If there isn't a strong public option in the final bill that lands on Obama's desk

[ruggerson]

should he veto it or sign it?

[Cant trust em]

1. It depends on what else is in the bill.

Thus begins the sound of my broken record.

[quiller4]

4. I agree with you. A public option is probably the least important

component of any bill to me. I am much more concerned with convering uninsured, offering sufficient subsidies for lower income individuals and families and ending discrimination on individuals with pre-existing conditions. If a bill does all that, I really don't care whether it has a public option or option with a trigger.

[Cant trust em]

5. To be fair, a public option would address all of those concerns. nt

[flaminbats]

8. it would address those concerns..only if it passes

if it doesn't pass, then some alternative actions that can pass are necessary. but an all or nothing option will not help those currently on the verge of bankruptcy.

Congress writes the laws, passes the reforms, and debates the details. therefore members of Congress like Richard Shelby, David Drier, and Susan Collins not Obama..are at fault.

IMO if it does pass and become law..Boxer, Feinstein, and Pelosi deserve the credit..not Obama! :dunce:

[Cant trust em]

9. So what part does the president play in getting legislation passed?

I don't want to put words into your mouth, but based on your post it seems like the President is a passive actor and only comes in at the end when the bill is ready to get signed.

[flaminbats]

11. exactly..

The President is a passive actor..signing or vetoing the legislation if Congress has the balls needed to pass it! :shrug:

but Obama is only showing courage and responsibility by addressing Congress..and by framing this debate.

the real responsibility of Obama is to enforce the laws or reforms passed by Congress, or fire those in his administration not willing to do so.

[Cant trust em]

15. I think there are the constitutional powers and duties of the executive branch

then there are the duties as the leader of his party and his ability to use the bully pulpit. I would prefer for him to take a more active roll in gaining support of congress, aka arm-twisting.

[flaminbats]

19. so would I!!

but I will not blame Obama if members of Congress don't pass a public option. Nor will I vote against members of Congress who supported a public option, but are unable to get the necessary votes to pass the legislation.

I will vote against members of Congress who oppose a public option, who vote against positive reforms..like allowing everyone to buy into benefits available for federal employees, or who vote to cut funding for a public option if it becomes law.

[quantass]

37. The PO does address the ballooning premiums by greedy corps. nt

[karynnj]

6. Exactly nt

[Egnever]

45. Agreed - making it impossible for me to vote on this poll

[Jennicut]

2. Why not, at that point, split the bill in half and pass some regulations

of the health care industry, like with pre-existing conditions.

[Sebastian Doyle]

3. Veto the piece of shit and keep sending it back until they get it right.

Because once he signs a shit bill, it's HIS failed policy. And obviously there's no way in hell they could get 67 votes to override a veto.

[karynnj]

7. What makes you think they will get a better plan after the veto?

If the bill has enough good in it, Obama would then be blamed for preventing the biggest expansion in government funding of health insurance.

[Sebastian Doyle]

10. He said he would be willing to be a "one termer" if that's what it took to pass health care reform

I don't believe that would be the result, if he signed a bill with a REAL, untriggered public option though. Oh sure the Repukes would talk shit about him, but that didn't stop him in 2008, did it?

On the other hand, if he signs a shit bill, he's going to lose the people who elected him. Anything with a corporatist mandate in it, for example.

[karynnj]

12. That assumes that Congress gives him the bill with the real, untriggered public option

If that happens, of course he will sign it.

[Sebastian Doyle]

13. Which is exactly why he needs to veto anything less than that

and keep doing so until they send up the right bill. They'll never get 67 votes to override him, so really, Obama has the ultimate power here, as to whether actual reform is passed or not.

[Cant trust em]

16. If 12 million people with pre-existing conditions could get covered

by private insurance, would that not be significant?

[Hell Hath No Fury]

27. Not if they can't afford it.

:shrug: Ten years ago the most affordable insurance I could get with one pre-existing condition was $320 -- it was simply not doable for me.

Making them take pre-existing conditions or stopping them from dropping people is a nice thought -- but is meanless unless the PRICE is addressed.

And that is where a public option would make or break this bill.

[Cant trust em]

28. There has to be a pot of people who would be covered by

employer paid insurance who are being denied by pre-existing conditions.

[karynnj]

21. That assumes that Senators and Congressmen

can be moved. If they could be moved then, they can be moved now. Obama might have the ultimate power of NOT letting "actual" reform pass - he does NOT have the ultimate power to insure a specific bill passes. There is no reason to assume there will be a steady stream of bills until he signs one. In 1993, no bill was ever voted on and sent to the President.

[Milo_Bloom]

14. It does far more harm than good w/o the public option.

[grantcart]

17. A rare moment of near unanimity in DU Land

[Cant trust em]

20. For better or worse, DU has made the public option the sword they will die on. nt

[Uzybone]

18. He will sign whatever bill passes

because he will be instrumental in getting the bill through Congress. Why would anyone would think a democratic president would veto a bill of this profile passed by a democratic House and Senate? Geez.

[polichick]

22. There's no way he will veto it. nt

[MNDemNY]

23. Veto it before the ink is dry.

and then take a shit on it.

[TheKentuckian]

24. I wouldn't advise a veto of anything that realistically makes things better for most people

So, I'd accept mediocre but my fail line is there at Mad Max's bill. I think the turd could be polished up to be tolerable but it ain't there now.

[lumberjack_jeff]

25. I support house progressives who promise to vote against a no-public option bill.

Obama should sign the bill that congress presents, but he should be twist more arms before that point.

[Cant trust em]

29. This is the best statement that I've seen on this whole subject.

Thanks for the clearheadedness.

[Faryn Balyncd]

26. K & R - The SILENT "Unreckers" are trying to kick this poll off Greatest Page.

[peace frog]

30. VETO

Carry on.

[valerief]

31. He should veto it unless it's got Single Payer instead!!!!! nt

[blindpig]

35. Yes k&r

[RoccoR5955]

32. K & R He should veto the hell out of it.

WE THE PEOPLE,
NOT
Them, the corporations!

[bigwillq]

33. Veto, Veto, Veto (nt)

[Blasphemer]

34. Veto unless it regulates the insurance industry out of profitability

But the chances of that are NIL so... public option or bust.

[WI_DEM]

36. He vetos a bill which includes many needed reforms except public option

I oppose that idea and it would defeat his presidency.

[truedelphi]

38. He has to please his Corporate Masters

I will eat my shorts were he to actually veto a bill. Thsi past weekend, the banners all around him at the Union meeting were soemthing to the effect of "Health Care Reform NOW!"

Not "Single Payer" Not "Puiblic Option"

Simply "Any ol piece of legislation will do"

So that means he wants to pass something anything NOW!!

And he spent the whole summer asking his opponents what he should do. Equivalent to a quarterback stopping five yards short of the goal post to ask the tackles from the opposing team what to do with the ball.

IT is clear to me - he don't want no stinking real reform. That would hurt his industry buddies.

[ProSense]

39. Obama is not going to have to veto anything

If it gets to that point and he is forced to, there will be a damn good reason: something went wrong.

Barring that, the bill that goes to Obama will be one that he can sign.

[IndianaGreen]

40. I see you are still selling Kool-Aid...

[ProSense]

42. Didn't that play out in the primaries? Try a logical and well-reasoned response. n/t

[CoffeeCat]

41. K&R!!

Important stuff...

[wroberts189]

43. VETO

[Laelth]

44. VETO n/t

:dem:

-Laelth