Bye-Bye, Single-Payer. HR 676 is now a moot point. Thanks, Obama

[Roland99]

Thanks a lot.


:eyes:

[tekisui]

1. You radical system changer.

[BlooInBloo]

2. Yep - just like he never campaigned to do.

[Roland99]

4. Which is why I liked Kucinich and Edwards over Obama in the Primaries.

[DIKB]

7. Kucinich and Weiner are my current faves

[DrToast]

27. Do you like unicorns, too?

[ProudDad]

59. No, I'd like the 20,000 per year

who will STILL die if Obama's weak "Plan" went into effect...

He still retains the evil leeches of the for-profit sick care system completely intact...in fact, more than intact, with tens of millions of new customers PAID OUT OF TAX DOLLARS!

You like killing poor people?

[johnaries]

55. Edwards didn't support single-payer, he supported a Public Option.

the only difference between Edwards' plan and Obama's was that Edwards supported a mandate and Obama did not. Now Obama has pretty much adopted the Edwards plan.

[Roland99]

66. Edwards' plan was one that likely would have led to a single-payer option.

http://select.nytimes.com/2007/02/09/opinion/09krugman.html

[onenote]

74. and how did edwards do with the voters?

[WI_DEM]

109. and Edwards was never going to give us a single payer system either.

[Becky72]

41. He didn't campaign on a mandate either

And now he's for it.

[Lyric]

77. He campaigned against mandates.

I guess we only judge him by what he did and did not "campaign for" when it works in his favor?...

[Thrill]

3. huh?

[Roland99]

6. Obama just said, in essence, he would not support a single-payer system.

Called it too radical.

[sandnsea]

12. He's been saying that every day for a year

Why are you upset or surprised?

[alcibiades_mystery]

16. No shit...the whole primary was about this very point

And Obama won.

[sandnsea]

43. Hillary didn't support single payer either

The primary was about mandated private insurance, which Hillary supported.

Funny that her supporters are now the ones screaming about paying the evil insurance companies. :crazy:

[ProudDad]

60. Yep, they're all capitalist stooges... (n/t)

[jeanpalmer]

48. Just because someone says something in a primary

isn't an excuse to do something stupid. Bush told us in the 2000 campaign he might have to take out Saddam, but so what?

[jeanpalmer]

46. Because he's wrong

.

[avaistheone1]

71. You are correct. But don't forget Obama was for the single payer, before he was against it.

[dionysus]

99. do you realize you're recycling a RW kerry smear?

[Thrill]

20. He ran for President for over a yr and never supported

Single Payer while he was running. BEcause there isn't a chance in hell it passes

[ej510]

70. You are correct my friend.

We were never getting single payer.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Roland99]

15. Like it matters on what he campaigned on? What is RIGHT?

Continuing to fund for-profit healthcare?


Hope you're happy with the insurance lobby.

[BlooInBloo]

21. *yawn*

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[d_b]

5. uniquely american ftw

I love being a serf, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

[Mojambo]

32. Uniquely American = Profit over EVERY SINGLE OTHER CONSIDERATION. n/t

[ProudDad]

61. You nailed it! (n/t)

[sandnsea]

8. Did you think it was going to pass? n/t

[Roland99]

10. It never got a chance

Have you ever read it? It's so simple and effective in how it would work.

[sandnsea]

18. Get the votes.

Any bill has a chance if you organize a campaign, get the votes and pass it.

[johnaries]

58. Then why haven't we been able to pass it in 40 years? nt

[Better Believe It]

114. Because it hasn't been proposed and voted on since Medicare was passed in 1965

[johnaries]

57. It never got a chance because it never had the votes. It was sent

to die in committee. Again.

[BlooInBloo]

13. But of COURSE it was going to pass! And it's only Obama standing in the way.

:rofl:

[Ken Burch]

23. Every poll showed single-payer with majority national support. Every poll

You're completely out of line to act as if it the people didn't want it.

Where do you get off acting do damn superior, anyway?

You don't do anything more for the party than anyone else.

[BlooInBloo]

26. Your poutrage is cute and all, but you had me at "hello".

[Ken Burch]

31. You're not entitled to take this derisive tone with people

And it's not about me, it's about the way you act towards everyone who disagrees with you. Stop with the abuse already, no one here deserves it.

[sandnsea]

44. No. They. Do. Not.

They show people supporting government guaranteeing insurance coverage, which is completely different than supporting single payer.

