Obama to Endorse Public Plan in Speech (WSJ)

[jefferson_dem]

Obama to Endorse Public Plan in Speech
By JONATHAN WEISMAN and JANET ADAMY

WASHINGTON -- President Barack Obama, in a high-stakes speech Wednesday to Congress and the nation, will press for a government-run insurance option in a proposed overhaul of the U.S. health care system that has divided lawmakers and voters for months.

White House officials say the president will detail what he wants in the health-care overhaul, as well as say he is open to better ideas on a government plan if lawmakers have them.

Democratic plans call for requiring most Americans to have health insurance. Failure to comply could cost families as much as $3,800 a year, according to a Senate proposal.

The president is likely to make clear that a government-run insurance plan, known as the "public option," will not provide a level of subsidies that give it an unfair advantage over private insurers, according to aides familiar with the speech preparations.

Insurers oppose the public option, saying it will lead to excessive government control of health care and could eventually drive them out of business. Republicans say they won't support an overhaul with a public option and liberal Democrats say they won't support one without it. "Are the stakes important? Of course," said White House spokesman Robert Gibbs. "It's a big audience, and the president will get a chance to lay out clearly for the American people what's involved for them."

<SNIP>

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125240777810092069.html

[MadHound]

1. We'll see,

If not, well that's it for my thirty five plus year run with this party.

[jefferson_dem]

3. So if Obama does not provide full-throated endorsement of the public option tomorrow...

You are leaving the Democratic Party?

We all have our tipping points, I guess.

[BeyondGeography]

6. No difference between Gore and Bush

How soon they forget.

[MadHound]

10. Yes, it is

Sorry, but when the man has overwhelming majorities in both the House and the Senate, when a Dem sits in the White House, we should get truly meaningful health care reform. Without a public option, all we've got is mandated health insurance for all and handing a monopoly over the the insurance industry.

I've been far too disappointed in the Democrats, dating back to Clinton and beyond. Nader might have been wrong with his "not a dime's worth of difference," but only by a couple of cents.

The time for excuses is over, and if Obama, Reid and Pelosi can't get this done, then they're absolutely worthless, as is the rest of the party. It would be better to hand it all over to the 'Pugs at this point because rather than having a long drawn out collapse, it would at least be relatively quicker under the 'Pugs and we can rebuild our country back sooner.

Does that sound desperately cynical, well after thirty five plus years that's where I'm at. And frankly I think that's where a majority of liberals are at as well.

Good luck trying to win anything ever again if the liberals and leftists in the party leave.

[TheWraith]

38. Well, good luck with that.

You'll find out that you're really, extremely alone out there. DU harbors the left-most of the left-most, and even most of us aren't bolting if there isn't a public option.

[MadHound]

47. Really?

Somehow I doubt it. More liberals have bolted the Democratic party over the past eighteen years than at any time prior to it. Most of them now show up as non-voters.

This trend started during the Clinton years and has continued since. After all the enthusiasm and spirit that Obama generated during his campaign, imagine what the crashing disappointment will be after he screws up health care reform. Say bye-bye to '10 and '12.

[CTLawGuy]

104. now I know who to blame for the rightward drift of our country's government!

Thanks!

[alcibiades_mystery]

13. Expect to see the word "robust" paired with a lot of pouting tomorrow

[dflprincess]

19. Do you suppose we'll get a definition of what "robust" means?

I doubt it - and just tossing the word around doesn't mean any more than politicians like Amy Klobucahr who say they want "affordable" health care, but never define what they mean by that.

[alcibiades_mystery]

33. Robust...R-O-B-U-S-T

Robust (adj) - Indicating the mid-game shiftedness of goal posts. Used especially by people in the midst of being proven wrong in order to rescue their wounded pride.

Robust.

[girl gone mad]

50. That's a bit of a double standard.

it seems like as long as Dems slap the label "public option" on any old piece of garbage reform you'll say the left was wrong. Talk about shifting in mid game. I guess it's fine when the White House does it.

