Fabulous speech but he still threw us under the bus. Especially women

[saracat]

and plaintiffs. He singled out abortion as not being paid for and will cooperate with torte reform. Perhaps they won't pay for male reproductive health and what premium will he set on a life lost to incompetence? And the offer to go down the "public path if insurance companies don't provide affordable options? Don't make me laugh.He kissed GOP butt while seemingly not too brilliant speech but meaningless.

But I give him and the speech writers credit. masterful speech and well delivered!

[stray cat]

1. I certainly don't feel thrown under a bus - abortion is legal and covered by many insurance plans

[avaistheone1]

14. Except for poor folks who will have the public opton/co-op/exchange.

Those women will have second class status.

[Irreverend IX]

23. Abortion is one of the cheaper medical procedures.

Sucks if you're poor and you have to spring a few hundred dollars for one, but the cost is chicken feed compared to open-heart surgery or chemotherapy. Those can take you from middle class to homeless. The most important thing is to get a public option passed, abortion can be added to its coverage later on.

[avaistheone1]

44. That depends on what type of procedure is used for the abortion, a woman's medical history, and

whether are not there are complications.

For the poor, things you and I may think are affordable or cheap simply are not.

[Irreverend IX]

68. I know raising $400 can look about as feasible as climbing Mt. Everest if you're working poor.

But still a lot easier than raising money for chemo. Some of those drugs run a thousand bucks a dose. You work with the political climate you have, not the one you want, and a public option minus abortion will still bring about a huge quality of life improvement for Americans. It's easier to add abortion coverage later than try to pass it with an already controversial bill.

[LynneSin]

83. Which is what Planned Parenthood is for

We don't need to fuck up our chances of passing healthcare reform over the Abortion debate. YOu and I both know that if Abortion were to be added it would tank the entire bill. Is that what you want? You'd rather fight for abortion and fuck the rest of the country over their right to affordable healthcare for all.

We have other battles to fight for abortion - mainly by keeping the bench balanced with judges and election politicians that won't illegalize the procedure. And supporting Planned Parenthood. And if we really want to win this battle then we need to push to make EC and RU-486 more readily available. We need to have affordable birth control available so we can lower the number of unwanted pregnancies and we need to educate our children so they know how to have safe sex.

Shame on you for putting this one small need ahead of the gigantic needs that everyone else has!

[saracat]

120. What about the many places where there is no Planned parenthood?

What about those many states where pharmacists are refusing to dispense birth control because it violates their "conscience", which Obama says he will uphold? How are poor women, whom the Public Option are the only ones likely to effect, to afford travel to those destinations?In my state they have passed extremely restrictive abortion laws, including demanding the woman have a 24 hour waiting period, so she not only has to "travel" but pay for accommodations as well.
The women who marched and campaigned for this right did not consider the lives of the women who died and the many more who will now die, or have their lives destroyed as the result of the lack of afford-ability of abortions as a "small thing".

And as for birth control, it is considered an abortafacient by many and is targeted to be eliminated, and in many cases already has been by abortion foes. And again, abortion also needs to be available for those women who encounter life threatening circumstances in "planned" pregnancies or conditions of rape or incest as well. If federal law will not cover those abortions, women are not receiving healthcare. This is not "healthcare for all". It is excluding a basic right for women.

[ProSense]

31. No, because the public option is funded by premiums. n/t

[karynnj]

52. Easy solution is non profits that could raise money to

pay for it for them. Possibly an expansion of organizations like Planned Parenthood. The problem with including it in the bill is that it will add to those against it.

[barbiegeek]

104. Why need abortion if BIRTH CONTROL IS COVERED

[dflprincess]

109. Because sometimes birth control fails even when its used correctly

and sometimes there is a medical reason for abortion.

[WinkyDink]

122. You don't get out much, do you?

[robo50]

20. Yeah, no one uninsured person who happens to be female will be covered

she will have to go out and pay for all her medical coverage on her own.

Oh wait, you want to hear about abortions on demand, and those few women who are uninsured and don't take the morning after pill and have to have an abortion paid for by all of us.

NO, Obama doesn't support that. So all poor pregnant women should line up at the Greyhound terminal and lay down under the bus.

