden meanings" is an opening for ones own projections and confirmation biases.

Carter mean what he meant in his "malaise" speech, "looking for hidden meaning" was just an exercise in right-wingers projecting their ideological beliefs and BS delusions on what said. The Wing-nuts were convinced that liberals were all "hate-America-firsters" and so projected that BS on Carter.

Suspiciousness over "hidden meanings" is what is bad for a free society.

[freddie mertz]

79. It's not about "deep hidden meanings"....

It's about straight up front, obvious meanings that the authors' then try to DENY.

People who can't use language may sometimes be sending "wrong" messages, but it is also true that unintended but still "True" messages get out.

It's like the Freudian slip, or the Freudian joke.

[Odin2005]

64. "Interpretive post-speculation." Ooh, can I steal that!

:)

[FrenchieCat]

71. Almost as good as "Pastorbaiting", hey?

:rofl:

Please take it!

[azmouse]

42. It's better than the echoing doom and gloom and Obama hatred

of soooo many others.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[freddie mertz]

62. Well guess what. I won't shut up.

And who the frak are you to think you have the right to tell me too, anyway?

Thanks for proving my point about the echo chamber by the way.

[asdjrocky]

25. Frenchie baby, I'm afraid you're holding back.

Just let us know how you feel.

[wisteria]

26. Bravo! n/t

[otohara]

27. Well Said

I blame them for Iraq -

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bleever]

30. Amen, sister.

:thumbsup:

[Usrename]

32. fuck the pundits

oh, and k&r

[quantass]

34. Prior to joining DU and watching MSM closer -- i never knew how bias the MSM truly was...

it truly shocked me to see how slanted the media is. They definitely dont lean left but they also exaggerate things and give half truths and speculate things in a way to make it sound like it is the truth and are very much only promoting stories that would generate ratings (e.g. starting wars, sex scandals, firings, etc).

I also noticed that if fox News starts screaming about sometihg long and loud enough then the rest of the media will pick it up and consider it important news of the moment. This is probably why the MSM seems to appear to be more supportive of the Right. Rarely do i see them support the left...very rare. It might be because the things the left want to support are "boring" (dont generate ratings and thus revenue). So Their hearts lean right even if their heads tell them to go center.

The MSM is a mess and i thank places like DU and other real sources for breaking through the junk

[Phx_Dem]

35. Fucking morons every one. What's really unfortunate is

that we can't even give a pass to the liberal pundits because they had their pants on fire and were lighting their torches along with the rest of them.

There isn't a sane or reasonable voice in the bunch. Nate Silver made a good TV pundit becuase he sees through the bullshit and he uses his exceptional mind to reason rather than incite.

[jenmito]

37. K&R. You're exactly right. n/t

[Nedsdag]

39. I cannot tell you the last time I watched cable television news.

If it isn't baseball or something else that can occupy my mind, the pundits can go to hell for all I care.

[CoffinEd]

41. Fuck the pundits

And the speculative naysayers! How was that?

[FrenchieCat]

43. That's it!

[Marsala]

45. I remember, in the campaign, Scarborough speculating, "Maybe we don't know anything."

One of the very few things he's been right about.

[Life Long Dem]

46. All the "facts" they had at the time of Saddam's hanging.

40 years of propaganda turns into "facts".

[bemildred]

49. Well said. nt

[butterfly77]

50. Exactly...

Obama needs to do this or that. What in the hell is he giving a speech for when all of the talking heads and pundits are reading his mind.

They keep on throwing out this garbage about there will be no public option as though we don't count and the birthers and other fruitcakes screaming and hollering means more than anything we have to say.

What I have been saying is where are the damn Dems I believe some in the senate and house don't like the fact that Obama is the pres,I sometimes think that they have been plannin all along with some of the other racist repubs..

[akbacchus_BC]

53. Frenchie, you are the only Obama supporter on here. I saw him live

giving his speech, He is fired up and readdy to go. Washington is not backing him but I so want him to make medicare go through. That would be his legacy, Hon! He has so many obstacles to overcome, it is unbelievable!

[FrenchieCat]

54. I am NOT the only Obama supporter here....Come on!

[akbacchus_BC]

55. Sorry, I should have said the only consistent supporter. My bad!

[FrenchieCat]

57. There are many of us......

Perhaps not as many late in the evening though..... :shrug:

[Rosa Luxemburg]

63. Me me!

I'm an Obama supporter! :bounce:

[Teaser]

69. they only outnumber us then because of sockpuppets.

.

[Odin2005]

73. Another Obama supporter here!

Fuck the pundits!

[akbacchus_BC]

56. No matter what the assholes saying, you all will get public option,

I felt for him today during his speech. No matter what he says or does, he is not going to appease the 25% people who dislike him! Today, he was fired up and ready to go, Go President Obama!

[Manifestor_of_Light]

59. anybody else remember Wall Street Week???

With Louis Rukeyser?

On PBS?

They would have some "expert" on that worked for some brokerage firm.

Blah de blah.

Dad said, "Those jokers don't know any more than I do".

And he was right.

This was long before Enron accounting and Wall St. bailouts, but the stock market has always been a crapshoot......

[Skidmore]

60. Frenchiecat, I wonder if there is a way to parlay that sentiment into

a huge ridicule of the clacking teeth class. For example, who the hell decided that Thomas Freidman was the only voice worth listening to for national security issues? Ditto, George Will and Krauthammer. Who decided that Pat Buchanan was someone who should be turned to for expertise in anything beyond how to divide a nation and serve racism and mysogyny as pablum? Who decided that newsreaders' needed to have opinions--or "reporters" for that matter?

Time to shove the Fourth Estate back into their box.

[OwnedByFerrets]

66. Unfortunately our congress critters evidently think

these pundits speak for american citizens. They seemingly listen to them as much as they do their corporate masters, and act accordingly.
What IS amazing about these pundits. I would BET that if you took a poll, most americans would vote that pundits are untrustworthy, but they still seem to suck in their bullshit. How stupid does that make those same people.

[Teaser]

68. FUCK THE PUNDITS COMIN' STRAIGHT FROM DA UNDERGROUND

a young preznits got it down, and he's brown...

[yoyossarian]

74. What could POSSIBLY be more WORTHLESS than these creatures???

Great tee-shirts, buttons and such at
Laugh City!


President Evil Online
has risen from the grave!

[Odin2005]

75. The corporatists that pay them to manufacture opinion.

[FrenchieCat]

76. And they smile as the lie on the Teevee!

I don't know how these folks can sleep at night!

[firedupdem]

77. Because they are heartless and they have theirs so they could

care less about anyone else. It's truly sickening.