[alcibiades_mystery]

55. I'm a leftist

The very notion that I'm some centrist Democrat supporting the White House against all lefty comers is so ludicrous that I can't stop laughing.

Certainly, there are minimum material requirements for whether we have good legislation. Unfortunately, too many here are far more concerned with being personally vindicated than they are with moving actual legislation that will help people. And that's how I've seen "robust" creep in as a function. Not in all cases, certainly. But in too many.

[girl gone mad]

60. I didn't say you were a centrist.

I said you have a double standard.

[alcibiades_mystery]

61. You said it

But you didn't demonstrate it.

[ipaint]

86. You worry about the people the bill will help and I worry

about the minimum 17 million it won't help. And that number will grow to include most people here if a strong as in the original definition -tens of millions in from the start, open to anyone, only option in exchange to be subsidized- isn't in the bill.
Health ins. premiums are set to double in a decade. Without the "strong" public option above to hold down costs unless your a trust fund baby or independently wealthy you too will be uninsured shortly.

[alcibiades_mystery]

88. Oh, I worry about the millions it won't help as well

That is why it is a long struggle. No rest for the weary, or the committed.

[ipaint]

90. Sorry

Another 35 year person here who has seen all this before, many times. There is no public option introduced so far that will hold down the cost of private ins. Nothing. Obama is vague for a reason.

This whole "will he or won't he" is meant to create confusion. It stops people from debating and discussing what a public option is, how strong it needs to be to be effective and lead to single payer. As a result of all this hyped up emotion and drama ANYTHING that emerges from congress that is called a public option will be considered a major victory. And it won't sink in until people see and experience the continued rise in rates along with punitive fines for not paying to subsidize insurance company profits and are no longer able to afford ins. Could take a few years to a decade.

Congrats, you've been played. You think this, what you see today is a struggle?
It's going to take people putting their lives on the line, getting beaten and worse, to take back power from the corporations.

You see, reform was taken off the table when single payer was.
All the rest of this is just theater.

As a country we can't afford health insurance companies. Simple. They need to go. Instead we choose another decade of death and destruction.
That's commitment alright, to the path of least resistance.

[alcibiades_mystery]

92. "As a country we can't afford health insurance companies. Simple."

Agreed.

Then again, you block any path to conversation by stating that anyone who sees the path differently is just being played. If you can engage in discussion without attempting to aggrandize yourself, we can work together. But it doesn't seem that that's what you want.

[ipaint]

94. Your being played.

Enjoy the struggle.

[alcibiades_mystery]

95. Enjoy giving up

:thumbsup:

It's "you're," by the way, O grizzled activist veteran...

[dflprincess]

73. How very clever

and as meaningless as calling any old program a "robust" option - without giving us the details about what makes is so.

[alcibiades_mystery]

77. Why thank you

Do we have a take a bow smiley?

[Teaser]

99. alcibiades_mystery wins

hands down.

[dflprincess]

17. I'm with Madhound and, like him, I have more than 35 years of party activism under my belt

but there comes a point when you have to admit that your abuser is never going to change. For me, selling us out to the insurance companies is the last straw as well. Which is not to say there aren't individual DFLers I might support, but voting for someone because there is a "D" after their name and they're the lesser of two evils or giving money to the party, not going to happen again.

[DJ13]

12. I have no doubt he will say he's for it

But thats just cover for his administration's expectation that it wont get passed by the Senate.

We will know he's not serious if he doesnt send Rahm into the Senate to straighten out the Blue Dogs like they did to force a vote for the war funding three months back.

[ruggerson]

20. I don't get why everyone here is hanging on this speech

There is no doubt he will make a strong stand for a public option.

As you say, what is far more critical than what he proclaims in a speech is whether he then twists arms in the ensuing days and weeks to actually get it done.

[MadHound]

27. Looking for those waffle words

Every president uses them, as has Obama.

Something along the lines of "I support a strong public option or some other plan that will serve to bring insurance costs down." Something like that. You hear those sort of waffle words, rest assured, we're not getting the public option.

I agree that we need to see how vigorously he actually fights for the public option, but at this point I'm looking to see if he gives up the fight before it has even begun.

[ruggerson]

28. he won't because it's already raised too much ire

he will make a very strong stand for it, so that politically he can say he tried.

He won't waffle at all. That would be politically disastrous.

[MadHound]

31. Letting this go on past the recess was politically disastrous,

I never underestimate the ability of Dems to do the utterly, politically disastrous because they've done it time and again.

We'll see, and we'll see if he fights for it.

[alcibiades_mystery]

21. The crumbling empire

DAY 1: "He's against it, and pro-corporate!"

DAY 2: "He may be for it, but he won't say it!"

DAY 3: "He may say it, but never forcefully enough!"

DAY 4: "He may say it in a high stakes speech to the nation and the full Congress, but he won't send Rahm to the Hill."

Lesson: It's axiomatic that Obama will fail us all, so it doesn't matter what he does.

This has been another lesson in Dementia and the Obama-hater Mentality.

[DJ13]

23. Denail aint just a river in Egypt

[jefferson_dem]

26. Ouch...

Nailed it.

[MadHound]

29. So, if we wind up with "health care reform" without a public option,

Or some utter bullshit like coops or triggers, will you finally admit that you're a foolish starstruck fanboy, or will you simply stammer, stutter and disappear for awhile?

[alcibiades_mystery]

32. I'm in for the long haul

All we have is struggle, not quick fixes.

It's sad that you behave this way.

[MadHound]

37. I'll stack my political creds up against yours any day of the week and twice on Sundays

Don't talk to me about that long haul shit, I've been long hauling since I was literally a kid in grade school, can you say the same?

But there comes a point when you realize that despite all of the blood, sweat, money, time and tears, your voice really doesn't matter. In the long haul what matters with both political parties is how much cash you can put down on the barrelhead, and while I've donated significantly over the years (including those days when it was a question of giving to the party or eating), my money is simply paltry compared to just one insurance company puts down on one presidential campaign.

So who do you think that Obama is listening to the closest, those of us who've gone back to the Democratic well time and again, only to come away disappointed, or to his corporate backers?

Thus it comes down to a point in your life where you realize that the struggle is truly fruitless, and that it is time to move on. It's not like we on the left are advocating for single payer, though that would be nice. No, we're asking for a true public option. If he waffles on this one, then for many on the left it will mean that the struggle is over and it's time for us to move on from the Democratic party.

Which leaves you to answer the question about whether or not you will admit that you're nothing more than a starstruck fanboy if a true public option isn't part of health care reform.

[alcibiades_mystery]

44. I didn't even bother reading past the subject line

You're making this about me and you. It's supposed to be about people.

[MadHound]

53. You're the one who was, by insinuation, accusing me of not being in this for the long haul

You don't like that, oh well.

And if you had bothered to read past the subject line you would have seen that my post wasn't mostly about you, but about people.

[alcibiades_mystery]

57. Then you opened poorly

Common sense should tell you that nobody listens after being insulted.

[ruggerson]

64. Then why did you just post an OP insulting people?

and dragging this discussion into another thread.

[alcibiades_mystery]

68. I insulted people in my OP? Who?

Really? I said I thought this PLACE was funny.

:shrug:

[MadHound]

67. Then why insinuate that somehow I'm not in this for the long haul,

And that by extension I'm a quitter? You're the one who opened poorly.

I'm done with this now, you've gone into gradeschool mode and somebody has to be the bigger person and drop this.

Bye:hi:

[alcibiades_mystery]

69. I did no such thing

You're being paranoid and silly.

[Parker CA]

40. Right there with you, alcibiades!! Persistence. Obama will throw the last punch and win this. nt.

[MadHound]

41. And if we don't get true public option in the final bill, will you be right there with AM

Admitting that you too are a starstruck fanboy?

[alcibiades_mystery]

45. You're being abusive

[Parker CA]

49. Bitterness manifests in strange ways. Don't let it bother you. I sure don't let it bother me. ;)

[Parker CA]

46. If anything, your 35 years have made you very bitter. That's a shame. When we do get a public

option will you admit that you're a naysaying quitter?

[alcibiades_mystery]

48. Seriously, we don't need this fighting either way

[Parker CA]

52. When someone who knows zero about me calls me out, I'm going to respond. We will get a public

option and this will all be forgotten relatively soon. Regardless, this is not the time to give up or begin wavering. Obama knows what he's doing, and he's going to knock it out of the park tomorrow night.

[MadHound]

62. If you don't want that to happen,

Don't pile on insinuating that I'm not in this for the long haul. I don't appreciate people who pile on. Don't like that, oh well. I've dealt with the "bully boy" faction around these boards for years and I'm not going to stop now.

[Parker CA]

65. I don't appreciate quitters. To each their own. Goodnight.

[alcibiades_mystery]

66. Nobody was insinuating anything

You said "What are you going to do then, fanboy?" and I said, essentially, soldier on. Long haul. Get it? The fact that you even read that as an insinuation of anything - after first laying out a ridiculous stream of insults - suggest that you have your priorities way mixed up. People, MadHound. It's not a game. It's about people.

[ruggerson]

75. Yes, it's about people and their health

not some silly emoticons rolling on their backs as you insult and insinuate that other posters are being disingenuous.

People, alcibiades_mystery. People.

[alcibiades_mystery]

79. It is about people

More folks should allow that to eat away at their cynicism and axioms.

[JTFrog]

101. "If not, well that's it for my thirty five plus year run with this party"

Did you not insinuate quitting all on your own? You're gonna get pissed because someone took your words literally?

Bitter is a nasty little pill to swallow.

[ruggerson]

34. Do you honestly think we are going to get a public option?

I don't know how it will turn out.

If we get one, I will be happily surprised.

If we don't, I will suspect that Obama is aware of that fact before he gives the speech, wherein he voices strong support for it.

[alcibiades_mystery]

42. I think we're going to get something that will help millions and millions of people

Will it be a public option? Maybe. I think Obama is working for and toward that.

I don't know much about your posting because I don't recognize the username, but in general, a lot of people have said he must speak up for the public option, and a lot of people doubting he would. It seems disingenuous to me to now say, "Oh well, even if he does, it's only because he knows it won't pass." You can't decry the supposed non-use of the so-called bully pulpit on one day, and on the next say, "Oh, well, but that's all a feint anyway."

I don't make predictions. Too many here do. I'm happy if Obama gets up and tries to argue for this thing, and stakes his claim on that, and I don't immediately assume it's a trick if he does. It's a dishonest stance, quite frankly, especially when so many were saying even days ago that he wouldn't. It's dishonest. You strike me as fair enough to see that.

Will a public option pass? That's up to the Congress. Could this have been handled more effectively? Sure. This is a complicated and massive struggle. It's not easy, and anyone expecting it to have been is, quite frankly, stupid. Let's make the case and go to the mat and not assume that we're being sold out at every turn.

[ruggerson]

54. I'm glad he's using the bully pulpit

but, using history as a guide, I don't think what we hear in the speech is necessarily reflective of what may already be in the cards.

Politics is often smoke and mirrors, and Obama is a smart politician.

He knows he has to verbally make another strong stand for a robust option, and I would be truly surprised if he doesn't.

[alcibiades_mystery]

59. If something's already in the cards, then why even bother?

I've never quite understood this. It's like the old belief in destiny. We're screwed anyway, la-di-da. Good, get a little rowboat and stop bothering people. It's gonna go the way it goes anyway, no?

[ruggerson]

70. absolutely

It's going to go the way it goes. Maybe I'm just cynical, but I don't think the ways of Washington have been changed because we took over. Obama, imho, already has a fairly clear idea of what he can get and what he cannot. The speech is for the tv audience. Not for Congress.

[alcibiades_mystery]

72. OK, then

La di da.

[ruggerson]

74. sorry

I took you seriously there. My apologies.

[alcibiades_mystery]

76. Oh, I'm deadly serious

There is no other response to "It's all fixed anyway," nor is there any possible rejoinder to "He's merely speaking to the people of this country." So I offered the only serious response possible, and I did so with great sincerity.

[ruggerson]

78. I repeat

sorry I took you seriously.

[alcibiades_mystery]

80. Running out of juice, huh?

Ah, well.

[ruggerson]

84. Forgive me

I don't understand someomne who is engaged in a putatively sincere discussion with folks, while concurrently writing pejorative OP's about those very folks with his other hand.

You're right. I don't have the energy for it.

[alcibiades_mystery]

87. I was sincerely noting a trend in the discourse

I'll admit to also finding it a particularly amusing trend. Pejorative? Well, it's all in the eye and energy of the beholder, I suppose.

[dflprincess]

71. Then it will have to be something better than the public option

as outlined in HR3200 - that is nothing but a gift to both the insurance and credit card companies (so people can cover the large copays and deductibles the bill allows). The public option in this POS won't even start up unitl 2013 and the CBO says only 10 million people will coverd by it by 2019.

The only thing that would help "millions and millions" of people is Medicare to all, but Obama and (most of) Congress are too beholden to their corporate masters to even discuss that.

Passing a bill that's main point is to protect the insurance companies can be called reform but that doesn't make it so.

[Uzybone]

39. yep, exactly

the goalposts continue to shift. Its easier that way, because no matter what there will be something for the naysayers to whine about.

[girl gone mad]

58. Will we get a strong public option or not?

In the end, that's the only thing that really matters. All of the nice speeches and supportive statements are about as useful as a last minute field goal kick when your team is down by two touchdowns.

[ProSense]

81. .

(click me)

[scheming daemons]

56. Moving the goalposts.... again

[fadedrose]

63. Whither thou goest, maybe a lot of us will go...nt

[joeycola]

82. His actions-or inaction on what he says will be key.

[Jennicut]

2. Baucus's plan should be discounted by the media as crap.

No other Dems support it but Baucus's buddies in the gang of six and some blue dogs in the House. No Rethug will support health care reform.

[jenmito]

8. Even 2 of the 3 Repubs. in his "gang" don't/won't support his plan.

That's why he's giving them 'til 10am tomorrow morning to let him know if they will or not. I think he finally realizes they won't support it. And then he'll just go along with the Dems.-probably the Blue Dogs.

[Jennicut]

11. Its pathetic and yet the media was hyping a plan all day that barely anyone in

Congress likes.

[jenmito]

16. I know. CNN is STILL hyping the Baucus "compromise."

It's DOA and they KNOW it.

[TomCADem]

4. K &R

[jenmito]

5. K&R. I believe he will do that judging by all the defending of the public option Gibbs was

doing today in his daily briefing.

[TeamJordan23]

7. But Drudge told me last week that Team Obama retreated on the public option.

Oh yeah, looks like it was just more fluff from the Right Wing.

[femmocrat]

9. REALLY?

This is entirely contrary to what the talking-heads have been saying tonight. I was about ready to put my head in the oven after watching KO tonight!

[Jennicut]

14. Oh, KO is just wringing his hands and is a worry wart.

Flipping a bit out. I don't doubt that Obama will endorse a public option. I don't think he will threaten a veto without it but he will put it out there tomorrow night. If I am wrong then I guess my intuitive sense is off...LOL.

[tridim]

25. I think KO is holding the President's feet to the fire.

And I don't think he's worried.

It's just Keith's style.

[Jennicut]

30. I think its both. And I have no problem with it. KO fights the good fight for us every night.

[Cha]

15. "High Stakes"? TPTB are not going to

give up their power control to the money spigot of insurees, lightly.

[Thrill]

18. "Democratic plans" Typical Bullshit from the this RW Murdoch Rag

Nevermind the plan in the HELP committee or in the House. Just take Baucus' plan and make it out to be the plan Democrats are pushing. Do you not see the manipulation here?