(unless there are charities and relatives, and a man who is half responsible for the pregnancy who can pay the few hundred dollars for an abortion)...

Geeze.

WHAT ass posts on here all about pregnant women who have no health insurance, and throws the Obama out with the baby's bath water?

[WinkyDink]

121. So what is Obama's real point, then? Are abortions or are they not covered by the public plan?

Is Obama simply equivocating?

[sabbat hunter]

2. I have no problem

with abortions not being covered.....for now. Somethings need to be taken in baby steps. that is one of them.

We as a country are WAAAAAAAAAAY to litigious. I agree that tort reform is needed. If the doctor is truly incompetent, then yes they should pay, but we need to eliminate frivolous lawsuits that cost money and time.

[avaistheone1]

9. Medical litigation costs is a red herring. They only come out to 1% of medical costs.

[karynnj]

56. True - but the idea of having a process that fairly weeds out

cases where the doctor competently followed accepted practices would be a good idea for many reasons. The first being that these cases are unfair to good doctors. In addition, 1% of a large amount is not negligible.

[kath]

60. Ding, ding, ding. A TOTAL red herring.

[LooseWilly]

39. In this country litigation is the only viable regulation. Especially in the wake of W.

If you want to reduce litigation, I suggest giving some real authority and funding to regulators... and I would be willing to bet that the incidences of litigation would diminish.

[sabbat hunter]

99. we have been

litigious well before W took office.

[PVnRT]

72. Please define "frivolous lawsuit"

Especially since that's a favorite term of the right-wing anti-tort crowd.

You do realize most of those "frivolous lawsuits" get tossed out at pre-trial hearings, right?

[WinkyDink]

124. "Frivolous lawsuits" usually do not make it to the jury stage. And the phrase itself is a Right-wing

one.

The infamous and commonly-used-as-an-example "McDonald's" case? Woman had THIRD-DEGREE BURNS. Not a laughing, "frivolous" matter.
http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm

[alcibiades_mystery]

3. He said federal tax dollars won't pay for abortions

Since the public plan is paid for by premiums, you would still be able to get an abortion through the public plan.

[Teaser]

10. stop asking people to think

it isn't fair.

[BlooInBloo]

26. Yep. This *is* America, after all.

[high density]

19. OMG, that makes way too much sense!

It's much easier to just kill all reform for abortion though. Let's just go on with the status quo on health insurance and care, because ABORTION ABORTION ABORTION!!!

[OwnedByFerrets]

82. So, the asshole repugs are NOT lying when they insist

that the presidents plan WILL pay for abortions?? I'm confused.

[alcibiades_mystery]

95. The question is whether tax dollars will fund them

Not whether they will be covered by a public plan.

[sandnsea]

4. Abortion will remain exactly as it is now. n/t

[babylonsister]

5. What a surprise to see you here criticizing the President. Not. nt

[dionysus]

78. the backhanded compliment at the end is supposed to ibalance it out...

;)

[paulk]

90. why don't you address the argument?

instead of the usual empty post?

do you have anything to actually say?

[Aramchek]

108. she has no argument. this is an empty OP

[paulk]

114. wow, that's deep

are your other 208 posts this insightful?

[tbyg52]

126. Not that I have noticed. nt

[geek tragedy]

110. Pretty Understandably Miserably Angry.

This one bashed Obama over this birth certificate.

[bigwillq]

6. Tone and delievery was excellent.

Content was fair. Still in love with Big Pharma.

[jefferson_dem]

7. Hey! Welcome back!

:hi:

[Political Tiger]

8. BULL! n/t

[4lbs]

11. Get Congress to repeal the Hyde Amendment and we can have federal tax dollars pay for abortion.

Until then, he pretty much can't have a healthcare plan do that now can he?

[Thrill]

12. No he didn't. He was trying to correct the things who have people against HCR

The thought that it will cover abortion has many people upset. Especially Independents

[saracat]

28. And guess what? I don't care about how "upset" they are!

[karynnj]

58. Do you care if it passes?

Or are you still waiting for the future President Edwards to pass the perfect plan?