[Tarheel_Dem]

115. That lie gets repeated by single payer activists, ad nauseum. The

pity is that this lie has confused the debate to the point where people can't distinguish between single payer & the public option.

P.S.: If someone could produce a reputable poll that shows this overwhelming support for single payer, I'd glady concede that I was wrong all along. I have yet to see such a poll.

[dionysus]

100. you're evil dude

:evilgrin:

[firedupdem]

11. Good thing he's not breaking any promise there.

single payer would be great, but he never ran on that promise.

[Hissyspit]

14. But he could have.

[Cash_thatswhatiwant]

17. did you expect him to endorse single payer? he never came out in support of single payer (recently).

[Ken Burch]

24. He had nothing to lose by saying it was still an option.

n/t.

[Roland99]

19. Looks like the Obama fanbois and girls aren't fans of me.

Like I give a shit.

It's a matter of what is the RIGHT thing to do.

[Thrill]

29. You're bitching about something Obama never told you he was supporting

when he was President. Its not about Obama fans

[dionysus]

92. if you are going to diss obama supporters, i will remind you that dennis looks like the travelocity

gnome. so there :P

[stray cat]

25. What gave you the idea it was seriously being considered - it was never on the table

we will be lucky to pass a public option. I'm sure it will fare better under the GOP!

[GreenArrow]

40. well, the GOP is essentially

dictating the terms of this so called health care reform.

[Davis_X_Machina]

28. HR 676 had fewer co-sponsors in this Congress...

...than in the last Congress. And legislation, last I looked, had to pass Congress?

Where are the votes going to come from?

[Thrill]

30. Even Bernie said there are about 10 votes in the Senate for it

You can't get Single Payer unless you do Campaign Finance Reform first

[Davis_X_Machina]

33. Obama could do it....

....all by himself, he just has to want to, really, really bad, and it would happen.

The Green Lantern Theory of politics.

[Sebastian Doyle]

67. Unfortunately. Campaign Finance Reform will itself soon be an extinct species

When the Supreme Court decrees it so. Including Opie Roberts and Sammy the Fish Alito, whom most of the DLC traitors and Blue Balled Cowards in the Senate voted to confirm, by the way.

[jeanpalmer]

51. And the vote against the war

had few sponsors.

I guess we should just give up and surrender.

[Davis_X_Machina]

90. Make a list of three practical steps...

...that actually gets an HR 676 onto the floor with a chance of passage should be taken?

Which one logically has to get done first?

Go do it.

[EmilyAnne]

34. Nice that you are rolling your eyes at yourself. So I don't have to roll mine. nt

[mvd]

35. Was glad it got cheers

The President had to take note at least.

[depakid]

36. Almost any meaningful reform is now a moot point

[GreenArrow]

42. it was from the onset n/t

.

[jeanpalmer]

52. It really is moot

Start at $6700 a year healthcare cost per person, and plan to pay more. Thre's no radical vision or change here. It's more of the same.

[avaistheone1]

37. Not one dime to the deficit for health reform. How about not one dime for the deficit for

the MidEast wars?

[ncteechur]

38. Single payer was always a non-starter. Period.

[Yavin4]

39. Show Me The Votes for Single Payer

Have you ever taken a civics class in your life? If you have, then tell me how Obama can get the votes in the Congress for a single payer system. Those votes are not there.

[Cali_Democrat]

53. I would like to see the votes as well

Look how hard it is just to get a public option through Congress, I'm not sure how the OP thinks single payer has the votes.

:shrug:

[Roland99]

65. *cough*insurance lobby*cough*

[johnaries]

56. Exactly. Everytime it was proposed it died in committee. nt

[ProudDad]

62. They would be if the USAmerican people

actually knew shit about single-payer...

and about what the Civilized world has already done...

The votes would be there if the truth were allowed to be told.

But, as others have said, the business of the USAmerikan Empire is profit...no matter who it kills.

[dionysus]

96. i think some people actually think he can some how declare it so.

it's the only reason i can think of why they blame obama when it has only a tiny number of people supporting it in the congress.

[democrat2thecore]

45. A TRUE "Public Option" was the compromise. Tonight, he calls for PO but redefines it

He parses words with the best of them.

[jeanpalmer]

47. Looks like we're gonna start out

with $6700 a year healthcare, and go up from there, with a mandatory insurance plan. It's Romneycare. Just as I thought.

[prolesunited]

49. Where and when did he promise that?

It may be what you (and I) want, but that was never even put out there from his camp. It was never a point to begin with in his playbook.