[valerief]

22. We don't care what he says publicly. We want his private threats to the Congress

ensure that we get real healthcare reform.

But we won't. I know we won't. Banks will get richer. Insurance companies and Pharma will get richer. Who's next in line? Not us.

[Clio the Leo]

24. "he is open to better ideas on a government plan if lawmakers have them."

Mind games my friends, mind games.

"But I've got a question for them: What's your answer? What's your solution? The truth is, they don't have one. It's do nothing."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/07/obama-labor-day-speech-at_n_278772.html

[Cha]

35. I caught that..

May The Force of Light Be With The Obama Admin~

[Clio the Leo]

36. And you know "Barack Hussein" means.....

"Blessed Light" ;)

[Cha]

51. Really?

I've heard Blessed Handsome One. :) Light is better though.

[Clio the Leo]

91. yep, "light" is just another translation NT

[Becky72]

43. But will he draw a line on the sand?

If not, this WSJ article isn't news, as it reports that Obama will say the same thing he's been saying anyway.

[joeycola]

83. Spot on.

[ProSense]

85. "But will he draw a line on the sand?"

Obama Demands: The Bill I Sign Must Include Public Option (July 17)

"it reports that Obama will say the same thing he's been saying anyway."

Now, what was that?

[Becky72]

89. What he's being saying vs. What he once said

Different things.

He never again said the bill must include the public option. After that, he's been saying simply that he supports it, citing its advantages.

[ProSense]

93. "What he once said"

"He never again said the bill must include the public option. After that, he's been saying simply that he supports it, citing its advantages."

That would be reiterating a point he has already made, a point you tried to give the impression that he never made.

[Becky72]

103. If he had wanted to reiterate that we "must" have it, he would have said so

But he didn't.

[JTFrog]

102. Move that goalpost a little to the left...

err... back to the right...


err.... left...


right....


:eyes:

[Babel_17]

96. Regarding the goal posts

Any public option worth talking about has to have the power to negotiate good deals for its participants.

That's the sine non qua of it, the bottom line, whatever you want to call it.

Imo, and based on what I've read from reliable progressive sources, part of that involves having a critical mass of participants and it means being enabled to have the authority to negotiate the deals.

The only realistic compromise on this that I could countenance seeing being made is allowing the number of participants to ramp up over time. But that compromise would have to balanced by subsidies that would compensate for the lesser degree of the bargaining power of the public plan.

There are solid progressive analysts who have laid out the details of what the plan needs. It's what a lot of us, I'd say a majority, want, it makes sense, and I hope our party and government is listening and knows we are informed on this issue and that we are watching closely.

That's my 2 cents.

[and-justice-for-all]

97. So who is proposing the FINES?!

"Democratic plans call for requiring most Americans to have health insurance. Failure to comply could cost families as much as $3,800 a year, according to a Senate proposal."

Dem plans?? REALLY?? is that true or reich-wing hyperbole? WHy would they impose fines on people who can not afford health care to begin with??

[Teaser]

100. There are subsidies to purchase health care

up to 400% of poverty,

[jeanpalmer]

98. Oh of course he will

He couldn't say anything less.

But they seem to be making it up as they go along, speech by speech by townhall meeting. It's the craziest damn way to reform healthcare. Totally disorganized. No substantive plan. Just throw it out there and let's talk about it, and by the way, "I strongly support the public option....Did I just say I strongly support the public option????? And a robust one, at that???"

At a minimum, if this speech were a serious effort, I would expect Obama to explain how it is that other countries provide healthcare at much less cost, and could we adopt or partially adopt their systems. How is it that Britain pays about $2900 per person, while we pay about $6700. Because therein lies the secret to real healthcare reform. They're doing something different that makes healthcare affordable. And I thought that was the goal of healthcare reform -- make it affordable so everyone can have access to it.

Instead, we're going to get mandatory insurance at exorbitant prices without cost controls. Obama is writing a blank check to the insurance companies in the name of every American.

But he strongly supports a public option.......