[saracat]

61. Actually , if it ends up without a Public option, I don't care because it

won't matter.I will have to wait and see what the Bill has in it. i would have preferred the public option to be non negotiable.

[karynnj]

76. That means you prefer the status quo, where:

1) People with pre-existing conditions (like Edwards' breast cancer) are denied coverage or dropped.
2) Where rates for women are higher than men
3) without the new subsidies that would have expanded the amount the government spends more than anything since the 1960s
4) Where individuals and small businesses are raised with premiums as much as 3 times higher than those paid by big companies

All things that a large majority favor and which will definitely be in the bill. In addition, Obama may a good case for the public option. The bill would be better with it, but that will depend on there being enough people in Congress supporting it. "Non negotiable means that would throw all these good changes that are there for the having out for something that may not be possible. That is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Remember "Non-negotiable" does NOT mean that we get something, it means that we prefer getting nothing if we can't have it.

[saracat]

96. Really? And exactly how would we enforce the things you mention without a Public Option?

The insurance companies are already expected to self regulate by law and one sees what a fat lot of good that does.Without a Public Option, and one that includes everyone, there is no competition to force the private companies into doing any of the things you mention.
The remaining bare bones of the reform will only penalize poor and lower income folks with fines and not be able to guarantee anything in return.

A HCR Reform Bill absent the Public Option is just bad legislation and will leave people worse off than before.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

107. The non-negotiable crowd is pretty casual

about flushing the things the rest of us want down the toilet. That's what pisses me off the most about the purity patrol/pumas/freeper trolls. Yeah, you're all one group now. If you all argue on the same side then you are all allies.

[msallied]

65. That's your fucking problem.

And probably why it's a good thing you're not a member of Congress.

[firedupdem]

13. LOL!

How ridiculous...but I guess you needed to find something. :eyes:

[Number23]

27. Be nice, firedup. This is ol' Sara's first post in MONTHS

She's just a bit rusty. Give her a few more weeks and she'll be back to her "Obama is a sexist pig!" finest.

[firedupdem]

29. I'm sure you're right.....some things never change. n/t

[saracat]

130. Actually, its not. I even had a couple of posts on the greatest page recently

but then i don't expect some to notice just like they don't notice many things. Whatever.

[polichick]

15. Yeah, that abortion bit is ridiculous - why should we pay for smokers...

...or fat people or drunks ~ or anything else we don't approve of??

I guess only Republican fanatics count when it comes to this issue.

[graywarrior]

16. I don't feel slighted in the least.

[FrenchieCat]

17. That's it!

Let fight to have Abortion included in the Public Option that we don't yet have.

What a fabulous Brain Fart! :headbang:


Your post separates you from the rational ones.
The Hyde amendment passed into law quite a ways back,
but I guess you didn't know that.

[grantcart]

30. How do you like being under the bus FrenchieCat?

[FrenchieCat]

37. Cozy, I guess.

Guess there's always planned parenthood, hey?

[NYC_SKP]

18. Oh Fucking Bullshit, Saracat. Abortion was never ever going to fly, so your outrage is pointless.

There isn't a human being alive or dead who could have gotten federally funded abortion to pass with this congress.

And "Under the Bus" is soooo, like, 2007.

Grow up.

And it's "TORT REFORM" not "TORTE REFORM"

FFS, I read "Torte Reform" on Free Republic yesterday.

Here, have a donut.

:donut:

[depakid]

49. Just a sycophanrt

Enjoy your simon says,

[Peacetrain]

21. He did NOT throw us under the bus...

[Hutzpa]

22. I like to get attention

myself, but... but... for the right reasons.

:P

[DevonRex]

24. More BS from Saracat. What a surprise. Not. nt

[Mad_Dem_X]

25. I was very disappointed by the abortion thing

Other than that, I thought it was a fantastic speech.

[RoadRage]

32. It's much better to stand behind an issue that will prevent the entire bill passed?

How utterly short sighted, and pointless.

It's legal. The government isn't going to pay for it. They also don't plan on paying for condems, viagra or the pill either.

As far as i'm concerned - GOOD. It should be legal.. but it shouldn't be on the taxpayers bill. I'd be fine to see an exception if it's a medically neccessary proceedure to save the life of the mother.