[neverforget]

50. Funny how he starts out the speech saying we are the only democracy in the

world that doesn't cover everyone AND THEN throws single payer under the bus.

[slipslidingaway]

69. + 1000 n/t

[dionysus]

95. so, even though there is virtually nil support in congress, it's obama's fault, right?

there is no where near enough support for it, and obama doesn't have dictatorial powers to install it by fiat, so what do you want from him?

[johnaries]

54. Face it, it NEVER had a chance. And blaming it on Obama

is just childish.

[Tarheel_Dem]

63. I hope you get a chance to take a civics class before you die.

[Roland99]

64. I hope you get a chance to wipe that smugness off your face before you die

Geez...Obama fan club is awfully pissy up here tonight.

[Tarheel_Dem]

68. Dumb is as dumb does. Obviously you can't support this president

without being called a "fan", and on a democratic site no less. Perhaps you should start your own site where no support for this DEMOCRATIC president is allowed?

[polmaven]

103. I completely agree with you...

and, as you can probably see by my avatar, President Obama was not my FIRST choice.

As I watched the speech last night, though, I found myself thinking how proud I am that he is our president. His pragmatism is admirable. He is well aware of the need for change, but also aware that the change will not be an overnight occurrence. It takes TIME.

As much as i am happy that Congressman Kucinich is around, he will NEVER be the president, and if we don't want to see Mitt, or his ilk in the White House in 2012, we will stop whining that President Obama is not moving further to the left than he was during the campaign. The vast majority of American people are not there either.

I have, so far, been mostly happy with this administration. There have been a few disappointments, but many more agreements.

If people on a site called Democratic Underground can't be a "fan" of the Democratic president without being put down for it, then I think something is seriously wrong.

[Tarheel_Dem]

113. Thank you for your respectful response, and I completely agree with you.

The downside of the constant carping from the left is that it will only weaken this president to the point where the left won't get any of the things they're bitching about. My fear is that if healthcare fails, it will damage him for the next fight, which will surely be energy legislation.

[HughMoran]

78. Obama fan club my ass

You're just being a pissy jerk. You're the one who attacked someone (the President), don't get all bent out of shape when people call you on your silliness (nobody on the planet ever thought single payer had a snowball's chance in hell of passing.)

[Roland99]

79. Nobody on the planet, eh? Well, go on and enjoy having your for-profit healthcare

Go on and enjoy your insurance lobbyists controlling policy.

Hope you're happy...moran.

[stklurker]

89. they are right

No, they are right.. there is not support for single payer at this time. This will have to be incremental change.. You dont just climb Mt.Everest in a day, you have to work your way from base camp to base camp before you take the summit.. it takes weeks. Same principal applies here, you arent going to just get single payer, you are going to have work your way to it. Fight for the public option as base camp 1, go from there. The president is being smart, if you go "all in" right now, you dont have the cards and the other players at the table know it.

[dionysus]

98. well stated.

[HughMoran]

110. Yes, that's the logical answer

The O/P is being one of those "all or nothing" reactionaries. I'm not sure why people do this as it's annoying and non-productive.

Anyway, welcome to DU! :hi:

[stklurker]

111. thanks

Thanks... actually been here for years.. just dont post much

[dionysus]

97. you can do better than that, throw out a cult or messiah, hell start printing your kucinich 12 signs

:rofl:

[TheKentuckian]

72. It is hard to imagine anyone in history that could get single payer passed with what

there is to work with.

The right thing isn't always within in the realm of possibility. I've seen thousands of posts on this but still no indication of where even a base of votes to work off of come from. The votes would have to be manufactured in the House but it is within imagination, if not reality, but in the Senate we're lucky if double digit votes exist to start from.

This shit doesn't happen by magic. It is reasonable to lament that what is best for the country is out of reach and to figure out how to get there but it is way irrational to be upset with Obama or anyone else that might hold the office for not pulling single payer out of his ass. There is no advanced legwork on this policy at all and it is close to cracked out to think with any context of American politics whatsoever to think something of that scope to happen overnight. Conditioning the public and getting the votes is likely a 15-20 year haul without some massive and sudden meltdown.

It's kinda screwy to mad when the base and the POSSIBLES come to about 35. No one is going to go to the mat just to wrangle a possible win in the house and with lots of luck and armtwisting maybe a 1/3 of the Senate. Honestly, until the oldest generation fades out I don't think you can get a clear majority of voters solidly on board. The underestimation of residual "red scare", American Exceptionalism, and the weird vicarious greed that infects the country is a fatal miscalculation that leads to a lot of hurt feelings and disappointment on this issue.