Flame away - I really don't give a shit.

[Abe66]

33. "I give him and the speech writers credit"....does DU often mutate in to Freepersville?

[BeyondGeography]

34. Absurd

[ProSense]

35. You're clueless. Don't talk about stuff you don't know anything about. n/t

[Honeycombe8]

36. Giving up abortion sounds okay to me. (I'm a woman) How many women

, after all, do you think need insurance to pay for an abortion and/or would turn in a claim for it, anyway? (Assuming it's abortion by choice, and not medically necessary.) AND would be part of the maybe 5% of the population that opts into the public plan? Probably not many at all.

I figure it's a small thing to give up, to get Blue Dog support. (forget Repubs...they are NEVER going to vote for ANY bill by the Democrats!)

[saracat]

62. "A small thing to give up" ? Wow.perhaps all female reproductive care can be given up as well.

Perhaps hysterectomies? And remember the abortion foes are also against birth control. What else do you want to give up? What about medical parity for tyhe genders? What about anything that can remotely be considered behavior based? Or is that not only directed at women? Opps.I forgot.This is a taboo topic and any reference to it is considered overreacting or delusional.

Why is it that anything to do with women's health is so easily disposable?

[msallied]

63. Hyperbole Alert!!

[saracat]

69. Yeah. All women's reproductive issues are viewed as hyperbole and nonsense by many on this board

and any who notice disregard of those issues are labeled"hysteric'. Gotcha.Not a fashionable issue anymore. Odd.Seems not long ago people were glad reproductive rights were again extended to foreign recipients of federal aid. I guess American women are different.But I understand.I shouldn't mention this as it isn't an important issue.

[msallied]

93. No, I just view your posts as hysterical.

If you want to rationally discuss an issue, I'm game, but you clearly didn't come here to do that with all of your "under the bus" bullshit talk.

[WinkyDink]

125. Is this a parody post?

[geek tragedy]

134. No. Some PUMAs still haven't gotten it. nt

[debbierlus]

38. Thrown under the bus - women up front. Pretty speeches are meaningless.

Especially when they are espousing shit.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[geek tragedy]

111. You bashed him over the inaugural. So, we know your

motivation.

[geek tragedy]

113. Here is a prime example of someone espousing shit:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8087394

Lack. of. credibility.

[Douglas Carpenter]

40. well President Obama does have to get a bill actually passed

As far as a good bill. Personally, I don't think single-payer goes far enough - I would strongly favor establishing a national healthcare service that has decentralized controls and is completely publicly funded. I would very much like to see a program that covers all healthcare services for everyone- including abortion services.

The problem is, such a plan has absolutely no chance whatsoever of passing - none - not a snowballs chance in hell

Unfortunately, any bill - even this far less than adequate bill that President Obama is proposing - that includes abortion services has absolutely no chance of passing whatsoever - none - not a snowballs chance in hell.

So is pursuing a far less than adequate bill that is still an enormous improvement over the status quo still better than pursuing a bill that is absolutely guaranteed a sound defeat really, "throwing us under the bus"? I really don't think so. It is pursuing a huge improvement that might actually pass over "the best of all possible worlds" that is absolutely guaranteed a sound defeat.

[zulchzulu]

41. Watch the speech again. He didn't throw women or "us" under the bus...

It's our turn to help him get the Public Option passed. He stated that he wants it and he needs us to help him get it in the final bill and passed.

Torte reform will be tangled with, but you can bet that it won't be a free ride for incompetent doctors to get protection from malpractice.

As for abortion, it is already covered by health insurance outside of the still intact Hyde amendment, which bans Medicaid from covering abortions except in the case of rape or incest. There is a loophole where states can make sure Medicare coverage is still available for for nearly all medical procedures needed. Should the Hyde Amendment be tossed too? Yes, but there are enough Democratic votes that are are so-called pro-life that would not vote for the legislation.

It's not perfect. It's incremental. We have the Congress and Senate to work on to get a decent bill.

[CTLawGuy]

73. clearly

our job is only to sit on our asses and do nothing but whine about how he is not working fast enough and convince ourselves that he really DOESN'T support the public option.

[saltpoint]

42. It just wouldn't be a post-Obama speech night without

the negative caterwauling from this OP.

[Aramchek]

43. carry a grudge much?

[depakid]

45. He threw health care advocates of all stripes under the bus

preferring instead to pander to the very sorts who hate him on a visceral level.

Those of us who worked so very hard- both for his campaign- and for various (and sometimes specific) health care reforms aren't likely to forget this speech. We really didn't deserve the admonishments, the scolding and the finger wagging.

Hey Barack: next time you need committed folks behind you- go ask some Republicans. After all- that's who you like to hold up for your praise and applause.

Oh, and btw: your junk insurance proposal (the Enzi Bill without the federal preemption? that was insulting to people wjo know a little bit about health economics and policy).

[msallied]

64. You worked for his campaign? I never would have guessed...

[TwilightGardener]

46. You're still here? That's a shame.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[karynnj]

51. Male reproductive health is equivilent to female reproductive health, which is covered,

not to abortion. The point is that adding payment for abortion, currently not allowed by the Hyde amendment, would lose needed votes. It is easy to claim you will do everything when you are not President. Now, there is a real window to pass something that will make a real difference - like eliminating preexisting conditions, ending discrimination against women (a Kerry provision included in the Finance committee bill and accepted by the insurance industry), adding new subsidies making it the biggest expansion since the 1960s and giving small businesses and individuals the ability to join big plans.

[asdjrocky]

53. Elizabeth Edwards seemed to like the plan, and the speech.

Saw her on KO. And doesn't the Hyde Act (I think that's it, I could be wrong) prevent federal funds for being used for abortions all ready?

[alteredstate]

98. Yep

Elizabeth loved the speech.

[ShortnFiery]

54. You won't get many people to agree with you here, but I concur.

Damn! The progressive caucus "ate it up" hook, line and sinker.

Lambs to the slaughter - GUT the middle class without a ROBUST Public Option. :(

[kath]

55. They won't pay for abortion. But I'll bet you a brazillion dollars they'll still pay for Viagra...

and penile implants, etc.

[saltpoint]

59. In any case pregnancy is not the same as libido.

Check with any 6th grader for further details.

[ampad]

57. Still pissed about Hillary, huh?

Have you heard that Hillary has moved on? Maybe it is time to follow her lead.

[cornermouse]

66. Hi Saracat.

As usual you're right. If you refuse to cover abortion for those who can't afford another child or an abortion, you have effectively negated their rights.

I haven't seen anyone consider the fact that even if you can somehow afford to pay for mandatory health insurance coverage that no one appears to have considered the obstacle that making the co-pay will become for those who have trouble making the health insurance coverage with or without government help. Obama has made a point of saying that what "public option" that might be left will be extremely small tells me that a lot of people are going to be told "tough luck".

[FrenchieCat]

67. Since made legal, Women have gotten abortion fine up to this point.......

so please, stop with the drama!

[saracat]

70. Really? And pharmacists have to fill prescriptions? And what was that about abiding by those "Laws o

conscience"? Oh ,right. Lets reiterate that Doctors and pharmacists can deny birth control and other prophylactics if they don't agree with either my doctor or myself that I should have it.

And I can never attempt to match the "Drama" of soome who continue to blame the media for anything that the Admin does wrong. BTW, the media must be good again cause they were wowed this time!

And one really shouldn't speak about this availibility of abortions as though it were factual. More and more states, my own included are making it impossible tom obtain them . of course if you are rich you can afford to travel to other states, which is what the GOP advises one to do.

And to think I though this HealthCare bill would benefit "poor " women.

[FrenchieCat]

71. I live in California......

where one can drive to a planned parenhood center, and they will hook you up.

Where do you live, where you can't get an abortion?

In addition, I am not even close to being rich; I'm struggling middle class...FYI.

And yeah....the media is much to blame. If you took off your Obama hating glasses,
you'd see that.

You think a bunch of cranks yelling at a town hall deserved a month's worth of coverage?
I thought you would. :eyes:

[saracat]

123. And it all about you? I happen to live in a city that has a Planned Parenthood but many

of the rural areas in my state do not have them. In addition the legislature has passed many restrictive anti abortion laws including a 24 hour waiting period. if a poor women, who is the one mostly effected byt any form of Public Option, can't afford to travel, or pay for accomadations, she is just screwed.

And no the Town Hall cranks didn't deserve that covedrage but neither did Michael Jackson,Anna Nicole, or Michelle's shorts.

My point was, it is the WH job to "use the press as a bully pulpit and to know how to manipulate the press.This Admin is hit and miss. The best thiong so far was the joint speech.I may not have liked all the content but it was well done.

[Freddie Stubbs]

74. Why is abortion a private matter until you want other people to pay for it?

:shrug:

[joeycola]

75. our health care-is private including women's reproductive procedures.

[dionysus]

77. nice backhanded compliment. it's good to know your bitterness towards the guy you didn't vote for is

alive and well.
:hi:

[saltpoint]

79. The OP routinely crafts these to caterwaul against Barack Obama.

A female candidate she supported for the nomination didn't win and this OP is still smarting from the loss.

[dionysus]

81. i haven't seen her screeds around here for a while. and no it wasn't hillary, it was smoove johnny.

:hi:

[saltpoint]

84. The OP and I both supported John Edwards, on my part at least because

his pro-labor position was the sturdiest I'd seen in a Democratic candidate for the White House in some decades.

When Edwards withdrew after the third-place finish in New Hampshire, the OP strongly preferred the female candidate and resented anyone who did not agree with her generally and became hostile toward anyone supporting the guy from Illinois especially, an attitude and grudge she holds to this hour.

[dionysus]

88. thanks for the clarification.

:hi:

[saltpoint]

89. -- --

:hi: I think Obama sealed the deal in Philadelphia after the several-weeks of dust-up and dirt flung at him over Rev. Wright.

Evidently some of his own aides were suggesting that he not address race as a topic, at least not in such focused form and format.

But that speech was splendid, and necessary.

The same man, IMO, was talking to the nation last night. I hope a lot of people listened.

[saracat]

97. Nonsense. I voted for him in the general and that is all that counts!

What matters is holding his feet to the fire.He asked for that and I am obliging.

[saltpoint]

105. You're far to eager and using many fewer facts for that mission.

And one or two of us have picked up on the trend.

[geek tragedy]

112. That's not what you said at CHF. nt

[saracat]

117. I expressed my primary opinion. I never said I did not vote for him in the

General. But many here still insist that there is no difference in primary or general support.

[geek tragedy]

132. You were a Birther back in 2008:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6061757&mesg_id=6065823

The lack of experience , the stupid comments yesterday about Iran

the 57 states remark, the Selma remark, his lack of transperancy regarding his birth certificate and other issues, his corrupt associates, his attempting to straddle the fence and claiming to be a "unifier" and the complete arrogance of his attitude.I could go one and on and on but there is too much there. But you will never see it.Whatever.

You have also pushed rightwing smears not only of Barack Obama:

http://oldelmtree.com/discussion/index.php/topic,937.0.html

http://oldelmtree.com/discussion/index.php/topic,1940.0.html

http://oldelmtree.com/discussion/index.php/topic,2564.msg28466.html#msg28466

Then there is your hatred of Michelle Obama:

http://oldelmtree.com/discussion/index.php/topic,2662.0.html

http://oldelmtree.com/discussion/index.php/topic,3353.0.html

So, please don't come here and pretend that you've ever been anything but someone who hates Obama as much as a typical Teabagger.

[LynneSin]

80. As a woman I have no issues with that

He is not making abortion illegal and I could still get an affordable abortion thru my local Planned Parenthood. But I am not so selfish that I would have a hissy fit over this and lose the chance to get healthcare reformed.

[TheKentuckian]

85. I'm pretty sure there are some "supposedly" on our side that don't want a bill that can pass

WHY...WHY...WHY would it be in any way good tactics to fight an abortion battle in the middle of this? Federal dollars for abortions ARE ILLEGAL. That law must be fought separately from this health reform. Why are you folks so fucking desperate to find a way to self destruct? If you have a shadow of reason, you'd know full well that trying to fight this battle right now would melt down the whole deal and probably the administration as well.

Slaves didn't stay in servitude waiting for the voting rights bill. The reality is one can only afford to be utterly unbending if you have the unlimited individual power. Otherwise, you're going to have to accept reality and pick your battles. I'll gladly support repealing the Hyde amendment but to even try to take it on as a part of health care reform is ill-conceived and as illogical a strategy as I can imagine. The battle is worth fighting but not at the expense of not accomplishing anything over the next decade or so at best and possibly undoing any traction we've got in the past few years.

[ecstatic]

86. Welcome back

:eyes:

[hileeopnyn8d]

87. You are only

under the bus because you crawled under there looking for something wrong even after 17 different mechanics told you there was nothing wrong.

[LynneSin]

92. OMG DOUBLE WHAMMY ZINGER YEAH!!!!

:woohoo:

[DevonRex]

94. +1. Ha ha. That was really good.

[Spazito]

119. Ouch! Perfect response

:thumbsup:

[quiller4]

91. I 'm a 58 yr old woman and I don't feel thrown under the bus at all. n/t

[WyldRogue]

100. My wife says...

...even tho Obama had her pissed off for awhile, she has to adamantly disagree with your assertion.

She wasn't thrown under the bus sweety, Obama saved her a seat for the trip to the affordable healthcare fight down the road.

I knew Obama would start bringing her back into the fold.

[burning rain]

101. Unfortunately, I don't see how there was ever a chance for abortion funding.

The Hyde Amendment has passed every year since it was first offered in 1976, with Democratic and Republican presidents and congressional majorities alike--and this is the same principle--federal funding. Even a good number of pro-choice congressistas feel the need to oppose federal funding of abortions so as to hold their seats. For an account of the passage of the Hyde Amendment and the collapse of the effort to pass FOCA in 1993--even after the 1992 "Year of the Woman" election, and with Bill Clinton in the White House, see A Woman's Place by Marjorie Magolies-Mezvinsky (Pennsylvania congresswoman, 1993-95).

[Blue_In_AK]

102. Spelling police here.

It's TORT reform (lawsuits having to do with injuries), not "torte," which is a kind of dessert. Carry on.

[saltpoint]

115. Although now that you mention it, Blue_In_AK, I actually do want torte

reform, and it by god better mean a LOT more chocolate ice cream.

I want tortes with chocolate ice cream and lots of it.

[Blue_In_AK]

116. You are a funny man, OC.

:)

[barbiegeek]

103. Why need abortion if BIRTH CONTROL IS COVERED

Abortions will go down if woman have access to birth control pills or IUD or whatever we are using now.

[saracat]

118. Why need abortion? That is the silliest comment yet. Do you not

realize that Birth Control is considered an antibortafacient and under that catagory may NOT be covered? Do you not realize that not only is Birth contril not 100% effective but does nothing in the advent of ectopic pregnancies or other life threatening circumstances that can occurr in planned pregnancies? And even birth defects that that cause impossibilities of birth necessitating abortions.And don't forget cases of rape or incest.Yeah, I suppose you couldd just go to Planned parenthood, in those areas that have them. If not, you had better have funds to travel. But abortions and reproductive health have always been available for the wealthy women. Only poor women will be totally screwed by this.After all, isn't it only the poor who will be eleigable for any sort of public Option anyway?

[alteredstate]

106. I haven't spent time at DU for while.

Some things never change. :eyes:

[David Zephyr]

127. Kick.

Too late to recommend. But I'm kicking it up.

All the talk here about our "victory" baffles me. What did we win? What is the definition of "victory".

Great post.

[Cha]

131. No victory ever for you..

you lose and will continue to do so..I really feel so sorry for you..and your deadenders.

[geek tragedy]

133. Never thought you'd be a PUMA. nt

[Beacool]

128. Hi, Saracat!!

Nice seeing you around.

:hi:

[jesus_of_suburbia]

129. Abortion definitely needs to be covered.

Not that I'd ever have to worry about it, but I do understand the concept of empathy.


:hug: to all the ladies on DU. I stand with you.