[4lbs]

73. When this current health care passes, we'll have single-payer in about 12 to 15 years.

When Social Security first passed in 1935, only half the people in the country were eligible. It was pretty much limited to white males.

That was with a much more Progressive Congress than what President Obama has now.

It took about 12 years after that to fully cover everyone left out in the initial passage.

So, should FDR and Congress not even have passed it because it was initially limited and not as far-reaching?

Or was it better to get what was passable at the time and work steadily over a decade or so to get the missing pieces gradually added?

This is how health care reform will be done. Get what is passable now, and work over the next decade to gradually move it left until we achieve that single-payer, universal coverage.

[zulchzulu]

75. Just a reminder that Obama is not a monarch and that Single Payer will have to be incremental

Take a class on how legislation gets passed. It's messy. And it takes a lot of voices to make it work.

I'm for HR 676 too, but have known for years that Single Payer is not going to just happen eight months into the Obama administration after not really getting anywhere near this close for 60+ years.

Instead of whining, do something to help get your local representatives to pass the Public Option. That's what the grownups are doing.

:hi:

[alteredstate]

101. Zulch

You still rock!

[HughMoran]

76. Oh, shut up,

How stupid can you be?

[RBInMaine]

80. It can't pass. GET THE HELL BEHIND YOUR PRESIDENT !

[ShortnFiery]

83. I will when he supports a Robust Public Option. Before then: NO BILL! eom

[quaker bill]

81. Correction

it was always a moot point. Nothing about the speech changed this. Your perception of the facts has changed, the facts however remain the same.

[Mass]

82. When was it ever going to be an option?

I am more bothered by the continuous calls to bipartisanship. We need a bill, not an attempt to cuddle GOPers.

[ShortnFiery]

84. A bill that MANDATES insurance is not relief. Better to have NO BILL. eom

[joeycola]

86. He campaigned against the mandates. Now we have mandates. That is change

:yoiks:

[Mass]

87. Goody. I assume you have a good insurance, because these are generally those who do who think

we can wait.

I dislike mandates, but we will have mandates. The only questions is whether these mandates will only apply to private insurances, or if there will be a public plan. May be we should spend some time making sure there is a public plan, rather than stating ultimatum that will not happen.

[mmonk]

85. It's only dead if you give up the fight.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

88. It was always a moot point. (nt)

[dionysus]

91. oh noes!11!!11!!11!! did you forget that dennis isn't president, and obama didn't run on single

payer?

[MarjorieG]

93. For something not as widely discussed or supported no surprise. Best outcome is Kucinch's state

opportunity to build upon.

[Jennicut]

94. I just want some structure to cover the uninsured. Put the structure in there

and you can come back again and change it and expand it.
Medicare and social security were not what they are today when first passed.
Single payer would be great if there was public support and votes in Congress for it. But being a pragmatic realist, I get that there is not.

[lumberjack_jeff]

102. You know when the LSD wears off? and the sphinx turns out to just be your cat?

I hate that too.

Reality bites.

[Phx_Dem]

104. Go cry somewhere else.

Single payer was never even on the table, regardless how much the delusional like to claim it was.

[scheming daemons]

105. Translation: Even though Obama campaigned AGAINST single-payer.... I, Roland99, believed that...

...he was secretly for it.


Because I'm a doofus who disregarded what Obama told me since February of 2007, and wanted to believe he was lying for a year and a half before now.



He got elected running on a platform that did NOT have single-payer health insurance.


Pay attention in class next time.

[democrattotheend]

106. When was HR 676 ever not moot?

Sorry, but this bill never had any chance of going anywhere, before or after Obama's speech.

[ecstatic]

107. Write Congress. Until they change their minds,

there is nothing Obama can do (besides veto, which would mean that NO changes take effect). Sorry, I'll settle for some key changes over none.

[WI_DEM]

108. You never were going to get a single payer and Obama nor any other serious presidential candidate

including Hillary ever promised it. If we are having such a hard time with a public option do you think the votes are there for a single payer? If you think it's so easy to get the single payer system get elected to office and then you can magically get it passed.

[dr_b]

112. Ok, it's over then. Let's focus on what can be passed that will make a positive change.

[Roland99]

116. And, today, insurance company stocks rose healthily. yay for subsidizing them!

:eyes: